Sexism at the border - I'm sorry but this is despicable!!

[Porscha]

When they scan your passport, your entire recorded history is displayed. I don’t know what all is there, but it certainly isn’t just convictions.

I travel as a companion with one of my clients regularly. In the 1970’s, 30 years ago, he was at a bar in United States where the cops showed up and apparently people were busted for drugs. Wrong place at the wrong time. He was arrested , and then later charges dropped and he received a pardon because he wasn’t guilty of anything. No drugs or alcohol in his system, didn’t know the people busted.

EVERY TTIME we cross into the US, he is flagged by the US Customs. He has to produce this Official Letter stating his Pardon. Then they search every piece of his and my luggage. They are polite and thorough. They remind him to never lose the letter and bring it EVERY time. Coming back to Canada or going to any other country is never an issue.

Needless to say, my Porscha cell and computer stay home. I also buy new lingerie for the holiday.

So that’s my experience – he Male, and 30 Years after receiving a Pardon for something he didn't do, he is questioned and we are both searched EVERY time we enter the United States

Whatever this woman did (or didn't do) that caused her to be "flagged", is probably going to cause issues for a long, long, time.

 

[lenny]

Customs officers in the OP seem like they may have been watching too much of 24 & identifying with Jack Bauer interrogation techniques. Perhaps like Jack they think this is helping them "save the nation". I doubt their methods would find them innocent in a presidential inquiry.

 

[huggzy]

I think sometimes it goes too far, and this is one of those cases. Without proof of her working illegally in the country, or doing anything illegal, it is not ok (IMO) to detain and harass her. Do you think that berating her for having condoms and travelling with a married man is just doing their job?

I understand if someone seems suspicious for drugs, weapons, smuggling, or working illegally... but speculation and harassment is another story entirely.

Three other important things you forgot to mention:

1. she didn't have any stated current occupation (this is likely the biggest red flag)
2. she was being indignant/belligerent
3. she was, in fact, eventually allowed through the border.

And no one likes being "harrassed", but believe me she isn't being harrassed due to sexism. She is being harrassed because this is their interrogation technique.

Again...try being accused of carrying explosives on a plane - and then you'll really find out what being "harrassed" is.

 

[susi]

You are missing the bits where:
(A) It is completely illegal to be a prostitute in allmost all of the US.
(B) It is completely illegal to enter the US with the intent of working without a visa.

There are no ifs, buts or anything else about it, it is very clear, and it is their job to filter out people intending to do those sorts of things.

Sticking your head in the sand isn't going to change those basic facts. Pretending that laws don't exist when you darn well know they do, is, well......

It has nothing to do with oppression. You just make yourself look foolish saying stuff like that. How do you expect people to take your comments seriously?

there was no proof of her being an escort or intending to work. other workers have been detained and arrested for having a website stating they are an escort, legal in canada, while attempting to visit family in the US....with no intention of working as an escort. they have been charged with prsotitution when no crime occured and questioned for hours about who their "pimp" is. they are taught we are all pimped so believe us to be liars when we say we're indy....

what about in aruba where the customs agent asks her if she wants to be sexually assaulted? does she deserve that too? is that reasonable behaviour in light of increased border security?

this shit is happeneing more and more and i for one believe its the direct result of the anti trafficking measures being implemented across the globe to save sex workers who are ALL trafficking victims.

did you read the rest of the post with the new rules for the canadian border? why do you think its focused on sex work so much? its anti trafficking...thankyou joy smith mp from winnipeg....i have been fighting this for years tug....

maybe if you read my entire post you won't look so foolish in your response.

love susie

 

[huggzy]

there was no proof of her being an escort or intending to work. other workers have been detained and arrested for having a website stating they are an escort, legal in canada, while attempting to visit family in the US....with no intention of working as an escort. they have been charged with prsotitution when no crime occured and questioned for hours about who their "pimp" is. they are taught we are all pimped so believe us to be liars when we say we're indy....

what about in aruba where the customs agent asks her if she wants to be sexually assaulted? does she deserve that too? is that reasonable behaviour in light of increased border security?

this shit is happeneing more and more and i for one believe its the direct result of the anti trafficking measures being implemented across the globe to save sex workers who are ALL trafficking victims.

did you read the rest of the post with the new rules for the canadian border? why do you think its focused on sex work so much? its anti trafficking...thankyou joy smith mp from winnipeg....i have been fighting this for years tug....

maybe if you read my entire post you won't look so foolish in your response.

love susie

You're missing the point.

