If I Ever See This Knuckle Dragging Neanderthal I would Kick Him In the Nuts

Miss*Bijou

Sexy Troublemaker
Nov 9, 2006
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I could never date a vegetarian,to control freaky for me:rolleyes:

Do you ever say anything that makes any sense? :confused:

I mean, are you trying to break a record of how many irrelevant comments one can make in one thread?

If so, you already achieved that a few pages back so you can relax now. :thumb:
 

bcneil

I am from BC
Aug 24, 2007
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I could never date a vegetarian,to control freaky for me:rolleyes:
They can be, dated one, who said she didn't care what I did. Guess what? nagged each and everytime I ate meat. Would even make a fuss each time she opened my fridge and saw meat. Yeah she didn't care.

Do you ever say anything that makes any sense? :confused:

I mean, are you trying to break a record of how many irrelevant comments one can make in one thread?

If so, you already achieved that a few pages back so you can relax now. :thumb:
This thread is about a rich athlete, while vacation on his ranch shot a deer. This is not really a big deal for that part of the world.
BUT, he was fined for not keeping the meat.....a trophy hunter. A celebrate done wrong story.

A few years back my buddy had his car scratched by a driver trying to parallel park on Robson. That driver was the Robin Williams.
I guess we should ban cars
 
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Miss*Bijou

Sexy Troublemaker
Nov 9, 2006
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This thread is about a rich athlete, while vacation on his ranch shot a deer. This is not really a big deal for that part of the world.
BUT, he was fined for not keeping the meat.....a trophy hunter. A celebrate done wrong story.

A few years back my buddy had his car scratched by a driver trying to parallel park on Robson. That driver was the Robin Williams.
I guess we should ban cars


Is that supposed to be a joke?


It doesn't matter one bit to me that apparently he's a "celebrity", especially since I don't know who he is and I've never heard his name before - so really couldn't care less what his status is. Just like the wolf example had nothing to do with any celebrity. So that's actually not part of my argument and is really irrelevant to any of what I've said.


Are you saying my position analogous to wanting to ban cars because of a scratch? That makes no sense to me. What am I missing? Beyond the fact that what I've been saying is not remotely comparable to the example, you do realize you're comparing am issue about such unimportant, superficial and mildly inconvenient but totally fixable "problem" as paint on the exterior of a CAR?


A trivial scratch that doesn't even affect the way the car works, with the frivolous killing of a living, breathing animal? An animal who's done nothing to provoke that random violence whatsoever, by a man who does it for the sole purpose of deriving some pleasure? satisfaction? power? what? from his perceived display of virility self entitlement and grandiosity delusions of superiority? what? A sorry excuse of a man who takes the vulgarity a step further by decapitating the unlucky animals carcass, presumably for the purpose of mounting it on his wall to proudly display...? his courage? skill? manhood?... to distract or compensate for his small dick? WHAT?


Sorry, an animal is not like a car. And it's genuinely fucked up that you could seriously think of the two as comparable. How disconnected are you people? We're fucking apes. Apes who are so convinced of their superior intelligence that they've assumed it makes them special and above all of the other animals, who are just here to serve them. Seriously, it's 2012. Look around, people have become more enlightened and maybe it's time to evaluate the beliefs you've accepted without any questioning up until now.


Because an animal is not the same as a car, nor is that animal being alive one minute and then being shot dead for no reason other than to be decapitated and its head on some clueless ogres wall - not even remotely close to a scratch in the paint on an inanimate object such as a car. For you to say so demonstrates how little consideration you have put into our relationship with other animals who share the planet with us. And it's impossible for your arguments to be meaningful until you've challenged your own beliefs and speak out of conviction and not out of uncritical acceptance and conformity. Until then, and as it has been throughout this thread, the best that any of you can come up with (besides personal attacks in an effort to distract people into not noticing their inability to present any relevant argument, which has been demonstrated repeatedly already) will be incongruous and relevant only to someone who hasn't challenged any of it either.


Unfortunately it will still be meaningless to anyone whose beliefs are a result of independent and critical thinking and willingness to challenge the contradictions and biases that elevate us above other animals and enables us to view them as being here for us, and all that was created in order to justify the convenient and comfortable status quo, our treatment and use of animals while we ignore our extreme cruelty and their unbelievable and unfair suffering. If you have not/wont step out of the "official" story, of course you will remain convinced of your position.


That's why there is an official story, its only purpose is to justify what cannot be justified otherwise. As long as you stick to the story we are all taught, you'll believe it. Most people intuitively know very well that an attempt to challenge the official story would quickly shatter it, it's not nearly as solid as it claims to be. And that's why the majority of people don't dare to make that move and in fact react aggressively when challenged to think for themselves. If there was ever any doubt, this thread offers numerous examples.


