Wilson Raybould and Philpot to run as Indies

deathreborn

Active member
Jan 17, 2011
1,353
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probably smart of them to do what they're doing. they'll win their seats and be able to sit back and see how the election plays out before having to pick a side that will progress their political future. they may still end up back as liberals down the road if trudeau gets trounced and ejected from the party. liberals may realize their quickest way back to power in 2023 would be to welcome them back after trudeau's gone. glad they didn't pick the green party route as some had suggested. sure they could sit back and collect a nice salary and pension while doing nothing productive, as may has done, but there will never be any real power with the greens (thankfully).
 

storm rider

Banned
Dec 6, 2008
2,540
7
0
Calgary
probably smart of them to do what they're doing. they'll win their seats and be able to sit back and see how the election plays out before having to pick a side that will progress their political future. they may still end up back as liberals down the road if trudeau gets trounced and ejected from the party. liberals may realize their quickest way back to power in 2023 would be to welcome them back after trudeau's gone. glad they didn't pick the green party route as some had suggested. sure they could sit back and collect a nice salary and pension while doing nothing productive, as may has done, but there will never be any real power with the greens (thankfully).
It is late of night so I wont go in depth into this response.I have so many things I wish to pick apart and savage you on with regards to facts as well as stuff like "well no shit sherlock".

For the short answer both Raybould and Philpott are in cahoots and have been for some time.They are collectively hanging Trudeau in 2 Lieberal ridings which they will most likely WIN thanks to the SNC Lavscam affair.

SR
 

BobbyMcgee

Active member
Feb 3, 2014
936
190
43
It is late of night so I wont go in depth into this response.I have so many things I wish to pick apart and savage you on with regards to facts as well as stuff like "well no shit sherlock".

For the short answer both Raybould and Philpott are in cahoots and have been for some time.They are collectively hanging Trudeau in 2 Lieberal ridings which they will most likely WIN thanks to the SNC Lavscam affair.

SR
anyone or anyway to unseat trust fund son is just fine with me. anyone believing the greens and may have a canadian economy first priority plan may as well vote for selfie boy again. these times they are a changin...
 

Lo-ki

Well-known member
Jul 18, 2011
4,022
2,654
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Check your closet..:)
I just don't understand people that would would vote for a party or someone that would have NO influence at all once they are in.......
 

jgg

In the air again.
Apr 14, 2015
2,847
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Varies now
I just don't understand people that would would vote for a party or someone that would have NO influence at all once they are in.......
How much influence do any of our representatives have? They are all whipped to the party line regardless of what the folks back home want. Regardless of party, the PMO seems to run the government.
 

Jethro Bodine

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2009
4,459
1,893
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Beverly Hills. In the Kitchen eatin' vittles.
How much influence do any of our representatives have? They are all whipped to the party line regardless of what the folks back home want. Regardless of party, the PMO seems to run the government.
.

Exactly!
That's the problem with politics these days. That and the fact that all parties practice partisanship, to the detriment of the nation.
Long gone are the days when your individual MP/MPP/MLA wielded any political clout. Sure, some may become ministers and have a bit more influence but in reality the country is run by the unelected individuals in the PMO/Premire's office or even Mayor's office. This applies to all parties at all levels of government.
And that's why things never change and the really good people who should be in politics and our leaders, wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

Cheers
J
 

badbadboy

Well-known member
Nov 2, 2006
9,543
308
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In Lust Mostly
How much influence do any of our representatives have? They are all whipped to the party line regardless of what the folks back home want. Regardless of party, the PMO seems to run the government.
.

Exactly!
That's the problem with politics these days. That and the fact that all parties practice partisanship, to the detriment of the nation.
Long gone are the days when your individual MP/MPP/MLA wielded any political clout. Sure, some may become ministers and have a bit more influence but in reality the country is run by the unelected individuals in the PMO/Premire's office or even Mayor's office. This applies to all parties at all levels of government.
And that's why things never change and the really good people who should be in politics and our leaders, wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

Cheers
J
100% all MP's have to toe the party line and vote on everything as a block.

The only time they have any influence or say in decisions is when they are appointed as a Cabinet Minister or lead a committee etc. Both Raybould Wilson and Philpott went against party lines and got tossed from caucus. Pushing back against the PMO and Privy Council can be as we've witnessed with these two MP's.

Independent MP's and smaller parties are better for all of us, otherwise, we would have a dysfunctional two party system as evidenced in the US.
 

rlock

Well-known member
May 20, 2015
2,281
1,360
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I think it's a mistake. They could have gone with the Greens, even led them. They could have doubled their seats and doubled it again, in a single day, and made that option a serious force to be reckoned with - the only party that actually stands for the things they say they want, instead of just paying lip service to it during campaigns. The greatest chance of achieving the kind of policies she wants lies in assembling a powerful group effort to get it done.

