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Should Agencies, pooners, etc carry Naloxone Kits

johnsmit

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May 4, 2013
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I am aware of alcohol poisoning deaths..in fact back in my murder thread I mentioned about the guy 20 yrs ago that kill a number of native women by giving them so much alcohol that they died of alcohol piosioning.

I have delte with alcohol addiction and pain killer addition in my family...and allso seen how it has effected the girl I know in this business.

I have never thought anyone with an addiction problem is disposable no matter where they are in society.

They all have lives that were at one time more then just revolving around drugs.And many have family that love them and try to help or don't know how to help.

But you can't help them if they don't want help and that is where the problem lies in treating any addiction
It is only treatable and possiable when the addict says
I need help and I want to change..
But then it the long wait to get into a program which many just can't wait that long before going back to using drugs, because that was easier.
 
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ReedRothchild

Okanagon
Apr 19, 2015
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addiction is a symptom of trauma....a person who OD's over and over with total disregard for their own life...is engaging is self harm...another symptom of trauma....

blaming people for their symptoms is not productive, saying...too bad for them...shows no compassion for what is a complex and difficult injury to treat...yes injury...emotional injuries....

their lives are no less valuable than a person in a car accident ....and if the government would invest in treatment we wouldn't be in this situation now....this crisis is a direct result of complacency like yours about the lives of the people affected.

they are not lost causes who get what they deserve, they are people with families and people who love them.

they need help, they don't need to be cast away as not worthy of support
Thank you. I wish more people could see the situation with the same clarity. It's not somebody else's problem. We live in a society. As such, it's all of our problem.

I come in contact with a large number of individuals struggling with substance abuse. Some I like, some I don't. Some I respect, some I don't. Some I could be friends with, some I couldn't. So really, no different than any other segment of society I might be in contact with.

My point is that sweeping generalizations and stereotypes, while a convenient narrative, are rarely correct and almost always serve no positive outcome
 
W

Warl0ck

If the BC government FUNDED treatment options, recovery houses, & detox beds that were available NOW (not six weeks from now IF you can stay clean that long) first responders wouldn't be so overburdened. Private treatment programs like Edgewood or can cost upwards of $30,000. Think this is an exaggeration? Have a look. Do the math. https://www.sunshinecoasthealthcentre.ca/fee-schedule/ Now if you're a big wheel with terrific benefits, you can probably apply to your EHB plan to get covered. Hell, if I'd pretended that I had relapsed into alcoholism when I was struggling with acute depression & anxiety in 2009, my union would have stood behind me, sent me off to Edgewood, and fought to keep my job! (Regular marijuana use didn't count, apparently...) If you don't have those benefits & a whack of cash behind you, you're shit out of luck.
I've always found it interesting that they've always got money for a prison cell but not for rehab. I was a volunteer mentor for drug addicts a couple years back. You get to see the effects of addiction up front and personal. One thing I did notice that every story had some type of traumatic event in it. It was very often physical or sexual violence in the home or some "boyfriend" who could manipulate his girlfriend into supporting him (and her getting into the sex trade). I've seen dope sickness up front and have a better appreciation for how powerful drug addiction is. When the addict is ready to get off drugs it has to happen now and you need to get them out of their old life.

I don't use drugs (don't even smoke weed) so it all gave me insight into a world that was very far away from me. I guess the thing that I learned most in life was that I'm fucking lucky to have such a normal life & that there are so many broken people. It gave me patience too so I'd put in those chaos times in my life into perspective.
 

escapefromstress

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Dec 18, 2014
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Do you ever stop to think that addicts keep OD'ing because they want to die?

Some people don't want to be resuscitated. I stand by my comment that if one guy deliberately OD's 4 times in one day, let him go.

I've been suicidal. I know how it feels not to want to be on planet earth anymore, and no amount of counseling would have made me feel different.
 

jgg

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No body wants to die. Unfortunately, they are dealt a life that makes death seem better.
 