So basically, until you can step out of the official script to respond to argument, we will not only be on different pages, we'll be reading from different books altogether. You'll have to replace the fairytales for non-fiction because your story doesn't provide for arguments that are logical, reasoned or that mean anything against facts and reality. They're meant to ignore reality and make you feel good - that's about it but that doesn't make them real.
 

Miss*Bijou

Sexy Troublemaker
Nov 9, 2006
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Women are from venus, men are from mars:nod:

Sorry that's another fail. I don't think your fellow Martians have too much trouble being relevant or being quiet when they don't have anything relevant to add. That's not a Martian thing but nice try, I'm sure all Martians appreciate your attempt to drag them down with you. ;)
 

Dgodus

Banned
Nov 5, 2011
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Ugh, very few people who posted in this thread agree trophy killing is acceptable (if any I cant be bothered to reread it). Most just like to eat meat and dont like being told not to. Being bombarded by facts/essays is one thing, having it done in a condescending tone is a complete other. Obviously you have quite a head on your shoulders, however your delivery stinks. One of my favorite writers uses a quote (not verbatim) "vulgarity just gives people who dont want to listen to you a good reason not to". No you aren't swearing at anyone, but the tone of your own writing between everything you link is confrontational in and of itself, thus giving those who aren't predisposed to take your arguments to heart a good reason not too. If you think you're playing some grandiose joke on all of us "stupids", not really, you're actually doing your own ideology and points of view a disservice as not only will some people not take into account this discussion but also be more adamant about it down the road as well to others who wish to take up the issue.

As I said I eat some meat, my preferences are fruits, and the only thing that concerns me about it is killing animals. Too bad animals have always eaten animals that's how a food chain works, it's not cruel in and of itself, it's nature. The health issue, guess what only long term meta study I've found (I'm not looking that hard) is on adventists in california who live an overall very healthy lifestyle - they live 10 yrs longer on avg, about 2yrs of that is attributed to straight up vegetarian diet. A vegetarian diet will promote about 1/4 to a 1/3 less chance of heart disease, but when you factor in alot of vegetarians probably dont smoke and try to live overall healthy, where do you think the real benefit comes from? If you're getting food from farms that mass produce; wether it be meat, fruit, or veggies, then you're getting crap on your food you dont want to be ingesting if you can help it. Alot of people dont have the option otherwise as most of us need to really budget things and cant get the best of everything (again why alot of poor hunters feel reverence for the animals they hunt, cause they're poor and rely on those animals to survive, which by someone who is most likely not poor decided was bullshit - I guess those people should just go to soup kitchens instead).

Since as early as I can remember I/my family has had pets (dogs, cats, horses), never have we trained one by rubbing their nose in shit or piss, and oddly enough they all learn quite readily.
 

HankQuinlan

I dont re Member
Sep 7, 2002
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As far as diet and health go -- and in sympathy with animal rights ideals -- eating a vegetarian diet seems like a good ideal but is just hard. I could do it fine if I had a Thai or Indian kitchen slave to prepare my meals; but cooking vegetarian only is very difficult for a lazy person. And I actually like things like tofu, beans, grains, and all the usual suggestions.

Make just about anything taste better? Heat it up and dollop in a bunch of meat, fat, butter, or sugar.

Make just veggies taste good enough to live on? Work forever shopping, chopping, seasoning, steaming, etc. Curries take forever. Or eat only in restaurants.

Laziness trumps ideals for me.
 

luvsdaty

Well-known member
Mother nature is far crueler on animals than us.Ever starved to death? or been eaten alive? or froze to death?I have respect for every animal that I've ever killed & am thankful for everything that,that animal has given me.You can look down your nose at me for eating meat & you have every right to do so.
When i take a trophy buck,that animal has passed its genes on.I don't have any respect for someone who shoots an animal for the 'sport'. If people don't have any respect for me for sustance hunting, fill your boots. I do find it hypocritical of those who look down at me, yet they have no qualms of wearing Ugg boots, leather jackets & everything else that is derived from animals.
This is just my opinion,love it , hate it or feel indifference.It really doesn't matter to me
 

myselftheother

rubatugtug
Dec 2, 2004
1,275
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Nicely put. I love meat, veggies are fabulous and I am not a knuckle dragging cave man-ape. I agree with your assesment of Miss Bijou's postings....like Silky, probably good info that we ought to be listening to, but if the delivery makes you feel like she thinks you're an idiot sub human for not being on her side kinda sinks her ship. I couldn't have put it better my own viewpoint.



