Most of the deaths were apparently due to tuberculosis, but in case anybody thinks this is strictly a native issue, the catholic church in Ireland did the same thing to Irish people at the same time. Children were taken from, or given up by parents due to poverty, to be raised by the church. Horrific abuse of children in schools run by the CC, sometimes for profit with what amounted to slave labour. The deaths of children were also hidden and bodies were buried anonymously. So it seems the Catholic Church just developed this mastery of ways to abuse any people without power of control.
Truly heart breaking
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Who were the real savages?
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First of all, wait until the Coroner has done the autopsies on the children. Find out why they died, before pointing any fingers.
Take things with a grain of salt.
Yes the Catholic run Residential Schools were bad (Were they all run the same??). Still today social welfare takes aboringnal kids away from their homes and those kids sometime turn up just as fucked as the residential school kids. Social welfare takes white kids away and those kids sometimes turn out just as fucked. Add in drugs and alcohol. Especially kids who grew up in homes run by those same drugs and alcohol. Disaster waiting to happen.
Up to the early 70s the strap or corporal punishment was still allowed for unruly children in class. For most families disapline meant corporal punishment up till the 80s. Add in stress from the job, money problems and the belt became the norm, rather than the option. Add in alcohol and the situation usually went out of control. An Adult vs Child in strength and size. The Adult would win.
How did people back in the 1890s deal with shit children (white or aboringnal), most likely corporal punishment.
Go back to the oringnal idea behind the Residential Schools. What was it? Today it is to "take away the Aboringnal Culture". Back then it could of been the taking of hostages and have them grow in in British Culture (similar to the Roman hostages for tribes within their boundaries, taking the Leaders son in order to apply the tribes good conduct). The reality was they children of the Residentials Schools got to the see the darker side of mankind, mostly I think because of how isolatied the Schools were. The thing is People in charge knew and covered it up, because of how bad it would make the institution look (Catholic Church).
Today the same situation occurs within our governmental departments. The Department of National Defence is going through the sexual scandal of senior officers accused of misconduct/sexual abuse of subordinates. But I know for the last 40 years the DND had policies on sexual abuse and line of command for relationships. The problem was that their Leadership failed( Bad Leadership). Keeping it hidden so the institution did not get the blame and years later all that shit, that was hidden comes out; it really makes the instituion look bad.
Whatever the oringnal idea behind Residential Schools, it got twisted out of the norm. Things were easier to hide (if you are going to hide things, you probally know its wrong on a moral level), due to lack of what we have today (internet, news, social media) and things that were easier hidden back then are harder to hide today. Also today we have a higher social conscious on how to raise children, then 100 years ago. Then kids were seen and not heard. Today its different.
But take things with a grain of salt until all the facts are known. Don't jump to conclusions.
Take things with a grain of salt.
Yes the Catholic run Residential Schools were bad (Were they all run the same??). Still today social welfare takes aboringnal kids away from their homes and those kids sometime turn up just as fucked as the residential school kids. Social welfare takes white kids away and those kids sometimes turn out just as fucked. Add in drugs and alcohol. Especially kids who grew up in homes run by those same drugs and alcohol. Disaster waiting to happen.
Up to the early 70s the strap or corporal punishment was still allowed for unruly children in class. For most families disapline meant corporal punishment up till the 80s. Add in stress from the job, money problems and the belt became the norm, rather than the option. Add in alcohol and the situation usually went out of control. An Adult vs Child in strength and size. The Adult would win.
How did people back in the 1890s deal with shit children (white or aboringnal), most likely corporal punishment.
Go back to the oringnal idea behind the Residential Schools. What was it? Today it is to "take away the Aboringnal Culture". Back then it could of been the taking of hostages and have them grow in in British Culture (similar to the Roman hostages for tribes within their boundaries, taking the Leaders son in order to apply the tribes good conduct). The reality was they children of the Residentials Schools got to the see the darker side of mankind, mostly I think because of how isolatied the Schools were. The thing is People in charge knew and covered it up, because of how bad it would make the institution look (Catholic Church).
