best places in vancouver to view a decent lineup, if any?

lenny · Oct 25, 2011

pacnwus said:
Here are some half-white half-SEAsian girls that I like:

http://i.imgur.com/KYvp8.png
http://i.imgur.com/26USr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rDtQm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xs9ng.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tZDHY.png
http://i.imgur.com/r6C6H.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/AiMEA.jpg

I have read that Eurasian girls such as these have greater financial options than the darker Issan girls, and were less likely to be found in go-go bars, but the writer might have been full of shit -- who knows?

Mr.C · Oct 25, 2011

I don't know if it's just me but I think line ups are kind of degrading myself. It's like hugh school all over again. I haven't been there myself but a girl I know who use to work at Madame Cleo's told me they had line ups and she always felt bad for one certain girl who never got picked. She was kind of indifferent about the whole idea of lineups because she always seem to get picked.

I personally never done a lineup but had the option of two girls staying at one place before. I felt bad for the girl I didn't pick and it kind of ruin the session for me.

Mr.C · Oct 25, 2011

No I'm not saying that. Most if not all the independents I have seen I have an idea what too expect from their websites or reviews from boards like this one and others.

lenny · Oct 25, 2011

I went to Cleos once and asked the madam to choose for me or i could flip a coin.

Of course many girls would rather be in a lineup than suffer their friends, relatives
and the whole world seeing them and what they do. They could care less what
total strangers think.

pacnwus · Oct 25, 2011

bcneil said:
I love living in Vancouver, and it is great for pooning compared to most places in North America.

But I dont think it would be worth it. If you had to fly here from the states, get a nice hotel, taxis.
For a weekend of pooning.

I dont think you would find anywhere in Vancouver that is high end, that would do a line.

That's kind of a drag. My first two experiences were so awesome that they set my expectations unrealistically high. One girl was stunningly beautiful in the Eastern European sense (and was basically "that girl" that I've always wanted to get with), the other was very girl-next-door pretty. Both provided service in such a way that made me forget that the experience was a business transaction (and neither even looked at the money until after the visit was over). My thanks goes out to Haylee and Vivienne from Carmen Fox -- unfortunately, neither were available during my last trip.

Unfortunately, in spite the industry's legality in various countries, the service doesn't offer the predictability of other services (like ordering a cup of coffee or beer). The first two girls made me think that this hobby is far simpler than dating (which I no longer have much patience for), but it's not. Although you are 95 percent guaranteed to get laid, I'm not just looking to get laid for its own sake -- I've been laid plenty of times, but sex provides diminishing returns for the cost of pursuit unless there is something special about the girl. Getting a girl who is your aesthetic ideal to have sex without payment is a difficult feat, and that's what I was hoping to get out of this industry. (Yes, aesthetics are a huge deal for me. Some guys care more about specific services such as BBBJ and anal, whereas I'm pretty vanilla and would be fine with doing everything covered if the girl is stunning.)

I like Eastern European girls, but the industry is notoriously sketchy in the Eastern European countries even where it's legal. Having a good experience in Riga or Budapest while avoiding getting ripped off sounds like it involves both a lot of effort and luck. I might have to brave the old man balls and do the FKK thing in Germany for the 100 girl selection, which I'd suspect includes a lot of eastern Europeans. I go to a new place in Europe each year, so a stopover in Frankfurt might be in order.

Re: independent escorts, my impression is that the most reliable ones are those with websites, rather than just an erslist ad. In a city as big as Vancouver, I've seen only about 20-25 websites for independents linked to from this forum, about five of which spark my interest. I'm still mulling it over.

BTW, what are peoples' thoughts on Montreal? I've heard that the scene there is far superior. Of course, it costs a lot more and takes a lot longer (8 hours!) to fly there.

pacnwus · Oct 25, 2011

Vanesssa said:
I don't do a lineup because I am independent, true. But if he booked a session with me and showed up and I was not what he was hoping for, he is welcome to leave and not go through with the session if he is not happy with the way I look

To be clear, I never actually told either of the two girls that I turned away that I wasn't happy with the way they looked. I gave them both a vague "I'm not feeling things tonight" explanation, thanked them for coming, paid a consolation fee, etc. I might be shallow, but I am polite

cjac7214 · Oct 25, 2011

If you want hot, you can't go wrong with Quintessential Courtesan Taylor, Shelby Luxx, Erotic Christine or Kim Capri. All gorgeous, all first class at what they do.

derkdiggler · Oct 25, 2011

"I don't know if it's just me but I think line ups are kind of degrading myself. It's like hugh school all over again. I haven't been there myself but a girl I know who use to work at Madame Cleo's told me they had line ups and she always felt bad for one certain girl who never got picked. She was kind of indifferent about the whole idea of lineups because she always seem to get picked."

I recall line ups in my days of going to Nevada for fun. Its alot of pressure for both the man and that woman. Germany's FKK clubs do offer a better method, the women are all lounging around, at the bar, pool or walking thru the club. So everyone mingles, you get to watch any possible women that may interest you, approach and speak to them (no cost to you). Women can also approach you and introduce themselves. This gives everyone time and space. No matter where you go in this business there are always women who get less business and traffic, its the way it works. I've found that some of the less attractive women actually offer better service then the more attractive ones. From my experience the more attractive ones don't have to work at it, its all about how they look. OK so this is not always the truth, I've been with what I call 9-10's who were both attractive and excellent in the room.

