Trans Mountain expansion effectively dead (for now)
- Thread starter CanineCowboy
- Start date
Something else that I didn't mention: Trade treaties have secret tribunals, primarily so that corporations such as Kinder Morgan won't be seen collecting big compensation for delays by, for instance, environmental considerations. If Donald Trump tears up Nafta, Canada, I would expect be relieved of that secretive treaty and wouldn't be required to pay compensation to Kinder Morgan. Rather think that Justin Trudeau's bid to buy Kinder Morgan pipeline for $4.5 billion actually would be near the cost of compensation resulting for Appeals Court to render decision and the current delay that Trudeau and Kinder Morgan realized would happen when Trudeau made the bid months ago.
Dont know about kickbacks but Quebec fought the pipeline because the product of the Oilsands is "dirty oil".....funny enough that did not matter to the city of Montreal when they dumped 500 MILLION gallons of raw sewage into the St Lawrence seaway....oh the hypocracy indeed.
SR
Media keeps spinning that Kinder Morgan pipeline expansion is most necessary for the Canadian economy, that Canada needs higher prices that an overseas buyer for Canadian oil would bring rather than selling only to the United States. An appeal to the Supreme Court could fail. Stories are ramping up about how the remaining 75 Orca Whales in the Southern population are doing, re: ship noise and lack of Salmon to eat. I would expect Canadian refined oil from New Brunswick and Ontario dominating the Canadian market would be as good or better than expecting a premium price from anybody overseas. With all the media attention nationally now, I would hope that Quebec would cooperate and let a pipeline through Quebec to New Brunswick. Kinder Morgan can survive nicely in British Columbia with its current pipe and Justin Trudeau could save $4.5 billion to build a pipe through Quebec and, if necessary, pay kickbacks for the Quebec government to get on side.
Kickbacks, I hesitated to use this word, but Quebec wanted money for the pipeline to go through it. Call it fees or whatever....
The new pipelines cant go east, south, so west it is....
That northern gas line through Prince Rupert looks good now..... or are we trying to save natural gas to heat homes in Ontario in the future....
The new pipelines cant go east, south, so west it is....
That northern gas line through Prince Rupert looks good now..... or are we trying to save natural gas to heat homes in Ontario in the future....
The Northern Gateway pipeline already lost its court case for not properly consulting First Nations - that is why the Trans Mountain decision wasn't such a surprise to people who had been paying attention.
All of my friends celebrated the court's decision! I also noticed a lot of First Nations, environmentalists and just plain British Columbians also celebrated!
If you educated yourself on the court's decision there is no mention of your claim that the First Nations were challenging the NEB ruling due to not getting cash. So that is simply FAKE NEWS probably perpetrated from racist sentiment. Take the Cold Water nation as an example, the court found that the risk of the pipeline contaminating the source of their drinking water was given no consideration in the consultation process.
The tar sands oil is dirty by the way, that is why it fetches a lower price than sweet crude. Less of it can be refined into higher value products such as gasoline and diesel. The refinement process is expensive and dirty due to the excessive amount of sulphur. With changes coming in 2020 that will lower the allowable sulphur levels in bunker fuel, 20% of the tar sands will be made financially unviable.
The failure of the Trans Mountain expansion has nothing to do with importing oil from Saudi Arabia. It was seen as a viable way to export bitumen, not provide the domestic market with oil to refine.
Alberta tar sand oil is dead whether they build a pipeline or not. Demand will drop globally in the next decade and dirty oil will be the first casualty.
"Fees" for Quebec would be a bigger share of the federal royalties that would also have to be paid to other provinces along an "Energy East" pipeline according to some formula likely defined by the number of kilometres of pipe running through a province. Nothing wrong with evolving spending powers, and hence taxing powers, to local governments. The more local the spending/taxing process, the more transparent the process and therefore much less likely to be corrupt. British Columbia and most of the Atlantic province wouldn't get any "fees", but really, why should they since they're not involved.
Something else: Andrew Scheer, the federal Leader of the Opposition in a radio interview recently was heard to say that an expanded Kinder Morgan pipeline would only serve more of the west coast/California market, and therefore won't fetch a higher price for Alberta crude that is currently going with as much as a 40% discount into the United States market. Justin Trudeau's touting of a necessity to export to an Asian market to attain world prices, that of Brent & WTI (West Texas Intermediate), would not be found according to the Oppositions Leader's comment, from any crude coming out of an expanded Kinder Morgan pipe in British Columbia. Rejoice all environmentalists, the 75 Orca Whales in the Southern population won't be disturbed by any increased shipping out of Vancouver harbour. The Opposition Leader may well be right since Justin Trudeau may well have an impossible hurdle to jump to appeal to a Supreme Court of Canada. In the last article I saw on that topic, Trudeau was only mulling an appeal and gave an impression that "doing a better job" would be better spent elsewhere and "looking at the big picture". If you're like me, you hope that elsewhere is Quebec. After all, a barrel of premium priced oil turned away at the east coast is certainly worth as much as a barrel of premium priced oil exported at the west coast.
Just another reason that spending/taxing powers be turned over to provinces, territories, cities and municipalities. Lack of transparency testifies to what's wrong that Alberta keeps the price of oil down in the western United States, that is the current regime. What goes around comes around. Canada gets a lot of fresh fruit and vegetables from the western United States. Canada may likely be getting food discounts, thanks Alberta, for discounted oil in spite of California's decade long severe drought condition. And Canada has been short on NATO commitments some decades that likely saves Canada a considerable portion of the oil discount that Alberta has been giving the United States. Thanks again, Alberta, I wouldn't think of trying to collect any of the fees on your pipeline to eastern Canada.
