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Car leasing

bcneil

I am from BC
Aug 24, 2007
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Does anyone knows how early lease buyouts work.
My friends wants to buy her car out.
Her residual value is $9000. Her Payments are $500 plus hst. She has 7 payments left on her lease term. Believe it was a 36 month term.

She asked how much to just buy it now. They come up with over $18000 plus HST.

Is this normal if you end a lease early? Even to buy the car?
Or did they just suck at the math?
 

TooLegit

New member
Apr 28, 2011
47
0
0
Leasing is usually reserved for people that want to upgrade their vehicle every few years. Lease ends, you just lease a newer model. If she wanted to buy a car, she should have just financed it.
 

wilde

Sinnear Member
Jun 4, 2003
3,037
44
48
Does anyone knows how early lease buyouts work.
My friends wants to buy her car out.
Her residual value is $9000. Her Payments are $500 plus hst. She has 7 payments left on her lease term. Believe it was a 36 month term.

She asked how much to just buy it now. They come up with over $18000 plus HST.

Is this normal if you end a lease early? Even to buy the car?
Or did they just suck at the math?
Early buyout should cost you just a little less than if you sumed up the remaining payments plus the buyout residual because of the time value of money. In your friend's case, they either suck at math or do not want her to buy it out early which is stupid (money now is always better than money later).
 

whoisjohngalt

Member
Aug 4, 2009
147
1
18
Vancouver area
If the lease contract has a penalty clause for early buyout then simply keep making the payments and buy it out for the residual value at the end of the lease. There is nothing to be gained by buying out early as you are effectively giving the lessor an interest free loan.

Another possible reason for the buyout being so high is that your friend may have exceeded the allowable kilometers under the lease, in which case she will have to pay a per kilometer penalty as stipulated in the lease agreement. There is also a charge for abnormal wear and tear and damage to the vehicle.
 

bcneil

I am from BC
Aug 24, 2007
2,095
0
36
Early buyout should cost you just a little less than if you sumed up the remaining payments plus the buyout residual because of the time value of money. In your friend's case, they either suck at math or do not want her to buy it out early which is stupid (money now is always better than money later).
Thats what I was kind of thinking. Worse case should be residual, plus total of all remainding payments. Around $12500.
But they are about $5700 more. I can understand them charging penalties, if you lease a car for 48 months or whatever, with nothing down, and want to return it 6 months later. But this seems bad for business.

They rather have her pay 7 more $500 payments, then a $9000 lumpsum next Winter.
Instead of the same total now.
 

bcneil

I am from BC
Aug 24, 2007
2,095
0
36
Another possible reason for the buyout being so high is that your friend may have exceeded the allowable kilometers under the lease, in which case she will have to pay a per kilometer penalty as stipulated in the lease agreement. There is also a charge for abnormal wear and tear and damage to the vehicle.
She wants to buy the car and keep it.
 

the old maxx50

New member
Dec 22, 2010
779
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Looks like whoisjohngalt got a little mixed up there . . I am facing the possibility of exster charges on my lease return . I am 40.000 km over which is @12 cent a km so i am looking at $5000 to pay them plus some small dints .. My buyout after 4 yrs on my F150 is about $16000 so I am going to have to ask is it worth it to keep ..

But returning a lease vehicle is the only time you have to pay them for those things .. A penalty for early buy pout that sound odd when they will not get any more money if you just keep paying to the end and then buy out .. She need s to read her a agreement .
 

huggzy

Banned
May 30, 2010
616
2
18
Thats what I was kind of thinking. Worse case should be residual, plus total of all remainding payments. Around $12500.
But they are about $5700 more. I can understand them charging penalties, if you lease a car for 48 months or whatever, with nothing down, and want to return it 6 months later. But this seems bad for business.

They rather have her pay 7 more $500 payments, then a $9000 lumpsum next Winter.
Instead of the same total now.
The people you refer to as "they" is the leasing/finance company with the debt. Their payout will be the end value plus whatever the remaining payments are PLUS additional mileage PLUS HST on the buyout PLUS HST on the remaining payments.

The "they" who quoted you is the dealer, who is not necessarily the leasing/finance company entity, but rather the retailer who is able to profit from reselling the car again. The dealer is not going to allow them to just pay out the bare minimum without attempting to gain some back end profit while that lease is still running.

