Cock Throppled;1144211 It's another sell job on men and women that gullible said:Yes you are absolutely correct. Every man who dislikes hairy bush is gullible, insecure, sad and pathetic and only dislikes bush because "porn" taught him to. You sir are abso-fucking-lutely the most insightful poster in the history of PERB.
The pornification of pubic hair
- Thread starter Rod the bod
- Start date
Great reply after your demeaning post.Yes you are absolutely correct. Every man who dislikes hairy bush is gullible, insecure, sad and pathetic and only dislikes bush because "porn" taught him to. You sir are abso-fucking-lutely the most insightful poster in the history of PERB.
For the record I don't believe that all mean are like that who like shaved pubes - just believe it of the guys who think any pubic hair is gross and dirty and have a phobia like pubic hair is some sort of disease. Personally, I enjoy a shaved kitty, but have no problem with a patch or landing strip. Totally bare looks odd on an adult woman, though.
News flash - not all bodies are perfect and hairless. You're in for a rude awakening when you enter the real world and realize women in porn are not realistic depictions of women.
Last edited:
Gosh I can't wait to grow up and have sex with a real woman. What's it like??? LMAO.
It's different from sex with escorts. They don't always shave their pussies because they don't have to! They can get sex without paying for it. LMAO!
Sure, not every vajayjay will be shaved, just like every tummy will not be flat, every ass will not be tight, every boobies will not be DDD, etc etc. We get it, real life is not like the movies, fashion magazines, and porn. So what's your point? Are you saying we should stop wanting things just because they are not "natural"? News flash buddy, make-up ain't natural, perfume ain't natural, soap ain't natural, etc etc. Do mean to tell me that any man who doesn't prefer a woman who never bathes and always stinks is a freak? Or are you just going on what the "majority" of women do, i.e. the majority of women don't shave/wax/laser their entire pubic area, therefore you're sick if you like that? In which case you are essentially advocating some sort of moralistic right or wrong based on the sheer number of people who do or don't do an activity. Is anal sex wrong then? What about group sex with willing partners? If those activities are engaged by less than a majority of people, by your count they are sick fools who will soon realize that the majority of women don't do that. Maybe I've missed your point, easy to do since you throw out inflaming comments ("you're in for a rude awakening") without really making clear what your point is, so in absence of one we are forced to make guesses at what it is you are really trying to say.
I personally don't buy the whole blame-it-on-porn argument. And to say that the reason a man may prefer bare can only be that he's looking at and prefers bare is because he likes/wants or it reminds him of prepubescent girl is absurd. If that were true, there would not be an pedophiles because all they'd have to do is get their (adult) wives/gf/lovers to shave their kitties But unfortunately, I don't think that would fool a pedophile into thinking he's shagging a young girl. When a women lifts her arms and exposes her hairless arm pits, does it remind you of a prepubescent girl?
~ : ~ : ~ : ~ : ~ : ~ : ~ : ~ : ~ : ~
If all women were to suddenly refuse to shave their underarm hair so that they all had long, unruly hair, complete with bits of deodorant and maybe even a few beads of sweat or full on drenched hair to display on nice a nice hot day.. If you were asked to compare the two, what is most likely to go through your mind? We'll all agree that freshly out of the shower, assuming both have washed thoroughly, we would know hairy or shaved is just as clean. But we're only freshly out of the shower for an hour or two of the day, so the remaining time.. so we'll assume that generally the lack of hair to trap anything or to make the area warmer, is likely to leave the area fresher longer. Right? It doesn't mean it's necessarily true but that's what we assume.
I think we also associate bare with clean and bush with not as clean simply because we assume that someone who has put time and effort into and cares about grooming would also do the same with their hygiene. Of course, that may not be true but we just automatically generally assume that's the case. A full bush isn't any dirtier than a bare kitty BUT the presence of hair does trap moisture and, feels hotter and is more likely to trap - not to mention that's the area involved when we relieve ourselves. So it's only logical that we, as a culture obsessed with cleanliness and terrified of germs or smells that don't come from a bottle, cream or spray, might make that association. It doesn't mean it's true..as has already been mentioned. But that's still how our brains think nonetheless.
