United States withdraws from Iran Nuclear Deal

[thodisipagal]

Trump's pattern is unmistakable:

- Withdrew from Paris Climate Accord.
- Withdrew from Trans Pacific Partnership.
- Has threatened to withdraw from NAFTA
- Has now withdrawn from Iran Nuclear Deal, formally known as Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA).

Yesterday's announcement to withdraw from JCPOA has already become a thorn between the US and Europe, with President Macron of France going as far as to declare the deal is not dead. This augers a diplomatic confrontation with France and likely with Germany and Britain.

This is the era of volatile international politics, spurred by the penchant of one person to make one-sided, nationalistic and isolationist decisions that could give rise to much turmoil, if not wars.

 

[licks2nite]

Rudy Giuliani, lawyer to the president, said preemptively a few days ago that Donald Trump is committed to "regime change" in Iran.

 

[Damaged]

Iran wasn't honoring their side of the deal. It was a joke. Trump was right to withdraw. Seems peoples hate for Trump will make them disagree with any move he makes.

 

[badbadboy]

Iran wasn't honoring their side of the deal. It was a joke. Trump was right to withdraw.

I have done a lot of reading on this and can not see any evidence (other than Israel's unsubstantiated claims) to prove your point.

Please provide a link. Fox News excluded.

Both Saudi Arabia and Israel are enemies of Iran so having US withdraw from the pact is exactly what they want to happen.

Moderates in Europe disagree with the move saying it is not in accordance of inspections since 2015.

The JCPOA, agreed in Vienna in 2015, led to a rapid and drastic reduction in Iran’s nuclear programme. It reduced its stockpile of low-enriched uranium by 98% to just 300lbs, far below what would be required if it attempted to make enough fissile material for a single bomb.

Iran also took down about 13,000 of its centrifuges, leaving just over 5,000 of its oldest-model machines in place. It ceased all enrichment at its underground facility at Fordow, which – like other Iranian nuclear sites - was put under continuous international monitoring by the International Atomic Energy Agency. The IAEA had repeatedly confirmed that that Iran was in compliance with the restriction it had agreed to in 2015.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/08/iran-deal-trump-withdraw-us-latest-news-nuclear-agreement

 

[FreeG]

^ THAT I totally agree. I was dismayed at the decision too: it betrays some close allies in Europe and further alienates a rival to Israel & Saudi Arabia in the Middle east.

But Iran has been shown to be meddling in Syria (which doesn't help that cauldron cool down anytime soon) and from the get-go was considered too soft and likely ineffective in stopping Iranian nuclear capability. This will likely bolster US standing with Israel and maybe Saudi Arabia too. (not that either is super-important, in my opinion. No ill-will against Israel and their tough history, but how they've handled Palestine is nothing to brag about, while Saudi Arabia is another simmering cauldron of extremism...)

Ultimately, tho, I think peace comes out through economic opportunities and business - there are plenty of counter-examples, but as long as income is flowing into a country (from businesses, selling natural resources, etc), a country is less likely to cause troubles and interfere with others. One could argue Iran still meddles but let's be honest: the US is the biggest meddler of them all, so its hypocritical for the US to judge! A good example is Syria and ISIS - some pretty compelling evidence that ISIS started after a series of severe droughts decimated the economy in a region. With many folks ignored, there was a ripe resource for extremists to recruit. Sound familiar to the recent US election, just a little bit? If similar economic hardships affect Iran (and I can't think of ANY case where regime changes occurred due to embargo and the like), there'll just be more recruits for extremist groups and greater incentive for them to acquire nuclear capability to defend themselves.

 

[CrazedandAbused]

I have done a lot of reading on this and can not see any evidence (other than Israel's unsubstantiated claims) to prove your point.

Please provide a link. Fox News excluded.

Both Saudi Arabia and Israel are enemies of Iran so having US withdraw from the pact is exactly what they want to happen.

Moderates in Europe disagree with the move saying it is not in accordance of inspections since 2015.

The JCPOA, agreed in Vienna in 2015, led to a rapid and drastic reduction in Iran’s nuclear programme. It reduced its stockpile of low-enriched uranium by 98% to just 300lbs, far below what would be required if it attempted to make enough fissile material for a single bomb.

Iran also took down about 13,000 of its centrifuges, leaving just over 5,000 of its oldest-model machines in place. It ceased all enrichment at its underground facility at Fordow, which – like other Iranian nuclear sites - was put under continuous international monitoring by the International Atomic Energy Agency. The IAEA had repeatedly confirmed that that Iran was in compliance with the restriction it had agreed to in 2015.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/08/iran-deal-trump-withdraw-us-latest-news-nuclear-agreement

Moderates in Europe?

You're going to rely on them. Did we learn nothing from placating Hitler? Moderates. Jeez.

Iran was cheating. Everyone knows they're funding much of the terrorism in the region (ask anyone who spends any time there).

Don't let your knee-jerk Trump antipathy blind you to what a huge blunder Barack Obama made (just another of many). Time to put this genie back in the bottle...before it's too late.

Once they've got a bomb...like North Korea....God help us all.

European Moderates. 2 words that should scare the shit out of any clear thinking peace lover.

:hippie::flypig::yield:eace::behindsofa:

 

[FreeG]

I think your Hitler example is exactly what pulling out of this deal could lead to! Overly simplistic synopsis: Hitler rose to power as Germany was practically embarrassed and heavily taxed after WW1. The appeasement occurred after it was clear of his intentions in order to avoid further war. My fear is that the US will be putting Iran further into a situation like post-WW1 Germany, seeding the environment for a worse regime to take hold, not a better/kinder one.

No easy answers here, but the previous plan was better than the non-plan Trump and Bolton have to replace it!

 

[badbadboy]

Moderates in Europe?

You're going to rely on them. Did we learn nothing from placating Hitler? Moderates. Jeez.

Iran was cheating. Everyone knows they're funding much of the terrorism in the region (ask anyone who spends any time there).

Don't let your knee-jerk Trump antipathy blind you to what a huge blunder Barack Obama made (just another of many). Time to put this genie back in the bottle...before it's too late.

Once they've got a bomb...like North Korea....God help us all.

European Moderates. 2 words that should scare the shit out of any clear thinking peace lover.

:hippie::flypig::yield:eace::behindsofa:

Please provide your proof Iran was cheating. All inspections indicated otherwise.

No Breitbart or Fox News links.

 

[Damaged]

I have done a lot of reading on this and can not see any evidence (other than Israel's unsubstantiated claims) to prove your point.

Please provide a link. Fox News excluded.

Both Saudi Arabia and Israel are enemies of Iran so having US withdraw from the pact is exactly what they want to happen.

Moderates in Europe disagree with the move saying it is not in accordance of inspections since 2015.

The JCPOA, agreed in Vienna in 2015, led to a rapid and drastic reduction in Iran’s nuclear programme. It reduced its stockpile of low-enriched uranium by 98% to just 300lbs, far below what would be required if it attempted to make enough fissile material for a single bomb.

Iran also took down about 13,000 of its centrifuges, leaving just over 5,000 of its oldest-model machines in place. It ceased all enrichment at its underground facility at Fordow, which – like other Iranian nuclear sites - was put under continuous international monitoring by the International Atomic Energy Agency. The IAEA had repeatedly confirmed that that Iran was in compliance with the restriction it had agreed to in 2015.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/08/iran-deal-trump-withdraw-us-latest-news-nuclear-agreement

First major issue, Iran has 24 days to comply to any access request from IAEA. Do you not think that 24 days is a lot of time for Iran to hide whatever they were doing before granting the IAEA access to inspect?

Second the IAEA can request access to any Iranian facility if it has evidence of nuclear activities there. Hard to have evidence if you cannot gain access to it. Case in point:
"Iran is believed to have tested nuclear explosives at the Parchin military complex southeast of Tehran more than a decade ago, then blocked the IAEA from the site for three years while it bulldozed structures and paved over a large area with asphalt. Despite the renovations, inspectors found traces of manmade uranium there in 2015, consistent with nuclear-related work that Iran was required to disclose." IAEA still do not have access to the Parchin military complex.

Another interesting issue "Iran does not allow surveillance data to be transmitted directly back to IAEA headquarters..." Why not?

In my opinion the Deal was made to placate the masses and Iran is taking advantage of the holes in the agreement.

 

[licks2nite]

Regime change turned Iraq into a paradise.

The US tried regime change in Iran when they installed the Shah, thar worked out great too.

Re Trump: he couldn't find Iran on a map if his life depended on it. This is all for his imbecile supporters. He doesn't know anything or care about anything other than game shows and real estate swindles.

Iraq today is a shambles. Unseating Saddam who threatened his neighbours with weapons of mass destruction (whether Saddam actually had WMD or not is immaterial, Saddam was an international criminal that invaded Kuwait and left a rotten mess behind when forced to leave Kuwait and had to be believed that Saddam's threat was real) was as strategic a necessity as taking down any known thug waving a gun. As a tactical measure to destroy infrastructure throughout Iraq, both while and after unseating Saddam, that was not such an internationally acceptable idea.

