Next came the sex workers, forcibly HIV tested, publicly humiliated, and imprisoned

[susi]

unbelievable in this day and age. the same thing happened in the concentration camps. sex workers were rounded up then also. i am afraid for the people affected. please sign this petition. just follow the link below;

http://act.watchdog.net/petitions/3322?share_ref=jCtzaSDG6hQ

Tell EU Member States: Save Greek "undesirables" from internment camps!

First migrants and recent immigrants were rounded up from Greece's streets and forced into internment camps.Then they threw the drug users in. Next came the sex workers, forcibly HIV tested, publicly humiliated, and imprisoned.

Now they're coming for transgender men and women — and the list of "undesirables" just keeps longer.

Operation Zeus is a cleansing campaign targeting and imprisoning the most vulnerable members of Greek society, accompanied by spikes in racism, gender hate and homophobia.

There are now at least 5,000 people languishing in these hellholes simply for existing — and this month, while warning trans* men and women to "return to normal" or else, the Greek government announced that camp capacity is about to double.

We call on the EU member states to put the pressure on Greece now to stop this abhorrent cleansing campaign now. We can still save the people persecuted under Operation Zeus — but we can't afford to stay silent for long!

PETITION TO EU MEMBER STATES: We cannot afford to sit by while another European country rounds up "undesirables" and imprisons people in camps simply for existing. Let the Greek government know it must release these people now.

 

[VanessaofBC]

Am I reading this correctly. Are you informing us of another holocaust?

edit: I signed it and sent a donation. That is sickening to read.

 

[Bartdude]

Certainly extreme right-wing/fascist ideology is on the rise in Europe; not surprising, given the economic crisis and political gridlock that exists in many European nations.

The "Golden Dawn" party is hugely popular now in Greece, and they are basically Nazi wannabes. Fascist movements are also on the rise in the Scandinavian countries, Germany, Spain, and Italy.

 

[VanessaofBC]

Certainly extreme right-wing/fascist ideology is on the rise in Europe; not surprising, given the economic crisis and political gridlock that exists in many European nations.

The "Golden Dawn" party is hugely popular now in Greece, and they are basically Nazi wannabes. Fascist movements are also on the rise in the Scandinavian countries, Germany, Spain, and Italy.

Yeah, they got an interesting flag

 

[juniper]

Reactions in Europe due to the lawlessness caused by unlimited Islamic immigration, rape, violence, criminality, overuse of the welfare system, refusal of said immigrants to integrate, multiculturalism gone to such extremes that the respective cultures of the host nations are disintegrating and one-world advocates are glorying due to the chaos which precedes complete breakdown. Be glad you are in Canada and guard against the factors making such governmental breakdowns inevitable elsewhere. Insist that the Canadian way of life, its respective founding cultures (English, French and Native) and languages are both respected and honoured. Western Europe is just about done. We can view such trending in the USA. What Susi fails to note are the reasons for far right movements coming into being.

 

[VanessaofBC]

Quick rundown of "Operation Zeus"

SOURCE:http://thebackbencher.co.uk/operation-zeus/

Operation Zeus
BACKBENCHER JULY 10, 2013

Perhaps ‘Operation Zeus’ is not a phrase you may be familiar with; in fact, before stumbling upon it recently, neither was I myself. You can hardly expect the immigration policy of a country like Greece, already embroiled in deep economic turmoil, to make the 6 O’Clock news. But it should.

Greece has long been a gateway into Europe for immigrants, particularly those from North Africa and Turkey, though not always doing this legally. When the Greek economy collapsed, many of these immigrants were made homeless, with their work drying up – they can now be found begging in most major cities.

In August 2012 the Greek Government, a chaotic combination of the centre-right New Democracy and the Pan-Hellenic Socialist Movement brought into law Operation Xenios Zeus, along with strong rhetoric blaming the rise in crime and social unrest on migrants in Greek cities. It is a law which is supposed to provide a crackdown on illegal immigrants, providing authorities with new, far reaching stop and search powers. Ironically Xenios Zeus translates as “Zeus the hospitable”.

