Surrey Hockey Mom murder.

[poorboyv6]

so those families need help you makde it worse by enabling the parents. and how do you find these needy children in small towns ? why is the ministry not involved?

You know you're right? The next time a kid shows up at the health centre and hasn't eaten in three days, I won't make any efforts to try and find him or her a meal because I'm enabling the parents. I'll tell the kid to go find his own food and that and maybe on the fifth or sixth day their parents will feed them.

Same with the kid that's been abandoned. Maybe they've only temporarily been abandoned, so I'll just wait instead of calling the ministry. Wait! I don't need to call the ministry, they're clairvoyant! They know this kid's been abandoned! They don't need anyone to report it!

I forgot this is British Columbia. The police have the press in their back pocket. The police are never lambasted by the media in this province!

 

[cherise]

You know you're right? The next time a kid shows up at the health centre and hasn't eaten in three days, I won't make any efforts to try and find him or her a meal because I'm enabling the parents. I'll tell the kid to go find his own food and that and maybe on the fifth or sixth day their parents will feed them.

Same with the kid that's been abandoned. Maybe they've only temporarily been abandoned, so I'll just wait instead of calling the ministry. Wait! I don't need to call the ministry, they're clairvoyant! They know this kid's been abandoned! They don't need anyone to report it!

I forgot this is British Columbia. The police have the press in their back pocket. The police are never lambasted by the media in this province!

dont be ridiculous , you said you go around asking neighbors and relatives to feed them ..then inform the ministry if you cant find anyone. how do these kids end up at the health center (which has not been mentioned til now, you failed to mention it was a job )

children starving for days because the parents are smoking ,drinking, and gambling the subsidy away is an IMMEDIATE concern for the childs welfare. they don't need to be dragged door to door looking for a meal they need to be rescued immediately
his is baby riley...his teenage parents were sentenced to 60 yrs in prison for starving him

 

[PlayfulAlex]

I appreciate all the concern about parenting that recent events have provoked. Unfortunately these can become heated arguments, with various opinions on both sides turning into personal character attacks (I have to be careful myself).

Nonetheless, it is tragic that this mom ended up dead; I hope the facts do come out and the perpetrator(s) are brought to justice. I fell terribly sad for the kids and the husband, who will probably have a hard time forgiving themselves for letting mom go out in the dark, one final time. I can only imagine the grief that the family members are feeling.

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/hockey-mom-attacked-outside-arena-dies-in-hospital-1.1613041

And, while we're on the subject of families, everyone, check your smoke alarms...

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/no-working-smoke-alarms-at-scene-of-fatal-house-fire-1.1615033

 

[cherise]

no it started because he said the other surrey death was not tragic .that she deserved what she got (the 19 yr old that fell 26 stories)

 

[PlayfulAlex]

no it started because he said the other surrey death was not tragic .that she deserved what she got (the 19 yr old that fell 26 stories)

I know...and it's all tragic.

Keyboards can be dangerous in the wrong hands...

 

[Jessica James]

Me and a few buds sitting around talking about this and we came to consensus.
several of us have coached minor hockey and played, managed teams etc.
We have all had many many run ins with wacko parents from our teams or opposing teams.
We all have been threatened , slandered , and abused by drunk/drugged/fukked up adult parents.
We all think they(police) should go back and question the team and other parents to see if a nut case had issues in previous games.
Then saw she was at the arena and did what he did.
just our thoughts and theory......this is fukkked up !

I have been to my fair share of minor hockey games and although I have witnessed whiny , obese, miserable drunk and semi to all the way stupid parents I have not witnessed violence . I am aware their are parents who have been violent I just haven't seen it .

My heart breaks for this family and everyone affected . I think personally this offender has a friend and they were not on drugs and they were young 16-22 years of age living near newton arena or staying with foster parents or something like a family but not really I do not believe this was a junkie and if I'm wrong ok but I don't think its a man over 25 and I also think the people who live with this person are afraid of him .

 

[badbadboy]

The Hockey Mom murder was an innocent person in the wrong place at the wrong time. The January 1st murder is an example of someone who placed herself in danger. The police had multiple dealings with the suspect and victim prior to January 1st. Solving the January 1st. murder doesn't take a rocket scientist. They already know who it is. They just need time to gather the evidence.

The Hockey Mom murderer is still at large and unknown. Catching him is going to take considerable resources and at this moment, the public is at risk. Unlike the January 1st murder, anyone has the potential to be the next victim.

