Canadian banks: "stop payment" is actually not a stop payment !?

[cflnhl]

Had a disturbing event yesterday.

Did you know Canadian banks let companies override "stop-payment" orders?

On advice from a financial advisor I put in a stop-payment order at the TD Trust, got charged $25 for it. Checked my bank statement a few weeks later and found the charge was still coming off.

"They (companies) can do that" said the bank. And being a Canadian bank it blamed the customer. "You should have told them you wanted to stop the payment"

"Then why am I paying you $25 if I have to be the one to actually get the payment stopped ?" All the bank would do was refund half of $25!

I closed my account. It's the only way to guarantee a stop-payment. And it's free.

Someone may bring up the fine point that "stop payment" is different from "revoke authorization", but no payments were ever stopped.

Further more the bank teller and bank manager said, "We see this all the time. They (the companies) just have to change one thing at their end to do this".

Now, this made me think: is it a SQL injection into the bank's database? As you know this is long-standing weakness of databases that must be accounted for - that is, it can be prevented - by the database developer. And why has no one addressed this matter before?

 

[westwoody]

TD is a lousy bank in my experience. They cut corners by having the youngest, least experienced cheapest staff possible. Lots of times they have one teller. You have to make an appointment for even the simplest of things because nobody can help. Got a question about a mortgage? Come back in three weeks!
I used to be on first name basis with the branch manager but now nobody cares, they act like customers are an annoyance.

Sorry for the rant, I just left and it was unusually bad. Moving to another right now. Credit unions are really the way to go. The big banks are all exactly the same, charge for everything, bad service, treat employees like shit, and give bad financial advice.

 

[Bridge]

TD is a lousy bank in my experience. They cut corners by having the youngest, least experienced cheapest staff possible. Lots of times they have one teller. You have to make an appointment for even the simplest of things because nobody can help. Got a question about a mortgage? Come back in three weeks!
I used to be on first name basis with the branch manager but now nobody cares, they act like customers are an annoyance.

Sorry for the rant, I just left and it was unusually bad. Moving to another right now. Credit unions are really the way to go. The big banks are all exactly the same, charge for everything, bad service, treat employees like shit, and give bad financial advice.

I have to agree about the big banks. I find BMO just the same. The branches are never open when I'd like them to be.

 

[happymoments]

Yeah I miss Canada Trust.. not TD Canada Trust LOL....

 

[vanperb]

Now, this made me think: is it a SQL injection into the bank's database? As you know this is long-standing weakness of databases that must be accounted for - that is, it can be prevented - by the database developer. And why has no one addressed this matter before?

Because as a business they made 12 bucks off you, and 98% of people keep their accounts there if placed in the exact same situation.
The math works out in favour of not doing anything. It's not a weakness. It's a business feature.

Good luck finding a bank who will actually do what you ask with stop payments.

 

[masterpoonhunter]

The only good about Canadian Big Banks is bank stocks.
I have a range of them in my portfolio, all have been doing at least 4% a year, and dividends up to 4% as well.
Other than that, the service is pathetic.
We moved our corporate banking over the years, from RBC to BOM to CIBC and finally in a FUCK YOU ALL move, to Desjardins. At least with Desjardins the people we deal with include a lot of Quebec Milfy types.

 

[vanperb]

We moved our corporate banking over the years, from RBC to BOM to CIBC and finally in a FUCK YOU ALL move, to Desjardins. At least with Desjardins the people we deal with include a lot of Quebec Milfy types.

Pretty much expected results of the move. I'm not sure where the OP moved to but I don't think he's going to get a bump in service or reliability.

 

[cflnhl]

Pretty much expected results of the move. I'm not sure where the OP moved to but I don't think he's going to get a bump in service or reliability.

I went with a nearby branch of Scotiabank. Just comparing branches, (TD to Scotia) , it has been quite an improvement. The manager at Scotia treated me very well. And it's a new building.

The TD near me is understaffed, has long line-ups and the tellers are poorly-trained/not very knowledgeable. On average that branch has an older clientele that will never go for online banking; the TD has not adjusted to this reality with increased staffing. I only had an account there for 9 weeks before throwing in the towel.

I filled out the follow-up exit survey - blasted them - then got a follow-up phone call from the branch manager. He was professional enough, but as I expected the call went no where, he has no influence on corporate policy.

He did say "we don't guarantee stop payments". If the bank - or anyone else - cannot provide a commercial service with some kind of warranty, they shouldn't be selling it at all.

