Who Runs Canada

[treveller]

Not too long ago I was criticized by one of the Mods for saying there is a small group of people who tell the Canadian government what to do and thus run Canada. There may have been something said about my tin foil cap. My comment was off hand and probably inaccurate. I apologize for that.

Earlier today I heard about the SNC-Lavalin bribery case where the company was being criminally investigated. As the Globe and Mail story goes, things were not looking good for the company so it lobbied the government for a non-criminal option which the government quietly implemented in law. The company then lobbied to have the matter moved to the new system. The prosecutors refused. The Minister of Justice Jody Wilson-Raybould then refused to pressure the prosecutors. Wilson-Raybould has since been demoted. All just conspiracy theory of course.

Later today I saw an interesting post with a cynical comment about who is really running Canada. So here is an updated list. It is not such a small list but it is at the same time, not anything like the voters list.

https://thebusinesscouncil.ca/about-the-council/members/

 

[dumass]

Trudeau's government is corrupt. This is not news and anybody with half a brain knows this. He's already violated 4 ethics commission rulings, with the lame excuse he was on vacation with 'family friends' which he hasn't seen in 15 years, but also so happens to be a lobbiest who was given millions in government grants, of which Trudeau himself was part of the approval committee.

In parliament Scheer pressured Justice Minister David Lametti who refused to answer whether Trudeau's Office discussed the SNC Lavalin case, and suggested non-criminal options. It was a simple Yes/No answer, but of course Trudeau's cronies are experts at not answering questions. Not surprising since Trudeau touted Canada's belief in "Rule of Law" and our "independent judiciary" following his debacled Huawei fiasco. I guess his definition of "independent" doesn't include his personal interference in judicial matters.

I think its pretty clear that with enough money, you can buy your way into, or out of anything, with Trudeau.

 

[storm rider]

Trudeau's government is corrupt. He's already violated 4 ethics commission rulings, with the lame excuse he was on vacation with 'family friends' which he hasn't seen in 15 years, but also so happens to be a lobbiest who was given millions in government grants, of which Trudeau himself was part of the approval committee.

In parliament Scheer pressured Justice Minister David Lametti who refused to answer whether Trudeau and his government discussed the SNC Lavalin case, particularly non-criminal rulings. It was a simple Yes/No question. Not surprising since Trudeau touted Canada's belief in "Rule of Law" and our "independent judiciary" following his debacled Huawei fiasco. I guess his definition of "independent" doesn't include his personal interference in judicial matters.

I think its pretty clear that with enough money, you can buy your way into, or out of anything, with Trudeau.

Lieberals dont answer questions in Parliament or on the Hustings...Lieberals DODGE questions.....they obfuscate/fabricate/redirect.....anything but actually ANSWERING a question even when it is a brain dead non rhetorical answer of YES/NO.

Did the PMO staff put the screws to the Justice Minister.....damn right.....and that is why Trudeau is SPECIFICALLY not answering direct YES/NO questions and responding with the script written for him by his lawyers.

Nothing worse than an entitled prick who feels that Canadians should pay for his entitlement and has the attitude of "Do as I say not as I do"

Did you notice/see that Trudeau was ABSENT from Parliament today.......fuck no way he would want to re-read the script written for him 3 dozen times....so he has his lackeys do it for him

SR

 

[dumass]

I'm really surprised China took to the way of politicising and criticising Trudeau in order to force the release of Huawei CFO Meng Huihou, because it would have been much easier for them to just make a large deposit into his personal bank account, or offer him a vacation on a private Island hosted by a supposed long-lost 'family friend', to get him involved in the 'independent' judicial extradition request.

 

[nowayjose]

Whatever shitty things he's done, he legalized weed, making him my favorite PM ever!

 

[apl16]

Corporations run Canada..... whether it was Tweedledee/Harper or Tweedledum/Trudeau...... nothing new

 

[whistlerboi]

Great question

Corporations run Canada..... whether it was Tweedledee/Harper or Tweedledum/Trudeau...... nothing new

Exactly what apl said. Anyone who believes the business lobby in Canada is not running Canada is seriously deluded.