Today the same situation occurs within our governmental departments. The Department of National Defence is going through the sexual scandal of senior officers accused of misconduct/sexual abuse of subordinates. But I know for the last 40 years the DND had policies on sexual abuse and line of command for relationships. The problem was that their Leadership failed( Bad Leadership). Keeping it hidden so the institution did not get the blame and years later all that shit, that was hidden comes out; it really makes the instituion look bad.
Whatever the oringnal idea behind Residential Schools, it got twisted out of the norm. Things were easier to hide (if you are going to hide things, you probally know its wrong on a moral level), due to lack of what we have today (internet, news, social media) and things that were easier hidden back then are harder to hide today. Also today we have a higher social conscious on how to raise children, then 100 years ago. Then kids were seen and not heard. Today its different.
But take things with a grain of salt until all the facts are known. Don't jump to conclusions.
We are willing to hunt down, investigate and imprison Nazi war criminals who committed brutal acts over 80 years ago.
I don't see why we can't do the same for those Catholic priests, teachers and nuns who committed these despicable crimes in residential schools. The crimes they committed aren't very different in nature from what the Nazis did.
It's even more horrifying since they were entrusted with a duty to care for those children.
I don't see why we can't do the same for those Catholic priests, teachers and nuns who committed these despicable crimes in residential schools. The crimes they committed aren't very different in nature from what the Nazis did.
It's even more horrifying since they were entrusted with a duty to care for those children.
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Wow dude you really don't have a grasp of what really went on in these schools. Maybe take a moment some day and ask an elder about their experiences in these schools. It happened here ,in Ireland,Vietnam, Australia everywhere the churches went they brought nothing but death and grief for the aboriginals. Not just the Catholic church but many other denominations were involved in this genocide all across the world. Think about it for a second,215 bodies dumped in a mass grave, that's Rwanda, killing fields shit. There were over 100 residential schools run by the churches across Canada,it's estimated 150,000 children ranging from 4 to 16 years old to assimilate and beat the Indian out of the Indian. The Canadian Indian act is what South Africa based apartheid on,so let's not try to sugar coat this. I have a feeling this is just the tip of the iceberg.
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None of us has a grasp of what really went on. I sit here today at my Lake house surrounded by my white privilege reading the news about this atrocity and just feel disgusted. At the government institution that allowed it, at the churches for implementing this and at the disgusting filth that call themselves human beings who committed the crimes. By all means hunt the fuckers down in the same light as hunting Nazis. Bruce Cockburn's song "If I had a Rocket Launcher" seems appropriate.
I didn’t want to post here because this is one of those things where any comments that stray slightly out of the lines are met with massive opposition. It’s a hot button where people are just waiting to become enraged.
I think that no matter how anyone slices this situation, it’s horrific. There is no justifiable reason for anything like this to happen. Saying that just because this happened a long time ago or that it happened to various ethnicities is irrelevant.
A disgusting act is disgusting. We can go back in time and say that things were different back in the 1800s. Humans do this to distance themselves from the situation. It’s the same as when we say homelessness is a problem, but it’s a bigger problem in LA or New York.
It’s comforting to point at poverty and injustice while sitting in a comfortable warm home.
Genghis Khan raped and slaughtered countless people but that was 900 years ago. We are different now right?
No we are not. Humans are just as savage today. Raping children, mass murder over resources and senseless killing is very much a reality today. We justify it with our current beliefs about politics or the media masks it. As a species, we have not changed very much in the last few thousand years even though we have advanced technologically.
That’s not to say abandon faith in humanity. I have a great deal of faith in humanity and for the most part, people are good.
Things get difficult when humans get caught up in the momentum of things. It’s scary how far people will go when they get caught up in the perfect storm. That’s not to excuse what happened. Sadly, the momentum of those times dehumanized those that became victims. Ironically, this is partly what COVID had done to society as a whole while moving more of our life online. We currently operate behind a screen, it’s slightly less human. That’s the beginning of me being a little less human to you, the reader. How much easier is it to throw a comment at what I’m writing versus us sitting eye to eye and speaking to each other as real, live, living humans. We are not so different from each other.
The dehumanization of its day could have been race, or the attitude towards children. The power of government/authority/teachers over students etc.
What happened to these children is inexcusable and it’s still happening today. Children/people are exploited every day and there are coverups all the time. As someone in a previous post pointed out, Canada is now being faced with sexual misconduct within its military ranks.