I feel for "real" victims. Not people who place themselves in danger. Someone who is killed because they are hit by a drunk driver is a tragic situation.

http://www.news1130.com/2012/12/28/natasha-warren-to-be-sentenced-for-killing-kassandra-kaulius/

Someone who is killed in a car driven by a drunk driver doesn't get my sympathy. They put themselves in danger.

Leah Hadden-Watts is another example of someone who deserves what she got. Doesn't matter if you are male or female. You hang around with gangsters, you have to be prepared for the consequences.

http://www.mapleridgenews.com/news/220434191.html

Whoa, you have a deluded value system poorboy. Insensitivity barely even describes your attitude towards ANYONE who has been killed under any circumstances.

As they say, when you are up to your neck in shit, just keep digging.

 

[poorboyv6]

dont be ridiculous , you said you go around asking neighbors and relatives to feed them ..then inform the ministry if you cant find anyone. how do these kids end up at the health center (which has not been mentioned til now, you failed to mention it was a job )

children starving for days because the parents are smoking ,drinking, and gambling the subsidy away is an IMMEDIATE concern for the childs welfare. they don't need to be dragged door to door looking for a meal they need to be rescued immediately
his is baby riley...his teenage parents were sentenced to 60 yrs in prison for starving him

If you classify someone who is unpaid and a volunteer who temporarily helps out as being employed, then it was a job.

Obviously you've never been to a small remote town. It's a different way of life in isolated small communities. Kids are out at 3 in the morning wandering around in packs. Half of them don't go to school because their parents don't believe in education. Rampant teenage pregnancy. The ministry would be taking away three quarters of the kids to meet your standards. Doesn't happen. Won't happen.

These places have no dry cleaner, barber or corner garage. There's no SPCA. Stray dogs get shot because if you leave them alone, they breed, form packs and then attack small children for food.

Pick an isolated community in any province to visit. It doesn't matter if it's Newfoundland or B.C. or Nunavut. They all have communities like this, especially up north.

 

[badbadboy]

Me and a few buds sitting around talking about this and we came to consensus.
several of us have coached minor hockey and played, managed teams etc.
We have all had many many run ins with wacko parents from our teams or opposing teams.
We all have been threatened , slandered , and abused by drunk/drugged/fukked up adult parents.
We all think they(police) should go back and question the team and other parents to see if a nut case had issues in previous games.
Then saw she was at the arena and did what he did.
just our thoughts and theory......this is fukkked up !

Hopefully this was not at the hands of some nut bar deranged Hockey Parent!

I also have been involved with minor hockey at various levels of abilities and each level has its own separate "intensity" of well meaning but sometimes way over the top parents.

We always had two meetings at the beginning of the year with the players and then with the parents. It always centred on commitment and above all behaviour while participating with the team.

We had one father who was so over the top with his harassment of the young referees that I had him escorted out of the building. I met him after the game and told him flat out it was his last chance. If he couldn't keep his shit together at any game or practise, he was no longer welcome. I followed up with a letter from the Association President stating all of those issues in writing.

The next game he threw a garbage can at a referee. The sad side of this was the kid was a great team player and consistently tried to make up for his father's spinning out of control. The son quit the team which in effect made his father also quit coming to any practise or game.

 

[Aleister Crowley]

my apologies for inadvertently hijacking your thread

apology accepted ... this is a very highly emotional thread to many of us and i guess we all have opinions .... so rant on !!!

 

[Aleister Crowley]

Hopefully this was not at the hands of some nut bar deranged Hockey Parent!

I also have been involved with minor hockey at various levels of abilities and each level has its own separate "intensity" of well meaning but sometimes way over the top parents.

We always had two meetings at the beginning of the year with the players and then with the parents. It always centred on commitment and above all behaviour while participating with the team.

We had one father who was so over the top with his harassment of the young referees that I had him escorted out of the building. I met him after the game and told him flat out it was his last chance. If he couldn't keep his shit together at any game or practise, he was no longer welcome. I followed up with a letter from the Association President stating all of those issues in writing.

The next game he threw a garbage can at a referee. The sad side of this was the kid was a great team player and consistently tried to make up for his father's spinning out of control. The son quit the team which in effect made his father also quit coming to any practise or game.

i understand and thats our point.... there are some real nutbars out there that show the phyco side of themselves at those games .... so thats our point..... they RCMP should be putting some focus on that.

 

[PlayfulAlex]

Hopefully this was not at the hands of some nut bar deranged Hockey Parent!