That buyout that was quoted may be negotiable, but really the least costly option is just to pay the remainder of the lease out to the end, buy the vehicle out for the contracted buyout amount PLUS HST, and then sell it (or trade it in)..assuming market value is greater than the buyout total. NOTE - typically, if you deal with the originating dealer and trade it in there at that time on a new purchase you can often avoid having to pay that HST as well.
 

vancity_cowboy

hard riding member
Jan 27, 2008
5,491
8
38
on yer ignore list
If the lease contract has a penalty clause for early buyout then simply keep making the payments and buy it out for the residual value at the end of the lease. There is nothing to be gained by buying out early as you are effectively giving the lessor an interest free loan.

Another possible reason for the buyout being so high is that your friend may have exceeded the allowable kilometers under the lease, in which case she will have to pay a per kilometer penalty as stipulated in the lease agreement. There is also a charge for abnormal wear and tear and damage to the vehicle.
the allowable kilometres and abnormal wear and tear are only counted if you want to turn the vehicle in after the lease, but not if you want to buy it out
 

not2old

New member
Jul 30, 2006
574
6
0
Victoria
.. My buyout after 4 yrs on my F150 is about $16000 so I am going to have to ask is it worth it to keep ...
What's the truck worth is you sold it privately? I would think you should be able to recover your $16,000 if you bought it out. It should be at least a break even. With a $5,000 mileage penalty looming, I would be doing my best to avoid it.

(I'm not too familiar with leases, so am assuming you don't have to pay the mileage penalty if you buy it out at the end of the lease).
 

not2old

New member
Jul 30, 2006
574
6
0
Victoria
I need to purchase a car soon summer is coming and i just can't go without. Reading this thread I am better to buy a car rather than lease one in the long run. Am I right, any opinions on this. I do like to drive alot and take long trips.
My opinion is that unless you have a requirement to have a new car every 4 or 5 years, or it's for a business, then your cost of car ownership with a lease will be much higher.

I would suggest that you pick-up a copy of Consumer Reports used car guide (let me know if you would like to borrow mine) and then look for a 3 to 5 year old vehicle that has a high reliability rating. Have a trusted mechanic look at any vehicle that you plan to purchase. It will cost you $100 to $200, but it's well worth it. Take out a personal loan or line of credit, if needed (shop around for best rate) and then plan to keep the vehicle for 6 to 10 years.

If you maintain it properly with regular oil changes, and routine maintenance, don't drive it too hard, it should result in a very low cost of ownership.
 

TooLegit

New member
Apr 28, 2011
47
0
0
I need to purchase a car soon summer is coming and i just can't go without. Reading this thread I am better to buy a car rather than lease one in the long run. Am I right, any opinions on this. I do like to drive alot and take long trips.
It really depends on what your plans are for the future. Buying/Financing will be cheaper, but leasing has it's benefits as well. When you want to upgrade to a newer model, you simply return the leased vehicle and lease the vehicle you want. No hassle of trying to find a buyer and then refinancing another car. Also, if you're buying a car, outside of the warranty you are responsible for repairs and such. With a leased vehicle, it's not your car so the leasing company is responsible for repairs. Even minor repairs that a warranty won't cover, like new tires, oil changes, etc.
 

Karl Blues

New member
Oct 13, 2004
320
3
0
Vancouver
With a leased vehicle, it's not your car so the leasing company is responsible for repairs. Even minor repairs that a warranty won't cover, like new tires, oil changes, etc.
That is NOT correct. The leasing company is not responslble for repairs or maintenance unless it's part of the warranty. Some brands (EG BMW) cover routine maintenance as part of the purchase, but this is the same whether you buy it or lease it. A lease will allow for normal wear and tear, but if your tires wear out or repairs are needed, the conditions are the same whether you buy or lease. IE YOU PAY!
 

huggzy

Banned
May 30, 2010
616
2
18
I lease because I like to have a vehicle that is as "Green" as possible. Since the technology changes so quickly and the components (especially batteries) are short lived and expensive, it just makes sense for me to lease. Since I can lease through my employer, I benefit from the employer running a fleet of vehicles.