Something else: Andrew Scheer, the federal Leader of the Opposition in a radio interview recently was heard to say that an expanded Kinder Morgan pipeline would only serve more of the west coast/California market, and therefore won't fetch a higher price for Alberta crude that is currently going with as much as a 40% discount into the United States market. Justin Trudeau's touting of a necessity to export to an Asian market to attain world prices, that of Brent & WTI (West Texas Intermediate), would not be found according to the Oppositions Leader's comment, from any crude coming out of an expanded Kinder Morgan pipe in British Columbia. Rejoice all environmentalists, the 75 Orca Whales in the Southern population won't be disturbed by any increased shipping out of Vancouver harbour. The Opposition Leader may well be right since Justin Trudeau may well have an impossible hurdle to jump to appeal to a Supreme Court of Canada. In the last article I saw on that topic, Trudeau was only mulling an appeal and gave an impression that "doing a better job" would be better spent elsewhere and "looking at the big picture". If you're like me, you hope that elsewhere is Quebec. After all, a barrel of premium priced oil turned away at the east coast is certainly worth as much as a barrel of premium priced oil exported at the west coast.
Just another reason that spending/taxing powers be turned over to provinces, territories, cities and municipalities. Lack of transparency testifies to what's wrong that Alberta keeps the price of oil down in the western United States, that is the current regime. What goes around comes around. Canada gets a lot of fresh fruit and vegetables from the western United States. Canada may likely be getting food discounts, thanks Alberta, for discounted oil in spite of California's decade long severe drought condition. And Canada has been short on NATO commitments some decades that likely saves Canada a considerable portion of the oil discount that Alberta has been giving the United States. Thanks again, Alberta, I wouldn't think of trying to collect any of the fees on your pipeline to eastern Canada.
all the pipline is show the charter of rights is scam we need new constitution becase we need it these things are need but that canada just like the states big buzz.
Since the pipeline problem started which was way before current situation transport of oil by rail has increased by 300%. Pipelines are 2.5X safer than rail transport. Oil will always be in demand until it runs out. Alternative forms of energy (wind/solar) are not efficient that this time. Read some of the contracts of the wind farms in Ontario. There is a big surprise in them contracts which makes them only about 18% efficient plus the stand are putting heavy metal elements into the ground water polluting the ground water. People who think they are environmentalist really do understand that there is no such thing as a true environmentalist. Every day items that you use to day is created and built by equipment that is made from non-environmetnal equipment. Foundries are not environmental free. Anything made from metal is not environmental friendly.
lol, the court ruling is a ruling on the Trudeau gov't
they had complete control over the pipeline, they approved it, had the power to direct the NEB
Trudeau own's this, will wear this, it's his
and your delusions of BC's ability to go without oil, oil products, is just that, delusional
the world is decades, many decades away from that
where do you think the oil is already being processed?
we have a new refinery here, producing low sulphur diesel
it's also, already being shipped to Texas and refined there
or haven't you heard of that Keystone line?
they aren't shutting down anytime soon, lol
dream on
the railways are just ramping up, there was a new deal just signed with CN
the plants already running won't be shutting anytime in your lifetime
and just for you truly delusional in BC
BITUMEN already runs thru the existing pipeline and has for a while
delusions, aren't they great
oil production in Alberta isn't going to stop
the railways are just going to pick up the slack
The court's decision was against the NEB's approval of the pipeline expansion based on the two deficiencies I previously stated...I would love to see where Justin Trudeau's name is mentioned in the ruling...so you are just spouting more Albertan rhetoric.
Just so you have the record straight, Kinder Morgan applied to the NEB on December 16, 2013 to expand the Trans Mountain pipeline and so the process actually got underway during the Harper led Conservative government. Justin's Liberal government were not sworn in until November 4, 2015, almost two years later, so the review process was already under way.
I never said BC doesn't need oil, we are just not dependant on Albertan oil. Remember all those previous threats by Alberta to cut us off and the analysis that followed. Oil is a global commodity if Alberta won't sell to BC someone else will. USA? Mexico?
Even removing all environmental concerns, the threat to the tar sands is the prohibitive cost of extraction and refinement while it fetches such a low price. If you boys are sittin' pretty with your current set up like you claim, stop bitching to the rest of us about needing a pipeline.
And I think everyone already knows that the Trans Mountain pipeline already operates, the whole discussion is around its expansion. Or maybe you are just realizing that?
Govt gives pipeline regulator 22 weeks to sort it out.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/natural-resources-trans-mountain-1.4832759
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/natural-resources-trans-mountain-1.4832759
Trudeau approved the pipeline, not Harper, Trudeau's cabinet, not rhetoric, facts
he could have stopped it, ordered it to start over, he didn't
he owns it
and yes you don't need our oil, lol
how you going to get that oil from elsewhere? huh?
pipelines? lol
tankers? lol
those are what you're fighting now, isn't it? lol
thought that was the problem?
did you ask the Natives about that?
just like your hypocrite stance on the pipeline that's already there
we want oil, we just don't want a drop more than we need going thru the place
so stop taking it, go somewhere else
lol
delusions :loco:
