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Our Rape Culture: Judge's (disgusting) sex-assault comments spark rally

Miss*Bijou

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Nov 9, 2006
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Last month it was a police officer's comment, this week it's a judge.

I can't even believe a judge would say this kind of disgusting crap in 2011. Unbelievable. He better resign, a man who makes comments like that has no place being a judge in Canada. What a douchebag!!!

Don't these people get trained or educated on important issues they're bound to deal with in their line of work? wtf??!!




Judge's sex-assault comments spark rally


About 100 people rallied at the Manitoba Law Courts building in Winnipeg on Friday, expressing anger about comments made by a judge during a sexual assault sentencing.

Carrying placards with statements such as, "No such thing as implied consent," the protesters also stormed inside the building chanting and calling for the resignation of Justice Robert Dewar. They also called for Dewar to come down and speak to them before being escorted out by security.


---


Dewar said "sex was in the air" when he spared a man jail time by handing him a two-year conditional sentence last week instead and allowed him to remain free in the community.


During the sentencing, Dewar also commented on the way the woman was dressed and her actions the night she was forced to have sex by a man in the woods along a dark highway outside Thompson, Man., in 2006.


The man and a friend met the woman, who is now 25, and her girlfriend earlier that night outside a bar under what Dewar called "inviting circumstances." The judge pointed out the victim and her friend were dressed in tube tops, no bras, and high heels and noted they were wearing plenty of makeup.

Dewar called the man a "clumsy Don Juan" who may have misunderstood what the victim wanted.


The victim, who spoke to CBC News on Friday, did not attend the rally but was aware of it and grateful to those who took part. She said she remains traumatized from the sexual assault and is afraid to go places. In his decision, Justice Robert Dewar said the man who was convicted of sexual assault may have misunderstood what the victim wanted.


"I feel like I'm a prisoner in my own home and I can't trust anyone," she said, adding she is extremely upset with Dewar's comments.

"I don't think what he said was right. We were young and we were dressed classy. For him to say that the way we looked was basically asking for it is wrong and makes me angry."


The woman said she went into the bushes off the road to urinate and the man followed her in.

"I wanted out of there and he wouldn't stop," she said about the attack, which left her covered in bruises.

"I had to do what I had to do to survive because I was out there alone. I wanted to get away."


She agrees with protesters who called for Dewar's resignation, saying, "I think he should not judge again."

Then she added, "I think all rapists should be treated like a murderer because they take a part of your life."



Comments will discourage victims

Lorraine Parrington, who co-ordinates the sexual assault crisis program at Klinic, a community health centre in Winnipeg, said Dewar's remarks show there needs to be more education about how women should be treated in sexual assault cases.

Fewer than 10 per cent of sexual assault cases are actually reported and Parrington worries Dewar's comments will discourage future victims from coming forward.

"I'd like to say I was shocked. Unfortunately, I'm not after doing this work for lots of years," she said. "But I was appalled. I was outraged. I was disheartened."


Men have to learn women can change their minds, and no, at any point in an encounter, means no, she said.

"People have a right to change their mind. If I decide that I want to be engaged in certain sexual behaviour with somebody I can do that and I'm allowed to say, 'Stop, I don't want to do it any more.' That needs to be respected."





Rape Culture


No excuse for this, period.
(btw - great comments if you follow the above link)


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HankQuinlan

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It would be better to dump that judge in a prison -- in a cell with some violent ass-raping convicts. After all, why would he be there - dressed in an attractive prison uniform - if he didn't want to be raped?
 

Miss*Bijou

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Btw - The article quoted on that blog post was a different than the one I posted. It contains more details about the judge's comments, you can read it here and this is the post in question:










Some of the comments I really liked were these ones:



"Protection of society is not advanced one iota by putting Mr. Rhodes in jail."


This is only true if women don't count as society.


You can probably go to bars if you really really want to. But you must wear sweats, flip-flops, and no makeup, and under no circumstances should you actually *talk* to anyone. Cause you never know what they'll interpret as "flirting".

/conservalogic


Ah. Mr. Rhodes isn't a typical rapist. I see. What a (metric) fuckton of mysogifail. Let's look at this in another context to see just how fucking stupid it is, shant we?

A convicted bank robber will not go to jail because a Manitoba judge says the bank sent signals that "money was in the vault" through its' suggestive decoration and banklike conduct on the night of the robbery.

