We are discussing here about the 15% transfer tax and I made an example of my home equity because that is my opinion. Look, I do not want to be rude or disrespectful but please DO NOT insinuate that I am not EARNING my retirement. You don't know who I am, where I come from, what I have achieved in my life time and what I have contributed and the sacrifices I made to this country. You can say whatever you want about the 15% issues and argue with me about it, but don't touch on something you don't know about me.
15% tax on foreign home buyers
- Thread starter Ray
- Start date
I'm pretty sure you said that you were "dependent on the equity in your home for your retirement", which doesn't just insinuate that you did not "earn" your retirement, but clearly implies that you haven't earned your retirement if it were not for skyrocketing real estate prices from foreign money. You made a speculation play based on unsound economic logic and now there's a real good possibility it might not work out for you. Cashing in on speculation is not "earning".We are discussing here about the 15% transfer tax and I made an example of my home equity because that is my opinion. Look, I do not want to be rude or disrespectful but please DO NOT insinuate that I am not EARNING my retirement. You don't know who I am, where I come from, what I have achieved in my life time and what I have contributed and the sacrifices I made to this country. You can say whatever you want about the 15% issues and argue with me about it, but don't touch on something you don't know about me.
Yep. You did say that. So you bought a lottery ticket and hoped that this would get you to the end instead of working and saving your money the old fashioned way. I don't need to know anything about you to understand exactly what you are saying.And I am dependant of the equity of my home for my retirement. Something that probably you do not understand maybe because you are rich man.
Unless you're saying that you have already "earned" your retirement and that your "equity" is gravy for you, in which case then stop the bitching and whining because your lottery ticket might not cash out for you.
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westcoast555
I'd be willing to bet it's what 80% of what people want. The government didn't bring in the tax to placate a minority. They did it because there was a groundswell of outrage at a ludicrously over-priced market that was destroying the local housing availability. And it in no way follows that mortgages and loans will default just because foreign non-resident purchases are taxed.Yes, you are correct in what you said. But remember 70% of Canadians are property owners who have mortgages and loans from banks and when the government comes in and start changing the rules in the middle of the ball game because 30% of the people wants it is very dangerous. If those mortgages and loan defaults then we have a big problem. Government can probably make restrictions like what Australia did, only allowing foreign buyers to purchase new build houses, etc. Let them come in and buy the new house here and create more jobs. Anyway, they can afford it. Let progress continue and allow what you have to flourish. 15% transfer tax is not the answer, thats all I am trying to say.
Allowing the market to be increasingly propped up by foreign speculation would be what makes it susceptible to a big crash anyway. Yeah some people will lose some equity but we're talking about crazy increases that make no sense if they have owned for a while they will be nowhere near "under water".
Again, I think that the housing stock of a whole community should be insulated to the vagaries of international speculation - especially when it comes from a particular area known to be laundering ill-gotten wealth.
I agreed 100% with on all you said totally! We are on the same boat! I just don't agree with the 15%! There are other far safer and more effective ways of doing this. This has been my point from the very beginning.I'd be willing to bet it's what 80% of what people want. The government didn't bring in the tax to placate a minority. They did it because there was a groundswell of outrage at a ludicrously over-priced market that was destroying the local housing availability. And it in no way follows that mortgages and loans will default just because foreign non-resident purchases are taxed.
Allowing the market to be increasingly propped up by foreign speculation would be what makes it susceptible to a big crash anyway. Yeah some people will lose some equity but we're talking about crazy increases that make no sense if they have owned for a while they will be nowhere near "under water".
Again, I think that the housing stock of a whole community should be insulated to the vagaries of international speculation - especially when it comes from a particular area known to be laundering ill-gotten wealth.
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westcoast555
Ok so what do you suggest? I know a tax might piss some people off... and a few residents probably got caught up in the implementation but why is a tax "unsafe"?I agreed 100% with on all you said totally! We are on the same boat! I just don't agree with the 15%! There are other far safer and more effective ways of doing this. This has been my point from the very beginning.
I do not believe that the 15% will ever correct the real estate prizes. The people that you are referring too, and I know this for a fact, are already in the process of setting up corporations and the shares are being listed if they have not yet already done so on a Canadian stock exchange. You know what that means, right? In due time they will be exempted from this 15% transfer tax. They will continue to upset the market at the expense of progress and development and erode what we work so hard for. Without foreign investment and we will not last. Oil prices are already crumbling down... What the government should have done is maybe restrict the foreign buyers to certain type of properties like what Australia did, only new ones. Allow them to only buy vacant lot (and there are many) for development, zone some area only for them. Or maybe they should not asses the value of our properties by comparable. This value is always the median of realtors when they list properties. The increase in the assessed value is one key factors that affect the cost of real estate. They should asses it instead for what it is really worth rather then how much your neighbours sold theirs thus relief some tax burden for property owners. Or better increase the annual property tax of foreign owners.Ok so what do you suggest? I know a tax might piss some people off... and a few residents probably got caught up in the implementation but why is a tax "unsafe"?
