Men using the rating system in reviews...

[morementum]

Seriously? I gather from your previous posts on complaining about rates and such you're not used to ladies being allowed to have opinions on board etiquette. Many members here have just as much respect for us as we do them and they value our opinions, believe it or not. It's merely a discussion, if you're going to be disrespectful to the providers that fund this board perhaps you shouldn't comment on such topics.

now i am being lectured by an escort on an escort review board? Really?! anyway, i value all opinions when appropriate but i see no value in an escort's opinion on an escort review board. If I am reviewing anything and reading other people's opinions, which will range from insightful to complete fabricated bullshit, i take it in and use my own brain to decide what sticks and what doesn't BUT if someone associated with the item is posting or seemingly trying to control the message, not only do I take that input as irrelevant and biased, i see it as a desperate attempt at damage control.

I have no problem with anyone posting in lounge on a topic but when it comes to the actual reviews, I don't see how escorts should have any say. in another thread it was even implied that some escorts can have reviews changed and stuff - that is just odd and reeks of damage control. if you are providing a good experience, you will get good reviews and people will spot BS attempts to discredit. Who cares if the reviewer uses superlatives, numbers or compares it to ancient Sanskrit. Guys have rated girls, and girls rated guys, on a scale of 1 to 10 forever - there are songs about it, books about it and everyone does it. In a business where guys pay money to have experience that includes the looks, it seems more than natural to do what is done in everyday life.

Nothing to do with respecting opinions. Get over yourself.

 

[manni]

an interesting thread.
I don't see anything wrong with reviews based on the number system.

sure, there are a few gents on this board that are more poetic with
their reviews, but even those tend to sound similar over time.
besides, how many ways can one describe the female body parts or
the amazing MPOS and BBBJ received?

are we expected to have the penmanship of Ernest Hemingway as well?
sorry ladies, but guys just aren't wired that way. it's just the way things are.

 

[chuckertmg]

there are a few gents on this board that are more poetic with
their reviews, but even those tend to sound similar over time.
besides, how many ways can one describe the female body parts or
the amazing MPOS and BBBJ received?

I don't see how that helps, Manni, and believe me I have no interest in arguing further about this - we've all got bigger things to worry about.
But you're saying that verbal descriptions start to sound similar over time so numbers are more useful.
So instead of using descriptive adjectives and adverbs of which we have an abundance, we will use something which maintains more meaning, such as: She was an 8. Her services were an 8. I thought her in call was a 7. The last one I saw was a 7.5. She was way better than the one I saw last month 'cause she was a 6.

What is this based on, and how does it mean anything? And if it doesn't mean anything to the reader, why are we bothering? I do sympathize with what the o.p. said, but I also know that I scoff when I see some of the ratings given, because from my own experience I know that we're living in different streams of reality.
If it's described that they resemble some public figure then that can be helpful. If they're given a '10' without elaboration my eyes roll back so far in my head that I can almost see down my own throat...

Enjoy your weekend.

 

[vanperb]

Ok, I am definitely not one of the girls out there that prefers not to be reviewed, because I know that reviews can be a huge generator for people noticing that you're out there. I prefer the ones that state enjoyment, and lack of specific detail, but the ones that list every move are helpful too. I get it. Clients want to know what they're in for. But guys.....WHY??? Why the numbers out of 10??? Giving a score is completely subjective and objectifying towards the SP. It makes me feel like a prized cattle or sporting event. Is it really not enough to just type out your feelings on the encounter? It's especially awful when there's a group of reviews and girls are listed, one name on top of the other, and then graded. Ew. It makes me feel yucky, and it is hurtful to self-esteem..."I wonder what she looks like...she's prettier/thinner/funnier than me [according to that ONE person]...does that mean I'm ugly/fat/boring??....should I try harder? Hate that girl? Go on a diet?" Etc etc etc The number grading system is one aspect I really dislike about this line of work, and I find it tacky/lazy. Am I alone in this? Ladies?

Like most rating systems you eventually use the reviewer not the system. People can use whatever number or fruit system they want, but the fact that we all have different preferences and experiences means that the reviews are only really useful for overviews. They're especially unhelpful when the reviewer is clearly enamored with the SP (and I'm not even counting the shill ones). People new to the board will start with and use the rating system. But after the first two experiences where they're session didn't even come close to the reviews they start to gloss over them.

There are about 2 regular reviewers whose tastes and likes match mine a lot. And there are two reviewers who I use their reviews as a "stay away" sign from certain SP's.

On the SP's side I can see how it can be degrading, having your career quantified in public like that, but at least you get to see the reviews. If it makes you feel better, I get two annual regular performance reviews from at least 8 different people, 4 of them not from my own choosing. And it's on discrete subjective scale as well. BUT I have no idea who gave me what review, and it directly impacts both my pay and where I can go in (or out (Vancouver is a small town)) the company. I can either spend time on office politics and social engineering, or I can keep trying get better at what I do. I choose the latter.... but really that's only because I suck at office politics.

As a side point, can you imagine how people making movies feel? Thousands talented people pouring thousands of man hours into a film, with all their efforts and dreams summarized in either a "thumbs up" or "thumbs down"?

 

[Peyton Anders]

And here folks is how in parliament it's easy for them to show a picture of men treating us as fuck toys who should fuck you, suck you and shut up rather then see how it is actually more common for men to treat us with respect, kindness and dignity. If parliament weren't able to milk review boards for a ton of women hating disrespect then maybe they wouldn't have such ammunition against us.

Thank you to all the men who do genuinely treat us well and are not the stereotype of the men described by parliament. The men who can recount a session with an SP without it being hateful, sexist or degrading, which in my community seems like most thankfully.

Men treating women ( escorts / non escorts ) better is the only way prostitution has a chance at decriminalization or legalization. It may take years but think of the bigger picture people !

Morementum - Sorry for using you as an example but it was just to easy.

I don't personally care to much about the number system, It has no affect on me. I am more concerned with the type of reviews that can be used against us as an industry like the ones in the parliamentary hearings. That needs to change if we ever want to be taken seriously and not keep jeopardizing the industry we all love.

You put it better than I could, I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[Julie Page]

I am at a loss at seeing guys on an escort review site debating whether escorts like how they are reviewed. Give me a freakin break. It isn't like escorts should even read these let alone have a say in them. Let guys post what they want and if you agree with a guy's perspective, they way he reviews (points or no points - who really cares) may or many not help you. Isn't that what a review board is for? I remain at a loss why any input from escorts on this subject is even relevant.

I think its great that we can see. Any girl worth her salt wants to know how she is doing.
And, we ARE people, Morementum. Some of us choose to be more than a warm hole.

 

[vanperb]

I think its great that we can see. Any girl worth her salt wants to know how she is doing.
And, we ARE people, Morementum. Some of us choose to be more than a warm hole.

Well, there is the private forum where you can't see your reviews: https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?201600-Possible-relaunch-of-a-Private-Forum-here-on-PERB&highlight=private

 

[Julie Page]

Well, there you go.
Although, I don't like not being able to see my reviews. In any other industry you can see these things, which is valuable feedback and helps me be better at what I do.

 

[chuckertmg]

If it makes you feel better, I get two annual regular performance reviews from at least 8 different people, 4 of them not from my own choosing. And it's on discrete subjective scale as well. BUT I have no idea who gave me what review, and it directly impacts both my pay and where I can go in (or out (Vancouver is a small town)) the company.

Two performance appraisals annually by eight different people?!? Does your CEO carry the surname 'Stalin'?

Well, there is the private forum where you can't see your reviews: https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?201600-Possible-relaunch-of-a-Private-Forum-here-on-PERB&highlight=private

Yeah, great to see the 'good ol' boys club' remains alive and well. I sure wouldn't want people I don't know holding me accountable for publicly expressed opinions. That would suck.