Ugh, very few people who posted in this thread agree trophy killing is acceptable (if any I cant be bothered to reread it). Most just like to eat meat and dont like being told not to. Being bombarded by facts/essays is one thing, having it done in a condescending tone is a complete other. Obviously you have quite a head on your shoulders, however your delivery stinks. One of my favorite writers uses a quote (not verbatim) "vulgarity just gives people who dont want to listen to you a good reason not to". No you aren't swearing at anyone, but the tone of your own writing between everything you link is confrontational in and of itself, thus giving those who aren't predisposed to take your arguments to heart a good reason not too. If you think you're playing some grandiose joke on all of us "stupids", not really, you're actually doing your own ideology and points of view a disservice as not only will some people not take into account this discussion but also be more adamant about it down the road as well to others who wish to take up the issue.

As I said I eat some meat, my preferences are fruits, and the only thing that concerns me about it is killing animals. Too bad animals have always eaten animals that's how a food chain works, it's not cruel in and of itself, it's nature. The health issue, guess what only long term meta study I've found (I'm not looking that hard) is on adventists in california who live an overall very healthy lifestyle - they live 10 yrs longer on avg, about 2yrs of that is attributed to straight up vegetarian diet. A vegetarian diet will promote about 1/4 to a 1/3 less chance of heart disease, but when you factor in alot of vegetarians probably dont smoke and try to live overall healthy, where do you think the real benefit comes from? If you're getting food from farms that mass produce; wether it be meat, fruit, or veggies, then you're getting crap on your food you dont want to be ingesting if you can help it. Alot of people dont have the option otherwise as most of us need to really budget things and cant get the best of everything (again why alot of poor hunters feel reverence for the animals they hunt, cause they're poor and rely on those animals to survive, which by someone who is most likely not poor decided was bullshit - I guess those people should just go to soup kitchens instead).

Since as early as I can remember I/my family has had pets (dogs, cats, horses), never have we trained one by rubbing their nose in shit or piss, and oddly enough they all learn quite readily.
 

Miss*Bijou

Sexy Troublemaker
Nov 9, 2006
3,138
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Ugh, very few people who posted in this thread agree trophy killing is acceptable (if any I cant be bothered to reread it). Most just like to eat meat and dont like being told not to. Being bombarded by facts/essays is one thing, having it done in a condescending tone is a complete other. Obviously you have quite a head on your shoulders, however your delivery stinks. One of my favorite writers uses a quote (not verbatim) "vulgarity just gives people who dont want to listen to you a good reason not to". No you aren't swearing at anyone, but the tone of your own writing between everything you link is confrontational in and of itself, thus giving those who aren't predisposed to take your arguments to heart a good reason not too. If you think you're playing some grandiose joke on all of us "stupids", not really, you're actually doing your own ideology and points of view a disservice as not only will some people not take into account this discussion but also be more adamant about it down the road as well to others who wish to take up the issue.

As I said I eat some meat, my preferences are fruits, and the only thing that concerns me about it is killing animals. Too bad animals have always eaten animals that's how a food chain works, it's not cruel in and of itself, it's nature. The health issue, guess what only long term meta study I've found (I'm not looking that hard) is on adventists in california who live an overall very healthy lifestyle - they live 10 yrs longer on avg, about 2yrs of that is attributed to straight up vegetarian diet. A vegetarian diet will promote about 1/4 to a 1/3 less chance of heart disease, but when you factor in alot of vegetarians probably dont smoke and try to live overall healthy, where do you think the real benefit comes from? If you're getting food from farms that mass produce; wether it be meat, fruit, or veggies, then you're getting crap on your food you dont want to be ingesting if you can help it. Alot of people dont have the option otherwise as most of us need to really budget things and cant get the best of everything (again why alot of poor hunters feel reverence for the animals they hunt, cause they're poor and rely on those animals to survive, which by someone who is most likely not poor decided was bullshit - I guess those people should just go to soup kitchens instead).

Since as early as I can remember I/my family has had pets (dogs, cats, horses), never have we trained one by rubbing their nose in shit or piss, and oddly enough they all learn quite readily.


I know very well a lot of people won't take the vegetarian option and I've already said that. I do think it remains a personal choice but I strongly feel that meat eaters have a responsibility to acknowledge what the current practices are and the extent of how inhumane, cruel and unacceptable they are. Even as a non meat eater, I have a responsibility too. As a human, there is no justification for this kind of treatment of animals, whether you personally eat them or not. It's that simple: it is not acceptable. I still wouldn't eat meat if there were no factory farms left but that doesn't mean everyone else should be vegetarian. What people on this thread seem to have a problem understanding is that me saying the factory farming system is evil, barbaric, unjustifiable, unsustainable and disgusting isn't the same as me saying anyone who eats meat is evil, barbaric and disgusting.