For someone who is unable to lease through their employer, leasing is a way of driving an more expensive vehicle than they could afford if they were buying the vehicle.

If you put a lot of miles on a vehicle, you are just about always better off buying the vehicle. Especially if you are the kind of person who is OK with driving an older vehicle.

One of the things to be aware of: A lot of vehicles that are being sold used are Lease Returns. You really don't want a vehicle that was formerly part of a fleet like Canada Post's, Courier Companies, Utilities, Rental Companies, etc. Those vehicles aren't assigned to a specific driver, but instead are in a vehicle pool. Since the vehicle is not "my car", they tend to be driven harder and receive less maintenance than if they were in a fleet where the vehicle is leased for the driver.

If I was buying a vehicle, I'd be more inclined to purchase a new vehicle, that way I would know exactly which crazy asshole had driven my car.
With all due respect, if you are attempting to be good for the environment and reduce your carbon footprint, one of the worst things on earth you should be doing is to roll through a new vehicle every few years. Do you think the vehicle just disappears and a new one magically reappears once you've rolled into a new one?

And no...leases are not a way to make expensive vehicles more "affordable" per se, because at the end of the day your overall cash outlay will be more with a lease than with a retail purchase. With a lease what you are doing is you are trading off lower payments in exchange for lower equity and fewer ownership rights.

In addition, lease vehicles out of typical fleet pools tend to be very well maintained because they are usually from large companies that have an interest in keeping the vehicles maintained because maintenance is tracked on fleet purchases by the auto companies. Just because a vehicle is a "lease return" does not make it a vehicle to be wary - the typical lease return is usually a very good used vehicle purchase option.

You are correct to be wary of courier and rental company vehicles - but they must be declared as a "rental vehicle" or "livery vehicle" etc. upon purchase - but these vehicles are far less common.

Buying a lease return that is one year old is one of the best value purchases that you can make. They have low miles (thus couldn't have been driven too hard by that rare "crazy asshole" if you were unfortunate to get one of these vehicles), they are well maintained, its easy to tell if a vehicle has been abused (it either appears virtually new or it doesnt), the largest depreciation has been incurred, it typically still has warranty, and the vehicle is near new.

My experience in the business suggests that buying a lease return brings infinitely better value to the purchaser than buying brand new.
 

huggzy

Banned
May 30, 2010
616
2
18
That is NOT correct. The leasing company is not responslble for repairs or maintenance unless it's part of the warranty. Some brands (EG BMW) cover routine maintenance as part of the purchase, but this is the same whether you buy it or lease it. A lease will allow for normal wear and tear, but if your tires wear out or repairs are needed, the conditions are the same whether you buy or lease. IE YOU PAY!
You are correct in the typical case. Be mindful that there are some leasing offers where the retailer/manufacturer may include maintenance programs as part of the offering, so he is correct as well - but it must be part of the offering or negotiated into the deal.
 

Karl Blues

New member
Oct 13, 2004
320
3
0
Vancouver
You are correct in the typical case. Be mindful that there are some leasing offers where the retailer/manufacturer may include maintenance programs as part of the offering, so he is correct as well - but it must be part of the offering or negotiated into the deal.
True enough (as I stated about BMW). But I dont know of any lease program that replaces tires and does repaires unless you buy special insurance coverage which is extra. The typical lease (which I believe was being discussed) does not cover these things. At the end of the lease, the vehicle is inspected and damages other than normal wear and tear are billed.
 

storm rider

Banned
Dec 6, 2008
2,543
7
0
Calgary
No quotes on this reply but there are a plethora that I wanted to include.

Straight up if you buy an ex lease vehicle be it a car or truck or SUV you are giving the dealership a double dip.....as soon as you drive a vehicle off the lot be it leased or owned there is the depreciation that happens as soon as you hit the street....leasing a car gets you the "CBP"....the Crippling Balloon Payment at the end of the lease and as for maintaining the vehicle...unless you are buying high end such as BMW you can bank on paying for ALL repairs to that car as it is logical....you drive it therefore you pay for it to be fixed for everything...oil changes/brake pads & shoes and associated other parts such as wheel cylinders and calipers as well as nasty stuff like a torque converter on an automatic transmission....you break it your paying for it....of course the dealership will take into account wear and tear on the interior of the car and charge you as much as they can get away with.

I dont agree with the sentiments about fleet vehicles and specifically courier vehicles.....I bought my truck new in 2007....I do an oil change evey month...when I felt the brake pads going in the front end I replaced them my self (2 bolts per caliper and a bit of elbow grease and the determination not to be ripped off by a stealership) and I also replaced the sway bar end links 2 months ago...took me 20 minutes with a bit of trial & error......thus far I have 200,000+ KM's on a 2007 and the engine is running strong with lots of pull.....a V-6 mated to an automatic is a gutter slut compared to an inline 4 with 5 on the floor and a high rev range.

The worst damage with ANY vehicle is the break in period....if some doorknob takes a brand new car off the lot and beats the shit out of it off the bat then the vehicle will be a shop victim for the rest of it's life.....if a vehicle is properly broken in it will last far longer.

I am on my 2nd brand new truck now....the last got clocked to 310,000 KM's in 5 years.....I am aiming for 500,000 KM's on the latest one...then I might buy a new one.

Leasing is for suckers *


*does not count if your lease is payed for by your employer as a perk/benefit.

SR
 
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huggzy

Banned
May 30, 2010
616
2
18
No quotes on this reply but there are a plethora that I wanted to include.

Straight up if you buy an ex lease vehicle be it a car or truck or SUV you are giving the dealership a double dip.....as soon as you drive a vehicle off the lot be it leased or owned there is the depreciation that happens as soon as you hit the street....leasing a car gets you the "CBP"....the Crippling Balloon Payment at the end of the lease and as for maintaining the vehicle...unless you are buying high end such as BMW you can bank on paying for ALL repairs to that car as it is logical....you drive it therefore you pay for it to be fixed for everything...oil changes/brake pads & shoes and associated other parts such as wheel cylinders and calipers as well as nasty stuff like a torque converter on an automatic transmission....you break it your paying for it....of course the dealership will take into account wear and tear on the interior of the car and charge you as much as they can get away with.

I dont agree with the sentiments about fleet vehicles and specifically courier vehicles.....I bought my truck new in 2007....I do an oil change evey month...when I felt the brake pads going in the front end I replaced them my self (2 bolts per caliper and a bit of elbow grease and the determination not to be ripped off by a stealership) and I also replaced the sway bar end links 2 months ago...took me 20 minutes with a bit of trial & error......thus far I have 200,000+ KM's on a 2002 and the engine is running strong with lots of pull.....a V-6 mated to an automatic is a gutter slut compared to an inline 4 with 5 on the floor and a high rev range.

The worst damage with ANY vehicle is the break in period....if some doorknob takes a brand new car off the lot and beats the shit out of it off the bat then the vehicle will be a shop victim for the rest of it's life.....if a vehicle is properly broken in it will last far longer.

I am on my 2nd brand new truck now....the last got clocked to 310,000 KM's in 5 years.....I am aiming for 500,000 KM's on the latest one...then I might buy a new one.

Leasing is for suckers *


*does not count if your lease is payed for by your employer as a perk/benefit.

SR
I think you meant to say:

"Straight up if you LEASE A NEW VEHICLE be it a car or truck or SUV you are giving the dealership a double dip....."
 

storm rider

Banned
Dec 6, 2008
2,543
7
0
Calgary
I think you meant to say:

"Straight up if you LEASE A NEW VEHICLE be it a car or truck or SUV you are giving the dealership a double dip....."
YUP....that was my sentiment.....also if you buy a used lease return you are getting raped as well though.

Buy new and take care of it....also buy smart and vote with your wallet....far cheaper to buy a vehicle from the USA.

SR
 

huggzy

Banned
May 30, 2010
616
2
18
YUP....that was my sentiment.....also if you buy a used lease return you are getting raped as well though.

Buy new and take care of it....also buy smart and vote with your wallet....far cheaper to buy a vehicle from the USA.

SR
You cannot be so wrong in your sentiments when you say you're getting raped in buying a used lease return. You have no idea about the business if you say that.

1 year lease returns are the absolute best buy in the industry (assuming you know how not to get raped). Buying a 1 year lease return from the states, however, is the best of the best deals there are...I can agree with you on that.
 
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