 

[Ms Erica Phoenix]

Yes, because those lists are an overall enjoyment. The system Ms. Erica introduced was also based on expectation based on photos and other reviews. They aren't broken down into looks, attitude, or service. Some people click better than others in a sexual situation for many different reasons. I'm flattered to be a favourite of a client, I don't scheme how to get to the top of the list. If site members posted a "least favourite SP" list, in numerical order, that would degrading. Not someone telling me I'm good at what I offer to be good at.

Nothing that says that they can't rate by category too:

Looks: Met Expectations
Body: Met Expectations
Attitude: Exceeds Expectations
Service: Exceeds Expectations
OveraLL:

And so on.

 

[BORKO]

Ok, I am definitely not one of the girls out there that prefers not to be reviewed, because I know that reviews can be a huge generator for people noticing that you're out there. I prefer the ones that state enjoyment, and lack of specific detail, but the ones that list every move are helpful too. I get it. Clients want to know what they're in for. But guys.....WHY??? Why the numbers out of 10??? Giving a score is completely subjective and objectifying towards the SP. It makes me feel like a prized cattle or sporting event. Is it really not enough to just type out your feelings on the encounter? It's especially awful when there's a group of reviews and girls are listed, one name on top of the other, and then graded. Ew. It makes me feel yucky, and it is hurtful to self-esteem..."I wonder what she looks like...she's prettier/thinner/funnier than me [according to that ONE person]...does that mean I'm ugly/fat/boring??....should I try harder? Hate that girl? Go on a diet?" Etc etc etc The number grading system is one aspect I really dislike about this line of work, and I find it tacky/lazy. Am I alone in this? Ladies?

I think it's because it's a lot easier, perhaps lazier, to give a grade out of 10 or whatever, than to explain your point of view using words. It's also a lot easier to read since 8/10 will never get a TL;DR response.

But perhaps some people get off on grading people and that's part of their fetish?

Perhaps we might encourage them instead to use the 4 point scale that should be familiar to anyone who has read an elementary school report card in the last decade?

4: Exceeds Expectations - This is for the mindblowing, bone melting, can't stop grinning, "I just saw the face of God", so much better than anticipated...

3: Fully Meets Expectations - Delivers on everything promised, pictures obviously real and recent, good time is had by all...

2: Minimally Meets Expectations - It's the right girl, and the right place, and the price is fair and the service is adequate...barely

1: Not Meeting Expectations - B & S, pictures 5 years out of date, you walk, she bails, etc.

Having had some practice with evaluation and assessment, I believe the 4 point scale as outlined is far less subjective and much more useful. Using that scale, a gentleman can rate a woman based SOLELY upon his expectations. I have some new, completely unretouched photographs on my latest ad that shows a VERY accurate representation of my body type, though most of my face is obscured*. So if a gentleman were to come and visit me, he might rate my looks as a 3, because I look exactly like the picture I posted, or as a 4, because he might find that my sparkling eyes add a lot to my looks. Alternatively, he might decide that for him, my looks are a 1, because I'm 100% natural unenhanced and in my 40s (why he would have chosen to see me only to rate me a 1 is a mystery that will continue to baffle us all...) Although it's still a subjective rating system, it is one gentleman's opinion of one woman at a time.

*although let's face it, with THIS hair, if you've seen my ads, you're going to recognize me out in public.

The assessment system all comes down to how it is defined and also what curve is being used. TER uses a 10 point system as well, but they define what each value should be used for each level of looks and service. Of course, their system is a little skewed since they don't allow providers to be awarded certain scores unless they provide certain services, I think getting a 10 out of 10 for service requires 3 of DFK, BBBJ/CIM, Greek or bisexual services. However it's a more informative system over there since they provide for categories to list services like who does BBBJ and if CIM with spit or CIMWS is available.

But really, these days for me I only use reviews to help decide not to see people. Everyone's wants and desires are so completely different that their experience will be completely different from mine, so I would only really pay attention to a review if it was super negative or it listed a lot of restrictions that didn't mesh with me. An example of how everyone's point of view is different would be when people do the celebrity comparison thing and the girl will never actually look like the celebrity brought up when you meet her. In the end, I know what I like though in terms of appearance (tall, thin, fake breasts) and services, so as long as that is provided and she doesn't have any horrifically negative reviews I'll try out a ladies services.