It is me saying "hello meat eater, do you realize what you are supporting by eating meat when almost all meat comes from factory farms?"

That is when reasonable person thinks "gosh, i had no idea/i've been ignoring it. There's no denying that it's completely inhumane and unacceptable. I don't want to support that, be responsible for that or be a part of this. But I don't really want to stop eating meat so maybe the solution might be to oppose the current system and demand changes that would address all the damage that is currently part of it".


It's really not that complicated.
So when instead of that kind of reasonable response, people continue to ignore any of the info, attack the messenger and just repeat incorrect beliefs and justifications for continuing to eat meat (from factory farms), it is just circular thinking/talking as the obvious is completely ignored. There's no reason to be defensive or offended when you're presented with the reality of factory farming because as far as I know, you didn't created it, you didn't come up with all the abusive methods and the neglect for the animals' treatment. So why are you defending it? Get over the urge to be defensive and acknowledge that the system is disgusting and that if you want to eat meat, you'd like to eat it without knowing you're supporting such evil and misery. And then acknowledge that the system needs to change because you don't want to be responsible for support a system like that.


That's why I'm getting annoyed. Because some people are totally missing that point and just being dicks instead of looking at it rationally and saying: "you know what, that is fucked up, i am going to look into this and if what you're saying is true, i don't want to be a part of that so things need to change. that's not the kind of person i am, i don't want to be responsible for it."


It's really not that complicated or that difficult. But instead some people have been focused on feeling like they're being attacked and reacting based on that, which in the end, to me says "i don't care all the misery that goes on, it doesn't matter all that matters is that i'm going to eat me and that is all that matters to me so let's just keep things brutal, cruel and inhumane for the billions of animals. I don't care." To which is very hard not to respond "you're a dick" because anyone who acknowledges what truly goes will think the same about anyone who can say they aren't concerned about the amount of suffering and have no interest in seeing things change. That is what those of you who are arguing about this are essentially saying, that's what it amounts to: "let them suffer, who cares, i just want my meat and couldn't be bothered with how it gets on my plate."


I can't accept that people really honestly believe this. Do you?

So stop defending the indefensible, get upset about being made accomplice to it and demand changes. But ignoring the issue to argue with me about something that misses the point is really not accomplishing that. Eat meat if you want but stop defending and supporting that horror. I'm just saying you can't wash your hands of it because you ignore it and change the subject to your "right" to eat meat. That doesn't get you off the hook and that's why it hasn't gotten me off your back. I ALREADY SAID I CONSUME DAIRY PRODUCTS which are equally as part of that system, so what part of that is me pointing fingers when I'm admitting to my responsibility? It's me saying "gosh that's fucked up, that needs to change. i'm sure anyone who was aware would agree with me so i'm going to make sure people know." Turning around and insulting me because of some notion that I'm attacking anyone and giving in to some childish urge to be obnoxious and defensive is really just wasting everyone's time and so pointless. I just want to grab someone and shake some sense into them. lol


This is the last time I'm explaining the distinction, if anyone can't get it then they're either stupid or just a dick. But I can't deal with the defensive bs when it's just totally missing the point and attempts to avoid taking responsibility for your choices. Unless you enjoy the idea of billions of animals suffering or any other reason that might give you a valid argument *for* factory farming and misery on a massive scale, then there is nothing to argue about. This isn't about just eating meat, this is about where the meat you eat comes from. And this is why I'm frustrated because it's getting annoyed that some people don't seem to get that and are just stuck on some pointless need to defend themselves or attack - when it's totally besides the point and makes them look like they condone the current system which would be either ridiculous or it's sociopathic but not appropriate.


(and btw when I say "you" it doesn't necessarily mean only *you* personally, my comments are in general)


GOSH It is really not that complicated.
 

Miss*Bijou

Sexy Troublemaker
Nov 9, 2006
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Hmm ... dumb?

Hardly VV.

Many good posts here ... from both sides of the argument.

Some dumb ones as well.

Be aware of what it is you eat.

Where it comes from, how it gets to your table and IF you wish to participate in it's consumption..

once you are firm in your opinion ... eff em all who disagree.

