Do you deserve to be robbed?

[jesuschrist]

You own a huge house.
Your house has huge windows in the living room.
You never close your curtains.
You have a huge TV, and you hang it on the wall and everyone on the street can see you watching it.
You have a $20,000 chandelier. It's bright and beautiful and everyone on the street can see it hanging in your dining room (because your living room and dining room are one space).
You want everyone to know you are wealthy, so for example at Christmas time you put up a huge tree and you decorate it lavishly and put tons of gift boxes around it, and you put this by the window.
You have a late model Mercedes Benz in the drive way.
In the evenings, you still never close your curtains.
You built your house in a neighborhood that's not so great, and your house is ostentatious in size compared to other houses. A couple of streets down, there are people who are usually up to no good.

One day you come home and your place has been ransacked by thiefs and you feel violated. You don't feel safe anymore.

Suppose that was your neighbor a few houses down, and you know almost nothing about him because he keeps to himself.
Do you think he deserved it?

 

[jesuschrist]

Are you describing yourself J.C . More then well off?

No I'm not. I'm putting this up to see what people think of this issue, so you can say what you want, I won't be personally offended.

 

[Sharky66]

"Deserve" might be strong. I don't think anyone "deserves" to be robbed. Robbery is a crime and cannot be justified. You rob me of my nice watch because you think I shouldn't have it? Fuck off!

But back to your point. I just think such a person is stupid. He could do all that IMO if he wants to because who the fuck are you to say how he spends his money? But it is better to keep the curtains drawn and the MB in the garage.

Why does this issue strike a cord with you? Do you think people who have wealth and means should not have it? Are you jealous? Do you routinely ask yourself, "why does he have it when I don't?" Should the guy who has worked hard and done well give everything up so as not to offend you?

I seriously doubt you are the rich guy with the house and Mercedes. I think you are the guy a few doors down.

Am I right?

PS... I think I am right.. you are a self-professed "anti-establishment thinker" according to a recent post of yours in a different thread. This could mean different things to different people, however, with you, I think it means what I said above.

No offense, just an observation, and admittedly, speculation on my part.

 

[jesuschrist]

"Deserve" might be strong.

Yes it is. I used that word for the sake of convenience, because there is no other word in the English language that would mean "not to deserve but put oneself in harm's way and asking for consequences" - much like the person who rides a motorcycle without a helmet.

I don't think anyone "deserves" to be robbed. Robbery is a crime and cannot be justified. You rob me of my nice watch because you think I shouldn't have it? Fuck off!

You're right, nobody deserves to be a victim of crime. But what if someone puts themselves in harm's way to be victimized? They still don't deserve it, yes, but how much sympathy would you have for someone who was so stupid?

But back to your point. I just think such a person is stupid. He could do all that IMO if he wants to because who the fuck are you to say how he spends his money? But it is better to keep the curtains drawn and the MB in the garage.

I think most people would agree with you. He is stupid. He can spend his money any way he wants. He can keep his curtains open, it's his house. And he is stupid.

Why does this issue strike a cord with you? Do you think people who have wealth and means should not have it? Are you jealous? Do you routinely ask yourself, "why does he have it when I don't?" Should the guy who has worked hard and done well give everything up so as not to offend you?

This issue strikes no cord with me. I am not envious of wealthy people, and I know nobody who behaves this way. Something came up in the news and I wonder how people feel about it.

I seriously doubt you are the rich guy with the house and Mercedes. I think you are the guy a few doors down.

Am I right?

I'm neither. Read the statement I made above.

 

[ReluctantPooner]

Doesn't deserve it but is definately asking for it.

 

[jesuschrist]

Doesn't deserve it but is definately asking for it.

ooooh! So honest!

 

[ReluctantPooner]

ooooh! So honest!

It's kinda like leaving a laptop on the backseat of your car and parking it in gastown. You don't deserve to have your window smashed and computer stolen, but it's probably going to happen!

 

[wilde]

This is just another version of "blame the victim".

 

[jesuschrist]

This is just another version of "blame the victim".

I guess so. Doesn't the victim need to share some of the blame? Should the victim not have taken some responsibility for the consequences of his actions?

If someone walked into a lion's den with a bucket of kentucky fried chicken, does he deserve to be attacked?

 

[wilde]

I guess so. Doesn't the victim need to share some of the blame? Should the victim not have taken some responsibility for the consequences of his actions?

If someone walked into a lion's den with a bucket of kentucky fried chicken, does he deserve to be attacked?

I walked into a bar and found you to be loud and obnoxious. I proceeded to punch you in the face, how much responsibility should you take?

A girl wears provocative clothing and have the audacity to hang out at a bar, does she deserves to be raped?

 

[jesuschrist]

I walked into a bar and found you to be loud and obnoxious. I proceeded to punch you in the face, how much responsibility should you take?

I take the responsibility for hanging out in a bar where people like you are to be found, who punch people in the face. I take responsibility for being loud and obnoxious and the possible consequences to my well-being for my actions. I don't take any responsibility for your actions and even hope you go to jail. But my friend advises me that I was stupid, and I take responsibility for being stupid. When I realize that, I take responsibility for putting forth the chain of events that led to my getting punched in the face to begin with - because had I not hung out at such a crappy place with people like you around, I would not have been punched.

