Sex Purchase ban discussion at Conservative Convention....

badbadboy

Well-known member
Nov 2, 2006
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In Lust Mostly
the focus of their policy is pooners, not sp's. so it would be about the pooner avoiding stings not the sp. its clear from the policy that sp's are all viewed as victims as per mellissa farely research and of course harpers best buddy benjamin perrin....i have enjoyed perrin's embroilment in the senate scandal...hearing his name during all the accusations being flung around feels good....hope he's sweatin' buckets....

we have been trying to battle the criminalization of sex buyers for years. this is why i hope people will add their voices to the research that's underway so we have something we can use to combat the myths and lies about human trafficking and the sex industry over all.
Well that certainly would take away an incentive to TOFFT!

I didn't realize it was the johns in general that the Republicans, I mean Conservatives were after in this next move. From what I read on the Nordic model it was an overall review of our situation in Canada with a focus on the Women who are marginalized, imported from other countries and forced into prostitution etc.

I sure hope the Liberals come up with a decent candidate in my riding next election because the last one nobody had ever heard of and had zero background in politics etc.
 

susi

Sassy Strumpette
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@the Meat Market!!!lol
that's the problem, marginalized women represent 10% of the industry. if we base policy on the idea that all sex workers are victims and all john's predators looking for little girls vagina's to enslave...their words not mine....then we are going to have a disaster for our industry in canada.

it is not working in sweden and it certainly will not work here. criminalization of either side of a consentual arrangement, will only further marginalize the women it supposedly aims to protect.
 

badbadboy

Well-known member
Nov 2, 2006
9,547
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In Lust Mostly
that's the problem, marginalized women represent 10% of the industry. if we base policy on the idea that all sex workers are victims and all john's predators looking for little girls vagina's to enslave...their words not mine....then we are going to have a disaster for our industry in canada.

it is not working in sweden and it certainly will not work here. criminalization of either side of a consentual arrangement, will only further marginalize the women it supposedly aims to protect.
Oh I believe all that you say and thanks for the clarification. Keep up the good work!
 
the focus of their policy is pooners, not sp's. so it would be about the pooner avoiding stings not the sp. its clear from the policy that sp's are all viewed as victims as per mellissa farely research and of course harpers best buddy benjamin perrin....i have enjoyed perrin's embroilment in the senate scandal...hearing his name during all the accusations being flung around feels good....hope he's sweatin' buckets....

we have been trying to battle the criminalization of sex buyers for years. this is why i hope people will add their voices to the research that's underway so we have something we can use to combat the myths and lies about human trafficking and the sex industry over all.
So all the more reason for boards like this and dealing with reputable providers.
 

HankQuinlan

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Sep 7, 2002
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I didn't realize it was the johns in general that the Republicans, I mean Conservatives were after in this next move. From what I read on the Nordic model it was an overall review of our situation in Canada with a focus on the Women who are marginalized, imported from other countries and forced into prostitution etc.
And to make it even clearer: ALL women engaged in prostitution are victims. ALL men who purchase their services are predators. NO woman would voluntarily agree to such an arrangement, and must be protected. That is the current Conservative model.

That is also the way in works in Sweden, Norway, and Iceland. They have a slightly greater excuse, because there are more services available for citizens than there are here....but, of course, it still doesn't work. It just drives it further underground, and makes it harder and more unsafe for the poor victimized women who insist on pursuing the sex trade (against their best interests, of course). If only they are given the skills to work at a crappy job, no woman would engage in sex work.

It is basically a radical feminist idea, that has been co-opted by the Conservatives.
 

Cock Throppled

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Oct 1, 2003
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Conservatives are all about selling to the highest bidder, just as long as it doesn't involve sex.
 

Tugela

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I did warn that something like this would happen when the supreme court started making decisions on the current law. Once the status quo was upset, the Conservatives would find another way, and that way would be to criminalize the act (or part of it).

However, the Sweden approach really only attacks the street walker trade. Prostitution in Sweden probably happens just as much now as it did before, except that it is in secret rather than in the open. Since they don't see the visible manifestations (such as streetwalkers) they assume that their policy is having an effect. It probably did in the short term, but then the industry likely just re-equilibrated for the new circumstances and continued on as before.

At the end of the day the prosecutor still has to prove a charge in court, which would be hard to do outside of a sting since there would be no evidence. Generally that would happen on the streets, not the indoor part of the industry.

I think for the average Canadian, they don't approve of prostitution, but as long as they don't see it they don't really care that much. If it was conducted indoors and discretely I think most people would ignore it. It is the stuff on the streets and the stuff they can see that bothers them.
 
