Will New Law Hurt Us in Edmonton???

[Bad Santa]

I was just reading that the City of Edmonton is proposing a new bylaw regulating MPs and escorts. They will now be subject to inspection by a committee and SPs will be forced to take a course on "Exploitation in the Sex Industry" before being licensed.

I wonder if this will discourage many from entering the business or even cause some of our best SPs to retire from the business or move elsewhere.

Many MPs will probably be shut down. All in all it probably won't be a good situation for us here in Edmonton. They say Calgary and Vancouver are looking at doing the same.

Here's the story.

 

[storm rider]

It sounds like the City of Edmonton is looking for a cash grab from the rub & tug scene.

SR

 

[69guy]

Aaaargh. The 4 licenses that the city insists I hold already run me close to $3,000 annually.... I hope there is not a substantial increase in fees - most girls already cannot afford the current ones (let alone ANYTHING typically, hence why they enter into the adult industry in the first place). A fee increase will only force more women underground and/or increase rates for clients. I am all for the educational course though as long as it includes resources and community-linkage for sex providers and isn't solely for a righteous condemnation speech of our choice in employment. The city needs to realize that we need SUPPORT....not greater restrictions and higher fees. Sooo frustrating!

very well said.

 

[EveAdams]

I posted this in response to the same question on another board - hopefully it gives another viewpoint to the conversation here.

I have lots of thoughts on licensing and industry regulation. Took me a while to write this one out. I called in sick to work and am supposed to be relaxing but here I am getting all riled up about equality. Here goes ...

I think its a great idea to have an information session before becoming licensed. Personally, I have always thought that upon receiving your license you should get a booklet explaining the by-law and its nuances in plain English. For instance, with a license like mine, I cannot offer a "massage" at the door. I can only offer a "session". Where is that for the new girl to make sure she knows what to do? While it is true that we can access the by-law at any time, making it relevant in real time situations would make it easier to follow for some girls.

Complaints on the aggressivness of the multi-faceted task force that they are proposing usually centre on the "does a hair salon require than kind of inspection?" type of argument. The point is that there are a few more factors that affect the Adult Entertainment business than a regular company. Drugs, intimidation, violence can all be present. I see no problem with being on top of those issues. The Licensing department / Vice might come off as over bearing in the media but I have never had an issue with them. They have always had the girls backs in my experience. Also, the fees are nominal in comparison to what is made. An Independent Escort license is $2000 or a weekends work for most girls. Increases are simply community pleasing optics I believe. I laugh when people say "licensing is a money grab". In the scheme of things, it is negligible. Fees are deterrents, not a large revenue stream for the City.

My problem comes with the even stiffer regulations on MPs which already have so many rules imposed on them. I think that right now in Edmonton, we are seeing an explosion of girls working out of their houses (never legal with any license) to avoid conforming with either legal, licensing or operation guidelines. PERB members are not always a worry but it can be dangerous to work, alone, out of a condo while inviting a perfect stranger in. Right now, the flaw in the by-law is there is no place for independents and no way to ensure that these girls are being given with the same rights as MPAs / Escorts. They also have no way of tracking who is working or keeping tabs on girls to ensure nothing happens. Independent girls don't get warnings about problem clients from Vice. They don't have that relationship that MPA's or Escorts may have. If a client ran out without paying or was violent, I would call the Vice Det immediately. The Detective pledged, while standing right next to me, to work to make sure girls are NOT being taken advantage of. I wonder how many independents would call? They deserve to be guaranteed the same protection.

The by-law in my mind should change to at least work with these girls, for safety if nothing else. I think that the Licensing department is struggling on how to work with this group, which could be as big as the MPA group or Escort group. Their reform won't mean a thing if they don't do something that promotes inclusion. I have to ask, "why add regulations to an area that is already strict and ignore a large and totally unregulated group of ladies?" It really won't do a thing for the city. They are headed in the right direction by being proactive about MPs and Escort Agencies but they haven't even developed a strategy for communication with Independents. Since that is the case, the reform is unsuccessful to me.

What are other peoples thoughts? You can't license people in residential areas for such a business so, how can you make sure that everyone is taken care of and no one is pushed 'underground'. It's a tough one.

