Why are people in Vancouver complaining about rents and real estate prices?

[felixthecat]

They did. In the 1990s. And no one has built an apartment building since. Coincidence? I think not.

Simply untrue. The City of Vancouver has relaxed zoning restrictions on purpose built rentals. Instead of being restricted to four story construction, they are allowed to build six stories which are guaranteed rental for 60 years. There is already a few in my neighbourhood and three more proposed within a few blocks.

Rent controls in BC appeared in 1970s I believe. There was a Rentalsman and later a Rent Review Commission.

The point is valid, rent controls hurt the supply side. The City of Vancouver's arcane incentives for developers are too little. Meanwhile, other municipalities let apartment buildings disappear.

It is getting better with the upcoming BC law that will allow designated rental-only zoning.

 

[felixthecat]

The government should just ban foreign buyers and foreign capital and be done with it. If its good enough for Mainland China to do it, why dont we?

Local incomes are so detached from property prices its a bad joke.

The federal government are not very interested, unfortunately, until the problem is bigger than Vancouver and Toronto. They can lose votes if the property prices go down across the country, given the high percentage of homeowners.

One idea for the federal government is to stop promoting home ownership. People already want to own a home. Pushing them further is not doing anything good anymore, it's fueling prices, at the expense of the public.

Fun fact: of G20 countries, the highest home ownership rates are in China (90%) and Russia (84%). The lowest home ownership rates are in Germany (52%) and Switzerland (43%). Makes you think, which way would you want to go.

I'd like a stricter enforcement of the existing laws. CRA knew for decades about massive tax avoidance related to expensive properties. There should be a way to crosscheck property transactions with CRA data.
There can (and probably will) be more cooperation with other countries, like helping China to avoid illegal money flow to Canada.

 

[se7landrover97]

I heard Ozzie Jurock talking to Micheal Campbell on "Money Talks" and he said the average Government induced developers fees and costs add about $87,000 to the price of a condo. They are talking out of both sides of their mouths, oh we need affordable housing........yet they are responsible for jacking home prices thru the roof with fees and taxes. It's all bullshit seems they could really care less if people can afford to live here or not.

100% correct!! Not to mention the property taxes that goes up every year!! So annoying!!

 

[johnnydepth]

At the same time the "Government" should also step in and dictate real estate prices......nice theory but that is called Socialism.....and Socialism just does not work.The former country known as the USSR is a great example and more recently Greece is a better example and Venezuella is such an awesome ideal to copy.Funny how the ones that call for this type of thing are the ones at the bottom of the food chain in Canada as well as other countries.

SR

This isn't necessarily true. South Korea is a prime example of a country that functions very well with government intervention. They regulate large industry, large retail, transport subsidies, and wait for it.... real estate prices. As for your comment about the ones at the bottom of the food chain, it seems to indicate that you just don't care about people. When a city like Winnipeg has tent cities popping up we have a serious problem in this country. Food and shelter are basic necessities.

 

[se7landrover97]

The government should just ban foreign buyers and foreign capital and be done with it. If its good enough for Mainland China to do it, why dont we?

Local incomes are so detached from property prices its a bad joke.

And also, the Bank of Canada has imposed stress test for mortgage applicants which makes it almost impossible for local income earners to be approved. The government is part of the problem.

 

[felixthecat]

And also, the Bank of Canada has imposed stress test for mortgage applicants which makes it almost impossible for local income earners to be approved. The government is part of the problem.

I disagree. The stress test is a very responsible thing to do. It protects both the potential borrower from making the mistake of his life, and protects all the taxpayers (if things go bad, insurance has to be paid by CMHC which is a Crown corporation).

The debt level of Canadian households is already scary enough. If locals cannot pass the test, it means they cannot afford to buy now. Saving for a downpayment is a reasonable choice. It's a joke those 5% down mortgages are even allowed.

 

[Ms Erica Phoenix]

This isn't necessarily true. South Korea is a prime example of a country that functions very well with government intervention. They regulate large industry, large retail, transport subsidies, and wait for it.... real estate prices. As for your comment about the ones at the bottom of the food chain, it seems to indicate that you just don't care about people. When a city like Winnipeg has tent cities popping up we have a serious problem in this country. Food and shelter are basic necessities.

There is a large tent city now in Surrey...

 

[LM987]

I disagree. The stress test is a very responsible thing to do. It protects both the potential borrower from making the mistake of his life, and protects all the taxpayers (if things go bad, insurance has to be paid by CMHC which is a Crown corporation).

The debt level of Canadian households is already scary enough. If locals cannot pass the test, it means they cannot afford to buy now. Saving for a down payment is a reasonable choice. It's a joke those 5% down mortgages are even allowed.