The attitude in Greece towards immigrants is growing ever more hostile. In January a South Korean tourist was handcuffed, beaten on three separate occasions, had his passport confiscated and was dragged to the police station. They had thought he was an immigrant.

Greek police now have the power to stop and search anyone, without the need for any suspicion of wrong-doing or criminal activity. Just as worrying as the numerous reports of physical abuse during these searches is the constant demand from the Greek police for ID documents. “Das papiere”.

To date, 84,000 “suspected immigrants” have been detained and searched in this manor, with over 10,000 of those in the last month alone. Should they be found not to have the correct papers, or be an illegal immigrant, they will be sent to one of Greece’s new internment camps in Amygdaleza. It consists of disused military facilities with barbed wire fences and security patrol; a curious financial outlay for a state mired in such economic quagmire.

On the 6th March this year Operation Thetis (a rather similar law) was launched. The target of this law however is drug users. Greek police have been granted the additional power to pick up and detain drug users off the street and transfer them to one of the internment camps, where they are forcibly medically examined before release.

Another consequence of Operation Zeus, perhaps unforeseen, is the confusion surrounding the ID documents of transgender people. This has led to them being detained for lengthy periods of time whilst they try and prove their identity, which for many can be an unpleasant and humiliating procedure.

A small nation in economic turmoil turning on those who are different: the parallels are terrifying.

 

[VanessaofBC]

I also saw that Neo-Nazi’s are handing out food:
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2013/07/24/golden-dawn-moves-food-handout-to-hq/

That’s pretty dangerous IMHO.

getting tips from Hamas....

 

[susi]

Reactions in Europe due to the lawlessness caused by unlimited Islamic immigration, rape, violence, criminality, overuse of the welfare system, refusal of said immigrants to integrate, multiculturalism gone to such extremes that the respective cultures of the host nations are disintegrating and one-world advocates are glorying due to the chaos which precedes complete breakdown. Be glad you are in Canada and guard against the factors making such governmental breakdowns inevitable elsewhere. Insist that the Canadian way of life, its respective founding cultures (English, French and Native) and languages are both respected and honoured. Western Europe is just about done. We can view such trending in the USA. What Susi fails to note are the reasons for far right movements coming into being.

for sure, i didn't write the post though. i copied and pasted it. also, i don't feel the same way you do about immigrants or preserving the canadian way of life. we are lucky to live here though. on that i completely agree.

thanks for signing vanessa!!

 

[VanessaofBC]

anything for you susie.

i found these pics too

edit: I think this is deplorable

 

[Tugela]

How do you propose they deal with illegal immigration then? Do nothing?

 

[VanessaofBC]

How do you propose they deal with illegal immigration then? Do nothing?

Return them to their countries instead of holding them in concentration camps. And its not JUST immigrants, it is drug users and transgendered as well sex workers.

Are you saying you support what they are doing in Greece?

 

[juniper]

There are certain concerns which you are not taking into consideration, Vanessa. If Greece seriously tried to return illegal immigrants, there would be a massive reaction because the immigrants and their lawyers would insist that by returning them to their native countries, they would be put at risk and threatened in their respective homelands which, they would maintain, are not democratic in nature. They would use (and abuse) the Courts of Law to delay, perhaps indeterminably, their forced flights. Besides that, there would be an enormous outburst from the leftist (faux) liberal population encapsulated by the EU governing body of which Greece is currently a member and Greece would be penalized for such actions. In other words, Greece is certainly not free to do as it so wishes with its own illegal population.

The second consideration which neither you nor Susi have taken account of is the effect of modernization on the Greek, especially rural, population. We are talking about clans here, not up-to-date urban thinking people. They do not believe in homosexuality nor in promiscuity nor certainly in transgenderism nor do they countenance the terrible sicknesses caused by the AIDS epidemic yet they have been forced to become witnesses and be effected by it. The people are family based yet see their families torn apart. Divorce and individual freedoms are destroying communities much as they have already done in urban areas of western Europe and North America, Canada included. Is it any wonder that Greeks are both bewildered and angered as the new world is approaching. Their age old (ancient) culture is being destroyed before their very eyes. It is no wonder that they are turning towards a kind of fundamentalism as a response to the rapid destruction of their lives, a destruction which they cannot help but view. In fact, one can see this turn of events occurring in other parts of Europe. I, myself, am only surprised that such movements as brought to our attention here have taken so long to mobilize.

 

[VanessaofBC]

Okay, so we will sit back and silently watch as this travesty against human rights is committed. I mean, it's happening all the way on the other side of the WORLD it does not even affect us.

 

[juniper]

You're way out of whack, "peace guy". First, this is a conversation so your snide remark re my logic "such as it is" is out of place. Second, I was not trying to excuse Greeks for their current fundamentalist reaction to the modern world but, rather, trying to explain it. When you read a passage, "peace guy", you need to make every effort to try and understand what the writer is attempting to get at before making a criticism. This is the scholarly approach.

As to the "real problems" and an "US versus THEM" mentality, no, you refuse to see the whole picture. There are real genuine grievances apart from "illegals" taking jobs from natives in tough economic times. You refuse to consider the impact of foreign cultures on native ones although I explained that in my own comments above. You refuse to consider the criminal activities of certain foreign elements although, in some instances, it is appalling. We see it in Great Britain, for instance, to an alarming degree. It is also very evident in the USA. California, the whole state, is falling apart. In both cases, I can offer you references which will make those two statements quite clear. Shutting one's eyes to it in favour of political correctness neither solves the problem nor makes it go away. Recognition of the various problems caused by illegals to the host culture will help frame a comprehensive and clear understanding re the reaction, i.e., Greek fundamentalism. Whether there is a good, political solution, is another matter.

 

[susi]

the point is not to understnad the reaction juniper, it was to creat awareness about what's happening and to mobilize an action- the petition being signed. will the petition work? probably not. but i was not endeavoring to understnad why haters hate. i was moved by the story and that it was not simply "immigrants". the word being used in greece is undesirables. that included sex workers, drug users and trans people.

these camps are not just about immigrants stealing jobs, they are about cleansing society of "undesirables". doesn't that sound familiar....? and dangerous? especially as a sex worker and one of the groups being rounded up, i am afraid...for them and for me....

 

[MissingOne]

You refuse to consider the impact of foreign cultures on native ones ...

I rather expect that an Aboriginal North American might endorse that statement, with respect to the rest of us. Large migrations of people have been both a consequence and a cause of conflict and misery for millennia, and we shouldn't be surprised that it's still going on. It's an intractable problem, which is not to say that we shouldn't do our best to mitigate the consequences.

 

[juniper]

"Creating awareness" without understanding and without clarity leading to "action" is quite dangerous, Susi. I always read what you write with suspicion since I do not think you really analyze your own premises. Your constant advocacy for sex workers no matter the circumstances has become predictable and, quite frankly, rather superficial. You do play to a rather limited audience. No longer impressed.

the point is not to understnad the reaction juniper, it was to creat awareness about what's happening and to mobilize an action- the petition being signed. will the petition work? probably not. but i was not endeavoring to understnad why haters hate. i was moved by the story and that it was not simply "immigrants". the word being used in greece is undesirables. that included sex workers, drug users and trans people.

these camps are not just about immigrants stealing jobs, they are about cleansing society of "undesirables". doesn't that sound familiar....? and dangerous? especially as a sex worker and one of the groups being rounded up, i am afraid...for them and for me....

 

[Bartdude]

and so, by your logic, such that it is, we must also accept the practices of Islamic fundamentalists for the same reasons. NOT.