Let them still come in with their money. Channel these funds to infustraction and job creations. Remember Yaletown/Vancouver a few decades ago? Not to mention Richmond, Burnaby and Coquitlam. No body wants it. It was foreign investment that transformed it to what it is today. Look at the development there? How many jobs where created and are still being created. The money it has generated for the government to fund the schools giving teachers jobs, our health care program, child care benefits, retirement funds and others too many to mention. The 15% is not the answer! It won't protect you or me or our children. And for the legitimate foreign investors, this 15% are scaring them off specially on the way it was done. 555, thats just me, man.
All land is not owned by the Crown. In BC, 94% of land (of which 2% is water) is provincial Crown land and 1% federal Crown land. Remaining 5% is private land (which is what private individuals like you and your SP buy and sell).If you were solely depending on out of control, skyrocketing real estate prices to fund your retirement - which would be at the expense of your fellow Canadian have-nots and future generations of Canadians - instead of actually EARNING your retirement, then you made a big mistake.
Our country belongs to all Canadians (all land is owned by the crown which at the end of the day is supposed to represent all Canadians as opposed to foreigners) - not to just a subset of you that can profit from it at the expense of the rest of everyone else.
BTW, just for some perspective -- all land in China is owned by the state. Private individuals like your Chinese cousins and Chinese SPs in Beijing can just lease them for a maximum of 99 years.All land is not owned by the Crown. In BC, 94% of land (of which 2% is water) is provincial Crown land and 1% federal Crown land. Remaining 5% is private land (which is what private individuals like you and your SP buy and sell).
Actually I believe all Canadian land was crown land and still is , other then the land that in some sense has been giving back to the first nations.
As for the occupation and use of most land, it was through land grants from the crown.either as grants for townships,or large parcels to individuals to develop or supply services like the CPR and Hudson Bay company.
Other lands were granted in the home stead act and the person had to make improvements to the land to keep it.
When it come to owning the land, the crown still retains ownership but you own the improvements and that is what is basicly being sold the appreciated value of your improvements. Now when then buy property and tare down the buildings then there is a presumed expectation of replacing it with an improvement of greater equal or greater value..
At any time the crown , in the former of a local , provincial or federal authority , can expropriation your land and paybyou market value of your improvements. The crown owns it in pertuity and we are just granted the right to uses it through contract and paying the allocated fees and taxes which may accure and be deemed appropriate.
When it comes down to it granting land back to the first nations ,that is totally contrary to the cultural and belief..
They do not beleave they can own the land.At lease they did not use to believe they could. Now they are playing the white man's game. As a nation with in a nation I guess they can retain controls over Thier lands , but ultimately it is the larger nation and the crown that controls the out come of it use.
As for the occupation and use of most land, it was through land grants from the crown.either as grants for townships,or large parcels to individuals to develop or supply services like the CPR and Hudson Bay company.
Other lands were granted in the home stead act and the person had to make improvements to the land to keep it.
When it come to owning the land, the crown still retains ownership but you own the improvements and that is what is basicly being sold the appreciated value of your improvements. Now when then buy property and tare down the buildings then there is a presumed expectation of replacing it with an improvement of greater equal or greater value..
At any time the crown , in the former of a local , provincial or federal authority , can expropriation your land and paybyou market value of your improvements. The crown owns it in pertuity and we are just granted the right to uses it through contract and paying the allocated fees and taxes which may accure and be deemed appropriate.
When it comes down to it granting land back to the first nations ,that is totally contrary to the cultural and belief..
They do not beleave they can own the land.At lease they did not use to believe they could. Now they are playing the white man's game. As a nation with in a nation I guess they can retain controls over Thier lands , but ultimately it is the larger nation and the crown that controls the out come of it use.
Scaring them off? :clap2::clap2:The 15% is not the answer! It won't protect you or me or our children. And for the legitimate foreign investors, this 15% are scaring them off specially on the way it was done. 555, thats just me, man.
If it really is scaring them then they are cheap and for the rest of us we should up with 20-25% yearly price increases? Yeah right.