 

[Ms Erica Phoenix]

I think this gets right to the meat of it. A review should either confirm your decision to see a lady or reinforce your decision not to. As for why ladies should be able to read reviews, I humbly submit 2 reasons. First of all, if there is something in a review that is negative that I am able to change, having it mentioned in a review is a sure fire way to make it happen! Example "her dog came into the room halfway through; it was really unsettling". I can see how it would be; my dogs are locked outside when my guests arrive, and the only room in the house they are not allowed in is the 'fuck room" as richardinrichmo coined it. Secondly, there are gentlemen out there whose reviewing style is such that if they were to request an appointment using their PERB handle, I would politely beg off with explosive diarrhea. Those who delight in slammings, slaggings and complaints; they write to be unpleasant and air their imagined grievances, to compare prices in Vancouver today with another city some years ago, etc...that sort of thing. I'm not interested in being paid to be a notch on your review belt, or so you can show off how nasty you can be when you're hiding behind a screen name. When you enjoy our time together and you wish to share that with other members who might also enjoy the charms of an educated, sophisticated and well-mannered woman in her 40s, I am delighted. If you did not enjoy our time together, I'd far prefer a quick email/text after the fact so that I can arrange a time to attempt to rectivy that instead of you grinding an axe publicly.

When I read my own reviews, I am looking for areas that I might address to make everyone's experience more positive, including my own.

 

[SFMIKE]

For a monger, the only time the numbers are meaningful is if you have noticed that the reviewer has the same taste / criteria as the yourself.

When I first started, I followed the herd and used number ratings for Face, body, GFE, and so on, but soon realized that the appearance based ratings are useless and I agree, demeaning. I think there is a place for ratings based upon service. I've had SP's who welcomed me with wine, folded my clothes and hung things up in their closet, and just generally anticipated my every desire - like any service-based offering should be. But I guess I contradict myself - someone else's idea of service might just be an extra-long bj.

And while we're at the demeaning language discussion, is there something we can do about that cold, aseptic term 'service provider'? It's so cleansed of humanity it seems almost robotic. I'd much prefer a happy hooker than a government-issue faceless 'service provider' wearing a lab coat and a black latex glove.

With the demise of Myredbook.com in SF, it appears that "RA" might be up for grabs, in place of SP:

Relaxation Attendant, Relaxation Assistant, or what have you. Maybe Relaxation Aficionado for the guy?

 

[BORKO]

I think this gets right to the meat of it. A review should either confirm your decision to see a lady or reinforce your decision not to. As for why ladies should be able to read reviews, I humbly submit 2 reasons. First of all, if there is something in a review that is negative that I am able to change, having it mentioned in a review is a sure fire way to make it happen! Example "her dog came into the room halfway through; it was really unsettling". I can see how it would be; my dogs are locked outside when my guests arrive, and the only room in the house they are not allowed in is the 'fuck room" as richardinrichmo coined it. Secondly, there are gentlemen out there whose reviewing style is such that if they were to request an appointment using their PERB handle, I would politely beg off with explosive diarrhea. Those who delight in slammings, slaggings and complaints; they write to be unpleasant and air their imagined grievances, to compare prices in Vancouver today with another city some years ago, etc...that sort of thing. I'm not interested in being paid to be a notch on your review belt, or so you can show off how nasty you can be when you're hiding behind a screen name. When you enjoy our time together and you wish to share that with other members who might also enjoy the charms of an educated, sophisticated and well-mannered woman in her 40s, I am delighted. If you did not enjoy our time together, I'd far prefer a quick email/text after the fact so that I can arrange a time to attempt to rectivy that instead of you grinding an axe publicly.

When I read my own reviews, I am looking for areas that I might address to make everyone's experience more positive, including my own.

I'd think most people who do "mean" reviews would avoid using their perb handle. I'd also think that if anyone keeps a review belt with notches in it, they're missing the whole point, IMO, of seeing escorts, which is having sex with them, not writing about it after.