The other part of this is paying $500 an hour means I'm not going to take many chances to try new women. With today's economy I'd much rather spend $900 on airfare to get to a place where it's LEGAL, costs less than half per session. While some people might say 30 minutes is too short when you actually consider how long a sex act takes its more then enough time. In Germany 50 Euros is the standard for 30 minutes ($69 US dollars, $70 Canadian). So it then makes sense to try a few gals and see who you click with. You can then add more time as you go. The better clubs I visit actually offer better prices 50 Euros for the first 30, then 25 Euros for every additional 30 minutes (yes you read this right its actually cheaper the longer you go) 25 Euros is $34US dollars and $35 Canadian. I've met some Canadian and US women in the clubs, when they compare the volume of customers in one day they end up making more money rather then waiting for the $500 per hour clients. The key here is you really have to want to work, this is not about getting paid to be pretty, going to dinner, being arm candy its about sex.

Montreal is about the closest thing (their escorts) that I could find to comparing service to Germany, not all the escorts but the GFE escorts. GFE or service is another thing to consider when planning or selecting a country to visit. I had heard how great Thailand was but when I went I was disappointed. Let me explain, YES its cheap after you suffer the 20+ hour plane ride one way. Hotel and food are cheap (food is included in Germany so no cost to you). Their are hands down more women to be found, the massage parlors have huge selections in the fish bowls, the beer bars are loads as well as the go-go girls that abound. My problem is many of the women did not do oral, plus they did not understand GFE service. Not very many were into kissing either. OK so some do but it takes alot of time to go thru hundreds of girls to find the ones who will blow and kiss. What you have is a huge talent pool of women with most who don't really know what they're doing. This is due to women getting into the business our of desperation and not having any training or examples of what good sex is. This is just my humble opinion and experience when I went. Plus paid sex is NOT legal in Thailand and while guys will tell you its does not matter I know a few guys who are in Thai prisons. They don't want you to know about this as its bad for tourism. Then you have the higher chances of STD's during my visit a friend who was with me, only did 9 girls in 10 days came down with Herpes, he used protection and still got it. The clean factor is not that great in some of the clubs.

Back to the line ups, the gal who mentioned that if the customer was not happy with her when he arrives (she's an escort) could change his mind and leave. Nice guys have trouble doing this, you go thru all this trouble to get to a place, set an appointment and then you change your mind? Plus photos often are not good examples of what you'll end up with, women pick the best shots, often hide their faults with clothing etc. While I understand why they do this the issue is this really what the customer is paying for. I've known a few gals in Germany who offer a guarantee that if you did have a good time (no need to pay me) even after the sex. Now that is finding happy customers. You only find that in businesses that really offer a product they stand behind. They're not about short term, take your money and don't really care if YOU are happy.

When a woman feels her time is worth more than yours the problems start. Who makes $500 an hour? Doctors, and high end lawyers? Sex is not about a college degree, medical mal-practice insurance, higher end training. In the US we've already created a monster our of sex as we have with drugs. Kind of comparing alcohol to drugs (does legal make it cheaper?) Nevada gives us an insight into legal sex compared to illegal. You can't really compare this by the brothels located close to large cities such as Reno and Las Vegas since they've become used to catering to high rollers. The smaller clubs along I80 and 95 are more in line with prices. Sadly due to lack of volume customers, quality women it never caught on. There was a time not long ago when those clubs offered $200 for 30 minutes. Still a bit high but you have to consider the women get 50% of the price. Some brothel owners did 40/60 the girls took 60%. My point is making it legal would possibly make it cheaper or more affordable.

Hey I'm all for women who can make $500 an hour their are even porn stars asking for $1500-$2000 for an hour. If someone is willing to pay those prices, more power to them. I'm not against any of these escorts asking what they want. If any of us had a business and people wanted to pay us that kind of money we would do it too. My point is shoppers do what they do, they shop, try other things and in the end the best business makes the money. Every country has its positives, negatives so choose wisely.

What is GOOD, until you've tried what you consider is good you don't know what good really is. My standard may differ then other men, I know guys who need only a really attractive woman to get off, does not work for me. The term GFE should mean you're treated like a boy-friend and girl-friend. There is no (GFE with limits) you either do it or you don't. This means kissing, bbbj is included, almost no limits with exception to anal and (condom with sex). This is the German standard of GFE service. I've seen the term GFE abused in the US, some even say they do it but (no kissing) which is ridiculous.

Sorry got carried away here, line ups, they have their advantages and negatives. The girls who never get picked (or rarely). The pressure to decide right away. I think to be able to mingle with the gals for some time and then decide when you're ready is the best way. Besides there are always those guys who need to pop the blue pill 1 hour in advance. Just my 2 cents and humble opinion

pacnwus · Oct 25, 2011

derkdiggler said:
Back to the line ups, the gal who mentioned that if the customer was not happy with her when he arrives (she's an escort) could change his mind and leave. Nice guys have trouble doing this, you go thru all this trouble to get to a place, set an appointment and then you change your mind?