I only read some of the replies cuz theres sooo much lol
But what i think might happen is with new tax market may shrink and they are looking at 10 to 15 % decrease in prices. So when the price goes down by 15% or maybe more. Ppl can just pay the tax and buy the house!! Lol also to some of super riches 15% tax would not mean much. They are trying to laundry their money out of their country. Anyways market will stabilize but eventually it will go up i think
But what i think might happen is with new tax market may shrink and they are looking at 10 to 15 % decrease in prices. So when the price goes down by 15% or maybe more. Ppl can just pay the tax and buy the house!! Lol also to some of super riches 15% tax would not mean much. They are trying to laundry their money out of their country. Anyways market will stabilize but eventually it will go up i think
The 5% land in BC that is owned by private individuals and corporations are not owned by the Crown. Whoever holds the title is the land owner.Actually I believe all Canadian land was crown land and still is , other then the land that in some sense has been giving back to the first nations.
As for the occupation and use of most land, it was through land grants from the crown.either as grants for townships,or large parcels to individuals to develop or supply services like the CPR and Hudson Bay company.
Other lands were granted in the home stead act and the person had to make improvements to the land to keep it.
When it come to owning the land, the crown still retains ownership but you own the improvements and that is what is basicly being sold the appreciated value of your improvements. Now when then buy property and tare down the buildings then there is a presumed expectation of replacing it with an improvement of greater equal or greater value..
At any time the crown , in the former of a local , provincial or federal authority , can expropriation your land and paybyou market value of your improvements. The crown owns it in pertuity and we are just granted the right to uses it through contract and paying the allocated fees and taxes which may accure and be deemed appropriate.
When it comes down to it granting land back to the first nations ,that is totally contrary to the cultural and belief..
They do not beleave they can own the land.At lease they did not use to believe they could. Now they are playing the white man's game. As a nation with in a nation I guess they can retain controls over Thier lands , but ultimately it is the larger nation and the crown that controls the out come of it use.
All the First Nations reserves are Crown land, except those that have been ceded to First Nations through treaty (only four modern treaties have come into effect; others are still in negotiations).
What you are describing is what they have in China, not in Canada. Canada, United States and all western liberal democracies with free market economy strictly respect and protect private property.
Bottom line -- private lands that belong to your favorite SP do not belong to the Crown.
Under Canadian law all lands in Canada are owned 100% by the Queen which owns absolute ownership (ie. the Crown) What you are referring to as "private" land ownership is not actually ownership of land, but rather those private persons own a bundle of rights with respect to the land (called land tenure) - subject to the sovereign power of the Crown.All land is not owned by the Crown. In BC, 94% of land (of which 2% is water) is provincial Crown land and 1% federal Crown land. Remaining 5% is private land (which is what private individuals like you and your SP buy and sell).
If the Crown wants to take "your" freehold land (which actually isn't yours - even though you've paid for it, and you might have it registered in your name) the Crown can take it if it pleases. That land ultimately belongs to the people - not you. You just are holding a bundle of rights at this moment.
Edit - all lands are owned by the Crown subject to Aboriginal title which was not extinguished by the arrival of the Europeans of course. I also understand that there was a section in southern Quebec that was exempted by the Royal Proclamation of 1763 as well.
There has probably been enough written on this thread but one more thought to add which I have not seen noted is that the percentage of the population renting as opposed to owning has grown significantly over the last several decades so there is a large pool of potential buyers for a place to call home. This is probably a larger part of the demand side than anything else according to people in the mortgage industry hence the continuing upward pressure on prices. There are good economic arguments that the speculators tend to smooth out fluctuations in the market rather than create them so I think the wrong people are being tarred and feathered. Also the government using the ALR as a pork barrel for political friends has created an artificial shortage on the suppy side.lI think Vancouver will be a global city in a few more years which will be comparable to other great cities like NYC, SF, Tokyo, HK, Paris, etc. One downside of this is property prices is surely going to go up. As of now, ours are the lowest compare to the Cities I mentioned. If you try to make some research, cost of property here is even cheaper then in Manila, Philippines which incidentally is still a third world country, by the way. If we don't want progress and development, go ahead and clamor the government to do something about it. Put heavy taxes, halt immigration, restrict foreign buyers whatever. Or even better, restrict foreign students from UBC, Kwantlen, SFU. Surely this will discourage people from coming to Vancouver. Just do whatever is necessary to prevent new people from coming in. Lets just let this beautiful city die because without all these development that is what it's going to happen. But remember, why our health care system is sustainable, why public education in primary and secondary are free, why we have child benefits every month, why we have tax refunds and all that? Because this country has money even if we are having a recession or prices of oil are down. People all over the world envy us. The choice is yours. I pick progress.