 

[licks2nite]

SNC Lavalin provides hundreds of careers for thousands. Canada doesn't need collateral damage either on employees of SNC Lavalin or what's left of the Canadian manufacturing sector and those rare few Canadians who actually contribute to the Canadian economy with an income from an export product.

 

[treveller]

Good to see the reminder that the Conservatives are no better, and probably worse, than the Liberals. The way things are now, any party that has power will be corrupted by corporate Canada. Harper may have told fewer lies than Trudeau because he simply refused to bother answering the questions.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Gerald Butts. Who by the way has become a very rich man feeding off the public trough provincially and federally his entire life.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...over-200000-for-moving-homes/article31995512/

Cheers
J

 

[80watts]

Ok,
Back to the lawyers fees/real estate fees for moving. If its a Treasury board deduction, its within government guidelines. All government workers are entitled to those deductions. MP must retain a residence in their riding. So they rent in Ottawa and that is at government expense. There are alot of rules.

The premise is that if you live in BC and your work now takes you to Ontario the government pays for the move....
Outside of government.

Most Large Companies do this too. If you have a new job in Ontario, the company will move you. Or they pay for transport to and from work (eg. You live in Vancouver and work in the oil fields of Alberta)

And most 99% of the time, the money goes to lawyers, real estate agents, and the company moving you. People need to take their heads out of their asses......

If you want to bitch about the system, make it an election issue.

As for becoming rich off the fed and prov government, if you move your dwelling and make a profit (Toronto has been a hot market for the last twenty years or so). What happens when you live in a economic depressed area and you can't sell your house/or have to sell at lower price, when you have to move because of work....

So real estate fee of 6.5 % to 7% on 1,000,000.00 = 65000.00 to 70,000.00 WoW - whos is making the money.....I think Treasury board has caps on the amount of real estate fees

That 10,000 for senior staff and 30,000 for Chiefs of staffs probally dosen't include legal ,estate fees, and moving company fees (that is covered by treasury board policy). Its miscellaneous expenses.

 

[dumass]

SNC Lavalin provides hundreds of careers for thousands. Canada doesn't need collateral damage either on employees of SNC Lavalin or what's left of the Canadian manufacturing sector and those rare few Canadians who actually contribute to the Canadian economy with an income from an export product.

Aside from the above sentence not making sense, SNC broke the law, and its up to the AG to independently recommend charges to the Crown. JT just spent the better part of 3 months blabbing about the "rule of law" and "independent judiciary", but its clear he was lying through his teeth and tried to interfere in this case. SNC will take its lumps, but it will survive in one form or another. If we followed your logic, every big company could break the law with impunity. I know the legal system isn't perfect, and lots of rich actors get away with crimes, but the fact that the bad Actor does some public good doesn't negate the crime.

Good to see the reminder that the Conservatives are no better, and probably worse, than the Liberals. The way things are now, any party that has power will be corrupted by corporate Canada. Harper may have told fewer lies than Trudeau because he simply refused to bother answering the questions.

What is the reminder that the Conservatives are no better? This case involves Trudeau's Liberals and covering up for interfering with the AG's actions - she was demoted for not obeying master JT, and the liberals are now in cover up mode. What did the conservatives do wrong here? Harper is no angel, but last i checked he wasn't the first PM to be found violating ethics codes, and 4 times at that.

 

[beinghuman]

Corporations!

 

[treveller]

The reminder by apl16 was "Corporations run Canada..... whether it was Tweedledee/Harper or Tweedledum/Trudeau...... nothing new".

I hate trying to compare Harper and Trudeau but remember that Harper gave us the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act, someone in his cabinet referred to all clients as predatory perverts and I am sure that, if it would buy him votes he needed from his social conservative base, we would all be in jail.

 

[80watts]

The honest answer is that for 1 day the voters are the government. Then the MP sit in parliament and every dog and pony show is trying to buy their votes....

