What to do about 24 Sussex Drive?

[sdw]

There is a lot of talk about the options, so let's have a poll

According to the wives of the last few Prime Ministers the place only barely beats camping in a tent. A new mansion would run about 10 Million, a gut and rebuild inside the existing facade would run about 15 million.

Since it is a Stone house built East West, it can't really be made green.

It needs to be big enough to entertain and house visiting heads of state, so we aren't talking 3000 Square Foot Rancher.

 

[mimi]

I was listening to this on CBC today; one of the more ingenious suggestions I read on facebook was to turn it into a TV show makeover with Holmes on Homes, and a couple of other make-over types; the cost to taxpayers would be a lot smaller.

 

[bcneil]

I was listening to this on CBC today; one of the more ingenious suggestions I read on facebook was to turn it into a TV show makeover with Holmes on Homes, and a couple of other make-over types; the cost to taxpayers would be a lot smaller.

That's why I am seeing this on my Facebook. I think its kind of a weird idea. The Holmes on Homes type shows always have the same plot. They fix things done unscrupulously by the last contractor or some sort of variation on that.
I don't know if repairs on an old building would make for as interesting tv.

But yeah, I can't see them doing anything other than fixing it up completely

 

[mimi]

I think it would generate a lot of interest, media wise, and that makes money for the businesses doing the work. Maybe 'This Old House" would be a better choice ha ha! The restoration of 24 Sussex drive; I think people would go for it. They'd love to be able to see every nook and cranny of the joint, like the huge walk in closet Mulroney put in (like, why wouldn't he update the wiring?)

 

[westwoody]

Mimi, updating the wiring in that place would cost a fortune!! I bet most of the walls are plaster over lath, not drywall. So there's a big mess just ripping out the old wiring. And there probably are no proper wiring diagrams so a contractor would have to literally tear off ever wall in the house to figure it out. Many older places like that have layers of wiring from repeated upgrades, some old wires are left in place unused. Other live wires are unmarked so you can't tell what they are. Or they are crap that would never pass a modern inspection or meet current code.

The White House was completely gutted to a hollowed out shell for total renovations in 1948. That is what 24 Sussex needs. Honestly it would be cheaper to bulldoze and start from scratch. Everything in it is way outdated, electricity, heating, plumbing, data, even the windows and doors.

My sister has a stone mansion just south of Ottawa. It was built in the late 1800s. She has spent more on renovating than it cost to buy. It is spectacular but a waste of money in my opinion. Every job on her house is way more difficult and expensive because of the thick stone walls. 24 Sussex would be similar, it would be easy to spend tens of millions on renovations on such a large stone place. A brand new structure could replicate the external style but cost a fraction as much.

A TV show is a great idea. Lots of companies would jump in with free stuff. It would be cost-effective media exposure.

 

[badbadboy]

It's part of our history, a heritage building and we should bring it back to its former self.

I wonder if this question was posed to the Brits 10 Downing St or the Americans with the White House; they would pay whatever it took to preserve their Leader's homes. We need to keep our historical buildings up to date.

 

[sdw]

Mimi, updating the wiring in that place would cost a fortune!! I bet most of the walls are plaster over lath, not drywall. So there's a big mess just ripping out the old wiring. And there probably are no proper wiring diagrams so a contractor would have to literally tear off ever wall in the house to figure it out. Many older places like that have layers of wiring from repeated upgrades, some old wires are left in place unused. Other live wires are unmarked so you can't tell what they are. Or they are crap that would never pass a modern inspection or meet current code.

The White House was completely gutted to a hollowed out shell for total renovations in 1948. That is what 24 Sussex needs. Honestly it would be cheaper to bulldoze and start from scratch. Everything in it is way outdated, electricity, heating, plumbing, data, even the windows and doors.

My sister has a stone mansion just south of Ottawa. It was built in the late 1800s. She has spent more on renovating than it cost to buy. It is spectacular but a waste of money in my opinion. Every job on her house is way more difficult and expensive because of the thick stone walls. 24 Sussex would be similar, it would be easy to spend tens of millions on renovations on such a large stone place. A brand new structure could replicate the external style but cost a fraction as much.

A TV show is a great idea. Lots of companies would jump in with free stuff. It would be cost-effective media exposure.

Most of the electrical wiring is almost certainly Knob and Tube - behind the Lath and Plaster walls. I owned a house like that. Had to take it down to bare studs and completely rebuild the inside. Only reason I didn't run a bulldozer over it was that it was non-conforming (significantly oversize) due to the previous owner selling off portions of the land on either side.

You can see where the Lath and Plaster was pulled off in this picture

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knob-and-tube_wiring

Knob and Tube Wiring is a significant fire hazard and Insurance Companies won't insure the house, which is probably why the Government of Canada hasn't done anything about the Heritage Houses that they own to house our heads of government. The Government of Canada is "Self Insured" which means the Canadian Taxpayer is the Insurance Company.

 

[wetnose]

I was listening to this on CBC today; one of the more ingenious suggestions I read on facebook was to turn it into a TV show makeover with Holmes on Homes, and a couple of other make-over types; the cost to taxpayers would be a lot smaller.

Those shows are a bit of a scam as they rush the jobs to meet television deadlines. Rush jobs = future disasters in the making. My vote goes to knocking the whole thing down and moving on. A new modern residence, designed by the best architects with the best tech available, can be a great showcase of Canadian design.

 

[Ms Erica Phoenix]

It's part of our history, a heritage building and we should bring it back to its former self.

I wonder if this question was posed to the Brits 10 Downing St or the Americans with the White House; they would pay whatever it took to preserve their Leader's homes. We need to keep our historical buildings up to date.

YES. THIS.

Neither the Americans nor the Brits would have let this happen to their official residences, and it is SHAMEFUL that Canada has.

 

[sdw]

It's part of our history, a heritage building and we should bring it back to its former self.

I wonder if this question was posed to the Brits 10 Downing St or the Americans with the White House; they would pay whatever it took to preserve their Leader's homes. We need to keep our historical buildings up to date.

Actually, the American White House has been gutted and rebuilt several times. The latest by President Truman 1949 - 1951 during which the White House was completely gutted and re-designed. 10 Downing Street is actually 3 houses joined together, it's latest major gutting was started in 1958 and all three houses were essentially demolished and replaced by copies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_Downing_Street

The complete gutting and rebuilding of the houses that represent a Nation is a necessary process because the house would otherwise become uninhabitable.

It would be interesting to have a documentary made of 24 Sussex Drive as it is now and what they find as they tear it down, then the building of a truly Green, truly Canadian Mansion. Perhaps with some elements of Native Canadian culture built into the house.

Such a documentary would probably reduce the political cost of rebuilding the house.

 

[hornygandalf]

It is an important part of Canadian heritage and so to totally bulldoze it is out of the question.
If something more spacious and better suited for 21st century heads of state are needed, then gut and restore 24 Sussex Drive and make it a museum or retreat centre or something, and build a new PM residence somewhere else.

 

[pro-boner]

It's all about the location. It is amazing. So what ever they need to do has to be done on the original site.

 

[Ray]

As a 'Heritage' building, it can't be torn down.

It will need to be gutted in the interior and rebuilt to the latest efficiency standards, rewired to the latest codes, and plumbing to the latest codes as well.

 

[vancity_cowboy]

no better person than trudeau to oversee this one - he's got 'tax and spend' built right into his dna...

this is the 'infrastructure spending' he promised during the campaign! :fear:

 

[PierreCoeur]

Having been a volunteer with several organizations over the years with the mandate of Heritage Preservation, I could vote no other way than to say it should be preserved. Although the interior should be gutted, they should try as much as possible to stay true to the character of the home. $15 million is nothing these days.

 

[badbadboy]

Actually, the American White House has been gutted and rebuilt several times. The latest by President Truman 1949 - 1951 during which the White House was completely gutted and re-designed. 10 Downing Street is actually 3 houses joined together, it's latest major gutting was started in 1958 and all three houses were essentially demolished and replaced by copies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_Downing_Street

The complete gutting and rebuilding of the houses that represent a Nation is a necessary process because the house would otherwise become uninhabitable.

It would be interesting to have a documentary made of 24 Sussex Drive as it is now and what they find as they tear it down, then the building of a truly Green, truly Canadian Mansion. Perhaps with some elements of Native Canadian culture built into the house.

Such a documentary would probably reduce the political cost of rebuilding the house.

Add the demolition and burning down by Canadians and the Brits in 1812 to the renovations to the White House history.

 

[Ray]

Add the demolition and burning down by Canadians and the Brits in 1812 to the renovations to the White House history.

In 1812, there was no such thing as a Canadian. It was the British.

 

[westwoody]

Of course there were two of them, Upper Canada and Lower Canada, created in 1791.

 

[hornygandalf]

Of course there were two of them, Upper Canada and Lower Canada, created in 1791.

I believe it was referred to as British North America at that point... Though my history may be a bit off

 

[johnsmit]

I vote to renovate.
It is part of Canadian history .

Of course then the priminister will have to have a big place to live in while they are doing the 10 yr reno job.

But first let's spend 20 million having a commitee set up talk about it for 4 or 5 yrs.

Draw plans for a new place ..at 5 million or more and so on and so on .?