~ : ~ : ~ : ~ : ~ : ~ : ~ : ~ : ~ : ~
Of course, it's a bit hard to know what anyone is referring to in their arguments because there aren't just two options: completely bald vs naturally bushy and untouched...there are many variations in between. I tend to see it as grooming vs no grooming. The rest is just personal style..lol you know, kind of like the hair on our head: short, medium or long hair, curly or straight, pooffy or flat, bangs or no bangs...that sort of thing. We all have our preferences and they're influenced by the current trends and what's in style, etc.
The idea is that for everything else, we spend more time and give more importance to grooming and aesthetic details than might have been the case in the past. And this tendency just means that trends, fads or fashions are going to influence what might be the current preference. I don't think it's all because of porn per say. But logically... where else would bush styles and trends originate from? Not too many other people bearing their private parts at board meetings, in style magazines, movies or on catwalks. If the author really wants full bush to be in, she should just bear the bush proudly for all to see and make sure it's all over the internet...the kids'll eat it up and the bush might make its comeback. haha It's not any worse than those damn skinny pants, you know...so it could work.
But right now, all she's doing is complaining and attacking people's preferences and choices with arguments that don't even hold up. I also think that there are some women who, like the author of that article, seem to be just really pissed at feeling like they're now expected to care about regular grooming of this area and they resent that. In truth, no one's forcing anyone to go bare. I think there's a bit of knee jerk reaction to becoming aware that grooming to various degrees is more or less the norm amongst women so they feel some pressure from this expectation that is new to them, to include their kitties the areas requiring regular grooming. So they lash out with some non-sense about who and what they perceive to be to blame for this.
~ : ~ : ~ : ~ : ~ : ~ : ~ : ~ : ~ : ~
And of course, what those arguments fail to consider is that while it may not be quite as frequent yet, there are many men who also spend time grooming their genital area in their own preferred style. Straight men, some more than others, tend to spend more time and make more effort grooming in general than was the case in the past. A friend of mine who did waxing in Montreal, had lots of male clients. They got anything done from back and chest to balls and bunghole. I think the trend might just have started a bit later than it has for women and be progressing slower..that's all. Just think of all the men who now get laser treatments to remove unwanted body hair. They're not doing it because they want to look prepubescent or because women want them to - or even see them that way at all! - they're doing it because they are unhappy with it, probably because as a whole, our society has become obsessed with hair, just like it has become obsessed with an ideal weight/body type/boob size etc...
The hair issue is no different than that and I think the arguments and claims that it is different and part of some conspiracy to make us all porn stars is ludicrous. It only shows people's own biases and porn serves as an easy target. And that's what I think. It's 2011, people appreciate lovers who groom whether it's bare, trimmed or a little of both (shave the lips but keep hair above) - that's all grooming to me. If you don't like short hair, don't get you hair cut short but if I do, it doesn't mean you have to and neither does it mean I want to look like a boy or that a man who likes it only feels that way because he's attracted to boys. The bare kitty = prepubescent girl argument makes as little sense as their short hair = boy does.
(Oh dear, that was another long post. Oh well.... sorry.
)
Last edited:
You guys are missing the point, it isnt that men are attracted to prepubescent girls, rather that (for women anyway) the ideal of beauty is the emphasis of youth. And things like having little or no body hair is suggestive of youth which is why people do it.
And as for people wanting to look like porn stars, I suspect that it was happening anyway in the cool circles and porn stars were trying to look like them rather than the other way around. Porn was just reflected what was happening anyway. String bikinis (which started in the mid 70s) is a far more likely driving force for starting the trend than porn. When you are wearing a micro bikini you can't have hair sticking out, so it had to go.
And as for people wanting to look like porn stars, I suspect that it was happening anyway in the cool circles and porn stars were trying to look like them rather than the other way around. Porn was just reflected what was happening anyway. String bikinis (which started in the mid 70s) is a far more likely driving force for starting the trend than porn. When you are wearing a micro bikini you can't have hair sticking out, so it had to go.