I also have been involved with minor hockey at various levels of abilities and each level has its own separate "intensity" of well meaning but sometimes way over the top parents.

We always had two meetings at the beginning of the year with the players and then with the parents. It always centred on commitment and above all behaviour while participating with the team.

We had one father who was so over the top with his harassment of the young referees that I had him escorted out of the building. I met him after the game and told him flat out it was his last chance. If he couldn't keep his shit together at any game or practise, he was no longer welcome. I followed up with a letter from the Association President stating all of those issues in writing.

The next game he threw a garbage can at a referee. The sad side of this was the kid was a great team player and consistently tried to make up for his father's spinning out of control. The son quit the team which in effect made his father also quit coming to any practise or game.

This is a huge issue in youth sports: http://digitalcommons.law.villanova.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1141&context=mslj

The hard thing for me to wrap my brain around is that violence on the rink is encouraged, so isn't there a correlation with violence in the stands (ie. parents and fans) and off the rink? How can people be expected to separate the two?

 

[Aleister Crowley]

your wrong , the violence on ice is not encouraged ...
it happens , in that type of game with sticks and hits ...it just happens and if you dont protect and stand up for yourself or team mate then the hitter or offender will do it or not again.
you cannot ever take the fighting out of hockey ....it will ruin hockey.
but that and this comment are off topic of thread......

 

[PlayfulAlex]

your wrong , the violence on ice is not encouraged ...
it happens , in that type of game with sticks and hits ...it just happens and if you dont protect and stand up for yourself or team mate then the hitter or offender will do it or not again.
you cannot ever take the fighting out of hockey ....it will ruin hockey.
but that and this comment are off topic of thread......

Thanks for your reply...from a hockey outsider's pov, on-ice violence is encouraged in hockey, that's all I have to say on that.

As for the original topic of the thread, there is no such thing as off topic, since threads often cause people to think about other similar/related topics and you can watch them morph in different directions. My most recent comment/question here in no reduces my sympathy or concern for this family, as my previous comments in the thread convey quite clearly.

 

[Aleister Crowley]

Thanks for your reply...from a hockey outsider's pov, on-ice violence is encouraged in hockey, that's all I have to say on that.

As for the original topic of the thread, there is no such thing as off topic, since threads often cause people to think about other similar/related topics and you can watch them morph in different directions. My most recent comment/question here in no reduces my sympathy or concern for this family, as my previous comments in the thread convey quite clearly.

Once again i correct you... your POV is distorted . It is not encouraged !!!

 

[huggzy]

your wrong , the violence on ice is not encouraged ...
it happens , in that type of game with sticks and hits ...it just happens and if you dont protect and stand up for yourself or team mate then the hitter or offender will do it or not again.
you cannot ever take the fighting out of hockey ....it will ruin hockey.
but that and this comment are off topic of thread......

Of course violence is encouraged in hockey and the entire concept that fighting is needed in order to police opposing players from using their sticks or taking liberties is ridiculous. Referees and league commitment is what is required to cut violence out of hockey. There are many tough, high contact sports where officials have a very high level of control of all players and all but eliminate much of the extraneous violence that is so prevalent in hockey.

Look at rugby for one. If a player is caught throwing a single punch or for dirty play he is sin-binned for 10 minutes - a very large penalty. Referees will red-card players if anything gets even remotely close to the violence that seems to be accepted in hockey - and that team plays a man down the entire remainder of the match (never mind that the player will likely have a league hearing to determine if further suspensions are required). And if a referee doesn't catch the offense during play he is still subject to video review and later suspensions.

If a guy has a history of violent play he is likely to get a lengthy ban if not kicked out of their union.

The result is that it is rare to see fighting in rugby and the sport for the most part is played extremely tough but gentlemanly.

Players who made careers out of fighting in the NHL wouldn't last 1/2 a season in a sport like rugby nor would shit disturbers like Marchand or Cooke last.

And to say that violence is "needed" or else the game is ruined? The best hockey to watch is Olympic and international hockey and you almost never see that kind of violence.

If I want to see fighting for sport I'll watch professional MMA or boxing where the participants at least having some skill. Violence in hockey is what ruins the sport - it doesn't make it (never mind that hockey brawls are ridiculous bad displays of fighting prowess as well)

 

[badbadboy]

Of course violence is encouraged in hockey and the entire concept that fighting is needed in order to police opposing players from using their sticks or taking liberties is ridiculous. Referees and league commitment is what is required to cut violence out of hockey. There are many tough, high contact sports where officials have a very high level of control of all players and all but eliminate much of the extraneous violence that is so prevalent in hockey.

Look at rugby for one. If a player is caught throwing a single punch or for dirty play he is sin-binned for 10 minutes - a very large penalty. Referees will red-card players if anything gets even remotely close to the violence that seems to be accepted in hockey - and that team plays a man down the entire remainder of the match (never mind that the player will likely have a league hearing to determine if further suspensions are required). And if a referee doesn't catch the offense during play he is still subject to video review and later suspensions.

If a guy has a history of violent play he is likely to get a lengthy ban if not kicked out of their union.

The result is that it is rare to see fighting in rugby and the sport for the most part is played extremely tough but gentlemanly.

Players who made careers out of fighting in the NHL wouldn't last 1/2 a season in a sport like rugby nor would shit disturbers like Marchand or Cooke last.

And to say that violence is "needed" or else the game is ruined? The best hockey to watch is Olympic and international hockey and you almost never see that kind of violence.

If I want to see fighting for sport I'll watch professional MMA or boxing where the participants at least having some skill. Violence in hockey is what ruins the sport - it doesn't make it (never mind that hockey brawls are ridiculous bad displays of fighting prowess as well)

You have obviously never played against the VPD Rugby Team in the local leagues. The entire field is surrounded by VPD Cars, all their fans are in uniform and they were the worst goons in the league when I used to play. From the first whistle to the end of the game they concentrated on injuring other players and the fans taunt you for retaliating against their players. The refs were all terrified of them and turn a blind eye to a lot of their shit.

i made a clean hit direct tackle to their fly half's chest and head which put him out of the game. I was taunted continually throughout the game to try to get me off my game. Luckily, our hooker took a huge punch in the face from their hooker and the ref finally had to step in to break the two teams apart.

Not exactly a gentleman's sport.


=================================

Back to the original topic. No "good" coach ever tells one of their ice hockey players to go get someone in the minor leagues. They do say play hard on the puck, own the boards and don't let them take any cheap shots at our skill players. Everything is emphasized to do it under the rules of the game. You want to see some dirty hockey played by goons; go watch a women's game. The stick work and behind the play cheap shots are outrageous.

I have been in games where the Parents chirping at other parents has turned into fights. Typically those situations are diffused pretty quickly because the rink management will call the local police to intercede rather than put their employees at risk.

 

[vancity_cowboy]

The best hockey to watch is Olympic and international hockey...

oh you mean like the donnybrook that broke out between sweden and russia the other morning in the iihf junior championships?

international hockey at its finest :nod:

looks to me like players even came off the bench to join the brawl, something that doesn't happen now in north american hockey - not at that level

 

[CJ Tylers]

You have obviously never played against the VPD Rugby Team in the local leagues. The entire field is surrounded by VPD Cars, all their fans are in uniform and they were the worst goons in the league when I used to play. From the first whistle to the end of the game they concentrated on injuring other players and the fans taunt you for retaliating against their players. The refs were all terrified of them and turn a blind eye to a lot of their shit.

i made a clean hit direct tackle to their fly half's chest and head which put him out of the game. I was taunted continually throughout the game to try to get me off my game. Luckily, our hooker took a huge punch in the face from their hooker and the ref finally had to step in to break the two teams apart.

Not exactly a gentleman's sport.


=================================

Back to the original topic. No "good" coach ever tells one of their ice hockey players to go get someone in the minor leagues. They do say play hard on the puck, own the boards and don't let them take any cheap shots at our skill players. Everything is emphasized to do it under the rules of the game. You want to see some dirty hockey played by goons; go watch a women's game. The stick work and behind the play cheap shots are outrageous.

I have been in games where the Parents chirping at other parents has turned into fights. Typically those situations are diffused pretty quickly because the rink management will call the local police to intercede rather than put their employees at risk.

The problem is that there probably isn't a single gentleman in the VPD, that's interested in ruggers. I used to play, and people played rough.. but actual fights usually only happened after the game ended. Honestly, guys wanting to brawl bring down the team.

Besides, there are ways on the field of displaying your displeasure. Racking in the scrum, harder hits, an "oops" knee to the face, and accidental elbow on a tackle or in the scrum. It happens.

 

[vancity_cowboy]

rugby = a game with ruffian's rules played by gentlemen

soccer = a game with gentleman's rules played by ruffians