Horn_dawg

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Mar 19, 2006
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Do you ever stop to think that addicts keep OD'ing because they want to die?

Some people don't want to be resuscitated. I stand by my comment that if one guy deliberately OD's 4 times in one day, let him go.

I've been suicidal. I know how it feels not to want to be on planet earth anymore, and no amount of counseling would have made me feel different.
I am sorry you felt suicidal in the past. I am glad you did not end up killing yourself, and I hope that you feel your life is worth living now.
 

Cock Throppled

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Oct 1, 2003
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A good read on mental illness and alcohol addiction is The Crazy Game by Clint Malarchuk, former NHL goalie. Wanting to die can have many easons, some logical, some not.

Addicts don't have much choice, but. at this time, given the risk of dying, if you're a casual user of drugs you're just not being very bright.
 

escapefromstress

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Was wondering the other day how many of the fentanyl OD's were attempted suicides.

I'd hope that i had that option if i were terminal & in extreme hellish pain.
And you can be in extreme hellish emotional pain, not just physical pain. I think I heard they're doing research on allowing legal assisted death for people with incurable mental illness in some country overseas. Can't remember which one.
 

jgg

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Not true. Lots of people really do want to die for many different reasons. If you haven't experienced it yourself, you can't speak for those who have.
escapefromstress, I am happy that you were able to get the help you needed.

With all respect efs, nobody starts out wanting to die. The state of their lives and the conditions of life make death seem their only insufferable option.

You make an honest statement that if you haven't experienced it, you can't speak for others. We don't know the hell of some peoples lives but there is nothing worse than outliving a child.
 

escapefromstress

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With all respect efs, nobody starts out wanting to die. The state of their lives and the conditions of life make death seem their only insufferable option.
Again I disagree. People with clinical depression have a chemical imbalance in their brains. Their brains secrete too much of some chemicals and not enough of others.

I wasn't diagnosed until later in life, but I suffered from clinical depression since birth. My earliest childhood memories are of wanting to die, and I'm not aware of any abuse or crisis I experienced that would have caused me to feel that way.

Emotional pain is hard to describe, but it's just as chronic, excruciating, overwhelming and debilitating as any physical pain I've been in.
 

lenny

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May 20, 2004
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And you can be in extreme hellish emotional pain, not just physical pain. I think I heard they're doing research on allowing legal assisted death for people with incurable mental illness in some country overseas. Can't remember which one.
Absolutely. I don't doubt that nightmarish pain of the soul can be as bad as horrific physical pain.
 

jgg

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Emotional pain is hard to describe, but it's just as chronic, excruciating, overwhelming and debilitating as any physical pain I've been in.
This we can agree on.
 

jgg

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lenny

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"The ministry says carfentanil can be 100 times more toxic than fentanyl, the drug at the root of the province's overdose crisis."

http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/b-c-drug-users-test-positive-for-carfentanil-1.3267153

"VICTORIA -- The appearance of the deadly opioid carfentanil may explain the dramatic spike in overdoses in British Columbia, despite efforts to slow the carnage, the provincial health officer says.

Dr. Perry Kendall said as the number of overdose deaths climbed to record levels in November and December, officials suspected the synthetic drug normally used as a tranquilizer on large animals like elephants was to blame.

B.C.'s Health Ministry announced Wednesday a small number of urine tests conducted over a two-week period at drug treatment facilities across Metro Vancouver tested positive for carfentanil.

"It's not good news, it's confirmation of what we had feared," Kendall says. "It means the drug supply has become considerably more dangerous than it was beforehand."

The ministry says carfentanil can be 100 times more toxic than fentanyl, the drug at the root of the province's overdose crisis.

The tests were done on 1,766 urine samples. Fifty-seven were positive for carfentanil.

Kendall said because the samples were collected from people already in treatment, the numbers may not be representative of what's happening on the streets.

"It may under-represent the actual extent to which carfentanil is present," he said.

There is no reliable way for people to know if carfentanil is laced with other illicit drugs, and the Health Ministry is urging users to follow harm-reduction measures, such as having someone sober present and carrying the opioid antidote naloxone.

Kendall said overdose prevention sites that have been set up in a number of cities become even more important in light of the increased risks.

He also urged occasional drug users who may experiment with substances like ecstasy to steer clear.

"You don't know what you're getting. It's much more dangerous," he said.

The drug testing is part of surveillance measures related to a public health emergency declared last April. There were 914 illicit drug overdoses last year in B.C., the highest number on record.

Kendall said the presence of carfentanil doesn't change the way the province has responded to the crisis, but it does make matters more urgent.

Officials are working to create more options for treatment and make it easier to access, he said.

"It's a little hard to imagine how we could be running any faster, to be honest, but we have to try."

The ministry said it is getting weekly surveillance reports on carfentanil and police are giving priority to investigations into drug trafficking because of the overdose crisis.

The RCMP and China's ministry of public security are working together to disrupt the supply of illegal carfentanil, fentanyl and other opioids coming into Canada.

British Columbia's toxicology centre, which provides forensic analysis on overdose fatalities to the coroner, recently bought new instruments that are more sensitive and accurate in testing for carfentanil and other opioids, and regular testing is expected to begin next month.

The ministry said carfentanil was already found at the site of one overdose fatality in the province, but results are still pending on whether it was the cause of the death.

The total number of fentanyl-related overdose deaths for 2016 is expected to be updated in March, however, previous data shows the substance was detected in about 60 per cent of deaths between January and October."

http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/b-c-drug-users-test-positive-for-carfentanil-1.3267153
 

escapefromstress

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B.C.'s Health Ministry announced Wednesday a small number of urine tests conducted over a two-week period at drug treatment facilities across Metro Vancouver tested positive for carfentanil.

"It's not good news, it's confirmation of what we had feared," Kendall says. "It means the drug supply has become considerably more dangerous than it was beforehand."

The tests were done on 1,766 urine samples. Fifty-seven were positive for carfentanil.

Kendall said because the samples were collected from people already in treatment, the numbers may not be representative of what's happening on the streets.

"It may under-represent the actual extent to which carfentanil is present," he said.

British Columbia's toxicology centre, which provides forensic analysis on overdose fatalities to the coroner, recently bought new instruments that are more sensitive and accurate in testing for carfentanil and other opioids, and regular testing is expected to begin next month.

The ministry said carfentanil was already found at the site of one overdose fatality in the province, but results are still pending on whether it was the cause of the death.
This is very scary.
 

Damaged

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Marijuana could contain fentanyl: RCMP
February 15, 2017

When asked if fentanyl is the now biggest reason to fear recreational drugs, Valemount RCMP Officer, Chris Gallant said, “To answer the question simply, yes.”

The Valemount Secondary School hosted a fentanyl forum to educate residents on what fentanyl is, what an overdose looks like and how to reverse the effects of an overdose. A similar presentation was given to students earlier in the day.

Principal Dan Kenkel emceed the forum and the panel consisted of the B.C. Ambulance Service’s (BCAS), Dakota Stone, B.C. Emergency Health Services’ (BCEHS) Community Paramedic, Jasmin Gasser, Northern Health Mental Health and Addictions Counselor, Heather Whalen, Northern Health Community Health Nurse, Bernita Nesjan, and RCMP Officer, Chris Gallant.

Fentanyl is a man-made synthetic opioid, which means the drug is made in a lab, but engages the same receptors in the brain as other significant painkillers such as oxycodone, morphine and heroine. RCMP says much of the fentanyl in Canada is coming from unregulated labs in China.

Over the last year, traces of fentanyl have been found in a variety of street drugs including cocaine, MDMA (ecstasy), oxycontin and heroin, Gallant said, but he added RCMP now have reason to believe pot isn’t safe either.