Alone, even if they can win their seats*, they'll have no power to do anything once elected. They will get no chance to speak during Question Period, which is a useless shit-show but still the only part of parliamentary proceedings the media covers anymore. They only cover the rest if they sense some inherent drama about to unfold. (Indeed, would they ever have covered those committee hearings if JWR was not there to deliver some bombshells?)

Think about it: if the problem was that even as governing-party MP's and cabinet ministers, they had no real power or autonomy to stray from the PMO / party leader's game plan, they'll have even less as members of no party representing nothing beyond the borders of their own riding. What MP from any other party but the Greens would stick their necks out to support any legislation coming from JWR or Philpott?

Their only hope to effect change would be in a hung parliament, where the margin between minority and majority is so thin that the parties would need their 1 or 2 seats to make or break a government.

If Scheer and the Conservatives won a minority and needed them numerically, they couldn't join that coalition because they stand on opposite ends of most issues (neither JWR or JP was considered a "blue Liberal"), so forgte about cooperation there. If the Liberals were in that position instead, believe me they are going to hold a grudge, unless Trudeau himself was out of the way so they could welcome them back in without losing face.

So we're back to them hoping that 2 seats out of 338 can generate some sort of leverage with parties that are more likely to shut them out.

People point out Chuck Cadman as having similar levels of personal support, but they also forget the ferocity with which his former Reform / Alliance / Conservative colleagues turned against him for daring to disagree and go his own way. He didn't live long enough to really test out what an indie could do. His widow certainly didn't think much of her chances of carrying the torch after him - she went back into the Con fold.


For JWR, she's got a fighting chance of winning Vancouver-Granville, but the Cons have a chance too. She better hope that enough of the anti-Trudeau vote (Cons mostly) will vow for her out of some kind of spite. Everyone who doesn't want the Cons will be split between Liberal, NDP, Green, and her. The Greens may like her and not want to undercut her, but consider that if the Greens don't run a candidate in every riding, they might be excluded from the leaders' election debates, so they would be forced to at least put a paper candidate up, and that would siphon votes away from JWR - to the advantage of the Cons.

As for Philpott, she's likely ended her career as an MP - her riding is solidly red-vs.-blue, and the "hero" badge was not hung upon her the same way it was for JWR. The Libs will want to compete just to be rid of her, and the Con voters in that riding can vote Con with a solid expectation of victory. (Trudeau half loses if Philpott wins, but fully if some Con wins.)

One other thing JWR maybe failed to consider:
She is the most powerful indigenous politician in Canada to date. She held one of the few major cabinet positions (major being powerful enough to affect all aspects of governance). So indigenous people were proud of her, and supported the party she was with because they supported her. When she and that party had a falling out, their support clearly went with her. But now, if she carries the indigenous vote at all, it will only be in her own riding. All the indigenous people outside her riding who want to continue supporting her will have no avenue to do so. At least if JWR had joined the Greens, even if they could not directly vote for her, the indigenous voters outside her riding could have supported the party she was with. So that's gone now too.

I know she wanted to change party politics to be more independent-oriented and non-partisan, but the fact that she was even offered to lead the Greens if she joins only show the degree to which their views and her are naturally aligned. She could lead them to that objective and they would have followed because who leads the party is not as important as their mission (which is basically the same).

Instead, I think we're just going to see another election which shows Canadians how much First-Past-The Post drives these cruel calculations, and fosters the very extreme partisanship which JWR wants to rebel against.

Idealism is nice, but when it's not paired with tactical & strategic cunning, it fails.
 

80watts

Well-known member
May 20, 2004
3,444
1,317
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Victoria
Politicians are all about their ego.... Its about the power they can claim; because after all if you have the power to change things, you change it to what you believe in. Your truth is the only one that matters.

In the meantime, people still are starving in Canada, people are still poor, not everyone has a nice perfect well paying job. Crime is abundant from organized crime to petty theft... And the politicians collect their paychecks all while making alot of noise and not doing anything to better the lives of all Canadians. Our health care system is very broken, the care given to senior citizens is atrocious, all while milking their life savings away.... the rich are still rich and the middle class is disappearing under the weight of taxes and the high cost of living.

Look at the governments, in search of cash; driving the lotto max to 2 times a week, and the people seeking the millions now pay double. But of course thats their choice....

Canada is well on its way to becoming a welfare state. The welfare people will keep voting in liberals or people who will give them a free ride for life... All in the name of individual rights and freedoms... Meanwhile there are taxes to pay to pay for our governmental (prov and fed) fuck ups.

Whats that line the biggest crooks are lawyers and politicians...
 
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