Queen's Bench Justice Robert Dewar called [convicted bank robber Kenneth] Rhodes a "clumsy Jesse James" who may have misunderstood what the bank wanted when he forced robbery along a darkened highway outside Thompson in 2006.

Rhodes and a friend met the bank and its' staff earlier that night in the bank under what the judge called "inviting circumstances." Dewar specifically noted the bank was full of fucking money and whatnot, so who wouldn't rob it?

Fuck off, your 'Honor'.


Still can't believe this.. very depressing.


Anyway, it seems there's a facebook page/petition about this judge's comments here.
 

CJ Tylers

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Jan 3, 2003
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Hey, it's the conservative mindset... it's hard to fight bigotry and sexism. Apparently, if a woman doesn't timidly step back and stay in her "place", then she deserves whatever happens. Thanks mr Harper! You make gooooood cookies!

:|

I kid, of course. I'm sure the judge has plenty of good reasons why a convicted rapist should be given a stern lecture instead of jail time. We know prisons don't work as far as prisoner reform goes... but at least the public would be safe for a while. I can just imagine all of Canada's rapists watching this case ferverently, their CC's in hand as they browse for a westjet or air canada flight to Manitoba.
 

chilli

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Our "Rape Culture"?

Ok, I have to say I agree with how what this judge did was completely wrong.

But our "rape culture"?

Are you freakin serious? I've never met anyone in my "culture" who thought rape was ok. Not sure what "culture" you're living in.
 

Mr.Boggo

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That sucks. Hopefully they appeal and the judge resigns (and most likely gets a decent parting bonus). Whatever the case, the damage has been done. All this talk of putting the judge in jail/vigilante justice is useless, it's just talk from the powerless. The system isn't in place to protect the innocents, it's in place to see which lawyer can outsmart the other lawyer. I'm sure politicians will come out spouting their bullshit to win votes.

I've long ago given up getting worked up about injustices...although, if we ever decide to storm the courts and fuck that shit up, let me know cause that's real activism, not this walking around with posters bullshit.
 

Miss*Bijou

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Our "Rape Culture"?

Ok, I have to say I agree with how what this judge did was completely wrong.

But our "rape culture"?

Are you freakin serious? I've never met anyone in my "culture" who thought rape was ok. Not sure what "culture" you're living in.




Our rape culture


Yes, I'm serious. I didn't make it up. Did you bother to read what it describes? I don't think you did. If you don't see it, well that's good for you. I can't say I agree. Are you going to say that sexism and misogyny aren't the core principles the society you live in is constructed around? If so... again, that's good for you but just because you don't recognize it, it doesn't mean it isn't there. Perhaps you've simply not had any need to consider it or see it from a perspective other than your own. If you're not necessarily affected directly by something, it's easy to miss it. If it's not so obvious but often really subtle, it's easy to not see it.


Our rape culture

Especially if sexism and misogyny being entrenched in most aspects of our daily life would render the concerns for those most affected unimportant. It would make the existence of these beliefs invisible and just "normal" and just the way things are. But if no one had a stake and nothing to gain from maintaining the status quo and to lose from changing our society's core principles, then attempts to denounce or change these things would not be met with any resistance, just as defensive attitudes would not be necessary.

Our rape culture

I don't expect you to agree, that's fine. But what I'm trying to say is that it isn't inconceivable that "your" culture or society appear very different from "mine" because we're both affected in very different ways and likely to perceive the way it works in equally different ways. That's the whole idea.

And the idea of rape culture isn't crazy or totally impossible to imagine.




http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/article/866186--are-mass-media-creating-a-culture-of-rape




...


But in North America, where social conservatives hold more sway, it’s women who are told not to drink, not to go out at night and to dress to avoid rape, rather than men being reminded of their responsibility not to commit rape.

“I do think the conservative agenda has a lot to do with this,’’ says Lakeman. “We don’t see public officials standing up for women. We don’t see the denunciation of ordinary violence against women. We don’t see men being held to account in any way that speaks to the whole society’s values.’’

“In Stephen Harper’s Canada, women’s groups which could have provided a voice on these issues have been weakened or eliminated,’’ says Gotell, referring to the cuts in government funding to some women’s groups. “That’s another explanation for the escalation of rape culture.’’

The experts agree these are not simple issues.

“I don’t see the explosion in rape; these things have always been going on,’’ says Guelph University professor Mavis Morton, who teaches criminology. “But there really has been an explosion in the media and the messages. Social media are another venue now where we see messages in support of gender inequality and that stereotype concepts of masculinity and femininity.