Even If the Chinese money is laundered, does Canada have the jurisdiction to prosecute the criminal money? The money generated from crime under Chinese law, not Canadian law. Will Canada be World Police? Actually there is already tax in place for foreigners when they sell the property, It is 25% of the profit made from selling RE if you are not a Canadian Perrmanent Resident or Citizen. You don't think the foreign homeowners pay tax? Yes, they do! Lots of it actually, perhaps even more than your income tax if they own a Westside home. They pay as much property tax just as you do.This isn't about what 30% of people "want". This is about 30% of people who are struggling to survive in a country we were born in, we pay taxes in, and we all have a right to live in. You can only cash in if you sell your home to foreign money (which most of it is laundered Chinese money) AND MOVE AWAY. So at the end of the day why should we give a shit about you if you have no intentions of staying. Because you can't stay here if you are going to cash in.
Uhhh...no they don't pay the same property tax as I do. Because I pay ZERO because I can't afford to buy a property here. But as a Canadian citizen I'm forced to pay income tax, value added taxes as well as a myriad of other taxes and I've had to pay these taxes my entire adult life. I would think that one of the things I'd expect MY GOVERNMENT to do with all the tax money I pay is ensure that those of us who are citizens here have reasonable access to home ownership - and certainly more access to home ownership over foreign interests.Even If the Chinese money is laundered, does Canada have the jurisdiction to prosecute the criminal money? The money generated from crime under Chinese law, not Canadian law. Will Canada be World Police? Actually there is already tax in place for foreigners when they sell the property, It is 25% of the profit made from selling RE if you are not a Canadian Perrmanent Resident or Citizen. You don't think the foreign homeowners pay tax? Yes, they do! Lots of it actually, perhaps even more than your income tax if they own a Westside home. They pay as much property tax just as you do.
And who said anything about Canada prosecuting them?!?! Apparently you're not listening.
It sounds like you have too much sympathy for the foreign perspective. Don't tell me...let me guess where you are from...hmmmmm...you think that you pay more in property taxes than Canadian citizens pay in income tax?!?!?! Seriously, you're fucking retarded and clearly have no clue if that's what you believe because you're not even close to paying the same unless you own a west van property with an assessed value of $20,000,000...then you might be coming close. And if you can afford to be living in a $20,000,000 home then really, just fuck you and your whinging.
Seriously - you self entitled twats really need to go.
Edit - and it seems your tax rate has actually dropped 16% the past two years. Get the fuck out of here with your bitching about how much tax you pay to the Canadian system compared to Canadians.
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who would have thought that real estate price discussions would get so aggressive.......
glad the moderators are on top of this behavior,
nice to see that in the end a healthy real estate market here as it keeps the trades busy and working year round
bummer when they work half the year and spend the other half looking for projects
glad the moderators are on top of this behavior,
nice to see that in the end a healthy real estate market here as it keeps the trades busy and working year round
bummer when they work half the year and spend the other half looking for projects
Interesting developments...
Post on @Quora by Paul Denlinger: As Vancouver's Housing Market Implodes, Furious Chinese Envoy Slams Real Estate T… https://chinas-future.quora.com/As-...ams-Real-Estate-Tax?srid=uuHay&share=8f2854e5
Post on @Quora by Paul Denlinger: As Vancouver's Housing Market Implodes, Furious Chinese Envoy Slams Real Estate T… https://chinas-future.quora.com/As-...ams-Real-Estate-Tax?srid=uuHay&share=8f2854e5
once you have a vote in a jurisdiction, then you might have a valid opinion to voice
no vote, why would government pay attention, they are looking out for the best interest of the tax paying citizens who live here
Vancouver has no problems attracting people, weather, proximity to US, proximity to Asia, relatively safe city crime wise, and it is clean and beautiful
this tax and the correction it has provoked may well have prevented a more severe bubble if we allowed for a speculative real estate market for mainland Chinese money to artificially inflate
supply and demand probably a more reliable driver of prices for all of us
no vote, why would government pay attention, they are looking out for the best interest of the tax paying citizens who live here
Vancouver has no problems attracting people, weather, proximity to US, proximity to Asia, relatively safe city crime wise, and it is clean and beautiful
this tax and the correction it has provoked may well have prevented a more severe bubble if we allowed for a speculative real estate market for mainland Chinese money to artificially inflate
supply and demand probably a more reliable driver of prices for all of us