** NOTE: I have worked out a condo (not my own I was too scared), as an escort and in an MP. I have been close to this issue for a while and my opinions might only be based on my experience and not the consensus.

 

[Bad Santa]

Aaaargh. The 4 licenses that the city insists I hold already run me close to $3,000 annually.... I hope there is not a substantial increase in fees - most girls already cannot afford the current ones (let alone ANYTHING typically, hence why they enter into the adult industry in the first place). A fee increase will only force more women underground and/or increase rates for clients. I am all for the educational course though as long as it includes resources and community-linkage for sex providers and isn't solely for a righteous condemnation speech of our choice in employment. The city needs to realize that we need SUPPORT....not greater restrictions and higher fees. Sooo frustrating!

I posted this in response to the same question on another board - hopefully it gives another viewpoint to the conversation here.

I have lots of thoughts on licensing and industry regulation. Took me a while to write this one out. I called in sick to work and am supposed to be relaxing but here I am getting all riled up about equality. Here goes ...

I think its a great idea to have an information session before becoming licensed. Personally, I have always thought that upon receiving your license you should get a booklet explaining the by-law and its nuances in plain English. For instance, with a license like mine, I cannot offer a "massage" at the door. I can only offer a "session". Where is that for the new girl to make sure she knows what to do? While it is true that we can access the by-law at any time, making it relevant in real time situations would make it easier to follow for some girls.

Complaints on the aggressivness of the multi-faceted task force that they are proposing usually centre on the "does a hair salon require than kind of inspection?" type of argument. The point is that there are a few more factors that affect the Adult Entertainment business than a regular company. Drugs, intimidation, violence can all be present. I see no problem with being on top of those issues. The Licensing department / Vice might come off as over bearing in the media but I have never had an issue with them. They have always had the girls backs in my experience. Also, the fees are nominal in comparison to what is made. An Independent Escort license is $2000 or a weekends work for most girls. Increases are simply community pleasing optics I believe. I laugh when people say "licensing is a money grab". In the scheme of things, it is negligible. Fees are deterrents, not a large revenue stream for the City.

My problem comes with the even stiffer regulations on MPs which already have so many rules imposed on them. I think that right now in Edmonton, we are seeing an explosion of girls working out of their houses (never legal with any license) to avoid conforming with either legal, licensing or operation guidelines. PERB members are not always a worry but it can be dangerous to work, alone, out of a condo while inviting a perfect stranger in. Right now, the flaw in the by-law is there is no place for independents and no way to ensure that these girls are being given with the same rights as MPAs / Escorts. They also have no way of tracking who is working or keeping tabs on girls to ensure nothing happens. Independent girls don't get warnings about problem clients from Vice. They don't have that relationship that MPA's or Escorts may have. If a client ran out without paying or was violent, I would call the Vice Det immediately. The Detective pledged, while standing right next to me, to work to make sure girls are NOT being taken advantage of. I wonder how many independents would call? They deserve to be guaranteed the same protection.

The by-law in my mind should change to at least work with these girls, for safety if nothing else. I think that the Licensing department is struggling on how to work with this group, which could be as big as the MPA group or Escort group. Their reform won't mean a thing if they don't do something that promotes inclusion. I have to ask, "why add regulations to an area that is already strict and ignore a large and totally unregulated group of ladies?" It really won't do a thing for the city. They are headed in the right direction by being proactive about MPs and Escort Agencies but they haven't even developed a strategy for communication with Independents. Since that is the case, the reform is unsuccessful to me.

What are other peoples thoughts? You can't license people in residential areas for such a business so, how can you make sure that everyone is taken care of and no one is pushed 'underground'. It's a tough one.

** NOTE: I have worked out a condo (not my own I was too scared), as an escort and in an MP. I have been close to this issue for a while and my opinions might only be based on my experience and not the consensus.

Kendra, Eve, thank you for your excellent responses to this thread. It really gives me a different perspective and new insight into this issue. I guess a 'course' would be a good thing for most SPs entering the business as long as it actually gives valuable information and resources to women entering the business and is not just a moralistic speech as Kendra says.

As for the inspection committee. It should definitely include a lady who has previously worked as an MPA or escort or preferably both, to help give a more practical and human perspective rather than just making it a bureaucratic hammer to squeeze more money out of MPs and escorts and make being in business more difficult for them.

 

[outlaw]

Does anybody think that this is anything but another cash grab?

They talk of having a mandatory course with regards to exploitation.....this is a good idea but who will take the course?..... The girls on the street working for their fucking boyfriends or drug habits? - Nope. The girls working out of apartments and residential neighbourhoods without a licence? -Nope. It will be the responsible ladies that are already licenced and are already following the rules and already paying the city a ridiculous amount of money to ply their trade. In other words, it won't be the girls who would benefit the most from this course that will be taking it.

A sex industry enforcement team? Isn't that what the vice officers already do? Jordana and the other two guys from vice regularly visit all studios in the city, if they need more staff, they should hire more instead of creating another level of bureaucracy.

If they are worried about massage therapy centers being confused with body-rub facilities, then change the name on studio licences to no longer read 'massage centre' and don't allow body-rub places to use the word 'massage' in their signage and advertising. Oh, and get the Edmonton Sun not to use the word massage in their adult ads.

And sorry Eve, but my experiences with vice investigating criminal acts towards working girls has been less than stellar. I have several examples of incidents where working girls are treated like second class citizens when it comes to having complaints investigated that I can't mention here. They only want to do the easy work not the hard work. For example: There are many girls working in this business and advertising on Backpage and Duttslist that are not licenced and their phone numbers are right there! Why doesn't vice go after the people blatantly going against current bylaws instead of harrassing those that do toe the line? Jordana assured me that they do stings and do investigate them......blah, blah, blah, that's why there are so many of them, right?

The city makes well in excess of $100,000.00 annually from MPs and MPAs not to mention what they earn from escorts, escort agencies, strip clubs, etc. They know full well the earning potential of this industry, that's why it exists in this form.

 

[EveAdams]

Well we'll agree to disagree on a few points but we are mostly on the same page. A cash grab of $100,000.00...that's pretty small in comparison to any costs. The licensing inspectors salary is 50+. Most companies work on 1:1.5 ratio of salary:salary+expenses. If they are going to hire these new people, there goes their ~$25,000 profit margin.

Making more resources available isn't a bad thing. Kendra - you are right, we need support! As a MPA,I would be happy to see some more involvement and community outreach. I have worked with girls who have needed help and haven't had the slightest idea where to go. They needed a community liaison officer who worked with Vice, Social Services, Educational Institutions and other community stakeholders. It is not just street girls that struggle with drugs, pimps, and emotional intimidation. That happens more than people would like to admit. While I don't have that problem, thank goodness, I might be able to better deal with it in the working environment if I was educated properly. Almost every profession has staff development and education available. Why should we be different? This outreach does need to include girls who are unlicensed and have a strategic plan to deal with the problem. It sucks when you are on the line for the extra expense but if that expense does go to the proper channels and improves the industry we are better off. I guess it is up to us, as the clients (licensed individuals), to demand parity and accountability through the whole industry, regulated or not. For me, no I don't agree with the way this reform of the industry is planned but we have to address the real problem areas to move forward and not focus on the things like unpublished increases in fees. I will send my comments to the Planning and Development department on Monday - even one voice is louder than nothing.

As a note I have been in many situations with Vice and Licensing and they have only treated everyone with respect. I can't comment on what I haven't seen. I have been lucky to have never been put in a situation of feeling like a 2nd class citizen. I am sure I would respond poorly to that lol. I also know there are people busted more than is widely reported. I know of four girls on BP that I have worked with in MPs that have been busted but just waited a week and put their ad back up with a new name! One didn't even change her name or number! That is a constant frustration to me as well - however, when I consider the risk its not one I would be willing to take.

MP's get the worst rep and bear the brunt of the public scrutiny. It isn't fair as we go through all the appropriate channels set forth by the City and the ones who don't seem to flourish. I'm not sure the solution but I can suggest what I would like to see through my own experience. Hopefully it helps out even a tiny amount.

Eve

Thanks for the discussion - it's good to get as many takes on it as possible. When we all have a common theme in our answers then the solution is easy to see.

 

[jim]

Aaaargh. The 4 licenses that the city insists I hold already run me close to $3,000 annually.

