The Canadian Government needs to cut spending. Now where to start?
- Thread starter johnnydepth
- Start date
Wait?! Now you’re using the date of purchase as the last time canada received new war ships? By that definition we received new warships in feb of 2019. Because just like 1983, that’s when the contracts were signed. I have no horse in the overall race here...but the BS flying is pretty brutal. I lived in Halifax and watched those ships go through trials and celebrations, along with watching the subs sit in dry dock for what seemed like forever. I was 3 in 83, but I watched new ships sail in and be shown to the public when I was in high school (95) so quit you're ignorance and as MB said...use the interweb...it’s your friend.
Instead of the military cutting, cut the welfare to the Aboriginals, that should save 10 to 13 billion a year. Tax them too for having land in Canada. Tax them income tax too. Thats kinda of a cut and an income plan. Maybe look for more income opportunities that will help. Charge more for raw resources going overseas....I'm not racist, I just want everything to be equal for all Canadians, including the Aboriginals....But thats another thread entirely....
The military (DND) budget is about 10-13 billion, and doesn't cover the cost of purchase of new major equipment like tank, planes and ships, that is all on separate budget voted on by Parliament. (Personally I would quadruple the military budget). Conservative governments have always increased military spending after Liberal cuts. Alot of this spending was to make up for deficits within the military for training systems, personnel training, personnel support, infrastructure, and maintenance of items like planes, helicopters, ships, tanks that are over 30 years old ..... When a government is going to cut back, it always goes to the military first and tells it to cut money back; which affects the operational tempo of the Canadian Forces (ie can't do battalion maneuvers this summer, no budget for fuel). And it affects what maintenance you can do on the equipment (because you can't buy the parts, or make them(legally))
Most people sell their car after 7-8 years, and they don't abuse their cars. The equipment in the Canadian Forces gets tested and abused alot in the line of training and operational movements. Its a wonder that the equipment works at all....
"And stop with silly fearmongering. It does not work. We spend too much on military we dont need and cant afford. If we need to cut the spending that is where it should be done before anything else. End of story." chico1
That is only your opinion, otherwise without the Canadian Forces presence in WW2, you would be speaking GERMAN today not English...... Without Canadian soldiers on the battlefields of WW1 and WW2, Canada would not be the nation it is today, where you can criticize the government, have rights guaranteed under a article called Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedom. After WW2 Canadians got medical care, better welfare system and and EI (unemployment insurance), which is better for Canada. I remember my aunt telling me about a farmer who couldn't pay a doctor, because he had a broken leg..... So its a hell of alot better since WW2 overall for alll Canadians. EI was set up mostly to help seasonal workers (fishermen, fruit pickers etc).
And I turducken hate anyone that says "We live next to the United States and they will look after us Canadians..." "Or We Canadians will live under the US umbrella..." People who are inclined to these statements usually have their heads up their ass..... Also lets be practical, Americans will choose their own interest first, instead of Canadian interests...... don't get me wrong I don't hate the states, I just hate anybody that says you have to lie down and die......
So in the end the Canadian Forces have given us our way of life, well the Aboriginals take our money, and keep asking for more....and really haven't given Canadians anything of value.
On the other Hand, Canadian Forces Members are not allowed to say political things, while the Aboriginals whine and complain about not getting enough kickbacks from oil pipelines.
So where should the cuts be made?????
The military (DND) budget is about 10-13 billion, and doesn't cover the cost of purchase of new major equipment like tank, planes and ships, that is all on separate budget voted on by Parliament. (Personally I would quadruple the military budget). Conservative governments have always increased military spending after Liberal cuts. Alot of this spending was to make up for deficits within the military for training systems, personnel training, personnel support, infrastructure, and maintenance of items like planes, helicopters, ships, tanks that are over 30 years old ..... When a government is going to cut back, it always goes to the military first and tells it to cut money back; which affects the operational tempo of the Canadian Forces (ie can't do battalion maneuvers this summer, no budget for fuel). And it affects what maintenance you can do on the equipment (because you can't buy the parts, or make them(legally))
Most people sell their car after 7-8 years, and they don't abuse their cars. The equipment in the Canadian Forces gets tested and abused alot in the line of training and operational movements. Its a wonder that the equipment works at all....