And in my case, I've already paid for a plane ticket and a hotel/hostel room for the night. If the girl is not who I wanted, the day is likely shot, as most escorts don't take on-the-spot bookings (although perhaps you might be able to luck out with an MP). If this happens two days in a row as it did during my last trip, the whole trip is shot and the money spend on air fare and lodging is completely sunk. At this point, I'm not going to Vancouver for its own sake -- I've seen the city four times and although I like it there, the novelty has worn off. I'm not trying to sound whiney. There's obviously some risk involved in the hobby, although I'm looking at the possibility of independents right now.

Pillowtalk · Oct 25, 2011

I'm just wondering where you are looking that shows rates in Vancouver are 500/hr. As an example of what you plan to be paying an escort here, it is kind of misleading. Fox Den is 320/hr, a few sps are from 350-400, but can only think of one who advertises here that is more than 400. A great deal more are less than that. I suppose you could pay that at the Swedish Touch, but not sure that is still open for business. I think they did a lineup.

Unless you simply plan to pay 500/hr to the one you decide to see lol. Which is a bonus for them.

I think you are REALLY over thinking this whole thing. I get that you want to see before play, but outside of the fox den, can't think of anywhere other than independents where you are going to find sps with the kind of looks you want. Unless you are prepared to see them on their terms, not yours (i.e. lineup), then go ahead and make appts for social time or with cancelation fee in hand until you get to that magic connection. I think that while Montreal/Toronto can offer more sps, so more selection, the set up again is not mp lineups. There are a lot of agencies out that way, meaning you aren't even going to have the luxury of setting up the appt with the sp herself, and you risk that all too familiar way that many agencies have of "getting the sale by any means necessary", which can include really drastic misrepresentation.

So, I guess either you fly off to Germany, or down to Australia or Nevada with their legal brothels and lineups in the form of 'mingling', or you figure it out that review forums are to help you find someone that is going to be the most likely one to match what you are looking for.

pacnwus · Oct 25, 2011

Pillowtalk said:
I'm just wondering where you are looking that shows rates in Vancouver are 500/hr. As an example of what you plan to be paying an escort here, it is kind of misleading. Fox Den is 320/hr, a few sps are from 350-400, but can only think of one who advertises here that is more than 400. A great deal more are less than that. I suppose you could pay that at the Swedish Touch, but not sure that is still open for business. I think they did a lineup.

Unless you simply plan to pay 500/hr to the one you decide to see lol. Which is a bonus for them.

I think you are REALLY over thinking this whole thing. I get that you want to see before play, but outside of the fox den, can't think of anywhere other than independents where you are going to find sps with the kind of looks you want. Unless you are prepared to see them on their terms, not yours (i.e. lineup), then go ahead and make appts for social time or with cancelation fee in hand until you get to that magic connection. I think that while Montreal/Toronto can offer more sps, so more selection, the set up again is not mp lineups. There are a lot of agencies out that way, meaning you aren't even going to have the luxury of setting up the appt with the sp herself, and you risk that all too familiar way that many agencies have of "getting the sale by any means necessary", which can include really drastic misrepresentation.

So, I guess either you fly off to Germany, or down to Australia or Nevada with their legal brothels and lineups in the form of 'mingling', or you figure it out that review forums are to help you find someone that is going to be the most likely one to match what you are looking for.

It was another poster -- not me, the OP -- who was mentioning paying $500. I've never paid that much. 4 of 5 of my appointments were outcalls from Carmen Fox, all of which were $305. Two of four times, Carmen Fox gave me exactly what I wanted by luck, which isn't great odds. I'll probably just research independents a little bit more. I'm not completely trusting of the reviews here though, as the girl from Seduction Unlimited in Victoria who I turned away got pretty good reviews here, none of which saw fit to mention that her photos and listed age were completely inaccurate.

Pillowtalk · Oct 25, 2011

pacnwus said:
It was another poster -- not me, the OP -- who was mentioning paying $500. I've never paid that much. 4 of 5 of my appointments were outcalls from Carmen Fox, all of which were $305. Two of four times, Carmen Fox gave me exactly what I wanted by luck, which isn't great odds. I'll probably just research independents a little bit more. I'm not completely trusting of the reviews here though, as the girl from Seduction Unlimited in Victoria who I turned away got pretty good reviews here, none of which saw fit to mention that her photos and listed age were completely inaccurate.

I see, lol. Well, one way to use reviews, is to look into the posting history of the reviewer. If they are reviewing Fox Den sps, which you have history with 4, you want to see if they have reviewed any or all of those same 4. Then you want to see what their POV on any or all of those 4 is, then when you see a reviewer's who's POV matches yours on all 4 sps, then you can go find out who else they liked and book appts with those ones. If you are expecting certain services, tho, on a par with Montreal or TO service levels, then you might want to settle for not getting something like a bbbj necessarily. If you can do that, then you should have a better expectation that the sps who have been reviewed by reviewers whose taste more closely match your own are going to be good for you. These reviewers may also see and review independents.

