Zimmerman Trial - Murder Off the Table WTF!!!!!

[FunSugarDaddy]

What would the outcome have been if Martin, when questioned as to reasons for being in a gated community, had instead of violence and bravado responded with, Yes sir, I am staying with the _____'s and I am on my way to home / see my girlfriend.

As far as I know Zimmerman never actually questioned Martin. I believe he was essentially stalked by Zimmerman in some manner and than a confrontation took place. Who started it is speculation, but who initiated the actions to bring about a confrontation isn't speculation. Zimmerman got out of his vehicle for the sole purpose of attempting to confront Martin. According to the witness who talked to Martin on the phone, he was aware that someone was stalking him, but he didn't know who or why. Safe to say he was scared.


You're the 3rd poster to suggest some kind of conversation took place prior to physical contact. Did I miss something? I watched much of the trial (not all) and heard much of the closing arguments and never heard anyone claim there was a conversation that took place prior to any physical contact.

 

[Cock Throppled]

The logical reason for Zimmerman to get out of the car would be to follow Martin to keep him in sight.

The word "stalking" was used, but it could be replaced with "following".

The way this escalated, one of them started a physical altercation. It may have been an over-zealous Zimmerman, it may have been an aggressive Martin.

We'll never know.

 

[FunSugarDaddy]

The logical reason for Zimmerman to get out of the car would be to follow Martin to keep him in sight.

The word "stalking" was used, but it could be replaced with "following".

The way this escalated, one of them started a physical altercation. It may have been an over-zealous Zimmerman, it may have been an aggressive Martin.

We'll never know.

At the end of the day that is pretty much the story we have, which is why a not guilty verdict is the correct one.

 

[FunSugarDaddy]

http://youtu.be/6EYpc9lbQUw

Kingfish is on top of this has interesting comments

Hard to disagree with his comments. I think the real problem in the US is guns and how it's now acceptable to carry them around for self protection and safety. Everyone having a gun does NOT make a community safer. Nobody owning a gun does.

 

[FunSugarDaddy]

Good Luck with that.

Oh it's probably not a solvable situation but it's radically different than it was in the 50's, 60's 70's and even 80's. You probably can't turn back time, but you're sure as hell going to see a lot more of this, a lot more of Sandy Hooks and a lot more people dying by guns. And I personally wouldn't even think of trying to stop it, if that's what they collectively want, that's what they're collectively going to get, until the people who die are the sons and daughters of politicians or the sons and daughters of the NRA BOD.

 

[FunSugarDaddy]

I think it is unreasonable to assume that nothing was said, and in fact, a witness reported hearing an argument between a younger and older man. This witness was interviewed on CNN360.

Well to me that makes things more uncertain, not less. If there was an argument why didn't Zimmermann mention he had a gun? Or don't you think that's a relevant point when he's aware that a fight might break out?

Why didn't they mention this either in the trial or during closing arguments? Was the witness called to testify?

That said, logic sort of suggests that they would have said something to each other prior to a fight, but if I'm not mistaken I think it was Zimmerman who said he was essentially attacked. So if they did have discussion before hand I don't know why the prosecution wouldn't have brought that up to bolster their position.

I personally think Zimmerman, knowing he had a gun, confronted Martin, and when he found himself on the losing end of a fight, perhaps fearing for his life, he shot him. How he managed to unholster the gun, is a bit of a mystery to me, I can only conclude it was unholstered prior to their encounter. But since there was no proof either way who started the fight, and since I firmly believe it was Martin on top of Zimmerman and it was Zimmerman who was yelling for help, the verdict makes sense, and is in fact correct, under these circumstances.

 

[storm rider]

Hard to disagree with his comments. I think the real problem in the US is guns and how it's now acceptable to carry them around for self protection and safety. Everyone having a gun does NOT make a community safer. Nobody owning a gun does.