Thanks all for participating in this thread. It has been interesting. I'm so glad there is nowhere in the world that male foreskins are regarded by the dominant social strata as unclean - erm!!!!
!!!!Yah I think trimmed short is the best to be honest. Bare does feel nice but it doesn't last very long until it feels like a cactus (I like that example earlier on this thread lol). I don't know if this is just me having sensitive skin, which I do, but I can't shave every single day - my skin cannot handle that. I have no choice but to give it a rest before shaving again. That makes it really tricky I always assumed that bare was preferable for most pooners (with the exception of a couple of times when I've had a specific request not to shave it bare) so to be honest, I've always felt like that was the expectation. But I hate, hate, hate dealing with the prickly phase and really dread it.
I like the landing strip look but how the hell do you get it symmetrical and even?! I can't for the life of me pull it off! Maybe I'm too much of a perfectionist? I don't know....but every attempt I've made had always resulted in me getting annoyed that it seems asymmetrical and then just getting fed up and just shaving it all off. haha No one else seems to have that issue so I feel very incompetent!...or just too anal? Don't know...)
Before I moved to Vancouver, I had mainly only been waxing for a few years because I believed shaving just made things worst. Once in a while I'd go bare but most of the time I would trim. But when I switched to shaving and stopped waxing, I really realized how much worst waxing was for ingrown hairs! I constantly had to deal with those when waxing (and yes, they do not look nice!) but shaving never gives me ingrowns. Ya can't win, it seems..lol If I didn't feel like pooners prefer bare, I probably would just do it occasionally and only trim the rest of the time.
I think trimming is nice because it still feels neat, doesn't have that cactus phase, never any razor burn or bumps and it's always that way. Whenever a guy mentions wanting to shave, I always suggest trimming instead. Sure it might be nice and soft when you've just shaved but it doesn't take long until it's like sand paper and not to mention ITCHY as hell.. which doesn't feel nice! haha Trimmed short doesn't get as hot and sweaty as full bush, no ingrown hair, eliminates long pubes stuck in the throat (oh god that's awful) plus you don't get the itchy phase either.
huh? Male foreskins?
I don't get it....am I missing something?
What does male foreskin have to do with hair and shaving?
I like the landing strip look but how the hell do you get it symmetrical and even?! I can't for the life of me pull it off! Maybe I'm too much of a perfectionist? I don't know....but every attempt I've made had always resulted in me getting annoyed that it seems asymmetrical and then just getting fed up and just shaving it all off. haha No one else seems to have that issue so I feel very incompetent!...or just too anal? Don't know...)
Before I moved to Vancouver, I had mainly only been waxing for a few years because I believed shaving just made things worst. Once in a while I'd go bare but most of the time I would trim. But when I switched to shaving and stopped waxing, I really realized how much worst waxing was for ingrown hairs! I constantly had to deal with those when waxing (and yes, they do not look nice!) but shaving never gives me ingrowns. Ya can't win, it seems..lol If I didn't feel like pooners prefer bare, I probably would just do it occasionally and only trim the rest of the time.
I think trimming is nice because it still feels neat, doesn't have that cactus phase, never any razor burn or bumps and it's always that way. Whenever a guy mentions wanting to shave, I always suggest trimming instead. Sure it might be nice and soft when you've just shaved but it doesn't take long until it's like sand paper and not to mention ITCHY as hell.. which doesn't feel nice! haha Trimmed short doesn't get as hot and sweaty as full bush, no ingrown hair, eliminates long pubes stuck in the throat (oh god that's awful) plus you don't get the itchy phase either.
Thanks all for participating in this thread. It has been interesting. I'm so glad there is nowhere in the world that male foreskins are regarded by the dominant social strata as unclean - erm
huh? Male foreskins?
I don't get it....am I missing something?
What does male foreskin have to do with hair and shaving?
Sorry - I've gone a couple of steps at a time and it isn't clear. There obviously ARE societies that insist that male foreskins are unclean and have to be removed - they are taboo. This pressure is applied to parents to have their baby boys circumcised. But let's imagine this social pressure was being heavily enforced by women as in 'Don't imagine you're gong anywhere near my lovely pussy with that disgusting foreskin' - and this was a LOT of women then I'm asking the dogmatists how they would feel being made to have a circumcision to get laid. And I'm not circumcised and so I'm pleased that has never been said to me.
.Sorry - I've gone a couple of steps at a time and it isn't clear. There obviously ARE societies that insist that male foreskins are unclean and have to be removed - they are taboo. This pressure is applied to parents to have their baby boys circumcised. But let's imagine this social pressure was being heavily enforced by women as in 'Don't imagine you're gong anywhere near my lovely pussy with that disgusting foreskin' - and this was a LOT of women then I'm asking the dogmatists how they would feel being made to have a circumcision to get laid. And I'm not circumcised and so I'm pleased that has never been said to me
First of all, high five to Miss Bijou for taking the time with her excellent posts above. While they do align with my feeling on the issue (though obviously more from the female POV about it all) I would honestly have to tip my hat to her even if I was on the other side of the issue, so well done.
To Rod the Bod above, I really struggle to comprehend the overall premise of your argument about foreskins and social norms driven by hood-fearing women. Are you hoping to argue your point about society "forcing" women to shave their pubes by equating it to some male-equivalent i.e. circumcision?? If so, then all I can say is W-O-W, you are really grasping at straws my friend. You take a fairly shakey premise at the outset (that there are societies that insist male foreskins are taboo - really? which ones other than Jewish culture/Israeli society? and hopefully you can answer this without resorting to finding some small indigenous tribes in the backwaters of some third world country) and then throw in two more convenient hypotheticals, namely that this pressure is applied predominantly by one gender (in this case women) and for some presumably shallow and ludicrous reason ("stay away from my lovely pussy with that disgusting foreskin"). The way you stack your own analogy to serve your ends is definitely amusing, I'll give you that. But at the end of the day, "Society" doesn't force anything on anyone. Yes there are pressures and yes some choose to succumb to those pressures while others will choose to flout these pressures and conventions. Shave if you want, don't shave if you don't want. If some people find muff hair gross, who are you or I to judge them or their tastes? There are people who find public bathrooms gross, sneezing in public gross, breast feeding gross, etc etc. Maybe they aren't factually correct in their aversion, but so what? Do you think we should shame them for their foibles and phobias? Or maybe just let them go about their business in their own way knowing that unless they are running around shearing women at gunpoint, it is really just a harmless and largely meaningless preference.
I'm only asking the dogmatists. As I've said I don't care how a woman presents herself to me - I'm always just so pleased it's happening at all. Also you're taking my last point much too seriously. My point is - like the point of the original author of the article in the UK paper that there is an element of social conditioning to an expectation that women should be shaved. I have been amazed that men can state their preferences so strongly as to suggest that hair equates with dirt (and some who've stated that bare equates with 'unnatural', weird etc ) - dogmatists both. Preference is one thing but once the language starts to go to 'dirty' etc then you are moving into taboo/religion/phobia/control and having lived most my life without having encountered a shaved pussy I found it fascinating that this change in habits - which in Europe - as the author points out is so very recent - should be loaded with such extreme feelings. As I said I find it fascinating that something so recent in Europe should have reached taboo/social control levels so quickly - within my lifetime.
People have been shaving their body hair for millennia and for different reasons. And people have been circumcising males and females for millennia. You hear the same 'dirty' and 'unclean' statements in that context as well. My point was that the pressure to circumcise men is applied to parents in Arab and Jewish and many African societies - a lot more than just Jewish and as Laurel Love posted some time ago used to be done a LOT across North America and Europe until around about the middle of the 20th century. This was so much so that she said she'd had trouble finding men over a certain age who weren't circumcised - which again I found amazing.
I then extended this quite light heartedly to ask how it would be if the pressure to get circumcised was brought to bear on men by women and I created a scenario in which women collectively declared that foreskins were 'unclean/dirty' and how that would pressure men to get circumcised in order to get laid.