Altho an sp may get great reviews, it doesn't mean they are an sp who is going to be someone you want to see. So start with looking for reviews of the sps you have seen, and then check the other reviews by those same reviewers, and go from there. Because your time is limited, and seeing sps is the sole reason for your visit, taking this kind of time for thorough research is probably going to pay off for you.

lenny · Oct 25, 2011

derkdiggler said:
Montreal is about the closest thing (their escorts) that I could find to comparing service to Germany, not all the escorts but the GFE escorts. GFE or service is another thing to consider when planning or selecting a country to visit. I had heard how great Thailand was but when I went I was disappointed. Let me explain, YES its cheap after you suffer the 20+ hour plane ride one way. Hotel and food are cheap (food is included in Germany so no cost to you). Their are hands down more women to be found, the massage parlors have huge selections in the fish bowls, the beer bars are loads as well as the go-go girls that abound.

If a guy can't laid there, he should consider a sex change.

derkdiggler said:
My problem is many of the women did not do oral, plus they did not understand GFE service. Not very many were into kissing either. OK so some do but it takes alot of time to go thru hundreds of girls to find the ones who will blow and kiss. What you have is a huge talent pool of women with most who don't really know what they're doing.

My policy is to ask them in advance if they can do what i want. If a SW girl can't, i walk away and ask another. It usually doesn't take longer than 10 minutes to find one who will give the promise of DFK, BLS, BBBJ, or whatever suits my fancy of the moment. I'd guesstimate 50% do those services, with oral sometimes being given without even asking. So i'd suggest your disappointment was due, at least in part, to a failure to communicate your requirements and seal the deal prior to the date.

derkdiggler said:
This is due to women getting into the business our of desperation and not having any training or examples of what good sex is. This is just my humble opinion and experience when I went.

How long were you there. I've spent about 2 years total since 07 and find various levels of service talent, since you can find everything from P4P virgins to veteran hookers in BKK. Many of the ladies, even very young ones, have a lot of abilities through having been trained by tons of guys from around the world, young and old, not just the local Thai men. As to "desperation":

"Don't say that a girl is "sacrificing her life to save her family", because that's not true in most cases. I wrote this earlier in another thread: contrary to what many people think, prostitution is not a job of last resort for Thai women to survive, but it's rather a vocation for those (and mostly are uneducated farm girls) who want non-essential material possessions that they can't otherwise afford. In the poor villages, you don't need more than 3000 baht per month per person to live as a local, but that's when you don't buy non-essential material possessions.

"Before becoming prostitutes, the local girls often worked in regular jobs, as a farm girl, or in a factory, or as an employee in a restaurant, in a small shop, in a 7-Eleven or in a supermarket, for instance. They probably did not earn much more than 6000 or 7000 baht per month before becoming a prostitute, but that's already sufficient for a local to live a decent enough life in this country. But of course, it doesn't allow them to buy often many non-essential items.

"The average Thai prostitute spends a great part of her earnings in non-essential things (she also sends a substantial part of her money to her family -- I would say about 50% in most cases, sometimes lesser than that, but not often more than that, according to the testimony of many working girls -- though, but her family often uses a non-negligible part of this money to buy non-essential items too). For instance, the average local prostitute would buy a new cellular phone every three months or so only because she can afford it and to show it to her "friends"...."

"By the way, you seem to believe that a local prostitute earns on average about 25000 baht per month (if 80% of her monthly income is about 20000 baht). That's usually a lot more than that (unless she's old and unattractive), especially for the girls working in the farang-orientated P4P market, even if the girl doesn't have any sponsor. Even if the girl is a freelancer who works just 20 days per month and who only has one ST and one LT session per day, in Pattaya, she would already easily earn 30000 baht per month (and she can do much better than that) and about 50000 baht per month in Bangkok. That's for freelancers, working not too much and asking reasonable fees (and with no sponsor), so, imagine what the best go-go girls are earning in Bangkok!"

derkdiggler said:
Plus paid sex is NOT legal in Thailand and while guys will tell you its does not matter I know a few guys who are in Thai prisons. They don't want you to know about this as its bad for tourism.

I don't buy this. It seems to me the people there are too dumb to keep from shooting themselves in the foot when it comes to their various and rather well known and widely publicized scams. LE do not even look my way let alone speak a word when i'm hitting up SWs. OTOH, they will swoop down on these same girls up to 7 times in a night for the 1000 baht they can make them donate to the police wallet fund.

derkdiggler said:
Then you have the higher chances of STD's during my visit a friend who was with me, only did 9 girls in 10 days came down with Herpes, he used protection and still got it. The clean factor is not that great in some of the clubs.

The example here happens in every country, so hardly proves the hypothesis, which is unclear as it did not state what group it was being compared to. What is very easy to do there, unlike in Canada, is to take your SP to a world class hospital [Bumrungrad, a 10 minute walk from NEP & nearby hotels in BKK] for testing, since most SP's in Vancouver would never dream of even showing you their STI results, let alone do that, whereas TGs aim to please.

pacnwus · Oct 25, 2011

lenny said:
If a guy can't laid there, he should consider a sex change.

My policy is to ask them in advance if they can do what i want. If a SW girl can't, i walk away and ask another. It usually doesn't take longer than 10 minutes to find one who will give the promise of DFK, BLS, BBBJ, or whatever suits my fancy of the moment. I'd guesstimate 50% do those services, with oral sometimes being given without even asking. So i'd suggest your disappointment was due, at least in part, to a failure to communicate your requirements and seal the deal prior to the date.