The struggle and need for dominance and power are a very real human attribute. Men have often done it with physical force or their penis and woman have done it through mental manipulation and seduction.
It’s not just a part of Canadian history, it’s part of human history and also the human condition which is happening right now. It gets really uncomfortable for society to take a look at.
Thankfully society is more aware of such things and I hope one day we can read a story like this and thankfully say that actions like this are only found in the history books.
I think that no matter how anyone slices this situation, it’s horrific. There is no justifiable reason for anything like this to happen. Saying that just because this happened a long time ago or that it happened to various ethnicities is irrelevant.
A disgusting act is disgusting. We can go back in time and say that things were different back in the 1800s. Humans do this to distance themselves from the situation. It’s the same as when we say homelessness is a problem, but it’s a bigger problem in LA or New York.
It’s comforting to point at poverty and injustice while sitting in a comfortable warm home.
Genghis Khan raped and slaughtered countless people but that was 900 years ago. We are different now right?
No we are not. Humans are just as savage today. Raping children, mass murder over resources and senseless killing is very much a reality today. We justify it with our current beliefs about politics or the media masks it. As a species, we have not changed very much in the last few thousand years even though we have advanced technologically.
That’s not to say abandon faith in humanity. I have a great deal of faith in humanity and for the most part, people are good.
Things get difficult when humans get caught up in the momentum of things. It’s scary how far people will go when they get caught up in the perfect storm. That’s not to excuse what happened. Sadly, the momentum of those times dehumanized those that became victims. Ironically, this is partly what COVID had done to society as a whole while moving more of our life online. We currently operate behind a screen, it’s slightly less human. That’s the beginning of me being a little less human to you, the reader. How much easier is it to throw a comment at what I’m writing versus us sitting eye to eye and speaking to each other as real, live, living humans. We are not so different from each other.
The dehumanization of its day could have been race, or the attitude towards children. The power of government/authority/teachers over students etc.
What happened to these children is inexcusable and it’s still happening today. Children/people are exploited every day and there are coverups all the time. As someone in a previous post pointed out, Canada is now being faced with sexual misconduct within its military ranks.
The struggle and need for dominance and power are a very real human attribute. Men have often done it with physical force or their penis and woman have done it through mental manipulation and seduction.
It’s not just a part of Canadian history, it’s part of human history and also the human condition which is happening right now. It gets really uncomfortable for society to take a look at.
Thankfully society is more aware of such things and I hope one day we can read a story like this and thankfully say that actions like this are only found in the history books.
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We are living in times now where we succumb to the ideas from the leaders in power, no different than back in the day. We don't have radical change in Canada because we don't resist the powers, we just let it roll and sheepishly move on with our lives. Now that we have social media most people are living with the "new addiction" and its easy to not see what is going on around them until its too late.
In 2021- if 16 year old gets a smartphone now and spends 4 hrs day on it until 65 years old, they lose 8.16 years from their lives, its gone, but for what benefit? The social media experiment is working well for shitty governments to undermine their citizens due to distraction. If we despise our leader(s), lets get rid of him and repeat the cycle till we find one that's suits us all. As far as the bodies found last week, the children were under control and are not able to resist the powers. These are children, whether they died from disease or murder the fact remains that the family never had closure and that's what makes it tragic the most. I have done some of the research, i have family that went through this, i hope that one day people will understand that life is a gift and its precious, we need to enjoy all of it, we only get so many rotations around the sun and then our light turns off. I wish the families nothing but condolences and hope they find a path of healing in a positive way, please allow yourself to forgive even if you may never forget, find a balance that ensures your quality of life is fulfilled.
In 2021- if 16 year old gets a smartphone now and spends 4 hrs day on it until 65 years old, they lose 8.16 years from their lives, its gone, but for what benefit? The social media experiment is working well for shitty governments to undermine their citizens due to distraction. If we despise our leader(s), lets get rid of him and repeat the cycle till we find one that's suits us all. As far as the bodies found last week, the children were under control and are not able to resist the powers. These are children, whether they died from disease or murder the fact remains that the family never had closure and that's what makes it tragic the most. I have done some of the research, i have family that went through this, i hope that one day people will understand that life is a gift and its precious, we need to enjoy all of it, we only get so many rotations around the sun and then our light turns off. I wish the families nothing but condolences and hope they find a path of healing in a positive way, please allow yourself to forgive even if you may never forget, find a balance that ensures your quality of life is fulfilled.