 

[chilli]

Moderates in Europe?

You're going to rely on them. Did we learn nothing from placating Hitler? Moderates. Jeez.

Iran was cheating. Everyone knows they're funding much of the terrorism in the region (ask anyone who spends any time there).

Don't let your knee-jerk Trump antipathy blind you to what a huge blunder Barack Obama made (just another of many). Time to put this genie back in the bottle...before it's too late.

Once they've got a bomb...like North Korea....God help us all.

European Moderates. 2 words that should scare the shit out of any clear thinking peace lover.

:hippie::flypig::yield:☮:behindsofa:

Not one person has been able to provide proof that Iran was not complying with the agreement.

 

[Crookedmember]

The funniest part is how some people pretend Trump has read the agreement, has any idea what's in the agreement, and has a fucking clue what he's talking about.

The sad part is America's word is now worth about as much as a chip from Trump's casino.

The sick part is Trump's supporters can't explain how the world is better off and safer without the agreement that Trump knows fuck-all about.

 

[thodisipagal]

First major issue, Iran has 24 days to comply to any access request from IAEA. Do you not think that 24 days is a lot of time for Iran to hide whatever they were doing before granting the IAEA access to inspect?

Second the IAEA can request access to any Iranian facility if it has evidence of nuclear activities there. Hard to have evidence if you cannot gain access to it. Case in point:
"Iran is believed to have tested nuclear explosives at the Parchin military complex southeast of Tehran more than a decade ago, then blocked the IAEA from the site for three years while it bulldozed structures and paved over a large area with asphalt. Despite the renovations, inspectors found traces of manmade uranium there in 2015, consistent with nuclear-related work that Iran was required to disclose." IAEA still do not have access to the Parchin military complex.

Another interesting issue "Iran does not allow surveillance data to be transmitted directly back to IAEA headquarters..." Why not?

In my opinion the Deal was made to placate the masses and Iran is taking advantage of the holes in the agreement.

I think you just damaged your argument.

That was more than a decade ago -- long before Iran Nuclear Deal, when Iran was under economic sanction. That's what happens when there is no deal.

Welcome back to the post-Iran Nuclear Deal era of sanctions.

By exiting the deal, United States is pushing Iran back to nuclear age again and inciting hardliner mullahs to replace the moderates like foreign minister Mohammad Javad Zarif.

Expect more uranium U-235 enrichment centrifuges spinning in Iran again.

 

[Crookedmember]

First major issue, Iran has 24 days to comply to any access request from IAEA. Do you not think that 24 days is a lot of time for Iran to hide whatever they were doing before granting the IAEA access to inspect?

No. IAEA has immediate access to any site covered by the agreement. The "24 days to comply" applies to any other area of the country in which IAEA might have suspicions and was added to cover a loophole.

It's a complicated deal, and when Trump calls it the worst deal he's ever seen, we should keep in mind some of the deals that ignorant asshole has made.

 

[FreeG]

You quoted wikipedia and the LA Times.

Two things need clarification.
First, please define "nuclear explosive". What is that?
It is not a nuclear explosion, that would have been well documented and left definite evidence.
A "nuclear explosive" is a vague and meaningless term. It doesn't mean anything.
Second, there is no such thing as man made uranium.
Uranium is a naturally occurring element.
Do you know how long those isotopes from nuclear research last? Thousands of years. The traces could be from Iranians doing research in the 1970s.

If you want to use the findings of the IAEA inspectors you should quote their work directly.

The quote refer to a report by the IAEA on Iranian non compliance in 2002-2006.
The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action which Trump pulled out of was agreed upon on July 14, 2015.
How could Iran violate an agreement that would not exist until nine years in the future?

Your argument is invalid.

"nuclear explosive" - I'd cut him some slack on this one, WW. A minor typo does not an argument invalidate (nor does poor grammar, like mine!)

"man made uranium" - you're correct, BUT there are numerous isotopes of uranium in nature and isotope used in nuclear weapons is quite rare. The uranium in weapons and some nuclear reactors is highly enriched with this isotope (so that fission will occur), which can only be created with man-made equipment (centrifuges). So if inspectors found those isotopes in concentrations WAY above the natural %, its evidence of a massive enrichment effort.
A VERY interesting read is the STUXNET virus that was (supposedly...) inserted into Iran's centrifuges, causing them to slightly increase/vary in speed and fail, significantly delaying Iran's weapons programs. The centrifuges were enriching uranium, which I think Iran states was for their nuclear power program but was believed to be for weapons use. (most commercial reactors do not enrich uranium as much, accepting the lower fuel density and need to refuel more often for the lower fuel cost).