I did warn that something like this would happen when the supreme court started making decisions on the current law. Once the status quo was upset, the Conservatives would find another way, and that way would be to criminalize the act (or part of it).

However, the Sweden approach really only attacks the street walker trade. Prostitution in Sweden probably happens just as much now as it did before, except that it is in secret rather than in the open. Since they don't see the visible manifestations (such as streetwalkers) they assume that their policy is having an effect. It probably did in the short term, but then the industry likely just re-equilibrated for the new circumstances and continued on as before.

At the end of the day the prosecutor still has to prove a charge in court, which would be hard to do outside of a sting since there would be no evidence. Generally that would happen on the streets, not the indoor part of the industry.

I think for the average Canadian, they don't approve of prostitution, but as long as they don't see it they don't really care that much. If it was conducted indoors and discretely I think most people would ignore it. It is the stuff on the streets and the stuff they can see that bothers them.
Hmm and that is what I was picturing. Guys being set up through BP or CL ads in hotel/motel room stings, busting 30 guys in a day or whatever. Just like how the Fort McMurray MLA was busted in Minnesota. But what you are saying is they would be more aggressive with outside workers and not bother the guy going to an AMP or an Indy?
 

Pantherdash

Panther
Apr 2, 2007
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Hmm and that is what I was picturing. Guys being set up through BP or CL ads in hotel/motel room stings, busting 30 guys in a day or whatever. Just like how the Fort McMurray MLA was busted in Minnesota. But what you are saying is they would be more aggressive with outside workers and not bother the guy going to an AMP or an Indy?
Cops in Canada don't have the budgets for that kind of sting. It may happen a few times initially to show it's working but it'll soon go away.

I think Tugela may be right about the future if it all goes to shit with the Conservative fuckwads. Best thing for them is the mushroom diet: Keep them in the dark and feed them shit.

Panther
 

susi

Sassy Strumpette
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@the Meat Market!!!lol
the focus is not simply street walkers. the rad fems/ feminazis are always on about the hidden sex industry indoors. stings like what happened in the us where allen was arrested are focused on that idea.

to think that some how men who purchase from indoor sp's will not be affected, is ignoring the trends in enforcement all over canada. in vancouver we are enjoying the fruits of 11 years of lobbying against enforcement and the small gains we made during that process. here john stings are focused on street workers clients but its not s far reach that they would do it to indoor purchasers as well.

while i understnad that many felt we should keep our mouths shut and not try to change the status quo and that we were better off before attempted law reform, the effects (death toll) were/ are unacceptable. these effects are experienced by the sex workers, not the pooners for the most part.

it drove prices down, it closed places where we work, it forced workers onto the street and into the arms of predators. it had to stop. we had to do something.

for better or for worse, we are in a time of change now. if we stand up, we can create a better future for our industry.

the SCC decisions could come anytime now. here in vancouver we are prepared. other places are already seeing localized bylaw exclusions and mandatory registration,etc. we really need to work as a community against exclusion in decisions moving forward.

i have been working with CAEC members on a plan of sorts and can see we need help, more poeple to work on this.

if people would like to be a part of an email loop where we develop plans, please pm. and if you can make the time please take part in the research currently underway to ensure a balanced view of our lives.
 
Cops in Canada don't have the budgets for that kind of sting. It may happen a few times initially to show it's working but it'll soon go away.

I think Tugela may be right about the future if it all goes to shit with the Conservative fuckwads. Best thing for them is the mushroom diet: Keep them in the dark and feed them shit.

Panther
I respectfully disagree. They do stings in ALberta all the time where they lure SP to their hotel then bust them in the lobby or bar.

There is a board in Alberta that has all the details of i think 3 different stings this month. One in Red Deer, one in Calgary and another in Saskatchewan. All gave ladies tickets with a fine $1000 . So if they have money to bust SPs, they have money to bust pooners in a similar method.

:)
 

SuperGrover

Banned
Mar 5, 2006
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I don't see how guys are so easily caught in stings. Simply start the session by telling the girl: "show more your tits for $40, and then we'll discuss extras". Walk if she doesn't agree.

Unfortunately, the crusaders could still try to "shame the John" for even trying to pay a girl to expose her breasts in a hotel room. It would be nice if we could somehow anonymously donate small sums of money to these guilty-until-proven-innocent Johns whose faces are plastered in the media. Make the crusaders shaming scheme backfire on them.
 

Tugela

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I respectfully disagree. They do stings in ALberta all the time where they lure SP to their hotel then bust them in the lobby or bar.

