Conscious Pooners

[yvrvisitor]

I am torn on this subject.
Being a capitalist by heart, I don't really believe in all that "conscious" talks specially in the West Coast.

Organic, fair trade, ocean wise, etc. etc.

Hasn't been too long since I started paying extra $ to purchase free range organic eggs, organic banana, and such - but I do noticed a better taste in them so that I started to justifying paying extra.

One of the recent review by an old member about an agency in Vancouver got me thing. I won't name the name but we all know which one I am talking about.
There's been much talk about the working condition, poor treatment to girls (and customers) and such.

I reviewed the OP's posting history and found that he actually frequent the said agency, which got me thinking ... he must know the history and current condition of the agency but what makes him to go back to check out every single new girls?

Then realize ... the agency gets new (green) girls and get them to do almost all services available (mostly I assume girls don't know what the standard vs. extra services are) and they get peanuts (there are reports that girls get as low as 30%).

But from a pooner's point of view, I don't think i can fault him that he wants to check out any of new/green girls at low price before those girls disappear or move to other agencies at higher price.

What would you do?
Fully knowing girls are being treated unfairly, would you still go to take advantages of these naive girls (because we are all dogs after all? or because someone else is going to take the advantages over these girls if not me first?)

We, as pooners, want maximum service at minimum price.
Now, is it funny to talk about "standard" or "consciousness" when pointing?
Or can we be more responsible pooners?

No judgements but would love to hear what you have to say.

 

[felixthecat]

Then realize ... the agency gets new (green) girls and get them to do almost all services available (mostly I assume girls don't know what the standard vs. extra services are) and they get peanuts (there are reports that girls get as low as 30%).

But from a pooner's point of view, I don't think i can fault him that he wants to check out any of new/green girls at low price before those girls disappear or move to other agencies at higher price.

I draw the line at knowingly being an accessory to theft and abuse. No and no. Clients should know better. If I won't steal from a girl or obtain consent on false promises, I also shouldn't turn the blind eye when her agent/pimp is doing that on my behalf.

From what we heard about the operation, girls are promised a bigger share of profits and then their "contract" gets forcefully "renegotiated" after they started working. No different than a client taking some money back at the end of the session, it is theft. Given the delicate aspects of sex work, the broken promise can invalidate the prior consent, so the whole thing is looking more like a sexual assault. The pimp could be likely indicted if the girls came forward to the police.

Any indication of abuse gets stronger when the girls have to sleep with their boss as a condition of employment. It's frowned upon in any industry these days, even if compensated. Would your company hire Harvey Weinstein? It wouldn't be a smart thing to do. Not illegal, but wrong if you care about your image. In theory girls should be free to agree to "trading services" if they want to, but then their "employer" can be rightfully scrutinized for possible control/abuse motives that pimps used for ages.

I never use agencies, for all the reasons you suggest. No massage places either.
The women deserve to get all the money.

That's too strong a stance I think. It might be patronizing to the women, whom you seem to deny the right of choosing to be employed vs. self-employed.
They are adults and (if properly informed) it should be their call, right or wrong.

I'm certain many (if not most) ladies got benefits from starting at an agency: screening, security, more business due to a better training and marketing, can work very part-time with limited costs.
I saw girls struggling as independents because they paid too much for incalls, or lacked training, or became victims of sexual assault when they worked late nights without adequate screening.

It's not a zero-sum game. Good agencies can be profitable yet provide value to the girls as well.

Fully understood it's an individual choice whether to use agencies or not. Using your understanding of girls interests is much more respectable than selfishly maximizing the value for yourself.

 

[FreeG]

^ I agree with your comment on agencies. The ones in Vic really seem to strive to provide good, fair conditions for their women. Some of those women go on to become Indy, some don’t.

 

[sevenofnine]

I have wife kids a daughter and a son aunts had a mother she is passed on,

I remember thinking once if I don't treat the escort im seeing with respect and decency
how can I possibly relate to my daughter on a honest level a human level, when I don't see my escort as that.

so yes, we need to be responsible in this hobby. in a very human way,

I have seen the same lady for a dozen years now, we know each other trust each other,
let each other into our personal life to some extent,
yes her life is not perfect, nor is mine,
who;s the fuck is,

my reward, is,
not the fact that I have had sex with her hundreds of times, maybe thousand lost count.
its that were friends.

she texts me ever so often to get together,
in some ways, I think she texts me to get together more then me,

and its not about money, I pay her very little when it comes down to it now days,
she sure as hell doesn't need my money,
at times I have forgot to pay her, we got into a conversation and some wine, and I just forgot,

I texted her the next day and asked if I could come by with the money,
she took me and fucked me, and I still didn't pay her,

it is a nice relationship,
and that is my reward.

 

[ludovico123]

I am torn on this subject.
Being a capitalist by heart, I don't really believe in all that "conscious" talks specially in the West Coast.

Organic, fair trade, ocean wise, etc. etc.

Hasn't been too long since I started paying extra $ to purchase free range organic eggs, organic banana, and such - but I do noticed a better taste in them so that I started to justifying paying extra.

One of the recent review by an old member about an agency in Vancouver got me thing. I won't name the name but we all know which one I am talking about.
There's been much talk about the working condition, poor treatment to girls (and customers) and such.