I hate to admit it, but even though I'm generally ALL for free press, I do feel like the STUXNET virus story damaged the US & Israel (if the story is true, which I think it is). Its pretty brilliant and once Iran discovered how it was done, they and anyone else could then better protect their equipment and also be far more wary of the US. The most brilliant espionage is that whose cause/source remains undiscovered.

 

[westwoody]

"nuclear explosive" - I'd cut him some slack on this one, WW. A minor typo

There is no such thing as a nuclear explosive.
There were no nuclear explosions.
It is at best an error, at worst a lie.
(I do cut the poster "damaged" slack because he relied on poor sources)

"man made uranium" - you're correct, BUT there are numerous isotopes of uranium in nature and isotope used in nuclear weapons is quite rare

The point is that the enrichment took place a decade before the accord was signed. The IAEA report was on events in 2002-2006.
He argues that finding the uranium isotope is proof of Iran cheating on the agreement.
The isotope was found in or before 2006.
How could that violate an agreement signed in 2015?

 

[80watts]

Lets look at this problem from 2 different views.

World view: We all live on this planet and with 7 billion people. We must all learn to share and get along.

American view: Keep the status quo, (rich getting richer and the poor Poorer). Hand out tidbits here and there.


The only way to make middle class Americans make "America Great again" is to rid the world of the global economy where for the past 40 years American companies have been going overseas to get the cheap labour. Isolationist view from the religious right. We don't want anything to do with those people over there.

In the American fight to rid the world of communism (who they label as corrupt) they have been supporting dictators throughout the world, who all have ultimately turned on them. So the Americans for the past 30 or so years have been doing raids, bombings etc. No wonder most of the 3 rd world hates them.

Iran was a democratic and open society before the US put the Shah of Iran on the throne in the 40/50s. The Iranian revolution in 1979 was due to the Shah of Iran purges on his own people, it was a religious revolution due to the fact that all political moderates had been silenced by the Shah's secret police. After the revolution, women had to wear headdress to cover their faces, when in fact they were allowed to show their faces freely before. People don't start revolutions because they are happy...

The Americans are scared of Muslims. Take history as an example.. The Crusades from Europe went to the Holy Land, for 300 years they basically had their way. Then the Muslims started to fight back. They took all of Northern Africa and Spain in the West, Middle East, Turkey and crossed over into SE Europe. Only the plague and lucky battle in Spain, and the appearance of the Golden Horde stopped them. They converted every one by the sword. Convert or die. Now give them nuclear weapons and the hatred that they feel towards the states.

 

[masterblaster]

Lets look at this problem from 2 different views.

World view: We all live on this planet and with 7 billion people. We must all learn to share and get along.

American view: Keep the status quo, (rich getting richer and the poor Poorer). Hand out tidbits here and there.


The only way to make middle class Americans make "America Great again" is to rid the world of the global economy where for the past 40 years American companies have been going overseas to get the cheap labour. Isolationist view from the religious right. We don't want anything to do with those people over there.

In the American fight to rid the world of communism (who they label as corrupt) they have been supporting dictators throughout the world, who all have ultimately turned on them. So the Americans for the past 30 or so years have been doing raids, bombings etc. No wonder most of the 3 rd world hates them.

Iran was a democratic and open society before the US put the Shaw of Iran on the throne in the 40/50s. The Iranian revolution in 1979 was due to the Shaw of Iran purges on his own people, it was a religious revolution due to the fact that all political moderates had been silenced by the Shaw's secret police. After the revolution, women had to wear headdress to cover their faces, when in fact they were allowed to show their faces freely before. People don't start revolutions because they are happy...

The Americans are scared of Muslims. Take history as an example.. The Crusades from Europe went to the Holy Land, for 300 years they basically had their way. Then the Muslims started to fight back. They took all of Northern Africa and Spain in the West, Middle East, Turkey and crossed over into SE Europe. Only the plague and lucky battle in Spain, and the appearance of the Golden Horde stopped them. They converted every one by the sword. Convert or die. Now give them nuclear weapons and the hatred that they feel towards the states.

It's actually spelled Shah just to keep the record straight.

 

[Mrmotorscooter]

Iran is threatening to release names of those who took bribes to make that deal happen if they now get sanctioned.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...-officials-who-took-bribes-to-pass-nuke-deal/

 

[badbadboy]

Iran is threatening to release names of those who took bribes to make that deal happen if they now get sanctioned.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...-officials-who-took-bribes-to-pass-nuke-deal/

Did you check the source of the 'report'?

They are a frequent source for Hannity on Fox etc.

Even still, if there is any truth to the story it will be interesting.