On the flip side of the coin of your arguement what if somebody had a CCW permit and was watching the Batman premiere at that theatre in Colorado.Say that person was packing a .357 Magnum and was in the first row and after the smoke cannister went off and the first few shots were fired that person pulled out that
cannon of a pistol and decorated the silver screen with a nice color of "hint of brain".The outcome would
have been different from the bloodbath that happened.Maybe 1-3 people migh have been killed and 5-10 wounded and there would not be a long drawn out trial wasting taxpayers money on some douchbag
who knew full well what he was doing and has copped for an insanity plea as he got taken alive.

SR

 

[vancity_cowboy]

On the flip side of the coin of your arguement what if somebody had a CCW permit and was watching the Batman premiere at that theatre in Colorado.Say that person was packing a .357 Magnum and was in the first row and after the smoke cannister went off and the first few shots were fired that person pulled out that
cannon of a pistol and decorated the silver screen with a nice color of "hint of brain".The outcome would
have been different from the bloodbath that happened.Maybe 1-3 people migh have been killed and 5-10 wounded and there would not be a long drawn out trial wasting taxpayers money on some douchbag
who knew full well what he was doing and has copped for an insanity plea as he got taken alive.

SR

i like it...

better yet, what if EVERYBODY in colorado was packin' .357's? maybe douchebag would move to new england or parts of canada!!

 

[FunSugarDaddy]

On the flip side of the coin of your arguement what if somebody had a CCW permit and was watching the Batman premiere at that theatre in Colorado.Say that person was packing a .357 Magnum and was in the first row and after the smoke cannister went off and the first few shots were fired that person pulled out that
cannon of a pistol and decorated the silver screen with a nice color of "hint of brain".The outcome would
have been different from the bloodbath that happened.Maybe 1-3 people migh have been killed and 5-10 wounded and there would not be a long drawn out trial wasting taxpayers money on some douchbag
who knew full well what he was doing and has copped for an insanity plea as he got taken alive.

SR

Oh the dirty Harry theory, I almost forgot about that one.

Since it's so obvious that anyone could do this, do you mind citing me 3-4 circumstances in which this has actually occurred. Hell even one of the top of your head would be nice. And what would be the consequences if this fine gentleman missed and killed someone else by accident?

Don't think that can happen, read below. Here's what happened not too long ago when trained police tried shooting someone.

==========================================================================================================================================

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/was-nypd-responsible-10-11-people-shot-yesterday

The official media-friendly narrative explaining yesterday's latest tragic shooting incident in midtown Manhattan in which a recently unemployed Jeffrey Johnson, 58, walked up to his former boss and shot him three times point blank before "calmly" walking away, is that Johnson also shot 9 other people, luckily none fatally, before being taken down by the NYPD. Sadly, as so often happens these days, the "media-friendly" narrative is wrong, and as CBS and Guardian report, Johnson did not fire during the quote unquote shootout, in which at least nine other perfectly innocent were hit, all of them by stray NYPD bullets.

From CBS: "Police said it is unlikely that Johnson fired during the shootout." Uhm, then isn't shootout a somewhat inaccurate word? "One witness told investigators that Johnson fired, but ballistics tests don’t back that up, authorities said... At least nine other people on the street were also shot, but Mayor Michael Bloomberg said it is unclear whether they were shot by the suspect or police. “Some may have been shot accidentally by police officers who responded immediately,” Bloomberg said." In other words of the (at least) 11 people shot yesterday, 2 of whom fatally, the NYPD was responsible for 10 of those shot, 9 of whom were literally "collateral damage" in a non-shoot out, and should be sacrificing various animals to their assorted guns that the NYPD, in missing their designated target, is at least quite atrocious in hitting any major organs. All of which of course begs the question: is a hit-to-miss (and potentially hit-to-casualty) ratio of less than 10% for New York's finest really acceptable and is this the kind of statistic that NY City wishes to boast in enticing new tourists?

 

[Fudd]

FYI Were trying to get a march for together for Treyvon. Will try to make in for this Sunday where well meet either at Victory Square park where we had the Sunday night vigil or at the VAG. We plan to march to the embassy.

 

[normisanas]

Zimmerman wasn't going around killing black kids, so your argument is absurd.

He killed a guy who attacked him. It is that simple. The fact that the attacker was black and was a teenager has no bearing on that.

He had every right as a resident of the closed neighborhood to confront Martin.

He did NOT have the right to attack Martin, but guess what, there is zero evidence that he did.

Likewise, Martin did NOT have the right to attack Zimmerman, no matter what was said or did if he himself was not being attacked. But the evidence suggests that he DID attack Zimmerman.

The basic principle behind self defence is that when you are ATTACKED, you can defend yourself. Note: someone else being creepy, obnoxious, insulting or whatever does NOT give you the right to attack. Watching TV and other commentary it is pretty clear that a lot of people are confused about this basic principle. The evidence suggests that Zimmerman was being creepy, but that Martin attacked him. The escalation to a physical encounter came with the attack, not with being creepy, and that is where the door to self defence is opened. The criminal act would have begun when Martin attacked, not when Zimmerman shot him. This is the reason he was acquitted.

The only people who know exactly what happened are Martin and Zimmerman, for the rest of us judgement should be based on what evidence there is, not theories, expectations or bias.

Actually I think the case is not as simple as you present it. I too believe that Zimmerman deserved to be acquitted. But unlike you, when you say "that the attacker was black has no bearing" I think is not true.

The whole thing is keyed on race. If Trayvon Martin had been a pretty blonde white girl standing 5'3" wearing a hoodie, Zimmerman would have been found guilty and probably given Murder #1. That Trayvon Martin was black was what helped Zimmerman get off. At the same time, I don't think that Zimmerman was a racist but his reaction was racially motivated. But Zimmerman still deserves to walk free.

The fact of the matter is, police profile people based on race. And so do a lot of law abiding citizens. The case comes down to whether or not Zimmerman acted in self defence. It would have been absurd for him to argue it was self defence to shoot a pretty white girl wearing a hoodie - nobody would have believed it. Most everyone would believe it not absurd to shoot a black man 6 feet tall wearing a hoodie, in self defence, when in fact there has been a lot of crime committed by black males in that gated community recently.

Blacks who decry that this was a racially motivated killing are correct, but that's the only thing they are correct on. If your community has a shitty reputation, and one of your citizens acts like a criminal, dresses like a criminal, and a white person (or hispanic) reacts defensively to it, who do you blame? Is that citizen a racist? Or are blacks themselves being racist by continuing to promote or defend the antisocial behaviour that plagues and stereotypes their own community?

The endless questioning by the media about whether Zimmerman would have reacted differently if Martin was white or asian or anything but black, as the basis for his acquittal, is therefore just stupid. Of course Zimmerman acted to the extreme measure he did because Martin was black, a typical threatening black man at that, and he deserves the acquittal because it was reasonable to say that the black man presented a threat.

 

[vancity_cowboy]

FYI Were trying to get a march for together for Treyvon. Will try to make in for this Sunday where well meet either at Victory Square park where we had the Sunday night vigil or at the VAG. We plan to march to the embassy.

just don't wear hoodies...

 

[VanessaofBC]

just don't wear hoodies...

Have you been drinking? Who say things like this!?!?! I think Fudd is being serious!

 

[Tugela]

Actually I think the case is not as simple as you present it. I too believe that Zimmerman deserved to be acquitted. But unlike you, when you say "that the attacker was black has no bearing" I think is not true.

The whole thing is keyed on race. If Trayvon Martin had been a pretty blonde white girl standing 5'3" wearing a hoodie, Zimmerman would have been found guilty and probably given Murder #1. That Trayvon Martin was black was what helped Zimmerman get off. At the same time, I don't think that Zimmerman was a racist but his reaction was racially motivated. But Zimmerman still deserves to walk free.

The fact of the matter is, police profile people based on race. And so do a lot of law abiding citizens. The case comes down to whether or not Zimmerman acted in self defence. It would have been absurd for him to argue it was self defence to shoot a pretty white girl wearing a hoodie - nobody would have believed it. Most everyone would believe it not absurd to shoot a black man 6 feet tall wearing a hoodie, in self defence, when in fact there has been a lot of crime committed by black males in that gated community recently.