A girl wears provocative clothing and have the audacity to hang out at a bar, does she deserves to be raped?

No comment. See above.

 

[wilde]

I take the responsibility for hanging out in a bar where people like you are to be found, who punch people in the face. I take responsibility for being loud and obnoxious and the possible consequences to my well-being for my actions. I don't take any responsibility for your actions and even hope you go to jail. But my friend advises me that I was stupid, and I take responsibility for being stupid. When I realize that, I take responsibility for putting forth the chain of events that led to my getting punched in the face to begin with - because had I not hung out at such a crappy place with people like you around, I would not have been punched.

You should take responsibility for being born...

 

[Elmore]

I take the responsibility for hanging out in a bar where people like you are to be found, who punch people in the face. I take responsibility for being loud and obnoxious and the possible consequences to my well-being for my actions. I don't take any responsibility for your actions and even hope you go to jail. But my friend advises me that I was stupid, and I take responsibility for being stupid. When I realize that, I take responsibility for putting forth the chain of events that led to my getting punched in the face to begin with - because had I not hung out at such a crappy place with people like you around, I would not have been punched.



No comment. See above.

Wow dude!!
Women are going to wear provocative clothing to the bar...how else are they supposed to dress? Even if they dressed like a street walker, they don't deserve to be raped...and there is obviously a huge difference between provocative and street walker.

 

[jesuschrist]

You should take responsibility for being born...

Obviously you refuse to understand the difference between direct causation, stupidity, and responsibility. You would prefer to only focus on responsibility and omit any reference to how stupidity and causation are directly related.

It's like riding a motorcycle at high speed and having an accident with a car, even if the car was completely at fault, and blaming the car driver for your extensive damages because you chose to be in a motorcycle instead of a car.

 

[jesuschrist]

Wow dude!!
Women are going to wear provocative clothing to the bar...how else are they supposed to dress? Even if they dressed like a street walker, they don't deserve to be raped...and there is obviously a huge difference between provocative and street walker.

Yes, it's a problematic issue isn't it. Of course they have the right to dress however they want. No woman asks to be raped, and it's not her fault if some guy decides that he has to rape her. But should she have known better if she knew the bar she was going to was full of idiots, and should she have known better than to dress provocatively in front of people who can't help themselves?

It's kind of like being an escort and not checking up on who her new client is, isn't it? What if he's a rapist, and he's at large (the police issued warnings about him in the media)? It's surely not her fault she gets assaulted, but was she stupid? And if you say she was stupid, then does she deserve the consequences of not taking responsibility for her safety? The Supreme Court of Canada, in their stated reasons not to make prostitution illegal, cited that sex work was activity that put women in a lesser position with regard to her safety and gender equality - hence to not prosecute her. It appears that the judges in this country would provide an exception to the criminal law because they feel the need to protect prostitutes from the consequences of their own actions?

 

[jesuschrist]

So can you point out the bar full of idiots that she should stay away from then. Maybe this common knowledge could help ladies in the future...

Well I'm not the kind of person who frequents bars very often. But if I knew of a bar with a lot of rough people, I would caution anyone (male or female) to take some precautions before going there, or just avoid it altogether. If they don't heed my advice, and get robbed or assaulted or whatever, then I'd say they were being foolish. Was it their fault? At the point of robbery or assault, no. At the point of ignoring sound advice, yes.

 

[Elmore]

Wow you certainly aren't here to win friends and influence people are you.

Most of us are not here to win friends.

I disagree with his position 1000% but i respect his candor even though his expressions won't be received favorably by most...especially the ladies on this board.

 

[Elmore]

trust me, that's apparent.. LMAO..

Actually...the few here who are trying to win friends are much more obvious.

Trust me.

 

[jesuschrist]

So ladies go out and when you go out make sure you don't show any skin at all. Flat shoes, tape your breasts down, ankle length skirts long, sleeve high neck shirts. maybe tie your hair back, no make up. because you wouldn't want to arouse the male beast who can't control himself. Because we need to be prudent and not foolish according to JC.

I don't appreciate that you've taken my position and exaggerated it the way you have, and essentially spoken a lie for me when this was not something I meant at all.

Of course I believe women should dress however they want. Of course I think that if she were assaulted for dressing however she wanted, the offender should get the blame for what he did. I'm just saying that she was stupid, as is the rich guy who flashes his wealth, as is the motorcycle rider, as is the escort who doesn't check on her new clients, etc. When you're found to be stupid, you need to take responsibility for what actions led to what consequences, even if ultimately someone else is to blame for harming you. What I don't like is this all-or-nothing ignorance that prevents people from partitioning out where fault lies, when, and to whom.

It was all for discussion and to see whether the discussion has merit, not to just shame someone for stating their opinion.

 

[wilde]

Obviously you refuse to understand the difference between direct causation, stupidity, and responsibility. You would prefer to only focus on responsibility and omit any reference to how stupidity and causation are directly related.

I don't appreciate that you've taken my position and exaggerated it the way you have, and essentially spoken a lie for me when this was not something I meant at all.

Me neither...