There is a board in Alberta that has all the details of i think 3 different stings this month. One in Red Deer, one in Calgary and another in Saskatchewan. All gave ladies tickets with a fine $1000 . So if they have money to bust SPs, they have money to bust pooners in a similar method.

:)
That is different, because there are relatively few SPs. If they want to shut down activity they can target them, but doing the reverse is much more expensive and requires many more resources.

I think what you are referring to is a licensing issue, which is a civil offence, not a criminal one, so it is not quite the same in that respect either.

I have no doubt they would do it for a bit, but the way of doing business would just change to account for the new reality and then proceed as before. After all, prostitution is illegal in most of the US, and their efforts to stop it have had no success at all.
 

Tugela

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while i understnad that many felt we should keep our mouths shut and not try to change the status quo and that we were better off before attempted law reform, the effects (death toll) were/ are unacceptable. these effects are experienced by the sex workers, not the pooners for the most part.

it drove prices down, it closed places where we work, it forced workers onto the street and into the arms of predators. it had to stop. we had to do something.
The effect of the changes the Conservatives are proposing will be to make open involvement in prostitution a high risk activity for clients. That in turn will drive it underground, and in that sort of secretive environment you can be sure that organized crime will be in complete control of the industry.

You might think that focussing on the clients would make it easier for the SPs, but that will not be how it plays out. Because of the risk clients will have to take, they will insist that transactions happen out of sight and on their terms, and that will make the girls far more vulnerable to the real predators out there. It will greatly increase the danger they will be exposed to.
 

susi

Sassy Strumpette
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@the Meat Market!!!lol
we have seen the effects of the purchase ban in sweden. you are right, it drives some aspects underground. the indy workers there enjoyed increased business however as since clients knew them, they had reputations as sp's and were known to not be police, clients favour their services now causing a rise in income for the indy sector.

i am an indy, so would potneially benefit from a sex purchase ban.

as an advocate i cannot act in my own self centered interest however and so have been fighting this model for as long as its been around. i have appealed here many times to clients to add their voices and fight against this approach. many people have responded taking part in research, coming to rallies and events, donating to sex worker org's.....

also, i don't think its fair to say the charter challenge has caused the human trafficking panic. the "white slavery panic" and other prohibitive campaigns over the last century have long shown the moralists they can make money through creating moral panic. this is nothing new.

neither is sex worker organizing against them. there's a book called sins in the second city about madames organizing against prohibition of sex work in chicago in the 40's i believe....they lost the battle but fought none the less. as i said before, we are not prepared to face the effects/ harms any more.

the thing you seem to miss is we are aware of the risk, we feel its worth it. in sweden they have 1 sex worker organization in the whole country. in canada we have at least 15...maybe more....18 now i think about it.....

if we can fight and save the lives of workers facing risk and make our industry safe for all who participate, wouldn't it be worth it?

i feel that the swedish model would have come here with or without the charter challenge. the drivers behind that were well underway before the charter challenge began. and here in canada, there are 2 factions of feminism....probably more....but 2 obvious sides and one side hates the other. they are willing to comprimise the lives and safety of other women all in the name of bettering all women. that we, the under deserving disease ridden whores should repent and choose to to do sex work for the betterment of all women. that we should be greatful for our toilette cleaning job and be greatful that (as one feniazi said) that the "good" women don't shoot all of us sex workers for our betrayal of women....i am not kidding...

i feel like feminism has gone too far and that now some are working to "punish" men. advocating in family court can show you a glimsp of that but this implementation of the nordic model and the blaming/ shaming it is based on is sexist. it is sexist against men.

it paints all men as predator, rapist pedophiles....

blaming the chater challenge, the brave women who lead it and those of us who stood and gave evidence is pretty shallow thinking dude... no offense intended ok?

one last thing, not be an asshole but...

we are women....not girls......girls don't work in the sex industry, women do. when you say girls, you infantalize us, we are women and can make our own choices....make sense? just pointing it out....
 

HankQuinlan

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https://www.facebook.com/pages/Jim-Hillyer-MP/414848785245807

this conservative mp has a f$%^ed up survey and is support of the nordic model. anyone who can, please post your opinion on his facebook page....

i left some comments...ehem....
And not only you -- the majority of the comments on that page were negative on his efforts. I also have a feeling you probably know exactly where he got his statistics -- unless he pulled them out of his ass. Way to go. When you google "conservative party convention" under "News", that statement by CAEC inviting delegates to spend social time with Calgary escorts is one of the results, too.
 
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