How long were you there. I've spent about 2 years total since 07 and find various levels of service talent, since you can find everything from P4P virgins to veteran hookers in BKK. Many of the ladies, even very young ones, have a lot of abilities through having been trained by tons of guys from around the world, young and old, not just the local Thai men. As to "desperation":

I don't buy this. It seems to me the people there are too dumb to keep from shooting themselves in the foot when it comes to their various and rather well known and widely publicized scams. LE do not even look my way let alone speak a word when i'm hitting up SWs. OTOH, they will swoop down on these same girls up to 7 times in a night for the 1000 baht they can make them donate to the police wallet fund.

The example here happens in every country, so hardly proves the hypothesis, which is unclear as it did not state what group it was being compared to. What is very easy to do there, unlike in Canada, is to take your SP to a world class hospital [Bumrungrad, a 10 minute walk from NEP & nearby hotels in BKK] for testing, since most SP's in Vancouver would never dream of even showing you their STI results, let alone do that.

The text that you are quoting was originally posted by derkdiggler, not me.

lenny · Oct 25, 2011

pacnwus said:
The text that you are quoting was originally posted by derkdiggler, not me.

My apologies. I'll correct that momentarily.

derkdiggler · Oct 27, 2011

When it comes down to it, what ever works for you. The smart guys will try all the places and decide on their own. You're mileage will vary as well. When reading suggestions on the internet we really don't know what that poster deems as good, quality or good.
You learn this when you ask someone if they liked a provider or not. Many guys will say "yes" but when it counts you ask them the key "would you do them again?" and they say "NO". Then you really understand something. Regarding $500 or ever $300 an hour, matters not its too much for me. A provider can try and sell me on all sorts of reasons why $300 is worth an hour and it does not matter. Sex is just not worth that much to me. The fact that some people will pay that are the reason providers ask for that amount. This is acceptable and normal in any business. If Apple was not selling Ipads at $500 they would sell them for $400, its all about supply and demand. What the internet has done is informed the buyers and made it easier for people to share info. No more days of people did not know any better (although some of those still exist).

I did not just grab a girl and found later she did not do what I wanted (Thailand) I also asked, but saying yes and doing a bad job (untrained) are just as bad as not doing it. I was with friends who had over 10 years of experience there. Just did not stand up to my level of service. As far as medically safe, there are plenty of stats on the internet of which countries have the highest HIV and Asia is up higher. Taking every hooker to the clinic again supports my theory its too much trouble. I'm not looking for a wife or girl friend just a quick POA.

Many of the posts support the concept of going to a club that has 10 or more gals and being able to select from them. Also from a higher level of quality, selection (more then just Asians or Latinos). Finally a fair price. Makes no sense to pay $300 to try an gal, makes more sense to pay $70 for 30 minutes and then continue at $35 per 30 minutes if its great. Thus why I stuck with Germany.

In all fairness the best place with the most positive results when I visited Thailand was a place called the "Eden Club" in BKK. The owner was a Frenchman who made sure his gals knew what they were doing. This was rare, Thai men don't appear to be the best teachers, nor relying on hundreds of clients to do the teaching ether. Techniques are one thing but a woman usually HAS the skills or not, its something the person was born with, plus the chemistry. I find more women with chemistry in Germany rather
then in Thailand. Something interesting is the Thai women I've done in Germany have all been better then the Thai women in Thailand. Which could mean the exposure to the service required in Germany is higher than in Thailand. I like Thai women, don't get
me wrong, plus I like the prices of Thailand so I'm on your side. I explained the negatives, fact that a friend came down with and STD. That's another story, when it happens to you what do you do, post it on the internet? Most of the time you won't hear the horror stories. Much of my info comes from friend like a guy who used to work for many years in Thailand and wrote this book http://www.amazon.com/My-Name-Lon-You-Like/dp/9749272153 He was also a monger of sorts but saw another side of Thailand. Here's an actual video of Lon http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zHU35YjafLo#!
Do you think this takes place more in Asia or other countries? I would bet it happens more in 3rd world countries.

OK so all added up where is the best place
1. Selection (different races, ages, sizes, countries)
2. Price
3. Cost effective (total price of experience, getting there, time to get there, prices once there).
4. Safety (Crime, disease, rip off )
5. Quality of service (do they CIM, DFK, BBBJ and overall the service.

Someone interested needs to add up all the factors, when a gal nearby asks for say $300 how does that compare to $12 in the Philippines?
You do have to figure in that airfare, time off from work etc and other travel costs.

Like the poster who booked escorts and did not get what he wanted thus wasting his entire trip for the most part. Asia will always be better
for guys who prefer Asians, but never for variety. Europe will always be safer since its a western world. Just cause something has never happened
to you does not mean it can't happen.

Oh by the way http://www.bumrungrad.com/thailandhospital right now you CAN'T take your SP there. They have other problems Asia has to deal with floods and tidal waves, bombings etc.
Yes you have to love Asia, while no one might arrest you from your experience Police do arrest and extort visitors all the time. But this is not something people will tell you on the internet.
They don't want people to know they were anywhere near paid sex. Remember you'e dealing with a culture where bribery is accepted. So if something happened and the police came who
would they believe YOU or the gal or guy who speaks fluent Thai? Funny how people want to convince themselves a place is safe only since they themselves have never experienced
a problem. Sort of like going to Mexico now, I know people personally who are dead that there are still those who claim its totally safe.

We should also include the PI (Phillipines) which I hear is even cheaper then Thailand plus almost everyone speaks English.

Thank god for freedom of choice....

lenny · Oct 28, 2011

derkdiggler said:
When it comes down to it, what ever works for you. The smart guys will try all the places and decide on their own. You're mileage will vary as well. When reading suggestions on the internet we really don't know what that poster deems as good, quality or good. You learn this when you ask someone if they liked a provider or not. Many guys will say "yes" but when it counts you ask them the key "would you do them again?" and they say "NO". Then you really understand something. Regarding $500 or ever $300 an hour, matters not its too much for me. A provider can try and sell me on all sorts of reasons why $300 is worth an hour and it does not matter. Sex is just not worth that much to me. The fact that some people will pay that are the reason providers ask for that amount. This is acceptable and normal in any business. If Apple was not selling Ipads at $500 they would sell them for $400, its all about supply and demand. What the internet has done is informed the buyers and made it easier for people to share info. No more days of people did not know any better (although some of those still exist).

I did not just grab a girl and found later she did not do what I wanted (Thailand) I also asked, but saying yes and doing a bad job (untrained) are just as bad as not doing it. I was with friends who had over 10 years of experience there. Just did not stand up to my level of service.

Maybe you just had bad luck based on a small sample, which i'm sure is the experience of many
guys who visit BKK gogos or German FKK clubs. In the following thread one guy concluded:

"What I'm reading about the FKKs makes me think it's a bit more mechanical. Everything but the basics has an additional fee, and it sounds like the girls "process" more guys."
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-2601-p-3.html

I'm surprised your friends with so much [10 years] experience couldn't help you enjoy yourself.
I've only spent 2 years there since 07 and like to think i could set guys up with some Thai girls
that would be a good match for those with varying tastes in what defines a good session. BTW,
this is the advantage of getting to know a place, namely finding keepers; ladies suited to your
desires, that one can hook up with repeatedly year after year.

But, again, perhaps a more thorough interview would have resulted in you getting the kind of
service desired. Personally i don't go into a lot of detail in talking to a girl about what i expect
in a session, since it is so cheap in Thailand to just grab another one if the first hooker turns
out to be "untrained" or just not my type.

lenny · Oct 28, 2011

derkdiggler said:
As far as medically safe, there are plenty of stats on the internet of which countries have the highest HIV and Asia is up higher.

By country most stats i've read have Thailand around 1%. One source had Canada at 0.3% and Germany 0.1%. According to the following link:

East Asia......................................0.1%
Western & Central Europe................0.2%
South and South-East Asia..............0.3%
Central & South America..................0.5%
North America................................0.5%
Sub-Saharan Africa.........................5.0%

http://www.avert.org/worldstats.htm

derkdiggler said:
Taking every hooker to the clinic again supports my theory its too much trouble. I'm not looking for a wife or girl friend just a quick POA.

But you're fine with lounging in a FKK all day, watching the football matches or whatever?
It's your life to do with as you choose, but it would seem to make more sense for a
holidaying sex tourist to spend a bit of time caring for his health rather than wasting
it sightseeing a Buddhist temple in BKK, for example. Especially when you realize that
knowing your SP has tested clean re STIs [i.e. all tests were negative] is comparable in
importance re safety to using a condom. Once again, though, such testing is all but
impossible in Canada, and Germany as well, i suppose, but easily done in Siam.

lenny · Oct 28, 2011

derkdiggler said:
Many of the posts support the concept of going to a club that has 10 or more gals and being able to select from them. Also from a higher level of quality, selection (more then just Asians or Latinos).

Finally a fair price. Makes no sense to pay $300 to try an gal, makes more sense to pay $70 for 30 minutes and then continue at $35 per 30 minutes if its great. Thus why I stuck with Germany.

Yes, it does make more sense. Better yet, price-wise, to try a hot TG in LOS and pay $30
for an hour or two.

derkdiggler said:
In all fairness the best place with the most positive results when I visited Thailand was a place called the "Eden Club" in BKK. The owner was a Frenchman who made sure his gals knew what they were doing.

The Eden Club is well known by veteran Thai punters, and loved by many. At least your
10 year experienced friends may have steered you in the right direction on this occasion.
Another popular fuck joint is the world famous Annies MP near NEP in the city of angels.

derkdiggler said:
This was rare, Thai men don't appear to be the best teachers, nor relying on hundreds of clients to do the teaching ether. Techniques are one thing but a woman usually HAS the skills or not, its something the person was born with, plus the chemistry. I find more women with chemistry in Germany rather then in Thailand.

That's interesting, seeing that Thai women have somewhat of a rep for great GFE.
The following quote and urls discuss GFE while comparing Brazil, FKK, and LOS
in various ways.