Greek rural folk may be a bit conservative, as are many rural folk around the world, but they are members of a first world country with generations of exposure to mass media from the world, just like folks in the US bible belt. They have their culture and prejudices by choice, like every other group. Understanding that they have them & why in no way gives license to excuse them, or the American states that have tried to pass similar laws to quell Mexican illegals, or Hungary for similar laws in recent years.

The real problem is one of identity. In tough times, it becomes US versus THEM. US being the 'real people' of the country & THEM is all those foreigners coming and taking our jobs. In tough times, in Greece, US are ethnic Greeks. Hungary? Ethnic Hungarians. USA? White, usually Protestant. Canada? the same.

In the modern world, is this the real pictures of US? No. Are a significant number of those "foreigners" taking jobs that any of the US are willing to do for the wages offered? No. But blaming a scapegoat is easier to do than accept that the economic situation you are in is a result of your own unwillingness to pay the taxes necessary to pay for the services you demanded of your government. They decry 'tax and spend' governments and elect 'borrow & spenders' instead. And go tribal when the chickens come home to roost.

Tend to agree with much of this viewpoint. As far as the U.S. goes, immigrants, illegal and otherwise, make pretty handy scapegoats when it was successive U.S. governments, both Democrat and Republican, in the 90's onward, who joined hands with industry to begin the dismantling of the American economy that made them the powerhouse of the planet for 150 years.

Greece, Italy, Spain, and the Low Countries - certainly part of their seething cauldron of rage has to do with massive waves of immigration that, especially in cases like Sweden and the Netherlands, 'disrupted' (if that's even a fair word to use) rather homogenous societies that had prospered for generations. But much of it, particularly Greece and Italy, has more to do with unrelenting political deadlock (anybody who thinks our election/government system is undemocratic - look to Italy and Greece for why it ain't so bad after all) and, unfortunately, a refusal of the general populations to taper their social spending to match economic change. While that problem certainly was exacerbated by increased immigration, it was far too easy for extreme right-wing groups to claim it was CAUSED by it. The worldwide Islamic movement has to shoulder much of the blame for this, though. The vast majority of Muslims are as peaceful as the non-nutjob Christians and Jews out there - but you'd never know it. They have been an abject failure politically at countering the fundamentalists, wherever they are.

I've voted for political parties on either side of centre, so my views have always tried to be moderate - but the more I look at how governments have dropped the ball with the reckless globalization of our economy over the last 30 years, the more I think we - West and East, N.Am and Europe and China - have made a mess of everything. Toss in the clusterfuck that is the "war on terror" and radical Islam, and I'm sort of glad that I only have another 40-50 years left on this rock.

 

[juniper]

Bartdude, I found your last sentence especially interesting re only "40-50 years left on this rock". Just out of interest, do you have any children? If not, do you forsee yourself having any in the future? If you do, don't you have any concern about their well-being after you have left "this rock"? And, in general, do you have any kind of loyalty towards those generations which will succeed you? And could you explain? I'm asking because I'd like to get a handle on this. You appear to be a very intelligent and articulate man. Perhaps you even represent many others of your generation. Thanks, in advance, for any serious reply.

 

[Bartdude]

Bartdude, I found your last sentence especially interesting re only "40-50 years left on this rock". Just out of interest, do you have any children? If not, do you forsee yourself having any in the future? If you do, don't you have any concern about their well-being after you have left "this rock"? And, in general, do you have any kind of loyalty towards those generations which will succeed you? And could you explain? I'm asking because I'd like to get a handle on this. You appear to be a very intelligent and articulate man. Perhaps you even represent many others of your generation. Thanks, in advance, for any serious reply.

I have no children, nor do I see any of my own in the future. However, I do have a stake in today's youth. Of course I feel a sense of responsibility to the next generations - but I also know the best I can do, short of running for public office, is to help foster the voice of the inquisitive moderate in society, both current and that to come. American civic discourse has become hijacked by extremists, on both sides of the spectrum. Canada's not that much better. Dredge up any political discussion on here and you'll find that out in a hurry.

If an alien race ever does come to Earth, I'm pretty sure they're going to be gobsmacked at what they find.