Like I said I'm not really taking any of this very seriously as you'll see if you read all my posts on the subject. Thanks for your engagement.
People have been shaving their body hair for millennia and for different reasons. And people have been circumcising males and females for millennia. You hear the same 'dirty' and 'unclean' statements in that context as well. My point was that the pressure to circumcise men is applied to parents in Arab and Jewish and many African societies - a lot more than just Jewish and as Laurel Love posted some time ago used to be done a LOT across North America and Europe until around about the middle of the 20th century. This was so much so that she said she'd had trouble finding men over a certain age who weren't circumcised - which again I found amazing.
I then extended this quite light heartedly to ask how it would be if the pressure to get circumcised was brought to bear on men by women and I created a scenario in which women collectively declared that foreskins were 'unclean/dirty' and how that would pressure men to get circumcised in order to get laid.
Like I said I'm not really taking any of this very seriously as you'll see if you read all my posts on the subject. Thanks for your engagement.
Fair enough and I should apologize for the possibly over-aggressive tone of my last post. I have no dog in this fight, as I am not dogmatic on this topic either way tbh. I thought I saw where you were trying to go with your circumcision analogy and felt (still do) that - while perhaps interesting - is not a proper or fair analogy. Pubic hair removal does not nearly have the level of societal meaning or taboo that circumcision has in these societies, nor is it ritualistically performed on non-consenting infants and young children - it is generally a decision made by an adult individual - perhaps with societal 'pressure', perhaps based on personal comfort - and is in most cases non-permanent and not even a true case of body modification.
Anyway I will agree this has been an interesting topic however you will probably have to find someone who is truly dogmatic about hair=dirty in order to further this discussion, since I will maintain that for most men, including those on this board who should probably not be confused with being 'typical' of the male viewpoint (we are the ones going out and paying for sex after all), do not hold the dogmatic views on this topic that you are looking for.
Cheers
I have no problem with hair...
http://www.erohtica.com/galleries/met-art/malena-met-art/images/malena-met-art-06.jpg
http://hosted.met-art.com/met-art_TMU_21_451//full/met-art_TMU_21_9.jpg
http://www.erohtica.com/galleries/met-art/malena-met-art/images/malena-met-art-06.jpg
http://hosted.met-art.com/met-art_TMU_21_451//full/met-art_TMU_21_9.jpg
Last edited:
But I don't also like bald because I'm into prepubescent girls...
http://hosted.met-art.com/met-art_err_225_254//full/met-art_err_225_5.jpg
http://hosted.met-art.com/met-art_err_225_254//full/met-art_err_225_5.jpg
aznboi9 Shame about the comment on the second picture because they are both really lovely pics. Come on guys if you uncovered the girl with pubes would ANY of you say 'No'???? How would that be possible??? What part of that could conceivably be called dirty???? And for the hair freaks the second pic - again I make the same point.
Vancity thanks. I think I raised the male circumcision point because of the language and because these pressures are insidious and damaging to people and yet are fundamental to the way our human societies work. In societies where they have female circumcision the attitude is 'she should just suck it up. It's the same for everyone - what's her problem - she'll thank me when she's grown up and understands better' And this is from grandma!!!
Bijou I liked your posts as well.
To conclude I am saying that what appear to be casual and unimportant issues can take on much more serious connotations and one of the ways to recognise that is in the language of the protagonists.
Thanks everyone - it's been fun.
Vancity thanks. I think I raised the male circumcision point because of the language and because these pressures are insidious and damaging to people and yet are fundamental to the way our human societies work. In societies where they have female circumcision the attitude is 'she should just suck it up. It's the same for everyone - what's her problem - she'll thank me when she's grown up and understands better' And this is from grandma!!!
Bijou I liked your posts as well.
To conclude I am saying that what appear to be casual and unimportant issues can take on much more serious connotations and one of the ways to recognise that is in the language of the protagonists.
Thanks everyone - it's been fun.
Last edited:
