Is this "Let's Stereotype and be as Offensive as Possible" Day?

[violetblake]

I've just been reading through a few threads on here, and have seen people make racist and sexist and just altogether offensive statements. I know this is the internet, but these are real words you're saying. I highly doubt most of the people saying these things would have the balls to say it out loud in person in front of people they didn't know, or even people they did know.

So, just to put in my two cents...

"Feminine" qualities doesn't mean submissive.
All asian women aren't submissive.
A society where women worship men but men don't worship women is a bad thing, just like vice versa would be a bad thing. Equality is the only way to go.
Western women don't hate men, if you think wanting equality comes across as hating men, then you have issues of your own to deal with.
Some women are dominant, some men are dominant, in a relationship or in bed. We're individuals who are guided by who we are, not whether we have a pussy or a dick.
Please stop assuming what SPs think and feel. If an SP says she loves sex, she probably does. Please don't assume that she hates her job or that she hates sex or men or that she's lying about everything.

This doesn't even cover all the stereotypes and offensive things I've read today, and I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. I'm just sick of reading it and wanted to say something. So please people, think about what you're saying. Stereotypes are ignorant, and only make you look that much more stupid for believing them. They're also harmful, and breed prejudice.

 

[Webster]

Geez, good luck in this thread.

But yeah, generalizations are not the greatest thing to fall back on in dealing with individuals...and they can be infuriating.

I was recently talking to someone who said "women do X" and I responded with "well most of the women I know do Y" and had to stop for a sec and remind myself that the women I know are both a set I have selected and also a set that has selected me. That is not a random sample from which I can draw conclusions.

 

[Umbras]

I've just been reading through a few threads on here, and have seen people make racist and sexist and just altogether offensive statements. I know this is the internet, but these are real words you're saying. I highly doubt most of the people saying these things would have the balls to say it out loud in person in front of people they didn't know, or even people they did know.

So, just to put in my two cents...

"Feminine" qualities doesn't mean submissive.
All asian women aren't submissive.
A society where women worship men but men don't worship women is a bad thing, just like vice versa would be a bad thing. Equality is the only way to go.
Western women don't hate men, if you think wanting equality comes across as hating men, then you have issues of your own to deal with.
Some women are dominant, some men are dominant, in a relationship or in bed. We're individuals who are guided by who we are, not whether we have a pussy or a dick.
Please stop assuming what SPs think and feel. If an SP says she loves sex, she probably does. Please don't assume that she hates her job or that she hates sex or men or that she's lying about everything.

This doesn't even cover all the stereotypes and offensive things I've read today, and I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. I'm just sick of reading it and wanted to say something. So please people, think about what you're saying. Stereotypes are ignorant, and only make you look that much more stupid for believing them. They're also harmful, and breed prejudice.

People primarily post with whatever attitude they wish, for them that is the benefit of anonymity of a forum. They can act and treat others with disrespect without the fear of repercussions other than getting flamed and banned and even then they move to another forum to start the cycle over or create another acct as many have done here.

You will probably find that most people who act like that on Perb are not actual "pooners", so for them there is no risk of getting blacklisted for bad attitude. If they are a "pooner" then I would bet they would never admit thier Perb identity for the same reason.

Other than that, it comes from how a person was raised and how willing they are to break from the herd of ignorance, look past stereotypes and open thier minds to understand that a certain percentage of the population does not represent the rest of humanity. Having met and talked with a few of the ladies here, I have had a few of my own misconceptions clarified about the industry, and also from reading some of my fellow members well thought out and insightfull postings.

It also comes down to having common sense and understanding of what consideratio for others really means, of course it would be a perfect world then and we would not be talking about this exact thing.

 

[juniper]

I've just been reading through a few threads on here, and have seen people make racist and sexist and just altogether offensive statements. I know this is the internet, but these are real words you're saying. I highly doubt most of the people saying these things would have the balls to say it out loud in person in front of people they didn't know, or even people they did know.

So, just to put in my two cents...

"Feminine" qualities doesn't mean submissive.
All asian women aren't submissive.
A society where women worship men but men don't worship women is a bad thing, just like vice versa would be a bad thing. Equality is the only way to go.
Western women don't hate men, if you think wanting equality comes across as hating men, then you have issues of your own to deal with.
Some women are dominant, some men are dominant, in a relationship or in bed. We're individuals who are guided by who we are, not whether we have a pussy or a dick.
Please stop assuming what SPs think and feel. If an SP says she loves sex, she probably does. Please don't assume that she hates her job or that she hates sex or men or that she's lying about everything.

This doesn't even cover all the stereotypes and offensive things I've read today, and I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. I'm just sick of reading it and wanted to say something. So please people, think about what you're saying. Stereotypes are ignorant, and only make you look that much more stupid for believing them. They're also harmful, and breed prejudice.