It's been said "we need banking but we don't need banks". Must have been a Canadian crypto trader.

 

[vanperb]

I went with a nearby branch of Scotiabank. Just comparing branches, (TD to Scotia) , it has been quite an improvement. The manager at Scotia treated me very well. And it's a new building.

I hope the admins allow a necro post, so you can keep us abreast of the situation if you needed to ever do a "stop" at Scotia.

 

[emacky]

I use to work as a teller in my younger days I absolutely hated setting up stop payments. It only works if it's the exact amount, business name and date. If any of them is wrong the stop payment will not work.

In terms of service and quality of service, you can thank the board and shareholders who only crave profits. Since I left there's been wave after wave of layoffs, several cuts to company pensions forcing people to retire early, change in technology where almost any idiot can click a few buttons and do you mortgage paperwork, a massive push for online banking and self service and outsourcing call centers to India.

Back in the early 2000s, they started taking employee productivity to measure customer volume and over time, they used that to limit the need for staffing. Most branch now might only have a max of 9 employees where mostly employees where essentially everyone has a hybrid role. The guy who might do your paperwork for your mortgage, might actually have to be on cash afterwards meaning he didn't actually have the time it focus to make sure you're treated properly.

Back when I started in the 2000s the starting wage was $15/hr. The same teller now is still making that much. It's essentially only attracts mothers who want to work pt, people grinding out till pension or kids with business degrees who didn't go into accounting.

Several years before Covid all the banks pushed for 7 days a week service, but those extra days were mostly unprofitable and a waste of employees time. Imagine have a 50k weekly sales target and wasting a day achieving nothing and being grilled daily by all levels of management of why you're not hitting their targets. I hated working Sundays since I had better shit to do. Essentially, banks are useless. I'd recommend trying to do all your auto payments through your credit cards as MasterCard and Visa has a much better system compared to the banks.

Anyone who provided quality service left or retired long ago.

 

[ploplayer228]

I once wrote a series of post dated cheques (12 of them) for $200 each.
The person I gave to ended up depositing all 12 cheques at an ATM and all of them got cleared out of my account at once. (Even tho post-dated)
The bank said there's nothing they can do since it all cashed 🙄

 

[vanperb]

Several years before Covid all the banks pushed for 7 days a week service, but those extra days were mostly unprofitable and a waste of employees time. Imagine have a 50k weekly sales target and wasting a day achieving nothing and being grilled daily by all levels of management of why you're not hitting their targets. I hated working Sundays since I had better shit to do. Essentially, banks are useless. I'd recommend trying to do all your auto payments through your credit cards as MasterCard and Visa has a much better system compared to the banks.

Sales quotas for banks are evil. Cruel for tellers.

 

[westwoody]

I started in the 2000s the starting wage was $15/hr. The same teller now is still making that much

We hired a lady who was working in a big bank hq handling their bullion ie gold bars, silver bars, coins. Some big bars are very heavy and she’s a tiny lady, all by herself because they can’t afford an extra person to help her.
Funny that she’s handling all this stuff worth millions for about a dollar over minimum.

 

[emacky]

Sales quotas for banks are evil. Cruel for tellers.

Sales quotas are shit! Imagine forcing someone into a GIC because you have a target to hit or "encouraging" someone on welfare who came to cash their cheque to sign up for a credit card when they have no education of how money works.

 

[niceon77]

I get really frustrated by all the tricks and double-standards that banks have. I had an extra credit card which I set to disabled / not allow payments. Apparently it doesn't apply to merchants who have billed you in the past, as I found out after having a credit card on hold for almost 4 years, a company I had used in the past started randomly billing me again for a recurring subscription. Also, I've found that I could only chargeback a fraud charge on my credit card for the past 90 days when I was a victim of fraud. But as a business owner I had a customer charge my company back for a full year of charges. Different rules for everyone!

Another dumb one is if you try to stop payment on a cheque even hours after writing it, you can't if the fraudster uses a payday load type of place and takes cash directly. It shouldn't be up to the cheque writer to know what bank someone might deposit/cash cheque at. There should be consistent rules that always apply the same to everyone. And even getting a certified cheque verified by the actual issuing bank to make sure it's legitimate doesn't protect you from fraud: (https://globalnews.ca/news/9162525/...y-despite-bank-check-authenticity-bank-draft/). Seems the only ones who's money is safe are the criminals...