Blacks who decry that this was a racially motivated killing are correct, but that's the only thing they are correct on. If your community has a shitty reputation, and one of your citizens acts like a criminal, dresses like a criminal, and a white person (or hispanic) reacts defensively to it, who do you blame? Is that citizen a racist? Or are blacks themselves being racist by continuing to promote or defend the antisocial behaviour that plagues and stereotypes their own community?

The endless questioning by the media about whether Zimmerman would have reacted differently if Martin was white or asian or anything but black, as the basis for his acquittal, is therefore just stupid. Of course Zimmerman acted to the extreme measure he did because Martin was black, a typical threatening black man at that, and he deserves the acquittal because it was reasonable to say that the black man presented a threat.

He didn't shoot Martin because he was wearing a hoodie, he shot him because he was beating his head into concrete. Everyone seems to be forgetting that.

If Martin had been a young white girl beating Zimmerman's head into concrete after overpowering him, he would have been just as justified in shooting Martin and probably would have done so.

I agree there is a racist element in this case, but it isn't Zimmerman and his actions, it is that of observers who assume that because Martin was black Zimmerman must be convicted. He has to be charged and convicted because otherwise protesters might riot and burn the town down, or because Zimmerman was Hispanic and Martin was black, it had to be racist and delibrate. The fact that Zimmerman might just be innocent of the allegations does not even enter in the picture as a consideration. They keep on talking about the "black experience", even though that has nothing to do with the specific facts of this case, and they want to convict Zimmerman on that basis. That is so fucked up, and what is even more shocking is that no one says anything about it.

On CNN the other night they were talking to some jurors from the OJ trial. There was this black guy who felt that OJ was absolutely innocent, but thought that Zimmerman was for sure guilty of murder and was prepared to convict him without hesitation. If that is not blatant racism then I don't know what is. Basically his position appeared to be that as a juror he would be on the side of the black guy no matter what the actual facts and evidence of the case was. And it is not just him, just about every black commentator/talking head they have had on CNN seemed to think that it was a slam dunk guilty verdict for murder, even though it was pretty obvious from the evidence that was not going to fly. Are these guys really that clueless? No, it is racism. I've seen crapload of that in my youth, I know what it looks and sounds like. The only difference is that this time it was black guys saying these sorts of things instead of white guys, and they don't see anything wrong with their attitude. Then, when the aquital came, it was because the jurors did not "understand" the issues, or that not enough emotive argument was made to sway them the other way (the evidence was not enough?), or the implication was made that the jurors were biased.

It is all BS, the attitude of a lot of people is quite shocking.

 

[Miss*Bijou]

George Zimmerman should not be visiting gun factories

The attorney who helped murder defendant George Zimmerman win a controversial acquittal last month was frustrated to learn his client toured a gun factory on Thursday.

According to TMZ, the former neighborhood crime watchman visited Kel-Tec firearms, the company that manufactured the semi-automatic handgun Zimmerman used in the fatal confrontation with Trayvon Martin.

“We certainly would not have advised him to go to the factory that made the gun that he used to shoot Trayvon Martin through the heart,” Shawn Vincent, a spokesman for attorney Mark O’Mara, told Yahoo News. “That was not part of our public relations plan.”

News of Zimmerman’s visit to the gunmaker comes just six weeks after a jury found him not guilty in the 2012 shooting death of Martin, an unarmed black teenager in Sanford, Fla. The trial was televised to a wide audience, and his acquittal led to nationwide protests and prompted President Barack Obama to speak out on the case.

According to the TMZ story, Zimmerman got a personal tour of the Cocoa, Fla., facility from the son of Kel-Tec’s founder and owner. The story includes a picture of Zimmerman and a man wearing a Kel-Tec shirt. TMZ says it was taken on the assembly plant floor. The entertainment website reported that Zimmerman inquired about purchasing a tactical shotgun; however Kel-Tec’s website says the company doesn't sell firearms directly to the public.