Peace out


:clap2::clap2:


Dude! Just as I was giving up hope and pulling chunks of my hair out. Thank you!
 

luvsdaty

Well-known member
Strange how a thread on inappropriate trophy hunting morphed to cover all the bases to condem meat consumption. I agree factory farming is a fowl practice but it's here to stay. The best meat you can get is from a properly conducted hunt in the right area. If it's well handled, properly butchered its healthy and good for you and the highest quality lean meat you can get. I feel like a beer and some deer jerky now!
Bear pepperoni! now that's some good eating right there, i always preferred elk & moose over deer. However,a buddy of mine who's a butcher told me if you de bone your deer, that the 'gamey' flavour goes away.
 

kso_wiz

New member
Jan 11, 2009
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The hidden costs of "low-cost" providers.

I know from personal experience what a complicated subject this is.

Year before last, I bought a 400 acre "farm" in upstate NY. It really wasn't a farm, the land was just used for hay. Anyway, I now have Pigs, Turkeys, Chickens and Ducks that I'm raising. I grow Mushrooms, Currants, Apples and will probably plant some corn this spring. Hope to get into Cattle this spring and Goats as well. So far, I've kept my volume small as I learn about the animals and produce. I do plan on increasing my volume so that I make a living wage, but won't do it till I've paid for my education with experience.

For sure, the point that factory farms are an abomination are the truth and on-point. If you care about your diet, health of your body, health of the planet, or feel any fellowship with animals, you should research and form an opinion about factory farm producers. Same with factory farmed fish, CAFO's, Genetically modified food products, etc.

It is a complicated and conflicted issue. I care about animals and their welfare, and I kill them to eat them. It's a contradiction I admit. I killed one of my turkeys for Christmas. I paused, knife in hand, and had to make a decision about whether I was really going to kill him. He was standing right next to me, waiting for me to open the corn bin. My turkeys are free-range, and have worked hard all thru-out the spring-fall foraging in the grass and woods for bugs, grass, nuts, etc to supplement their feed from me. I had researched how to "harvest" them, and tried to make the process as humane as I could. But, to boil it down to the essence, I was killing this turkey so I could eat it. Of course, I also nurtured him from a hatchling to the big Tom he grew into. Food, water, shelter, and security were all provided for by me. The bird was a big hit on Christmas. He tasted wonderful. His skin was very yellow, not the bland white of a store-bought bird. He had a good flavor, compared to the tasteless factory bird. He was a little tougher then a store-bought, I think due to the excersize he got. Not bad, but it was noticable. Next Christmas, I'll research how to cook them to help with the tenderization. I don't know that I would present this as "the ideal", as it did involve the taking of a life of a wonderful animal for my dinner table. But, having said that, I know it to be better then some of the alternatives like factory farming. And, I'll do it again next Thanksgiving.

Of course, vegetarians shouldn't feel so completely self-satisfied. Factory-farmed produce is no bargain either. Mono-cultured crops are difficult to grow without artificial fertilizer, pesticides and herbicides. This practice rapes the soil, and the poisons have collateral damage downstream, literally and figuratively. The practices employed by industrial scale farms have eliminated the top-soil, and killed the beneficial fungi, bacteria and other soil-based life. The machines that harvest the crops kill countless mice, moles, gophers. Or do they not count in the accounting?

I'm sure everybody knows about the collapse of the Cod fishery and the Cod. and how threatened the Salmon/Tuna/Shark/etc are.

It's not all bad news tho. Grass-based farming is growing in practice, and can barely keep up with demand. It is better for the soil, for the cows, for the worms and other soil-based life, for the farm, and the farmer, and for the humans that eat the grass-fed cattle. By all means, learn about your local farmer, and support them. It won't be cheaper, but there are an awful lot of hidden costs in that "low-cost" (meat or soy) burger from McD, Costco, Walmart, etc.
 

Very Veronica

Banned
Aug 2, 2004
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'twas your conscience speaking

I paused, knife in hand, and had to make a decision about whether I was really going to kill him.
 

kso_wiz

New member
Jan 11, 2009
115
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'twas your conscience speaking
Labeling it as a conscience is a simple device to frame it as either good, or bad. It may be that simple for you, or for Brock Lesner for that matter. For others, it is not that simple, either for the carnivore or the vegetarian perspective.

Animals need food, water, shelter, security, and in some cases territory. All of these were provided to the Tom by me, so that was a life that never would have existed, but for me.

Another example is I've been deer hunting my property these last 2 years. The land supports a small herd of deer. They have plenty water and shelter. But, the population is limited because there is only so much food available during the hard winter months. They suffer, and some starve due to the harsh winter. I will be putting lots of time and energy into planting corn close to where the deer bed down in winter. And, I'll be shooting deer during hunting season in the following years. Will I pause before "taking" the life? Yes. But it was a life that was granted, in essense, by me and my actions. So, my conscience will have a warm glow as I reflect, as will my belly as I digest.
 
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