I reviewed the OP's posting history and found that he actually frequent the said agency, which got me thinking ... he must know the history and current condition of the agency but what makes him to go back to check out every single new girls?

Then realize ... the agency gets new (green) girls and get them to do almost all services available (mostly I assume girls don't know what the standard vs. extra services are) and they get peanuts (there are reports that girls get as low as 30%).

But from a pooner's point of view, I don't think i can fault him that he wants to check out any of new/green girls at low price before those girls disappear or move to other agencies at higher price.

What would you do?
Fully knowing girls are being treated unfairly, would you still go to take advantages of these naive girls (because we are all dogs after all? or because someone else is going to take the advantages over these girls if not me first?)

We, as pooners, want maximum service at minimum price.
Now, is it funny to talk about "standard" or "consciousness" when pointing?
Or can we be more responsible pooners?

No judgements but would love to hear what you have to say.

Can you PM me this group/agency/location.
I am not interested in supporting this type of operation, but I don't know who or what you are talking about.
Also, where are you getting your information about how the ladies are being treated?

 

[felixthecat]

I am not interested in supporting this type of operation, but I don't know who or what you are talking about.
Also, where are you getting your information about how the ladies are being treated?

How do you know who is or is not a good employer? It's same as in any business I think.
For agencies who advertise individual SPs, turnover is a reliable indicator.

The worst place has a very high turnover of staff. Literally nobody stays there for long, and nobody ever joined that place if they worked somewhere else before. It speaks volumes, run away.
Good places are known to have employees who stayed there for long (say, two years - a long time in this industry). They are occasionally joined by somebody who worked at a different place before. Sometimes you'd even see a woman leaving the agency to work independently and then deciding to come back to the same place. You'll find many successful independents who started at good agencies, unlike bad places which make women hate the industry and quit completely.

The inside information about work conditions is limited. Short of getting it from women personally, you'd have to watch PERB reviews closely. SPs are not allowed to post unless they are paid advertisers, so unfortunately mods often have to delete posts by agency girls if they speak up. You might catch enough of those posts before they are deleted. Or women sometimes share with clients, who might mention it in reviews. A single story may be not reliable, but they build up to make a conclusion beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[ElsiDawson]

It might be patronizing to the women, whom you seem to deny the right of choosing to be employed vs. self-employed.
They are adults and (if properly informed) it should be their call, right or wrong.

I'm certain many (if not most) ladies got benefits from starting at an agency: screening, security, more business due to a better training and marketing, can work very part-time with limited costs.
I saw girls struggling as independents because they paid too much for incalls, or lacked training, or became victims of sexual assault when they worked late nights without adequate screening.

It's not a zero-sum game. Good agencies can be profitable yet provide value to the girls as well.

I flirt with the idea of getting into an agency sometimes because working independent can be a nightmare. There are days when I just want to go to work, do my job, get paid, and be done with it. The overhead that the agencies are making covers the costs that I pay to run this operation everyday: keeping an incall, running the phones, doing screening, scheduling, and admin. It's why short notice requests sting so much--if I'm on the phone, I'm probably doing eighty other things at once and trying to get a pile of bookings together on the same day to keep things efficient. I haven't done the numbers too much, but there are days when my hourly for the amount of work I do to shuttle laundry and go buy stock, track receipts and maintain ads is no better than my office job.

It's a trade off, though. I get to decide who I'd like to see, what kind of sessions I'd like to offer, the days and hours I work, the maximum number of hours I work in a day so I don't get burnt out... But it's my responsibility to make sure that I reinvest my money and time into my operation and keep this show on the road.

Ultimately, being with an agency (from what people have told me) is the same as being with any other employer. Some are good, some aren't, some take good care of their employees and establishment and others are in it for a quick buck. I had the same experiences when I was a bartender. I'm sure you all have had some parallel.

 

[John Snow]

I can't imagine being independent can be so freaking tough. Thanks for sharing.

 

[badbadboy]

I flirt with the idea of getting into an agency sometimes because working independent can be a nightmare. There are days when I just want to go to work, do my job, get paid, and be done with it. The overhead that the agencies are making covers the costs that I pay to run this operation everyday: keeping an incall, running the phones, doing screening, scheduling, and admin. It's why short notice requests sting so much--if I'm on the phone, I'm probably doing eighty other things at once and trying to get a pile of bookings together on the same day to keep things efficient. I haven't done the numbers too much, but there are days when my hourly for the amount of work I do to shuttle laundry and go buy stock, track receipts and maintain ads is no better than my office job.

It's a trade off, though. I get to decide who I'd like to see, what kind of sessions I'd like to offer, the days and hours I work, the maximum number of hours I work in a day so I don't get burnt out... But it's my responsibility to make sure that I reinvest my money and time into my operation and keep this show on the road.

Ultimately, being with an agency (from what people have told me) is the same as being with any other employer. Some are good, some aren't, some take good care of their employees and establishment and others are in it for a quick buck. I had the same experiences when I was a bartender. I'm sure you all have had some parallel.

It seems reasonable to offload some of the other duties running a business to focus on the reason for being there in the first place. If I need bookkeeping, I hire a bookkeeper and most other non focus related duties.

Incall cleaning, doing laundry, buying supplies, answering phones or screening and providing website updates are all things that could be subcontracted and still be independent. Or if being an employer isn't what someone wants, being part of an agency or being a sun-contracted SP are all things I've heard of from a few SP's.