Late Friday afternoon, Kel-Tec sent Yahoo News a statement “concerning this leaked bit of information by someone unassociated with Kel-Tec.”

“He simply wanted to see the manufacturing facility,” the statement said of Zimmerman's visit. “This is a common occurrence with our customer base that live close by or may be traveling through.”

The statement implied that Zimmerman specifically inquired about a tactical shotgun he is apparently interested in purchasing.

“The Kel-Tec KSG is one of the most desired products in the industry, and can be very difficult to acquire due to supply and demand,” the company said. “Many individuals like to come by the plant to actually see the product and how it is made.”

Kel-Tec, one of the country's largest producers of handguns, said it did not want to gain recognition because of Martin's death. “Kel-Tec's thoughts and prayers go out to everyone whose lives were forever changed,” the statement said.

At trial, Zimmerman’s defense team argued that their client killed Martin in self defense when the teen began beating him. The gun involved in the shooting is now with the U.S. Justice Department, which is reviewing the case for possible federal charges. Attorneys have said that Zimmerman, who is licensed to carry a concealed weapon in Florida, planned to continue to arm himself because of threats against his life. “Security is, has been, and continues to be of great concern to every member of our family for obvious reasons,” his brother, Robert Zimmerman, wrote in an email to Yahoo News.

O’Mara still represents Zimmerman on sanctions his firm filed against Florida prosecutors for allegedly withholding case discovery, and in a defamation lawsuit against NBC News. Vincent says O'Mara and Zimmerman are in contact about once a week. “From that perspective, we are George’s legal representation, but I don’t think he takes our advice on how he lives his life or what factories he decides to tour,” Vincent told Yahoo News. “We represented him in court. We got the verdict that we believe is just, and the rest of George’s life is up to George.”

But Vincent acknowledged that the timing of the factory tour was not well planned, especially since Zimmerman has become a lightning rod in the debate on gun and self defense rights. “If you’re a public figure and you represent people’s opinion on those issues, then what you do in context is important for sure,” Vincent said.

Robert Zimmerman made no apologies for his brother's visit to Kel-Tec. “Every criminal defendant is presumed innocent until or unless proven guilty,” he wrote to Yahoo News. “When a defendant is acquitted the presumption of innocence is maintained in our society. George is a free man and as such is entitled to visit, tour, frequent or patronize any business or locale he wishes.”

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/lawyer-george-zimmerman-should-not-be-visiting-gun-factories-174609071.html

Yah I saw that too. Seriously, what a douchebag.



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[PlayfulAlex]

I'm sure that George is a hero in many circles...

 

[VanessaofBC]

Yah I saw that too. Seriously, what a douchebag.



<a target='_blank' title='ImageShack - Image And Video Hosting' href='http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/0r74.png/'><img src='http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/2426/0r74.png' border='0'/></a>

Oh, leave it to good old TMZ......

 

[PlayfulAlex]

August 29, 2013

Well, this was only a matter of time:

"Shellie Zimmerman, the wife of George Zimmerman -- who was acquitted of second-degree murder in Trayvon Martin's death -- pleaded guilty Wednesday to a misdemeanor charge of perjury."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/28/justice/florida-zimmerman-wife/?iref=obinsite

 

[Miss*Bijou]

Zimmerman Taken into Custody After Wife Reports Threats, Assault on Father
<div style="max-width: 600px;">
<a href="http://www.democracynow.org/2013/9/10/headlines">
<img src="http://www.curate.us/i/q/10PlP.png" width="100%" alt="George Zimmerman was taken into custody in Florida Monday following a panicked 911 call from his wife, Shellie, who told a dispatcher Zimmerman had assaulted her father and made threats with a gun.

Shellie Zimmerman: "He�s in his car, and he continually has his hand on his gun, and he keeps saying, 'Step closer.' He�s just threatening all of us with his firearm."">
</a>
Pure class, that guy is...