They don't need "proof"...they are looking for proof. But there are flags that come up which raise suspicions which is all that they do need.

The border is not a law court - they do not need to exceed a threshhold "beyond a reasonable doubt" to turn you back. As a matter of course, they could (and probably have) kicked people out for being ugly if they wanted. But at the end of the day this woman was allowed through the border because they were eventually satisfied that she wasn't breaking any laws.

If people don't like getting harrassed and questioned then I would suggest that one place a person should avoid is crossing international borders. They do not have to treat you nice there.

But if you took a poll from this site I would bet that there would be a large contingent that would suspect that this woman was possibly an escort based on the information given. Was there "proof"? No. But the guard found enough red flags to have reasonable grounds to interrogate further.

 

[susi]

ok, but that is not the point i am making. i understand its their job, i understand they are trained to do that, i understand that its a systematic problem....

does that make it right? no. that is my point.

i am not saying the fault always lies with border guards, i am saying the problem lies with the policy directive/ laws as outlined in one of my earlier posts.

especially when entering canada, where prostitution is NOT illegal. as far as i can tell exotic dancing is not illegal in either country so why is it mentioned over and over? why are exotic dancers not allowed to enter and work in canada?

my problem is with the "red flags". they are not based on reality. a trafficking victim would not (IMHO) strut up to the border and present herself, condoms lingerie and all....one would think that it would be a meek scared looking woman who looks nervous about interaction with border guards....no?

i understand that there are laws in place and that the law is the law.

but does that mean we shouldn't fight it? we should accept it? after all we're prostitutes so we know what we got ourselves into?

if people didn't fight bad laws and policies we would still have slavery, abortion would be illegal, being gay would be illegal and beating your wife with a stick with a width no bigger than your thumb would still be legal....

is that so hard to understand? as citizens we have a right to be outraged at this kind of thing and an obligation to try to dismantle laws which cause harm....

love susie

 

[wilde]

Here is a news flash for all you ladies that think this is an outrage. Young, single women coming into Canada alone gets grilled by immigration more than you know. The presumption is that these women are coming into the country looking for a way to stay through marriage, fake or otherwise. A couple of my friends and my ex can attest to that.

 

[vancity_cowboy]

i understand that there are laws in place and that the law is the law.

but does that mean we shouldn't fight it? we should accept it? after all we're prostitutes so we know what we got ourselves into?

if people didn't fight bad laws and policies we would still have slavery, abortion would be illegal, being gay would be illegal and beating your wife with a stick with a width no bigger than your thumb would still be legal....

is that so hard to understand? as citizens we have a right to be outraged at this kind of thing and an obligation to try to dismantle laws which cause harm....
love susie

agreed Susie; however, do we have that obligation in a country other than our own?

such as the usa?

i respectfully submit, no

in the usa you have the right to remain silent... if you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you

 

[Pillowtalk]

Neither the US nor the Canadian border guards are under any obligation to prove anything about anyone. They can refuse entry for any one of the reasons they have available to them.

And imo, they are just as vigilant, and probably even more so, about anyone they suspect of trying to enter their countries to work without work permits. If sex workers consistently and constantly want to circumvent the laws either of Canada or the US, then they will also have to accept the penalties of doing this, just like the resort worker from Austria who comes into Canada to get that under-the-table job again in Whistler. Those people are refused entry all the time as well, and for just as valid a reason as anything else. Will a bartender from Australia upset the fabric of US society by entering the country on a tourist visa knowing he has a job in Vegas starting in two days? Probably not, but it is still illegal to work anywhere as a non-citizen without the proper paperwork.

While the subject of the OP or any other woman shouldn't necessarily go through a shake down under the suspicion of being a sex worker, it is going to happen. Just like if a guy from Ireland was working in Canada a year ago on a proper visa, met a girl, fell in love, couldn't get another work visa, but wants to see his girl, so he comes back to Canada on a tourist visa to see her. He too is going to get grilled, the girl and her mother will get phone calls, his phone and emails are going to be sifted through looking for evidence that while visiting his girl he will also be working for her father, the guy who hired him last time.

Chinese visitors often get their luggage rifled through because they seem to have a tendency to bring in favourite meat products, which is currently prohibited.

And for those people who come into any country with a lie, stop. Because if and when they want to check up on the relative you are coming to visit, the girlfriend who is having that bachelorette party in Vegas, or the guy traveling beside you isn't with you, and you are caught in that lie, they will simply refuse entry and your entire vacation (working or otherwise) is out the window. Get a truth, and stick to it. By get a truth I mean find a valid non sex work related reason for going into the US, or traveling through it, and get the back up to back up your story, and don't mess with that because the day you get caught will be the day you will find yourself with a one year or permanent ban from entering the country ever.

re: the waiver, seems to me a cash grab, it costs over $500 to get one, lasts a year so you'll need another one soon enough.

 

[huggzy]

ok, but that is not the point i am making. i understand its their job, i understand they are trained to do that, i understand that its a systematic problem....

does that make it right? no. that is my point.

i am not saying the fault always lies with border guards, i am saying the problem lies with the policy directive/ laws as outlined in one of my earlier posts.

especially when entering canada, where prostitution is NOT illegal. as far as i can tell exotic dancing is not illegal in either country so why is it mentioned over and over? why are exotic dancers not allowed to enter and work in canada?

my problem is with the "red flags". they are not based on reality. a trafficking victim would not (IMHO) strut up to the border and present herself, condoms lingerie and all....one would think that it would be a meek scared looking woman who looks nervous about interaction with border guards....no?

i understand that there are laws in place and that the law is the law.

but does that mean we shouldn't fight it? we should accept it? after all we're prostitutes so we know what we got ourselves into?

if people didn't fight bad laws and policies we would still have slavery, abortion would be illegal, being gay would be illegal and beating your wife with a stick with a width no bigger than your thumb would still be legal....

is that so hard to understand? as citizens we have a right to be outraged at this kind of thing and an obligation to try to dismantle laws which cause harm....

love susie

I don't think that female Canadians coming back home have this issue at all. Clearly the discussion (with respect to working ladies) revolves mostly around how American border patrol treats women coming into the USA.

Should you be offended that American law doesn't respect a women's right to use their bodies however they see fit? Sure.
Do you have any legal recourse to force either US immigration or US legislators to change their administrative policies and laws to respect what should be this god-given entitlement for you as a Canadian citizen? Not unless you're an American citizen.

So, should you be outraged as a woman living on this planet earth that a country such as the US implements these rules of law? I suppose you could be, particularly if you'd like to work down south or you want to visit and bring your hard earned money into their economy. You'd be better served by showing your displeasure by acting like the customer doing business in their country, and not giving them your hard-earned dollars .

However, should you be outraged when border patrol grills the shit out of you when you try to enter THEIR country, particularly when you should know that you, as an escort, could possess a profile that will raise all their warning flags if you're carrying pockets full of condoms, don't have full time employment, travel frequently (which costs money), travel with other married men, AND are belligerent with them when they start probing?

I think you're wasting your energy by being outraged, because you should fully expect this to happen and brought it upon yourself by entering into their country AND not covering your tracks and having a solid, provable alibi. Why poke the tiger with a stick?

When I go down to the US, I never partake in pooning? Why would I take the chance in getting arrested and possibly being banned from entering the US again? It would be stupid of me to partake in that activity down there. Their game, their rules.

 

[ThisEndUp]

agreed Susie; however, do we have that obligation in a country other than our own?

such as the usa?

i respectfully submit, no

in the usa you have the right to remain silent... if you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you

Two words: Work visa

It's illegal to come up here as a US citizen, strip for cash, pay no taxes, and go home with all your sweet $5s seeing as y'all ain't got no $1s (hear the Southern in your head as you read this!) and I'm sure we don't throw loonies right?

You can't be a Canadian and work in the US, or vice versa. Earning money in another country is a crime. Prostitution is a crime in 49 out of 50 states. Travelling with a married man with no straight job, condoms, lube, and lingerie is asking for it. Visiting another country is a privilege not a right, no matter how geographically close it is to you.

Neither the US nor the Canadian border guards are under any obligation to prove anything about anyone. They can refuse entry for any one of the reasons they have available to them.

And imo, they are just as vigilant, and probably even more so, about anyone they suspect of trying to enter their countries to work without work permits. If sex workers consistently and constantly want to circumvent the laws either of Canada or the US, then they will also have to accept the penalties of doing this, just like the resort worker from Austria who comes into Canada to get that under-the-table job again in Whistler. Those people are refused entry all the time as well, and for just as valid a reason as anything else. Will a bartender from Australia upset the fabric of US society by entering the country on a tourist visa knowing he has a job in Vegas starting in two days? Probably not, but it is still illegal to work anywhere as a non-citizen without the proper paperwork.

While the subject of the OP or any other woman shouldn't necessarily go through a shake down under the suspicion of being a sex worker, it is going to happen. Just like if a guy from Ireland was working in Canada a year ago on a proper visa, met a girl, fell in love, couldn't get another work visa, but wants to see his girl, so he comes back to Canada on a tourist visa to see her. He too is going to get grilled, the girl and her mother will get phone calls, his phone and emails are going to be sifted through looking for evidence that while visiting his girl he will also be working for her father, the guy who hired him last time.

Chinese visitors often get their luggage rifled through because they seem to have a tendency to bring in favourite meat products, which is currently prohibited.

And for those people who come into any country with a lie, stop. Because if and when they want to check up on the relative you are coming to visit, the girlfriend who is having that bachelorette party in Vegas, or the guy traveling beside you isn't with you, and you are caught in that lie, they will simply refuse entry and your entire vacation (working or otherwise) is out the window. Get a truth, and stick to it. By get a truth I mean find a valid non sex work related reason for going into the US, or traveling through it, and get the back up to back up your story, and don't mess with that because the day you get caught will be the day you will find yourself with a one year or permanent ban from entering the country ever.

re: the waiver, seems to me a cash grab, it costs over $500 to get one, lasts a year so you'll need another one soon enough.

I don't think that female Canadians coming back home have this issue at all. Clearly the discussion (with respect to working ladies) revolves mostly around how American border patrol treats women coming into the USA.

Should you be offended that American law doesn't respect a women's right to use their bodies however they see fit? Sure.
Do you have any legal recourse to force either US immigration or US legislators to change their administrative policies and laws to respect what should be this god-given entitlement for you as a Canadian citizen? Not unless you're an American citizen.

So, should you be outraged as a woman living on this planet earth that a country such as the US implements these rules of law? I suppose you could be, particularly if you'd like to work down south or you want to visit and bring your hard earned money into their economy. You'd be better served by showing your displeasure by acting like the customer doing business in their country, and not giving them your hard-earned dollars .

However, should you be outraged when border patrol grills the shit out of you when you try to enter THEIR country, particularly when you should know that you, as an escort, could possess a profile that will raise all their warning flags if you're carrying pockets full of condoms, don't have full time employment, travel frequently (which costs money), travel with other married men, AND are belligerent with them when they start probing?

I think you're wasting your energy by being outraged, because you should fully expect this to happen and brought it upon yourself by entering into their country AND not covering your tracks and having a solid, provable alibi. Why poke the tiger with a stick?

When I go down to the US, I never partake in pooning? Why would I take the chance in getting arrested and possibly being banned from entering the US again? It would be stupid of me to partake in that activity down there. Their game, their rules.

Game, set and match.

Besides, there was more to that gals story than she posted, you don't get flagged for nothing...

 

[Miss*Bijou]

You might not like it but that is the way it is.

I had a GF who came down to Seattle to spend the w/e with me. She had her toys and condoms with her and got the same treatment. She spent six hours in secondary inspection being grilled over it.

She was not a SP.

Go ahead fight the system and get in arguments with people here. You won't change jack shit. That is the way it is.

What kind of defeatist attitude is that?

I'm sorry if you're numb to injustice and believe that if you can't singlehandedly change the world overnight, then you should just put up and shut up and really just not give a shit about anyone or anything other than your own belly button. It's a real noble way to relate with the world and all but it's actually even more certain of leading to no change, ever, at all. If that works for you, great. If apathy works for you, fine. But pretend it's somehow a better attitude to have or that it is preferable for people who actually give a shit to become numb to what happens around them. I don't agree that just because you may not be able to change something, that you should accept it like a docile sheep!


Do you even realize that several things you enjoy every day are privileges that were won, only because someone fought the system and got into arguments. Maybe not all on their own but with others who gave a shit even if they were told they wouldn't change jackshit. How the hell do you think these things change? The least you could do if you can't be bothered to fight the system, is to acknowledge that others have done it for you!


Don't give me this kind of crap. You can do what works for you but that is such a lame, bullshit thing to say.

 

[Miss*Bijou]

human rights? respect? how can we think this is ok or should be expected....?

susi, apparently people here have decided that she and many others are not entitled to human rights and respect because that's just the way border patrol rolls so she should put up and shut up!

they're very okay with it and absolutely think women should expect it!

crossing the border is not a right! so you shouldn't expect any (rights) while you do that either! Even if you don't even actually want to spend time in the us but happen to have a connecting flight there.

no rights or dignity for you!

just smile and accept it.

 

[Miss*Bijou]

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/03/gadget-border-searches/


Of course if it was up to people here, no one should have complained in the first place and just deal with it.

 

[badbadboy]

What kind of defeatist attitude is that?

I'm sorry if you're numb to injustice and believe that if you can't singlehandedly change the world overnight, then you should just put up and shut up and really just not give a shit about anyone or anything other than your own belly button. It's a real noble way to relate with the world and all but it's actually even more certain of leading to no change, ever, at all. If that works for you, great. If apathy works for you, fine. But pretend it's somehow a better attitude to have or that it is preferable for people who actually give a shit to become numb to what happens around them. I don't agree that just because you may not be able to change something, that you should accept it like a docile sheep!


Do you even realize that several things you enjoy every day are privileges that were won, only because someone fought the system and got into arguments. Maybe not all on their own but with others who gave a shit even if they were told they wouldn't change jackshit. How the hell do you think these things change? The least you could do if you can't be bothered to fight the system, is to acknowledge that others have done it for you!


Don't give me this kind of crap. You can do what works for you but that is such a lame, bullshit thing to say.

Unworthy of the response. You remind me of the crusty old Air Canada Flight attendants we have to endure while traveling across our glorious country.

Guess this is why you spend so much time on Perb = not many clients.

How do you like that crap?

BBB

 

[87112]

Unworthy of the response. You remind me of the crusty old Air Canada Flight attendants we have to endure while traveling across our glorious country.

Guess this is why you spend so much time on Perb = not many clients.

How do you like that crap?

BBB

Man that is hardcore. Time for a time out.

 

[badbadboy]

Man that is hardcore. Time for a time out.

So just why is it we just have to sit back and take her abuse in every thread?

If you speak your mind, she calls you ignorant or an idiot and it just slides. I have put her on ignore so I can't see anymore of her regurgitations anymore.

She trolls these forums with her inflammatory comments that go without repudiation whatsoever. Frankly I am sick and tired of her uncontrolled diatribe. If you want to have an intelligent conversation it has to be along her guidelines. Otherwise, you feel her wrath. One has to remember that respect is earned in the Lounge and not merely given to because she is a paid advertiser.

 

[Tugela]

ok, but that is not the point i am making. i understand its their job, i understand they are trained to do that, i understand that its a systematic problem....

does that make it right? no. that is my point.

i am not saying the fault always lies with border guards, i am saying the problem lies with the policy directive/ laws as outlined in one of my earlier posts.

especially when entering canada, where prostitution is NOT illegal. as far as i can tell exotic dancing is not illegal in either country so why is it mentioned over and over? why are exotic dancers not allowed to enter and work in canada?

my problem is with the "red flags". they are not based on reality. a trafficking victim would not (IMHO) strut up to the border and present herself, condoms lingerie and all....one would think that it would be a meek scared looking woman who looks nervous about interaction with border guards....no?

i understand that there are laws in place and that the law is the law.

but does that mean we shouldn't fight it? we should accept it? after all we're prostitutes so we know what we got ourselves into?

if people didn't fight bad laws and policies we would still have slavery, abortion would be illegal, being gay would be illegal and beating your wife with a stick with a width no bigger than your thumb would still be legal....

is that so hard to understand? as citizens we have a right to be outraged at this kind of thing and an obligation to try to dismantle laws which cause harm....

love susie

The same reason every other profession can't just come here and work.