Hi Kendra,

I'm assuming your 4 licenses are the exception verses an MPA working in a parlour.

There are a lot of 'straight' jobs that have costs associated with them. My bill for dues and annual professional development is in excess of $2,000 a year and I make nowhere near what a MPA is pulling in.

 

[insertcoolsaying]

Exactly what we need in this country - more bureaucracy! It's a pipe-dream that more regulation in the industry will change anything - it's political posturing, and nothing more. We don't have unlimited law enforcement resources, so, c'mon, focus on where they are really needed, on real criminal activity!! Participation in this discussion beyond that, is a waste of time - that's what bureaucrats get paid for!

 

[rossedm34]

I think it's a cash grab. Ultimately what you're paying an SP for is time. Aside from a business license for tax purposes there shouldn't be any additional fees paid since they are self employed. Writers, artists, consultants and other self employed aren't forced to pay for licenses or have to sit through a warning course, why should an SP be forced to do such things just because sex is involved?

 

[unlucky]

of course it is a cash grab mandel is losing a battle with the hookers on 118th ave so he found a way to avoid the situation there so now if ya dont go to a course he can nail you with heavy fines. also there are the bleeding heart bible thumpin sex is for procreation not recreation people who feel that it is wrong yet they probably have cameras in the sack taping themselves so the can rate themselves later ppl . why not nail all the ppl who dont pay child support or abuse women with big fines . all of this shit started cause a couple got offended in nisku .

 

[Annalise Lane]

Making more resources available isn't a bad thing. Kendra - you are right, we need support! As a MPA,I would be happy to see some more involvement and community outreach. I have worked with girls who have needed help and haven't had the slightest idea where to go. They needed a community liaison officer who worked with Vice, Social Services, Educational Institutions and other community stakeholders. It is not just street girls that struggle with drugs, pimps, and emotional intimidation. That happens more than people would like to admit. While I don't have that problem, thank goodness, I might be able to better deal with it in the working environment if I was educated properly. Almost every profession has staff development and education available. Why should we be different? This outreach does need to include girls who are unlicensed and have a strategic plan to deal with the problem. It sucks when you are on the line for the extra expense but if that expense does go to the proper channels and improves the industry we are better off. I guess it is up to us, as the clients (licensed individuals), to demand parity and accountability through the whole industry, regulated or not. For me, no I don't agree with the way this reform of the industry is planned but we have to address the real problem areas to move forward and not focus on the things like unpublished increases in fees. I will send my comments to the Planning and Development department on Monday - even one voice is louder than nothing.

Eve - For education we have a resource you can access PACE - I believe their name will be changing soon. They have private donors who support colleges. Personally I only used them once at the end of my 3 years of school because my work load became so intense I could hardly work. The school I went to was not one of the donors supported schools, however because I was in my last semester they paid it out of the "John School Funds". More girls need to access this !!

Eve - Emotional Support - PACE - also offers this free. You can get counseling, by trained counselors. They will also advocate for you with the Police if you are in trouble, this includes the "Independents (unlicensed and SW's), not just MP's and Escorts. They will advocate for you if you need a lawyer. Though I doubt they can do much if you are charged with "living off the procedes of crime" (no lawyer can help that is worth their salt, but you can get a free lawyer and hope he's got the nads to do his job) ~shurgs~

My opinion of these changes: I AGREE with everything they are proposing but would rather see the MP Owners be charge the SAME fee's Escort Agency's are charged to run their business, but they dont and wont. MP's have as many girls working for them as an Escort Agency yet their fee is Nominal in comparison. MP girls fee's should be the same as an Escort Fee, but they will be higher now. It makes no sense why there is so many different pay structures when it's all the same business.

 

[webguy]

As for the inspection committee. It should definitely include a lady who has previously worked as an MPA or escort or preferably both, to help give a more practical and human perspective rather than just making it a bureaucratic hammer to squeeze more money out of MPs and escorts and make being in business more difficult for them.

I imagine most women would not list "SP in Edmonton for 5 years" on their resume'.

 

[Bad Santa]

I imagine most women would not list "SP in Edmonton for 5 years" on their resume'.

There are SPs like Susi here on PERB who will proudly advocate for their sister SPs. These strong women know they have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. More power to them!