"And stop with silly fearmongering. It does not work. We spend too much on military we dont need and cant afford. If we need to cut the spending that is where it should be done before anything else. End of story." chico1
That is only your opinion, otherwise without the Canadian Forces presence in WW2, you would be speaking GERMAN today not English...... Without Canadian soldiers on the battlefields of WW1 and WW2, Canada would not be the nation it is today, where you can criticize the government, have rights guaranteed under a article called Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedom. After WW2 Canadians got medical care, better welfare system and and EI (unemployment insurance), which is better for Canada. I remember my aunt telling me about a farmer who couldn't pay a doctor, because he had a broken leg..... So its a hell of alot better since WW2 overall for alll Canadians. EI was set up mostly to help seasonal workers (fishermen, fruit pickers etc).
And I turducken hate anyone that says "We live next to the United States and they will look after us Canadians..." "Or We Canadians will live under the US umbrella..." People who are inclined to these statements usually have their heads up their ass..... Also lets be practical, Americans will choose their own interest first, instead of Canadian interests...... don't get me wrong I don't hate the states, I just hate anybody that says you have to lie down and die......
So in the end the Canadian Forces have given us our way of life, well the Aboriginals take our money, and keep asking for more....and really haven't given Canadians anything of value.
On the other Hand, Canadian Forces Members are not allowed to say political things, while the Aboriginals whine and complain about not getting enough kickbacks from oil pipelines.
So where should the cuts be made?????
Whenever someone says they are not racist when expulsing their views, they usually are making racist statements. This post is no exception.
Just one example in bold. Where do we even begin? For starters indigenous people served in the military, and still do. Saying an entire group of people bring no value, you don't think that is racist?
Why buy used fighters. There was a Canadian company who bid on building fighters. Canadian turned it down. I would rather have my money spent on Canadian built stuff than foreign built crap. Before world war 2 we had a very strong military then governments decided not to maintain the military and look at the mess we are in now. We have a hard time protecting our north, we rely to much on USA who dose not have our best interests at heart. You want to cut the fat then stop giving money to help people in other countries to start. Develop a plan to get our resources to the world market. Stop non Canadian environmentalist/interests from interfering.
I also lived in Halifax in the 1990's, back when Point Pleasant Park had trees. It would be nice if we had the type of people and land prices who lived in Halifax out here. They were fully aware of the sacrifices the military made for the country and how hard military life is. Purchase date does not equal receipt date. I did not state that. You are correct about the Type 26 frigates. The contract for the Type 26 frigates was signed in February of 2019.
The last of the 12 City Class ships was built in 1996, so you would have seen one launched. The first one was in the water in 1988, almost 10 years before.
The Iroquois class ships served over 40 years, so it's not an unrealistic projection that the City Class ships will serve just as long, if not longer until they are replaced.
Yea, ships were built and sat around for four years unused before they were commissioned.Thanks, I rest my case
Will just say that the first CPF (or City Class) frigate was commissioned in 1992 not 1988.
What do you think happens between the time their built and the time they are commissioned? Three to four years of sea trials is not unusual for a brand new ship. You think they aren't sailing anywhere and nothing is breaking or ageing during that period of time between they are built and commissioned?
The City Class frigates will see at least 40 years of commissioned service, just like the Iroquois before they are paid off because of the amount of time it will take to build and test the ships. Just look at the build and commissioning times of the British Daring Class destroyers. Three years between the time the steel is cut, and another 3 years before they were commissioned on average. SIX years from the time the steel is cut to commissioning. No date has been established for when the first Canadian Type 26 will have its steel cut, which will probably still be at least a year or two from now.
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I will predict the type 26 will get delayed and or cancelled with a change in government. After all they had plans for new tankers for over 30 years and still haven't got them as the last ones were sold off for scrap metal.... lets face it building a ship in Canada is very expensive, that is why other countries go to Korea, Japan, and now India because of cheaper labour rates. BC Ferries goes to Europe to build new ferries.... The reason to get new ships is the Arctic, which has lots of mineral wealth. If Canadians don't protect it, who will?
If this thread is about finding ways to better put the Cdn government into the black. Aboriginal land claims will cost at over a Trillion dollars (land claims cover 1.2 times the land area of Canada). The reserves don't get taxed, they get handouts from the federal governments, their chiefs take the majority of it and says the Cdn government (white man) is not giving them enough... So Trillions of dollars in land-claims and the Canadian taxpayer is on the hook for it.... No politician has the balls to cut them off from the welfare, the taxpayers doll out to them, cause it would look bad. Politicains keep stringing them along..... Break the treaties and start by charging land taxes and income tax which will be fair to all taxpaying Canadians..... Its not racism, its practical budgeting. Taxpayers can't afford these Land-claims.
If this thread is about finding ways to better put the Cdn government into the black. Aboriginal land claims will cost at over a Trillion dollars (land claims cover 1.2 times the land area of Canada). The reserves don't get taxed, they get handouts from the federal governments, their chiefs take the majority of it and says the Cdn government (white man) is not giving them enough... So Trillions of dollars in land-claims and the Canadian taxpayer is on the hook for it.... No politician has the balls to cut them off from the welfare, the taxpayers doll out to them, cause it would look bad. Politicains keep stringing them along..... Break the treaties and start by charging land taxes and income tax which will be fair to all taxpaying Canadians..... Its not racism, its practical budgeting. Taxpayers can't afford these Land-claims.
Here you go again, saying it is not racism when you say racist things. Got to give you credit though, the racism is more veiled this time.
By the way, how do you break treaties that don't exist?
Not sure it is racist. He seems to be just stating a fact that everyone is already aware. I've oftened wondered what the solution is because things can't contine the way they are between Aboriginals and the Canadian government; it's not working for either side.
That's what makes this brand of racism so much more insidious. It is veiled by sprinkling of a few facts, a lot of fear, a bunch of misinformation, and broad sweeping statements about a large group of people, in this case the indigenous people of this land.
Just dissect his post and pull out what he is really saying about the indigenous people, once you discard all the other stuff.
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https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/aboriginal-treaties
If there are no treaties....then why does the federal government spend billions of dollars on them every year? They are allowed to vote federally, but don't pay taxes..... sounds like they got a better deal then the rest of the Canadian Citizens in this country. Cities could tax the Aboriginal lands in their cities.
So what taxes do I pay... Mostly Income tax, Land tax, PST, GST and taxes on gas. Import tax on stuff from abroad (ordering from companies in the states).
Taxes HD pays... I assume he pays the same as any other Canadian Citizen
Aboriginals pay.... nothing if living on a reserve, they don't pay for gas tax on a reserve, but allow other Canadians to buy from them, they do pay income tax if living off the reserve.
If there are no treaties....then why does the federal government spend billions of dollars on them every year? They are allowed to vote federally, but don't pay taxes..... sounds like they got a better deal then the rest of the Canadian Citizens in this country. Cities could tax the Aboriginal lands in their cities.
So what taxes do I pay... Mostly Income tax, Land tax, PST, GST and taxes on gas. Import tax on stuff from abroad (ordering from companies in the states).
Taxes HD pays... I assume he pays the same as any other Canadian Citizen
Aboriginals pay.... nothing if living on a reserve, they don't pay for gas tax on a reserve, but allow other Canadians to buy from them, they do pay income tax if living off the reserve.
Interesting read, thanks for the link. I apologize for not being clear in my earlier post. Of course there are treaties between some first nations and the crown. I was referring to the many First Nations in BC that does not have treaties, they never ceded their title to their traditional territory. How do you break those treaties that don't exist?
Did you read the content in the link you provided? It gives a lot of good background information to the questions you posed. Close to the beginning of the entry is this:
"In spite of the constitutional character of treaties, the non-Indigenous peoples who made and implemented them tended to see them as self-serving deals rather than sacred pacts between independent nations. Historically, non-Indigenous treaty negotiators believed treaties were inexpensive and convenient ways to strip Aboriginal title (i.e., ownership) from most of the lands in Canada so that resources could be used by settlers (see*Indigenous Territory.) Even in modern times, the federal and provincial governments tend to interpret treaties in legalistic terms, contending that Indigenous peoples “ceded, surrendered, and yielded” their ancestral rights and titles through treaties. In other words, treaties can be seen as real estate deals by which the Crown purchased Indigenous lands and provided them with*reserves*and one-time or continual payments in return (see*Treaty Day.)
This narrow view of treaties has produced a huge divide between the Canadian government’s perspective and that of Indigenous peoples. On the one hand is the government’s view of treaties as legal instruments that surrendered Indigenous rights. On the other is the Indigenous view of treaties as instruments of relationships between autonomous peoples who agree to share the lands and resources of Canada. Seen from the Indigenous perspective, treaties do not surrender rights; rather, they confirm Indigenous rights. Treaties recognize that Indigenous peoples have the capacity to self-govern. Bridging the gap between these two views of treaties poses a huge challenge to people and lawmakers in Canada."