Sure I do.
Alot of bad stuff happened to the Children in those schools... Did it happen in all the residential schools? Common belief is that it did. Were the schools any different from an 1920's orphanage for white kids? Did abuse happen at those places? How were kids treated at orphanages in the 1880s, 1900s, 1920s, 1940s, 1960s, 1980s, 2000s, 2020s? Can it be fucking possible that there has been a change in culture over the past 140 years, on how we treat people , kids etc...
Context.
There was a story about a Manitoba Residential School. It had graves too. I'm surprized that hasn't been brought up yet.
As for the Rawandan genocide it was 800,000 people (or more) killed in less than a year. Compare that to 100 years and 251 deaths. Kinda a difference in scale!!
On to numbers then.... 100 schools, 150,000 children and 100 years. So 150,000 divided by 100 school leaves 1500 kids per school average over 100 years. Now divide by 1500 by 100 years and you get 15 kids per school per year that attended Residential Schools over 100 years ..... And the news said 251 kids dead. That would be less than .0017% of kids that went to Residential Schools over 100 schools, over 100 years.
No type of death or what year it was.
Have to wait for an corner's report on what caused the death of the children.
The next question is did Canada have apartheid? Did the Cdn government want them dead, disposed of and gave them no rights. When did Aboriginals start to vote in Federal Elections? https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/indigenous-suffrage
Reading the reference here, its was about assimulation of Aboriginals.... not beat the Indian out of them.....
I think alot of people are using todays morals and knowledge to judge what went back in the time of Confederation in 1867. Hindsight is 20/20. Alot of people need to get over the facts that alot of shit happened "back in the day".
What is the social term today "No Judgement".
Seems to be someone/thing/group is using these instances in history to gain political capital in today's world, by guilt assosication.
What that German philosopher said "What does not kill me, only makes me stronger"....
I believe Germans had Trolls in their stories....
Your honesty gonna stand there and compare schools? Cmon dude,that's weak tea. If this model was so all fired terrific why aren't they continuing to this day? There are still public schools. There's even private religious schools,yet there really isn't the abuse,murder and rape going on in those private religious schools today now is there. Do you suspect if we were to use ground penetrating radar at these modern religious schools that we'd find 215 bodies in a mass grave? The school in question had a student population of around 500,now how do they eliminate nearly half of a schools population, dump them in a mass grave and get away with it? Is it because this sort of thing was going on at every school at that time both Residential and public? Your cavalier attitude to the death of 215 children is shocking indeed.
There is a certain amount of reason from which one can draw conclusions without "having all the facts". It's safe to say that given what we already know, "215 kids dying in residential school over the course of 88 years is bad". How bad is it? It's likely we'll never know the true extent of the atrocities. Even accounting for all the 'facts' you can from this incident, there's way more things that nobody can ever know about this school.
The notion that 'it was on par for the course in the past' can be true AND STILL NOT BE OKAY. People are using today's morals and judgment because we should! What kind of values are you trying to pass to the next generation if you are asking them to let past atrocities be bygone because it was 'normal'?!
I've a lot to say about social media and the "dehumanization" of public figures(parasocial relationships), but it's a fairly significant digression from this thread.
People throw around numbers/data as if they are some kind of authoritative figure on some subject matter. It's really a joke. How can you assume that all kids that died were buried? How can you assume there aren't other burial sites or other methods of which kids were disposed? The misuse of numbers (whether intentional or not) is a thinly disguised way of minimizing the victims. I do believe it's presented in good faith, but subconsciously there's something to be said about personal biases that are leaking from the "objective" perspective. I don't know how the above was typed with a straight face. Does anyone realize how stupid it sounds to say "you get 15 kids per school per year that attended Residential Schools"?!?! Seriously, did your numbers just magically turn residential schools into fucking 15 child capacity daycares or did you somehow forget to take into account that kids attend these schools from 4-16, meaning they would average 180 kids per school (assuming they attend all 12 years)?! However, I don't even know how that was relevant to anything beyond a pointless charade, because it's followed up with... 251 kids out of 150000 died, another pointless fact! 0.0017% of kids that went to residential schools died at this particular school. What point exactly are you trying to say? That it's okay because it's small compared to a Rwandan genocide? The "0.0017%" is completely meaningless. Again, STOP MINIMIZING THE VICTIMS. You're talking about deaths as if that were the bad thing that happened at these schools. It's complete insanity.