In some parts it is the civil service for everyday running. For the big items its the politicians that control the federal departments. The cabinet decides political issues for a majority government. The prime minister is the CEO. But he has certain obligations to the Governor General. The Armed Forces answer to the Governor General, but are control by the minister of national defense (through budgets etc), by a deputy minister(civilian) and chief of defence staff (military). Although the military has the largest budget (it has the most people), its the ministry of Finance that is the most powerful government agency (control of the money), next would be the ministry of supply (they buy things for the government and give out government contracts).

The political power is in the PM hands, but there are counterbalances. ie. public opinion

Cynics would say its the lobbyists (controls by the banks and big business)

Practical persons would say the senior civil service members.

In reality its a combo of them all.

For all about SNC Lavalin http://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNC-Lavalin

Gives a little history on the company, look at its government contracts. Most any body at a senior level in government would of heard of SNC Lavalin even before 2010.

 

[licks2nite]

Aside from the above sentence not making sense, SNC broke the law, and its up to the AG to independently recommend charges to the Crown. JT just spent the better part of 3 months blabbing about the "rule of law" and "independent judiciary", but its clear he was lying through his teeth and tried to interfere in this case. SNC will take its lumps, but it will survive in one form or another. If we followed your logic, every big company could break the law with impunity. I know the legal system isn't perfect, and lots of rich actors get away with crimes, but the fact that the bad Actor does some public good doesn't negate the crime.

The law is flawed, lacks transparency and inherently corrupt, should be prosecuting the executive that signed on to wrong doing, not criminalizing and destroying a viable Canadian corporation.

 

[dumass]

The law is flawed, lacks transparency and inherently corrupt, should be prosecuting the executive that signed on to wrong doing, not criminalizing and destroying a viable Canadian corporation.

While the company itself is its own entity, It is governed by the board of directors who make decisions for the entity. Directors can be personally/criminally liable for the actions of the entity in some circumstances if it meets a certain threshold of mens rea. This is why SNC is trying hard to avoid criminal prosecution, to try shield controlling members from personal liability.

Its speculative now to suggest how this plays out, before court proceedings have begun, the evidence has been laid out, and the sentencing rendered. It could very well be that some directors are personally responsible if the evidence shows complicity, and it could very well be that the entity is not "destroyed" but survives with strong penalties against it. We don't know enough now to assume as much.

 

[treveller]

And if SNC Lavalin is at risk if failing, is it "too big to fail". There has been talk of thousands of employees losing their jobs. This is mostly a con used to protect the share holders and executives rather than the employees. Failure of the company would be a trying disruption for the employees but the engineering work will still need to be done by someone and the lost jobs will be recreated somewhere else in other engineering firms. Is it worth undermining our "rule of law" system to prevent the disruption?

 

[treveller]

80watts, you give a great description of the complex way power is shared. Makes me think of the Yes Minister series on BBC. It seems to me that the sharing of power between the voters and the various parts of government is legitimate and necessary while the power that the largest corporations have is corrupt and harmful. George Monbiot gives a great example of what that corruption could look like in his Guardian article.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...saster-capitalists-no-deal-brexit-environment

 

[licks2nite]

And if SNC Lavalin is at risk if failing, is it "too big to fail". There has been talk of thousands of employees losing their jobs. This is mostly a con used to protect the share holders and executives rather than the employees. Failure of the company would be a trying disruption for the employees but the engineering work will still need to be done by someone and the lost jobs will be recreated somewhere else in other engineering firms. Is it worth undermining our "rule of law" system to prevent the disruption?

The engineering work could go offshore. What counts in addition to saving good paying Canadian careers, is not inflicting collateral damage on a viable Canadian corporation that provides offshore income and helps balance of payments for what's left of the Canadian economy that has already been decimated of its export manufacturing sector. Anybody who thinks that Canadians can go on importing consumer products and be wealthy essentially charging a fee cutting each others hair needs to re-think.