Even with the stress test, I am still baffled by how much the banks will lend someone.
Yes, on paper, they can "afford" the mortgage, but not much else after that.
Just factoring the basics, groceries, phone, insurance, utilities, a vehicle or transit, property taxes, there is not a lot left over to do anything except exist in many cases.

I look at what the online stress test calculator shows I can "afford" to borrow. No way in hell would I want a mortgage payment that large.

I can live in a modest place and try to enjoy life. Life is too short to be strapped to a massive mortgage.
I feel bad for the kids trying to start out now.

 

[westwoody]

What kind of Social Justice Warrior shows such disdain for ordinary working families struggling to keep a roof over their heads?

 

[se7landrover97]

I disagree. The stress test is a very responsible thing to do. It protects both the potential borrower from making the mistake of his life, and protects all the taxpayers (if things go bad, insurance has to be paid by CMHC which is a Crown corporation).

The debt level of Canadian households is already scary enough. If locals cannot pass the test, it means they cannot afford to buy now. Saving for a downpayment is a reasonable choice. It's a joke those 5% down mortgages are even allowed.

I get where you're coming from. But who's buying property here now? Those who don't need a mortgage and can pay cash and out buying the locals.

 

[westwoody]

The debt level of Canadian households is already scary enough. If locals cannot pass the test, it means they cannot afford to buy now. Saving for a downpayment is a reasonable choice. It's a joke those 5% down mortgages are even allowed.

I was in Calgary in the early 80s. I saw many people lose their homes over the high interest rates. One worked for the Bank of Nova Scotia.

Now the same situation exists, despite lower rates. People are mortgaged to the hilt, and deep in debt. A minor increase in the prime could ruin thousands of people.

A lot of the problem are idiots though who constantly trade up their houses and cars and are perpetually in debt with nothing to show for it. Banks love those people.

 

[poonerboi]

^ Maybe... but I thought if one builds housing that can be officially classified as "affordable", you don't have to pay the same fees & taxes?

https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...2-rent-as-%93affordable%94-housing&highlight=

 

[poonerboi]

I disagree. The stress test is a very responsible thing to do. It protects both the potential borrower from making the mistake of his life, and protects all the taxpayers (if things go bad, insurance has to be paid by CMHC which is a Crown corporation).

The debt level of Canadian households is already scary enough. If locals cannot pass the test, it means they cannot afford to buy now. Saving for a downpayment is a reasonable choice. It's a joke those 5% down mortgages are even allowed.

Apparently they can't rent either. Even most basement suites in Surrey are handled by property management firms and if your earnings don't equal greater than 50% of the rent ,they won't rent to you.

 

[storm rider]

This isn't necessarily true. South Korea is a prime example of a country that functions very well with government intervention. They regulate large industry, large retail, transport subsidies, and wait for it.... real estate prices. As for your comment about the ones at the bottom of the food chain, it seems to indicate that you just don't care about people. When a city like Winnipeg has tent cities popping up we have a serious problem in this country. Food and shelter are basic necessities.

Yes food and shelter are necessities......and thats why people have JOBS....to pay for them.A swell as other things deemed as "necessities".

If you want it you work for it and work hard.Some have it easier than others and some have it harder but long story short if you want to get ahead you have to work for it.

My brother has sat his as on welfare in BC for 30+ years and he actually RESENTS that I own my home.His lazy attitude goes right back to his childhood.From when he was supposed to dry the dishes and instead he let the "air dry" in the rack or how he would follow me when I went snow shovelling after dinner in the winter and do 2 minutes of work and then knock on the door and collect the money whilst I did the work and after doing that 3 times he would go blow the money at the corner store and bugger off.

I have another wicked example as well....my friend's ex GF and he was lucky to scrape her off....last I heard she had a fucking BROOD of 6 kids and all of the BASTARDS as she would go to the bar and pick up a guy and get fucked and knocked up same as her mother did.She sits her ass on welfare with her 6 kids and is nothing but a parasite to Society.These mindsets are guided by one thing and that is Socialism.....take from the "haves" to give to the "have nots" with the latter never contributing to Society....just feeding off it like a leach.

SR

 

[storm rider]

I was in Calgary in the early 80s. I saw many people lose their homes over the high interest rates. One worked for the Bank of Nova Scotia.

Now the same situation exists, despite lower rates. People are mortgaged to the hilt, and deep in debt. A minor increase in the prime could ruin thousands of people.

A lot of the problem are idiots though who constantly trade up their houses and cars and are perpetually in debt with nothing to show for it. Banks love those people.