So, what about the big question, what is the best between German FKK and Brazilian Termas? Hard to give an opinion. Regarding facilities, even Centaurus can’t top the three Frankfurt FKK, but that’s not the most important. Regarding girls, quality level is similar in both, but I still would give the advantage to the German FKK as there is more diversity in origin. However, the main difference is atmosphere. It all depends what you are looking for. German FKK are definitely more erotic. Most girls are naked in FKK, and coach action if not public sex is not uncommon in most German FKK. In the Brazilian Termas, I found the guests very prude, hiding themselves to take a shower and wearing sometimes underwear under the bathrobe. I had trouble with the small size of the bathrobes in Termas, but the girls instantly helped me to hide if anything was visible from my body. There is much more sex in German FKK, multiple sessions for girls and guests is the rule. On the other side, Brazilian Termas are much better for GFE. Girls in Terma are independent and enjoy their job while in German FKK the hordes of Eastern European girls are mainly controlled my mafia and pimps. Not only most guests have only sex once, but also the girls.

The ratio of girls to guest is incredible, most girls don’t even have sex once a day. When they have sex, they really enjoy it. If there is a good chemistry, most girls will give their phone number to meet outside the club, highly uncommon in German FKK. Anyway, I had wonderful experience in Terma as well as in German FKK, sex is a matter of chemistry between you and the girl, no matter where you are.

The other from Jayf last year is from the perspective of a regular Rio traveller after making his first visit to FKK-land.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=866228&postcount=3803

Not much more to add to those comparisons, other than some personal observations.
I have sampled Termas (sadly my last visit was almost 4 years ago, so I can't comment on the current state of affairs there) and visit FKK land quite often. I like to spice things up and add variety from time to time, otherwise, familiar surroundings get stale. Of course great sex can never really get stale, and in both places you can have great erotic experiences. Germany and Brazil, along with Thailand and Macau rank at the top of my favorite places to monger list.

But, as the previous posts show, the overall experiences, as well as little things that set the scene, are quite different. My favorite part of the Termas was the chance to hook up outside of the club environment with a favored provider whom I met at a club, after hours and on subsequent days for a true GFE experience. It would be great if we could work that feature into the FKK scene.

My favorite part of Germany's sex offerings is that there's so much of it, in so many venues, in such a variety of different modes, with a huge variety of different shapes, sizes, nationalities and body types, at an affordable cost and in an incredibly safe, secure and comfortable, by Western standards, environment. It really is unique amongst the Western industrialized countries. It will cost more than Brazil, and you will come back financially poorer, but richer with a new set of experiences, and that may be worth the price.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-2601-p-3.html

lenny · Oct 28, 2011

derkdiggler said:
Something interesting is the Thai women I've done in Germany have all been better then the Thai women in Thailand. Which could mean the exposure to the service required in Germany is higher than in Thailand. I like Thai women, don't get
me wrong, plus I like the prices of Thailand so I'm on your side.

I explained the negatives, fact that a friend came down with and STD. That's another story, when it happens to you what do you do, post it on the internet?

Most of the time you won't hear the horror stories. Much of my info comes from friend like a guy who used to work for many years in Thailand and wrote this book http://www.amazon.com/My-Name-Lon-Yo.../dp/9749272153 He was also a monger of sorts but saw another side of Thailand. Here's an actual video of Lon http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=zHU35YjafLo#!
Do you think this takes place more in Asia or other countries? I would bet it happens more in 3rd world countries.

Are you asking if "horror stories" happen more in Asia? Besides WW II, here's a few things
that relate to Germany:

"In Germany's 2010 crime statistics, 5.93 million criminal acts were committed, down 2 percent from 2009.[1] According to the Interior Ministry, it's the first time the figure has fallen below 6 million offenses since the country was reunified in 1991, and is the lowest crime level since records began.[1] The rate of crimes solved in 2010 was 56 percent, a record high, up from 2009's 55.6%.[1]

"Internet related crime climbed 8.1 percent in 2010, with around 224,000 reported cases.[1] The number of homes broken into in 2010 was also up by 6.6 percent.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Germany

"Germany is a source, transit, and destination country for women, children, and men subjected to trafficking in persons, specifically forced prostitution and forced labor. Ninety percent of identified victims of trafficking for commercial sexual exploitation came from Europe, including 28 percent from Germany, 20 percent from Romania, and 18 percent from Bulgaria.

"...The Government of Germany made clear progress in the conviction of sex and labor trafficking offenders, but most convicted traffickers were not required to serve time in prison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_Germany

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_German_train_bombing_plot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terrorism_in_Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Islamist_terrorism_in_Germany
http://www.is-germany-safe.com/
http://journals.worldnomads.com/saf.../Ticket-Scams-Fake-Inspectors-and-Pickpockets

"There are small and medium-sized towns in Brandenburg, as well as elsewhere, which I would advise a visitor of another skin colour to avoid going to," said Uwe-Karsten Heye, who now leads an anti-racism organization called "Show Your Color." "It is possible he wouldn't get out alive."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,416904,00.html

derkdiggler said:
OK so all added up where is the best place
1. Selection (different races, ages, sizes, countries)
2. Price
3. Cost effective (total price of experience, getting there, time to get there, prices once there).
4. Safety (Crime, disease, rip off )
5. Quality of service (do they CIM, DFK, BBBJ and overall the service.

Someone interested needs to add up all the factors, when a gal nearby asks for say $300 how does that compare to $12 in the Philippines? You do have to figure in that airfare, time off from work etc and other travel costs.

Like the poster who booked escorts and did not get what he wanted thus wasting his entire trip for the most part. Asia will always be better for guys who prefer Asians, but never for variety. Europe will always be safer since its a western world. Just cause something has never happened to you does not mean it can't happen.