Does the word "culture" mean anything at all to you, Ms. Blake? If so, does it not imply that people and societies may be broadly defined by an overarching system within which are many variants. If you do not believe in cultures, this then gives you the perogative to maintain that individuals differ broadly no matter in which the system and that they act (broadly speaking) all the same with the same number of variants and extremes and norms as well. For my part, it's quite obvious that people have very different understandings of norms depending in which culture they were brought up. I have travelled a good deal, lived in foreign climes, speak a multiplicity of languages (one aspect of culture and cognitive norms, incidentally) and I would maintain that in order to comprehend how people think and act, one must understand their respective cultures as opposed to what you seem to maintain, that all people are alike and different as well and attempting to understand them according to their respective cultures is mere stereotyping. Perhaps you would like to get off your high horse and think...about it.

 

[laurel love]

hmmm...I think Ms. Blake should get comfy in that saddle. She has made some good points.

I have met a variety of Asian women (East Indian and Middle Eastern included) in this country who are gainfully employed (nurses, care-aids, teachers, and waitresses) or students and they all complain about the same thing.

White guys in this country view them as potential 'Geishas'. These women celebrate their culture and have a great deal of pride in their ethnicity but they are puzzled by the way Western men view them.

I'll tell you one thing: subservient they are not!

Surviving in their homeland meant being outgoing...shrinking feminine women do not bring home the best buys. Life is far more competitive in these countries.

One Japanese lady I met was so irritated that the men who seemed to be after her were old...she wanted a young fellow. Another Japanese woman told her they were looking for 'housekeeper, nurse, sex partner" all rolled into one.....they both laughed at that.

I find women from these countries sharp as tacks when doing business. My Korean friend who manages a gas station is very petite and extremely pretty...she will refuse a customer, man or woman, and ask them to leave if she suspects they are shoplifting and she has a very powerful manner when speaking in these situations. No one argues with her.

I find women from around the globe to be fairly similar in purpose and opinion. If you get them all into a room speaking the same language your ears would burn!

 

[C-GAUN]

Please stop assuming what SPs think and feel. If an SP says she loves sex, she probably does. Please don't assume that she hates her job or that she hates sex or men or that she's lying about everything.

And so if an SP says anything it's absolute truth eh? SP's never lie huh?

Too funny.

Don't really understand the point of this thread.

 

[violetblake]

Juniper, certainly culture and upbringing have an impact on people, but to assume someone is a certain way because they were brought up in said culture is stereotyping.

C-GAUN, please quote the part where I said SPs only tell the truth and never lie. I said she "probably" likes sex. If you're going to assume anything about anybody, please assume that what they're telling you is true, that's it. Unless you have valid reason to believe otherwise (based on that particular person's actions, not based on someone else you know or heard of from a friend of a friend who did something kind of similar) believe what that person is telling you, don't disregard their opinions because it doesn't fit with yours.

My point, and I'm really not sure how I could make it any clearer, lol, is not to stereotype. Not to assume things about people based on stereotypes. Basically, to treat people equally and with respect. Not that difficult of a concept, and it definitely makes you and everyone around you happier.

 

[C-GAUN]

That's exactly my point. Youre stating stereotypes are bad, and not to assume things. Fair. But then you're asking me to assume you're telling the truth, because you say so. All I'm saying is assuming anything, regardless, is poor judgement.

Unless you're somebody I know and trust personally, I rarely take anyones word for anything. No offence. Only a few things we can all safely assume : we're all going to die, we're all going to pay tax, and that tomorrow the sun will rise in the east and set in the west. (presuming you aren't flying west at supersonic speeds whereby the sun may rise in the west; I digress)

 

[violetblake]

That's exactly my point. Youre stating stereotypes are bad, and not to assume things. Fair. But then you're asking me to assume you're telling the truth, because you say so. All I'm saying is assuming anything, regardless, is poor judgement.

Unless you're somebody I know and trust personally, I rarely take anyones word for anything. No offence. Only a few things we can all safely assume : we're all going to die, we're all going to pay tax, and that tomorrow the sun will rise in the east and set in the west. (presuming you aren't flying west at supersonic speeds whereby the sun may rise in the west; I digress)

Hey, I agree. No one should assume anything. That's why I said "If you're going to assume anything about anybody, please assume that what they're telling you is true". If you're going to be making assumptions about people, the least you can do is make positive assumptions. But frankly you should just use your head and not assume anything. My point is pretty clear: don't stereotype or make assumptions based on stereotypes. That's all I'm saying! lol.

 

[lenny]

This doesn't even cover all the stereotypes and offensive things I've read today

Speaking of "stereotypes":

Western women don't hate men

Some do.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/stereotype
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stereotype

"Feminine" qualities doesn't mean submissive.

"While the defining characteristics of femininity are not universally identical, some patterns exist. Gentleness, empathy, sensitivity, caring, compassion, tolerance, nurturance, deference, self-abasement, and succorance are behaviors generally considered feminine.[8][9][16][17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femininity

def·er·ence

1.respectful submission or yielding to the judgment, opinion, will, etc., of another.
2.respectful or courteous regard: in deference to his wishes.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/deference

1. submission to or compliance with the will, wishes, etc., of another
2. courteous regard; respect
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/deference

1.Submission or courteous yielding to the opinion, wishes, or judgment of another.
2.Courteous respect. See synonyms at honor.
http://www.answers.com/topic/deference

 

[juniper]

That's exactly my point. Youre stating stereotypes are bad, and not to assume things. Fair. But then you're asking me to assume you're telling the truth, because you say so. All I'm saying is assuming anything, regardless, is poor judgement.