A slightly BIG detail you missed out on was the economic crash in Alberta that was caused by the National Energy Plan brought into law under Pierre Trudeau.Yes high interest rates are bad but they are a fuck of a lot worse when you suddenly dont have a job and that was what happened.Actually the NEP caused ripple effects right across Canada and currently the idiot drama teacher that is now our Prime Minister is inflicting NEP 2.0 in the form of a Carbon Tax....which is pretty fucked considering Canada produces 2% of world wide greenhouse gas emissions.

On the latter part of your statement I totally agree.There are a lot of really fucking stupid people in Canadian society that opt for instant gratification with no thought about what it will cost them down the line.From taking those 2 vacations a year as well as buying the newest applie I phone as soon as it comes out as well as say buying a boat/5th wheel as well as getting a new leased vehicle every couple of years.Combine that with living on thin margins as well as not getting serious about paying off mortgage debt or even worse taking equity out of the home because it has risen in value on paper but the debt owed has substantially reduced is pretty much financial suicide.

SR

 

[JoeSmith6]

It sad how some people in Vancouver are struggling financially. This is want pretty much what's happened in San Fran. Some people I know spend more than half of there pay check on rent. What is really needed is more rent controlled units to help the lower income people. Or better way to distribute the world's resource more equally.

California Joe
Social Justice Warrior

 

[Amuse0ne]

I moved out west over 20 years ago because this is where I wanted to be and it took me a year or so to come to terms with the reality of the housing prices. Will my kids be able to afford to live here probably not unless they work hard and build some equity. Does growing up here entitle you to the Canadian dream of owning your own home when so many people want to be here? I don't think it does with that said I'm likely not going to own any big boy toys and instead help them get into this market with a 5% gift DP. The San Francisco 2.0 doc on HBO is a wake up call and many of its citizens continue to be pushed out of that city and it's sad in a way but that's just the reality of that marketplace and growing up there doesn't mean you get to stay when it's such a desirable place to be.

 

[storm rider]

I moved out west over 20 years ago because this is where I wanted to be and it took me a year or so to come to terms with the reality of the housing prices. Will my kids be able to afford to live here probably not unless they work hard and build some equity. Does growing up here entitle you to the Canadian dream of owning your own home when so many people want to be here? I don't think it does with that said I'm likely not going to own any big boy toys and instead help them get into this market with a 5% gift DP. The San Francisco 2.0 doc on HBO is a wake up call and many of its citizens continue to be pushed out of that city and it's sad in a way but that's just the reality of that marketplace and growing up there doesn't mean you get to stay when it's such a desirable place to be.

Funny enough I read a news story a couple of weeks back about a retired couple in Vancouver.They bought their house in Kitsilano in 1972 for $40,000.They worked and paid it off and raised a family and brought up their kids in the house as well as their grandchildren.They live on CPP as well as OAS and GIS plus whatever retirement nest egg they built up.Their house is now valued at 4 MILLION and they have a $35,000 yearly tax bill and they are whining about it.The house has increased in value 100 fold and they dont like the fact that they have a heavy property tax bill.I sure wish I had that fucking problem.

I would sell the place and buy 10 acres of land in Costa Rica or Nicaragua and have a house custom built that could withstand a hurricane and still have 3.7 MILLION to retire on and to leave to their children via an inheritance.....nope they want their cake and to eat it as well and dont want to sell the house.

SR

 

[deathreborn]

Funny enough I read a news story a couple of weeks back about a retired couple in Vancouver.They bought their house in Kitsilano in 1972 for $40,000.They worked and paid it off and raised a family and brought up their kids in the house as well as their grandchildren.They live on CPP as well as OAS and GIS plus whatever retirement nest egg they built up.Their house is now valued at 4 MILLION and they have a $35,000 yearly tax bill and they are whining about it.The house has increased in value 100 fold and they dont like the fact that they have a heavy property tax bill.I sure wish I had that fucking problem.

I would sell the place and buy 10 acres of land in Costa Rica or Nicaragua and have a house custom built that could withstand a hurricane and still have 3.7 MILLION to retire on and to leave to their children via an inheritance.....nope they want their cake and to eat it as well and dont want to sell the house.

SR

well apparently old people are allowed to defer their property taxes and pay once the property is sold. so if they want to stay they could do that.

 

[storm rider]

well apparently old people are allowed to defer their property taxes and pay once the property is sold. so if they want to stay they could do that.

That is like a "reverse mortgage" and a very stupid course of action IMO.

Sell the house for 4 MILLION and bugger off to a better alternative and live like ROYALTY and STILL have a big wad of money to leave as an inheritance.

At $40,000 a year it does not take long to chip away at that 4 MILLION in equity.....even moreso if there is a property price crash......which I think is a certainty in Vancouver....tis just a matter of time combined with a couple of other things.

SR