“I’ve heard people say, ‘Oh well, it is just pot’,” said Gallant.

In November, Vancouver Police Department Constable, Brian Monague, told the CBC that VPD had not seized fentanyl-laced marijuana, though he noted he could not speak for other police departments.

In the same month, the RCMP issued a press release stating the organization had reason to believe “that there is marijuana available for sale in Masset that is laced with fentanyl.”

Masset, B.C. is located on Graham Island — one of the 150 islands making up the archipelago of Haida Gwaii.

However, RCMP Media Relations Officer, Madonna Saunderson, said RCMP has not actually seized fentanyl-laced marijuana to date. Saunderson would not elaborate as to what reason the RCMP believes fentanyl-laced pot is for sale is Masset.

When asked if fentanyl is the now biggest reason to fear recreational drugs, Valemount RCMP Officer, Chris Gallant said, “To answer the question simply, yes.”

The problem with fentanyl is many people are recreationally ingesting drugs like ecstasy, MDMA, cocaine, heroine or oxycodone, all of which have the potential to be laced or cut with fentanyl unbeknownst to the user.

Dosage is an issue, as most drug users have no way of knowing how much fentanyl they’re ingesting.

The drug — which is 50 to 100 times stronger than heroin or morphine — has been an epidemic sweeping much of the lower mainland, as well as many other major Canadian centres.

Fentanyl started popping up in 2015 but became a true crisis 2016, as there were roughly 800 overdose deaths reported in the province by year’s end — most of which were in the lower mainland.

“Overdose calls used to be the scariest calls to take because usually there is more going on than just an overdose,” said Dakota Stone, who was born in Valemount, but now works in the lower mainland as a dispatcher in a B.C. Ambulance Service (BCAS) Dispatch Operations Center.

Stone says the patient’s environment is often chaotic. “Often there are other people in the room who are also high on drugs, yelling at their friend, but yelling won’t wake them up,” he said.

There has since been one confirmed fentanyl overdose in Valemount, and the person fully recovered, according to RCMP.

“We don’t have a drug problem in Valemount,” said RCMP Officer Gallant. “But drugs do exist here,” he said, noting that because Valemount is on a major highway corridor, some drugs stay in town while others don’t.

Though a scary topic, the fentanyl forum isn’t intended to instill fear in the community, Kenkel says, but rather to be proactive in educating the community on what fentanyl is, what an overdose looks like, and how to reverse the effects.

Naloxone kits reverse the effects of fentanyl and other opioids, and are now carried by all first responders in the province.

Local businesses have asked about having naloxone kits on-hand.

“It’s definitely the direction we want to be heading,” says Kenkel.

http://www.therockymountaingoat.com/2017/02/marijuana-could-contain-fentanyl-rcmp/
So this article is full of "could contain" or "reason to believe" but basically there hasn't been any positive proof of Fentanyl laced in pot. Still people parrot this as if it was fact.
 

westwoody

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Jun 10, 2004
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I think fentanyl would burn up in a joint.
On the other hand joints with speed or coke were popular.
Waiting for more info.
 
W

Warl0ck

So this article is full of "could contain" or "reason to believe" but basically there hasn't been any positive proof of Fentanyl laced in pot. Still people parrot this as if it was fact.
There are suspicions and I know of one person personally who felt they smoked some fentanyl laced weed. They're familiar with the effects of opiates. I can't speak personally about it because I don't smoke weed and use no drugs. I can see weaker and low quality having fentanyl added to give it the "boom" factor when you smoke it.

It's rather difficult to ascertain if pot contains fentanyl. Assuming the user doesn't OD they're not going to show up on a medical record. I find it hard to imagine it's not. The MO of a drug dealer (whether big pharma or a dude on the block) is about addiction and frequent usage. That's how they keep up a regular income stream.
 
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