The fate of Bill C-36

[meaghanmcleodDELETED]

Really? Which city was this in? I thought nobody had been charged yet.

Was he just a pooner or a pimp?

There have been arrests in some areas of the country. Cape Breton recently, some in Ontario. However they appear to be targeting street workers. There are also some forces making appointments with providers and then showing up with 6 cops (in one case no female cop), to make sure she wasn't being exploited. Oh, and of course didn't pay her the donation.

 

[bcneil]

Well at least for the moment we don't need to be concerned about dear leader ordering the RCMP to take over from the VPD for morality crime.

But yeah, I don't see them rocking the boat on this issue. They can discourage resources being spent on it. I am sure if it does go to the SC and loses, they won't be appealing like the cons did for everything, when they kept losing again and again.

 

[hornygandalf]

You are fine with 2% more how much more for your gas double how much more to pay for another 100 billion borrowed from the Chinese
How much to pay for the welfare for the unemployed oilfield workers who used to pay all the high income tax and now won't have jobs for the next 5 years. Its good to beat down those rich guys but now you can pay the bills.

A fairer tax system would result in a progressive system where the wealthy are paying more.
And paying welfare for unemployed oilfield workers? That is what EI is for, albeit there has been damage done to that under Herr Harper.

 

[Tugela]

I do believe that PIVOT will take the issue back to court and c36 will be struck down. However, Libs aren't going to follow Amnesty's recommendation to decriminalize sex work entirely. They'll come up with some new bill. Imo.

I doubt they will do anything specific unless c36 is struck down again. There would no political upside to do that, and lots of risk.

It is possible that repeal or revision might be buried in some omnibus bill intended to undo or moderate many of the changes to the criminal code made by the Conservatives.

Maybe mixed in with the pot law changes and other things as part of a "lifestyle choice" bill.

 

[Tugela]

Well at least for the moment we don't need to be concerned about dear leader ordering the RCMP to take over from the VPD for morality crime.

But yeah, I don't see them rocking the boat on this issue. They can discourage resources being spent on it. I am sure if it does go to the SC and loses, they won't be appealing like the cons did for everything, when they kept losing again and again.

There wouldn't be a point to do that. Even if a different police force moved in, the RCMP would still have to use BC's crown prosecutors to prosecute, and they probably see C36 offences as low priority.

 

[Sonny]

BC's crown prosecutors ...probably see C36 offences as low priority.

No to mention the public money spent on courts, judges, crown attorneys, police court attendance time, etc. just to get a summary offence conviction and a $500 fine.
Nobody wants to waste resources on enforcing prostitution laws, excepting underage, trafficking or organized crime involvement.

 

[rts]

Thanks for the info. I ask because my friend's friend's friend ( yeah it's a mouthful) got busted in one of those condos, and he got a permanent record in his file. I would never want that happen to me, and I feel it's ridiculous to give a lifetime record for pooning? Give me a break.

Of course [start sarcasm: ] people deserve a criminal record for purchasing sexual services, because being a bad christian is a capital offense [end sarcasm] lol. Farewell Crime Minister Harpocrite, you won't be missed for anything positive. I'm glad you were PM because I think it's important to know exactly what Rock bottom feels like as a nation.

There were also busts in Winnipeg and Calgary on top of Cape Breton and the wacky Saskatchewan Primier's anti-stripper and anti-erection tirade. I feel bad Canadians east of BC because the only thing worse than their brutal winters is adding more sexual repression to the mix.

Ottawa was famous for John schools even before the old laws were struck down and the new moralist laws were crafted. VICE has a good doc about our situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5fXBN80mxs

 

[morementum]

You my friend are brainwashed by the Conservative ads which took every quotation out of context and twisted them into attack ads that lied. Good thing the majority of citizens in Canada did not believe the spin. Trudeau said “The commitment needs to be a commitment to grow the economy and the budget will balance itself,”

Yup, that worked out so well for Spain and Greece which pretty much had the same philosophy. The only brainwashing will be those who voted for this clown who will want to wash away the memory long before four years is up. Enjoy what you voted for - it is going to be a bumpy ride IF you cannot create your own wealth. If you rely upon others (e.g. work for a company), don't be shocked to see your job at risk and your ability to get along a lot tougher than you felt it would be. Big government has to be paid for somehow - there is no magical "1%" - a myth that has been disproven by the very fact that upper capital is mobile. Anyway, enjoy it - I sure will be watching so many realize what an absolute mess they created. Mulcair would have been a far saner alternative if people were sick of Harper.

Enjoy.

 

[Tugela]

Yup, that worked out so well for Spain and Greece which pretty much had the same philosophy. The only brainwashing will be those who voted for this clown who will want to wash away the memory long before four years is up. Enjoy what you voted for - it is going to be a bumpy ride IF you cannot create your own wealth. If you rely upon others (e.g. work for a company), don't be shocked to see your job at risk and your ability to get along a lot tougher than you felt it would be. Big government has to be paid for somehow - there is no magical "1%" - a myth that has been disproven by the very fact that upper capital is mobile. Anyway, enjoy it - I sure will be watching so many realize what an absolute mess they created. Mulcair would have been a far saner alternative if people were sick of Harper.

Enjoy.

That is not what happened in Greece. There was no commitment to grow the economy, there was a commitment to buy votes with free money, in the form of drastically reduced retirement ages and expansion of the social services safety net. And at the same time they were lax at collecting taxes. The problem was a collective lack of responsibility, both by the government in making promises they could not keep, and the electorate in demanding that they make such promises.

In a way the closest comparison to Greece in North America is actually the US. They spend money, but won't raise taxes to do it. They also have a chronically underfunded government, and what is more, the republicans intend it to be that way. They are constantly looking for ways to reduce state revenue. Sooner or later the wheels will fall off down south as well as a result. They have exactly the same structural flaw going on that Greece had, albeit with emphasis in different places.

Jobs wont be at risk with the Liberals approach. The main difference is that instead of creating jobs in China (or wherever) with money wealthy people/companies keep as a result of lower taxes, the jobs are instead created in Canada because the government is going to spend it here (and not in China or wherever). In theory money spent will create jobs no matter who spends it, but in practice it is WHERE that money is spent. In times of economic trouble you want that money invested at home, but individuals with wealth are going to see it as safer to invest their money off shore. That is why a Conservative government is dangerous to the economy in its present condition, and why the Liberals are a safer bet.

 

[mimi]

^ good points. I never paid much attention to income and outgo of this country, and I didn't vote for Trudeau, but when he was elected and people started screaming about how he was going to put the country in debt I took the time to go through the stats on each government elected since the WWII.

Ironically, it is the conservatives who end up in a deficit, and the liberals who have run a surplus. Harper managed to run a deficit without putting much into the country in terms of jobs (the kind that aren't minimum wage and part time), and he had a lousy sales record with exports, the lowest since the early fifties. Handing money out to citizens in the form of payments to householders does not stimulate growth in the economy, we need money pumped into trade, good trade, and infrastructure.

People keep saying the government should stay out of business; the government is a fucking business and I want to see it make money. I don't mind paying more in taxes if we can get this country moving again.

 

[Tugela]

Keep in mind, governments can't actually create jobs. Wealth generation always comes from the private sector. A government can make life easier or harder for the private sector but it can't wave a magic wand and say "tah dah, here's 5,000 new oil sector jobs." Jobs "created" by government are paid for by wealth generated in the private sector, just like industries (i.e. auto manufacturing) "saved" by government bailouts. Enterprising individuals have to recognise opportunity (which government can help to encourage) and build a business that fills a demand, generating profit and paying taxes.

My understanding is also that government policy on the economy tends to take a long time to take effect. You can look at deficits/surpluses for each government in power but there's going to be a lot more contributing factors from the world economy and governments past. People pointing to one facet as the deciding factor in the economy (i.e. government in power at the time) aren't sharing a complete picture.

That is complete nonsense. Governments create jobs just as much as private industry. They provide a service, just as all private industry does. The only difference is the mechanism by which they acquire income for those services.

 

[yazoo]

I think 'governments don't create jobs' meme is not that they don't employ people. A bus driver employed by a private company, vs by a city authority is no different - it is still a job.

It's that government jobs don't identify new areas of wealth generation that we haven't thought of yet. You won't get same dynamic economy building of a million entrepreneurs from a million planning bureaucrats. The Soviets proved that.

 

[Tugela]

I think 'governments don't create jobs' meme is not that they don't employ people. A bus driver employed by a private company, vs by a city authority is no different - it is still a job.

It's that government jobs don't identify new areas of wealth generation that we haven't thought of yet. You won't get same dynamic economy building of a million entrepreneurs from a million planning bureaucrats. The Soviets proved that.

That is not true either. Most government spending is in the creation and maintenance of infrastructure. That is the foundation on which the rest of the economy is built. If you talk about wealth generation, what you are really talking about is wealth generation of a few individuals. Most people don't benefit from that at all. If we relied solely on private industry and had no government, what we would end up with would be a few very rich people and a great number of very poor people. There would be far fewer things like roads, schools, hospitals and anything else of an infrastructural nature. If it didn't make a rich person richer, it wouldn't be there.

All that entrepreneurial spirit you are talking about would not happen in the vast majority of cases as a result. A broad based entrepreneurial economy is only possible with deep government investment in broad infrastructural development. It is the grease and the machinery that makes all else possible. Without the sort of government we now have, we would all be living in third world conditions. Which is to say, a small few living in fabulous luxury while the majority live in mud huts with dirt roads, no sewers, no education etc etc.

When it comes to spending itself, that money does not go into a hole in the ground. Ultimately it goes into salaries, which in turn gets spent, which in turn creates demand for goods and services, which in turn creates more jobs. What you need to get an economy going again in a recession is to get more money into salaries. When the government does this, those salaries are local salaries, when private industry does this more often than not those salaries are off shore salaries. That is the difference.

 

[MissingOne]

I think 'governments don't create jobs' meme is not that they don't employ people. A bus driver employed by a private company, vs by a city authority is no different - it is still a job.

It's that government jobs don't identify new areas of wealth generation that we haven't thought of yet. You won't get same dynamic economy building of a million entrepreneurs from a million planning bureaucrats. The Soviets proved that.

And yet, so much of the high-tech industry that we have now is built on a foundation of government-funded research. That includes the Internet that we are using here to complain about government spending.

 

[yazoo]

That is not true either. Most government spending is in the creation and maintenance of infrastructure. That is the foundation on which the rest of the economy is built. If you talk about wealth generation, what you are really talking about is wealth generation of a few individuals. .

And yet, so much of the high-tech industry that we have now is built on a foundation of government-funded research. That includes the Internet that we are using here to complain about government spending.

You both are right, of course. But some of the most effective aid programs in the developing world are focused around micro-financing. The encouragement of free enterprise is the fastest way to bring people out of poverty.

But yes, you do need publicly funded infrastructure and pure research. Often the micro-financed businesses I referred to above are strangled by bureaucracy, corruption, and lack of infrastructure.

 

[morementum]

Jobs wont be at risk with the Liberals approach.

Most hilarious post about the Federal election so far. Looking forward to coming back to it in a few years time.

 

[Pantherdash]

Most hilarious post about the Federal election so far. Looking forward to coming back to it in a few years time.

I have a distinct feeling you're going to be eating your words.

Panther

 

[clu]

So our new Minister of Justice was a former prosecutor in the DTES. Could have relevance to the future of C-36. They do bring it up in this article:

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/jody-wilson-raybould-from-the-trenches-to-front-benches/