I also think there are a lot of different things that you can take from a review to help decide whether to see a lady or not, including if she has a dog, say if you're allergic or if she gives a teethy blowjob and you have a girthy penis. More information is always good.

 

[Ms Erica Phoenix]

I'd think most people who do "mean" reviews would avoid using their perb handle. I'd also think that if anyone keeps a review belt with notches in it, they're missing the whole point, IMO, of seeing escorts, which is having sex with them, not writing about it after.

I also think there are a lot of different things that you can take from a review to help decide whether to see a lady or not, including if she has a dog, say if you're allergic or if she gives a teethy blowjob and you have a girthy penis. More information is always good.

You'd think so, wouldn't you? Hwever, earlier this year, several ladies and myself were double-booked, and booked-and-bailed, by a longstanding member who used his PERB cred to secure multiple multi hour dates during the same time during the same weekend. There was some discussion about whether it was a lurker trading on the member's name, but since the member hasn't surfaced again in the meantime, we can only assume it was in fact him.

In any case, BORKO, you're right. It's the experience that matters, not the blog post or review later.

 

[screwtape1963]

And here folks is how in parliament it's easy for them to show a picture of men treating us as fuck toys who should fuck you, suck you and shut up rather then see how it is actually more common for men to treat us with respect, kindness and dignity. If parliament weren't able to milk review boards for a ton of women hating disrespect then maybe they wouldn't have such ammunition against us.

Thank you to all the men who do genuinely treat us well and are not the stereotype of the men described by parliament. The men who can recount a session with an SP without it being hateful, sexist or degrading, which in my community seems like most thankfully.

Men treating women ( escorts / non escorts ) better is the only way prostitution has a chance at decriminalization or legalization. It may take years but think of the bigger picture people !

Morementum - Sorry for using you as an example but it was just to easy.

I don't personally care to much about the number system, It has no affect on me. I am more concerned with the type of reviews that can be used against us as an industry like the ones in the parliamentary hearings. That needs to change if we ever want to be taken seriously and not keep jeopardizing the industry we all love.

And that is also why the whole "they quoted some reviews in Parliament" discussion is an irrelevant red herring. The simple truth is that anybody who wants to try to make ANY activity look bad can find some ammunition to support that argument somewhere in webposts on the internet.

I see that Perb has over 73,000 members who have posted over 1 million posts. If you think the anti-prostitution moral crusaders are not going to be able to find something there to use - before or after editing - you are hopelessly naive.

As another example, people in favour of ending the private ownership and use of firearms in Canada (such as the Coalition for Gun Control) try to do exactly the same thing to demonstrate that Canadian firearms owners, hunters and shooters are, as a group, a bunch of irresponsible murderous nutjobs. How? They go to the largest web board for firearms owners in Canada, Canadian Gunnutz. It has over 125,000 members who have posted over 8 million posts on everything from firearms, firearms laws, the right of self defence, and hunting to movies and vehicles. And with 125,000 members on a public forum and 8 million posts to choose from, they manage to dig up quotes to post in the media and quote to politicians to "prove" that all Canadian firearms owners are dangerous lunatics and no civilian should be trusted with a firearm.

(And, in case they have any difficulty finding genuine posts, it is well known that some of the 'firearms enthusiasts' who join and post on CGN are actually members of those very same anti-firearms organizations themselves - trolling the boards, trying to start inflammatory conversations, and even making some of the most extremely obnoxious posts themselves... Does anybody here truly believe that the same thing doesn't happen on boards like Perb?)

The same with the auto enthusiasts. Give me half an hour and I'll find you a handful of quotes from some of the hot-rod custom boards to "prove" that for public safety nobody should be trusted to own and drive a private vehicle capable of travelling faster than 15 miles an hour... And if Parliament ever wanted to enact such a law and held hearings about it, there would be "public safety advocates" who would do precisely that. And some of them might even join those boards ahead of time to post about running illegal road races and so forth themselves - anonymously - to quote later as examples of 'irresponsible auto enthusiasts'...

That's just one of the facts of life in a country with free speech - and an Internet where anybody can post anything they want. Get used to it.