Why should they make an exception for adult entertainers?

You don't seem to understand that foreign citizens don't have the right to come and work here, no matter who they are. It is all controlled.

There are only 3 ways for foreigners to work here legally:

A) If they immigrate here through the legal process.
B) If there are no Canadians who can do their job, they can get a temporary work visa (again, that has to be obtained legally).
C) If they are officially granted refugee status.

No other non-citizens have the right to work here, or come to the country seeking work, if they don't fall into one of those three catagories, no matter where they come from or what they do.

The same rules apply in the US, as well as pretty much every other country in the world.

 

[huggzy]

susi, apparently people here have decided that she and many others are not entitled to human rights and respect because that's just the way border patrol rolls so she should put up and shut up!

they're very okay with it and absolutely think women should expect it!

crossing the border is not a right! so you shouldn't expect any (rights) while you do that either! Even if you don't even actually want to spend time in the us but happen to have a connecting flight there.

no rights or dignity for you!

just smile and accept it.

Bijou...you don't get it. As a Canadian citizen you do not possess any rights when crossing the US border - whether you're a man or woman. You are not an American citizen. For some reason or another you don't seem to grasp this reality.

You cross that border at your own risk and should be prepared to deal with whatever it is they throw at you. They don't give two shits about your sense of entitlement if they don't want you within their borders (and clearly you feel you are entitled to enter into the US without restriction or reservation for some reason - heaven knows why??)

Am I ok with it??? Well, I'd love to have free access, but I'm not stupid. I'm smart enough to know when to pick a fight and when to realize that there are fights that are nonsensical to get into.

 

[susi]

Two words: Work visa

It's illegal to come up here as a US citizen, strip for cash, pay no taxes, and go home with all your sweet $5s seeing as y'all ain't got no $1s (hear the Southern in your head as you read this!) and I'm sure we don't throw loonies right?

You can't be a Canadian and work in the US, or vice versa. Earning money in another country is a crime. Prostitution is a crime in 49 out of 50 states. Travelling with a married man with no straight job, condoms, lube, and lingerie is asking for it. Visiting another country is a privilege not a right, no matter how geographically close it is to you.

this is the point missy, there are new rules as follows to get into canada;

For the purposes of these instructions, strip clubs, escort services and massage parlours are considered businesses where there are reasonable grounds to suspect a risk of sexual exploitation. These instructions should be applied to all businesses in these categories.

Officers should take care not to refuse applications involving businesses where employees have qualifications and credentials that are regulated and certified by provincial authorities, such as massage therapy clinics.

In addition, if a foreign national in the occupation of exotic dancer is destined to a bar or hotel that only has an exotic dance performance occasionally and would not normally be considered a ‘strip club,’ the establishment will be considered a ‘strip club’ for the duration of the Foreign National’s performance and the business would become ineligible as per the Ministerial Instructions.[/B]

this is quote from my post on the second page of this thread...check out the new canadian governments ministers directions on how to deny entry to sex workers...

this means no one coming to canada for sex work may get a work visa. this is a direct result of anti trafficking measures as is the reaction of the US border guards. this anti trafficking shit storm is happening all over the world. it is the new way the abolitionists want to hurt us, keep us where they can control us, limit our ability to travel....and it enables police violence as was described by the author of the blog in the OP...

the anti trafficking/ anti sex work feminazis have been busy spreading myths and lies about our lives and this is the result.

i agree with bijou that its fine for those who are not affected to sit back and say, well, too bad, that's what you get.

i am not that person, i will fight to ensure the safety of migrant workers coming to canada and to remove discriminatory practices on the part of the government.

the sex workers in the US are already fighting for themselves bu this is not solely happening there. it is happening in canada too. sure, foreign workers stealing canadian jobs, i get it. they undermine our wages, they provide servies we do not, it sucks.

but the way this is being handled is not the answer. fear mongering leading to exclusion of migrant workers and further driving them underground. how is this helping anyone.

and now it has given border guards license to harrass any woman who is beautiful or looks like she might be able to dance or is carrying condoms....how is making condoms basically illegal going to help anyone?

love susie