I have a question for you Horn Dawg.Have you EVER lived next to a "family" of "thug natives"?.....as in right NEXT DOOR?Have you witnessed the stuff that goes on?I myself have.A "family" of 7 of them moved in right next door.A family of 7 in a 2 bedroom home with 1 bedroom for grandma and 1 bedroom for the parents and 4 unruly kids in the basement.During the 6 months they lived there the kids terrorized the neighborhood with vandalism and theft.The family shit smashed the place they were living in because they did not own it so they did not care about it.When the electricity was cut off because the bill was not paid they simply unplugged the neighbors deep freezer that was outside and hooked up an extension cord to steal electricity and let that persons food go bad in the July heat.I wont go into other details of the nastiness that family inflicted upon all of the rest of us home owners but when they were eventually evicted the place was totally trashed.All flooring had to be replaced as well as most of the drywall not to mention the painting that needed to be done.When dealing with a disturbance call the member of the CPS said straight out "YOU AGAIN" when he saw who he was dealing with.
So before you reply from your Ivory Tower with your response ask yourself what I have asked you....have you ever lived next to a family of "thug natives"....if you have not then you cant honestly answer the question.
Lieberals just love the photo ops and the like and the feel good words and BS with regards to First Nations....they dont want to live next to them though.The most cohesive government policy that was enacted was the First Nations Financial Accountability Act brought in under Stephen Harper which would have allowed financial transparency with regards to First Nations distribution of Federal Funds that they get.....the Chiefs dont want that as they dont get the first taste of the pie and to leave some crumbs in the pan for the rest.
Those Chiefs have learned quite well from the Lieberals how to fuck over their own citizens whilst enriching themselves.
SR
Have to agree with you on this one. I have seen many aboriginal families like this through the years. If anyone wants a good, realistic look into aboriginal life take a look at the series Blackstone. Very honest look into life on the reserve.
just look at the "hereditary chiefs" bullshit
they stripped 3 women, cause they wanted the pipeline
they've been doing this to their women forever, marry a white women, fine, marry a white man, lose your status, that's the way it use to be
pretty sure in Mohawk reserve down east you can't live on the reserve because of marrying a whitey
notice you don't see anyone talking about those 3 women losing their "hereditary chief" position in the news, almost at all
not to mention the narrative that
what if the "hereditary Chiefs" wanted the pipeline, but the band/elected chiefs didn't?
do you think the protesters/white Indians would be claiming that the "hereditary Chiefs" along with Cartman to "respect my authority" lol
the current mouthpiece for them, Chief wooo hoo, he replaced one of those women who dared to want the pipeline
funny how something that is Hereditary can just come and go on a whim, lol
Overdone, your statement of "they've been doing this to their women forever, marry a white women, fine, marry a white man, lose your status, that's the way it use to be" was not due to First Nations decision making, but was thanks to gender discrimination in the Indian Act. The feds didn't correct that until 1985 with the introduction of bill C31 to bring the Indian Act inline with our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The change allowed women and their offspring the ability to reclaim their status and band membership.
Another point in this thread that all First Nations individuals don't pay tax is an often repeated fallacy. Only First Nations employed on reserve don't pay income tax and only purchases made on reserve aren't subject to sales tax. An increasing majority of First Nations live and work off reserve.
I am not shocked by all the racism directed at First Nations on this board, but I am confused by the willfully ignorant repeated misstatement of simple facts ... Silly me, some posters don't believe combustion produces co2
Another point in this thread that all First Nations individuals don't pay tax is an often repeated fallacy. Only First Nations employed on reserve don't pay income tax and only purchases made on reserve aren't subject to sales tax. An increasing majority of First Nations live and work off reserve.
I am not shocked by all the racism directed at First Nations on this board, but I am confused by the willfully ignorant repeated misstatement of simple facts ... Silly me, some posters don't believe combustion produces co2
SR, since I don't know you personally and cannot validate your claim about having lived next door to a bad family, and that family happens to be indigenous. I am just going to take your word for it.
No, I have not had the misfortune of living next to a nasty family like that, indigenous or otherwise. I have lived next to some bad neighbours, most of them happen to be white. Growing up I experienced racism of one form or another on a regular basis, so I do have some experience there. I have and have had friends, colleagues that are indigenous, none of them fit the profile you painted. In fact, some of the most kind and generous people I have met are indigenous.
I am very sorry that you had such a bad experience with an indigenous family in the past. I don't know how old you were when this happened. If you were young when you had this experience, I am sorry that your parents could not impart on you that there are bad people from all ethnicities, just like there are good people.
I know several people whom have lost loved ones due to Robert Picton. There is tremendous pain and sadness, but never have I heard them say that all white people are bad.
You said I cannot answer the question unless I lived next to a nasty indigenous family. What question are you referring to?