That's a nice summary of items re the overall big picture of choosing a sex destination.
Personally i find the Thai ladies' body and femininity preferable to those of Westerners,
though certainly there are many exceptions to that rule.

derkdiggler said:
Oh by the way http://www.bumrungrad.com/thailandhospital right now you CAN'T take your SP there. They have other problems Asia has to deal with floods and tidal waves, bombings etc.

Yes, huge water problems in Thailand lately. Re bombings:

"On July 31, 2006, two people placed two suitcases filled with bombs on regional trains in Germany. The bombs were supposed to go off near Hamm and Koblenz and according to German investigators, would have resulted in the deaths of hundreds of people. However, due to faulty construction, the bombs did not go off.[1]

"German investigators suspected a terrorist organization was behind the plot.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_German_train_bombing_plot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terrorism_in_Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Islamist_terrorism_in_Germany

derkdiggler said:
Yes you have to love Asia, while no one might arrest you from your experience Police do arrest and extort visitors all the time. But this is not something people will tell you on the internet.

Sometimes some Thai police do bad things, illegal things. They have something of a rep for corruption, as does the government and country in general. OTOH there are corrupt evil police throughout the world. But if you don't think these things are spoken of on the internet, i suggest you do a search of the words "police extortion thailand". The following case led many people to say they would take their holidays elsewhere rather than LOS, and almost influenced me to do the same:

"The highly publicised alleged extortion by police of a pair of British tourists arrested at Suvarnabhumi airport for shoplifting has served to focus international attention on a problem long recognised in Thailand. Hopefully it will also focus attention here at home on solving the problem. In far too many instances and for far too long police have been accused and in some instances found guilty of setting up innocent people, taking them into custody and charging them with a crime, with the sole motive of trading the freedom of the bewildered victims for a profit."

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/20947/police-extortion-points-to-a-fundamental-flaw
http://www.asiatradingonline.com/airlinethefts.htm
http://www.thai-blogs.com/2010/09/12/the-litter-scam-in-bangkok/
http://www.voyage.gc.ca/countries_pays/report_rapport-eng.asp?id=290000

BTW it seemed earlier you were implying you know people in Thai prisons for picking up a hooker
when you posted this:

"Plus paid sex is NOT legal in Thailand and while guys will tell you its does not matter I know a few guys who are in Thai prisons. They don't want you to know about this as its bad for tourism."

I suggest if that were the case, it would be all over the internet and media, just as occurred in the
above mentioned airport scam, as well as the other scams detailed in the links above. Of course
if these guys you know were, for example, having sex with underage TGs, then it is understood
why they are in the 'Bangkok Hilton'. As to having sex for money with adult Thai prostitutes:

"Prostitution in Thailand is illegal, although in practice it is tolerated and partly regulated. Prostitution is practiced openly throughout the country [1][2] Local officials with commercial interests in prostitution often protect the practice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand

"The "Entertainment Places Act of 1966" is one of the modern laws regulating massage parlors, go-go bars, karaoke bars, bathhouses and similar establishments. Under this law such establishments are required to be licensed. The law does not expressedly permit prostitution, but allows for "service providers" and "bath service providers," differentiated from regular, non-sexual service staff.[11] For example, there are massage parlors where men come and look at women, who are sitting separated by a glass wall (known as a "fishbowl"), and may choose whom they want. The women go to a room where they bathe and massage the customers, but in reality may do much more than that.

"The Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act, B.E. 2539 (1996) (the “Prostitution Law”), is the central legal framework prohibiting prostitution. The law defines prostitution as any act done to gratify the sexual desire of another in exchange for money or any other benefit, but only if it is done “in a promiscuous manner”. The Prostitution Law does not define what exactly a “promiscuous manner” constitutes, and the act of prostitution by itself is not outlawed anymore, while solicitation is. The crime of solicitation is vaguely defined.

"A person soliciting the services of a prostitute is liable under the Prostitution Law if the solicitation is done “openly and shamelessly or causes a nuisance to the public”, the penalty being a fine of up to 1,000 baht.[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#Legal_situation_and_history

derkdiggler said:
They don't want people to know they were anywhere near paid sex. Remember you'e dealing with a culture where bribery is accepted. So if something happened and the police came who would they believe YOU or the gal or guy who speaks fluent Thai?

If this happened in my hotel in BKK, I believe the police would side with me, not the Thai hooker.
If it happened elsewhere, i might be given the choice between being fucked or bribe LE with a few
thousand baht.

derkdiggler said:
Funny how people want to convince themselves a place is safe only since they themselves have never experienced
a problem. Sort of like going to Mexico now, I know people personally who are dead that there are still those who claim its totally safe.

We should also include the PI (Phillipines) which I hear is even cheaper then Thailand plus almost everyone speaks English.

From what i've read i got the impression PI and Mexico are less safe than Thailand for travellers.
Both made this list of top 10 most dangerous countries for tourists:

http://www.traveltowork.net/2009/04/list-of-10-most-dangerous-countries-for-tourists/

Thailand made this list of safest countries for women to travel alone:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/959027/safe_countries_for_women_to_travel.html?cat=12

best places in vancouver to view a decent lineup, if any?

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