Unless you're somebody I know and trust personally, I rarely take anyones word for anything. No offence. Only a few things we can all safely assume : we're all going to die, we're all going to pay tax, and that tomorrow the sun will rise in the east and set in the west. (presuming you aren't flying west at supersonic speeds whereby the sun may rise in the west; I digress)

`paying taxes`: I did manage to avoid that for many years.

 

[old pooner]

White guys in this country view them as potential 'Geishas'.

I find women from these countries sharp as tacks when doing business.

Aren't you stereotyping with these comments? I agree with Juniper.....cultural upbringing DOES play a large part in personal attitudes. This doesn't mean people can't break away from these viewpoints. I have changed my views (that are contrary to my parents views) on many subjects.

 

[juniper]

hmmm...I think Ms. Blake should get comfy in that saddle. She has made some good points.

I have met a variety of Asian women (East Indian and Middle Eastern included) in this country who are gainfully employed (nurses, care-aids, teachers, and waitresses) or students and they all complain about the same thing.

White guys in this country view them as potential 'Geishas'. These women celebrate their culture and have a great deal of pride in their ethnicity but they are puzzled by the way Western men view them.

I'll tell you one thing: subservient they are not!

Surviving in their homeland meant being outgoing...shrinking feminine women do not bring home the best buys. Life is far more competitive in these countries.

One Japanese lady I met was so irritated that the men who seemed to be after her were old...she wanted a young fellow. Another Japanese woman told her they were looking for 'housekeeper, nurse, sex partner" all rolled into one.....they both laughed at that.

I find women from these countries sharp as tacks when doing business. My Korean friend who manages a gas station is very petite and extremely pretty...she will refuse a customer, man or woman, and ask them to leave if she suspects they are shoplifting and she has a very powerful manner when speaking in these situations. No one argues with her.

I find women from around the globe to be fairly similar in purpose and opinion. If you get them all into a room speaking the same language your ears would burn!

Interesting points, Laurel. With globalization, cultures become more porous and more and more alike as a result. When people were more isolated, cultures were more distinct. Thanks for pushing me to think more creatively or, at least, more clearly.

 

[Bartdude]

I've just been reading through a few threads on here, and have seen people make racist and sexist and just altogether offensive statements.

And in other breaking news - the Earth revolves around the Sun

 

[violetblake]

Speaking of "stereotypes":



Some do.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/stereotype
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stereotype



"While the defining characteristics of femininity are not universally identical, some patterns exist. Gentleness, empathy, sensitivity, caring, compassion, tolerance, nurturance, deference, self-abasement, and succorance are behaviors generally considered feminine.[8][9][16][17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femininity

def·er·ence

1.respectful submission or yielding to the judgment, opinion, will, etc., of another.
2.respectful or courteous regard: in deference to his wishes.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/deference

1. submission to or compliance with the will, wishes, etc., of another
2. courteous regard; respect
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/deference

1.Submission or courteous yielding to the opinion, wishes, or judgment of another.
2.Courteous respect. See synonyms at honor.
http://www.answers.com/topic/deference

Honestly, I think the idea of feminine or masculine qualities are kind of silly. As we evolve we are being less and less forced to adhere to society's ideas about what is feminine or masculine, and that's as it should be. Women should be free to be butch, men should be free to cry if they want to, etc. Sure, there are certainly biological differences between women and men. But I believe a lot of the differences we see have more to do with how society and culture raises us than how we inherently are.

So no, submission is not a feminine quality unless perhaps all females are brought up that way. And sure, in certain cultures you may find more of it. But to expect a person of said race or culture to be that way or to assume they're that way is stereotyping. And one gender being submissive to another is not a good thing. There should be a good balance of submission and dominance in each person and it should be equal between the genders. To prefer women to be submissive to men, just as to prefer men to be submissive to women, that is sexist.

 

[old pooner]

Don't forget, Violet. You are probably a lot younger than many of us pooners. I was brought up in the 50's and attitudes were MUCH different then. e.g. When I was going to highschool, every (and I mean EVERY) girl in my class wanted to be a teacher or nurse. Girls just weren't encouraged to have more ambitious goals.

 

[lenny]

So no, submission is not a feminine quality unless perhaps all females are brought up that way.

You look kinda submissive in that photo, on your knees, bending over.

 

[vancity_cowboy]

You look kinda submissive in that photo, on your knees, bending over.

lenny, in the world of animal behaviour that's known as 'presenting'... just sayin'

 

[violetblake]

Old Pooner, you're right, things have changed. But it's because of people speaking up and bringing attention to these issues that it's happened. And it will continue to change

Lenny, I'm not sure how that's supposed to be an argument, but yes, it's a slightly submissive pose I guess. So? Like I said, a well-rounded person has submissive qualities and dominant qualities. I have both. But no one should be all of either.

 

[vancity_cowboy]

Like I said, a well-rounded person has submissive qualities and dominant qualities. I have both. But no one should be all of either.

...and from what i can see in the photo - you surely are well-rounded, one part of you at least...