How do you counter it? By organizing lobby groups yourself to get your own message out and to counter the use of anonymous web posts through a personal face making directly attributable quotes and:

(a) pointing out that the anonymous Internet postings are precisely that - comments from unknown people so there is absolutely no way to tell who is really saying it, whether the comment is anything more than a dirty story such as men and women have told each other in lockerrooms for centuries, or even if the person making it is a genuine 'pooner', a pathological liar, or even an 'agent provocateur';

(b) opposing the 'anonymous internet poster' with actual faces of people (such as Jillian Hollander in the NP story a few days ago); and

(c) insisting that, if a Parliamentary committee (for example) wants to read a few anonymous posts into the record from a website as 'evidence', then it should be obligated to read everything else from that website into the record too ... and bringing in a compilation of a million or so quotes showing 'human decency'...

in short, by doing much what your industry representative groups and SPs tried to do at the hearings themselves.

 

[screwtape1963]

I totally agree with you. However jail time, criminal records and ruined lives aren't becoming an actual threat to the members of those hobby groups. I think if there's ever been a time to wake up and make some changes on how we conduct ourselves it might be now. I have no ulterior motive other than wanting to keep this industry safe and clients seeking consensual sex with adults out of jail. Sure I'm a dreamer but I think starting small and today matters. Call me crazy but I do hope for a day where there is nothing on the internet which shows clients treating SPs shitty and vice versa. It might be unlikely but what's the point of striving for mediocrity. If we can't create unity amongst ourselves then why should anyone take us seriously ?

And yes I get it, there isn't unity and you can find darkness, hate and negativity in many industries, companies and hobby groups blah, blah, blah. I don't care about that. I care about this and my friends here who have the potential to have their lives turned upside down. I do think these boards matter. That is all.

Slightly off topic, I suppose, but all I can say is that you clearly haven't talked to any Canadian firearms owners since somewhere around 1995 ...

Also, the discussion among the SPs around forming lobby groups and the rather interesting fight I saw in the thread about the "Happy Hookers" organization reminds me a lot of the early discussions among Canadian firearms owners when the 'gun lobby' was first getting set up in 1993-94 in the face of the Liberal government's introduction of Bill C-68 as the first step in its social engineering program to eradicate civilian firearms ownership in Canada through increasing criminalization. And my comments about how to handle the PR are also based on what the 'gun lobby' has done in the years since.

 

[Elle Diablo]

The numerical system definitely is useless. With that said, bros who write a fan fic 2500 word review aren't exactly helping either. But I also think some guys are looking for those reviews. My favorite reviews are brief.

They look like:

Looks: Gorgeous. She looks exactly like the pictures.
Attitude: Great attitude. Easy to talk to and a wonderful personality.
Service: Everything on the menu is available as advertised.
Atmosphere: Very relaxing. Had a Bohemian vibe.
Incall Location: Easy to find and convenient.
Notes: Definitely do Doggy style. Russian wasn't the greatest, etc.
Repeat: Most definitely.
Cash: 3 Robert Bordons and 1 WL MacKenzie/hr

Boom.

You learn everything you need to know without having to read a novel or guess what someone's numerical system is like.

Aaah ... the best of both worlds ... to the point and informative.

 

[vancity_cowboy]

However jail time, criminal records and ruined lives aren't becoming an actual threat to the members of those hobby groups.

i agree with most of your post with the exception of the sentence quoted above

after five years, the then-new firearms possession permits started to expire. most people renewed them before the expiry date. but the few that forgot became guilty of a criminal offence, for possessing firearms without a valid permit. let me repeat that... guilty of a criminal offence FOR FAILING TO RENEW A PREVIOUSLY GRANTED PERMIT!! no warning given, no grace period, nothing - you are suddenly guilty of a criminal offence

all parties have totally lost sight of the principle of appropriateness in their lawmaking - much to the detriment of liberty and personal freedoms in our society

 

[derivative]

i find the number rating system useful. It's usually pretty accurate in my opinion. most guys have similar likes i think.
i prefer a quantitative rating + a short description. a short sentence of two is a must following the quantitative rating.