The notion that 'it was on par for the course in the past' can be true AND STILL NOT BE OKAY. People are using today's morals and judgment because we should! What kind of values are you trying to pass to the next generation if you are asking them to let past atrocities be bygone because it was 'normal'?!
I've a lot to say about social media and the "dehumanization" of public figures(parasocial relationships), but it's a fairly significant digression from this thread.
imagine being preschool aged & waking up to being taken from your parents brought to a school where youre abused raped & molested daily. imagine getting pregnant from your rapist who preaches to you everyday about god & forcing christianity on you. imagine goinf thru a 9 month pregnancy & going thru hard labor & birth as a young teenager & the nuns taking your baby you grew & bonded w for 9 months, & throwing him/her into a furnace & you never seeing your baby ever again. imagine having to watch your siblings get abused raped & molested & you cant do anything about it but be forced to watch. imagine being so traumatized from watching & enduring that pain your vomit & are forced to eat your vomit for making a mess. imagine having a strong connection to your culture traditions & hair & your hair being cut, being hit for even thinking about your culture. imagine waking up everyday either wanting to die or being scared its gonna be your last day alive from the amount of abuse you endure. imagine being traumatized over & over daily. imagine you finally are free & are reunited w your family. imagine you are so traumatized & you have no emotional or mental support becos nobody understands what you went thru becos youre too scared & traumatized to talk about it. imagine the lack of support leads you to having unhealthy behaviors & coping mechanisms. imagine those unhealthy & negative effects of abuse lead to behaviors you end up unintentionally modeling to your children. imagine your children following in your footsteps & you have no way to help or redirect them becos you arent healed from your trauma & dont know how to redirect yourself, let alone your children. imagine your grandchildren following the same footsteps & you still cant do anything about it. imagine people undermining your experience, thinking it never happened, brushing it under the rug. imagine people thinking your experience happened so long ago that they think youre dead already when youre alive & still traumatized to this day. imagine people not believing in generational trauma & they victim blame rather than helping you, your children & grand children. imagine rather than helping, they tell you to “get over it” imagine they invalidate everything above & want those 3 words “get over it” to magically cure you.
🧡 TO THE 215 CHILDREN FOUND, MAY YOUR FAMILY FIND YOU & GIVE YOU THE PROPER BURIAL YOU DESERVE. MAY YOU GUYS FIND THE PEACE YOU DESERVE. YOU ARE NOT FORGOTTEN. WE FEEL YOUR HURT. REST IN PEACE, WE LOVE YOU 🧡
🧡 TO THE 215 CHILDREN FOUND, MAY YOUR FAMILY FIND YOU & GIVE YOU THE PROPER BURIAL YOU DESERVE. MAY YOU GUYS FIND THE PEACE YOU DESERVE. YOU ARE NOT FORGOTTEN. WE FEEL YOUR HURT. REST IN PEACE, WE LOVE YOU 🧡
^this... this ^ so much. People that come from a place of privilege will need to work extra hard to "get it".
There is nothing more savage than a whiteman...
I don't see how the discovery of 215 children's bodies changes anything.
The kidnapping by the soulless RCMP of a hundred thousand children and turning them over to the sanctimonious Catholic Church (et al) for cruel assimilation has been common public knowledge for decades.
The kidnapping by the soulless RCMP of a hundred thousand children and turning them over to the sanctimonious Catholic Church (et al) for cruel assimilation has been common public knowledge for decades.
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Exactly .. most small bodies & babies from rape & sexual assault where burned in the furnaces below the schools . No one will ever really know . I have no words . Canada thinks they’re so superior & more evolved then the rest of the world !! Nope 😞
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