“As a sociologist, I have to say that we are not asking the larger questions about what is reinforcing this entitlement: How many more times do women have to be told to be afraid, to be very afraid, and change the way they live their lives?’’
 

Fractals

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Psychologists attribute this fallacious tendency of some people to blame the victim to what is called as the "just world" belief.

Apparently, some people have the need to believe that the world is just and that bad things happen only to bad people. It brings comfort to these people to think that if nothing bad (i.e. rape or robbery) is happening to them then they must be good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_phenomenon
 

Fractals

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... It's what leaders use to get people to perform atrocities on people. The first step is to make the person part of a group, the second step is to make all other groups "inferior".
You may be referring to the classic Milgram "obedience studies" which is theoretically different from jwb.

It's not the same as "(s)he deserves it" That seems to be based on the demonizing of an activity or just simple jealousy of a lifestyle. So, an SP "deserves" whatever happens to her or a John "deserves" whatever happens to him. The jealousy component is when people celebrate a politician or well known person coming to harm. So, it wouldn't matter if Paris Hilton was raped by a car jacker - she "deserves" it because she's wealthy and well known, plus the media has demonized her.
JWB is the concept many psychologists would invoke to explain the tendency to blame the victim. It's a phenomenon that has been studied for over 40 years now.

Here is a quote from a more recent review of the extant literature on the subject.

"A motorist runs over a picketer—a socially concerned mother
and respected local citizen— demonstrating on behalf of local port
workers: Angry observers demand harsh punishment for the driver
(e.g., “Sentence for Lyttleton,” 2001). A beloved public figure is
the victim of a fatal car accident that occurs while her car is being
chased by the paparazzi: The public expresses outrage and demands
new laws to curtail the ability of the press to invade a
person’s private life (see “Privacy law,” 1997; Zoglin, 1997). A
woman is raped by a stranger who sneaks into her apartment while
she takes out the garbage: Her emotional account of the anniversary
of her victimization (Raine, 1994) draws compassionate and
supportive letters from men and women around the country (e.g.,
Copleman, 1994; Metz, 1994; Raine, 1998).
The victims of the terrible outcomes described above were seen
by many who were exposed to the event as undeserving of their
fates and, thus, as victims of injustice. The perceived unfairness of
the situation was likely a primary motivator for observers’ ensuing
anger and compassion. However, other reactions to these events
were far less sympathetic toward the victims. For example, the
judge at the original trial over the picket line tragedy was criticized
for arguing that the picketer was to blame for her fate because she
was blocking traffic and violating the driver’s “Freedom of movement
on the roads . . . [, which is] a fundamental right” (“Sentence
for Lyttleton,” 2001, p. 8; see also Burrows, 2000; “Murder on the
Picket Line,” n.d.). The public figure mentioned above was denigrated
for being a mentally unstable individual who refused to let
the paparazzi do their job (Lacayo, 1997; Morrison, 1997; Reney,
1997). The rape victim described how several people (even one
close friend) suggested that she was partly to blame (Raine, 1998),
in one case because of her “‘negative attitude’ that might have
‘attracted’ more ‘negativity’” (p. 91); in another, by choosing to
live in that particular neighborhood."
from:
http://www.brocku.ca/psychology/people/Hafer_Begue_05.pdf
 

Jethro Bodine

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Beverly Hills. In the Kitchen eatin' vittles.
As absolutely fucking unbelievable as this judge's comments were, this case is just another in a long line of examples of how out of touch our judiciary often is.
Because Judges in this country are politcal appointees, many of them, as we've seen in this case, are very poorly qualified for the job they are entrusted with. As well, their decisions are often not challenged and we (society) allow them to run their courtroom like it's their own little fiefdom. Nobody dare question the big important judge. I've been in court a few times on divorce or debt collection issues and it is ridiculous how the judges will often talk to or treat people. Then they go home to their big house in some exclusive gated community and have absolutely no freakin' idea of what is really going on in the outside world.
That's why we see these type of ridiculous decisions or sentences all the time.
 

Unpossible

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We have a current real world example of that phenomena:

Julian Assange is accused of rape in two separate incidents. Moreover, he freely admits that he paid one of the women for sex - in Sweden - where it's illegal to be a John. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Sweden

Under Swedish Law, Julian Assange can only have charges laid against him after a magistrate has questioned him. The intent of that particular portion of Swedish Law is to not spend criminal court time on unfounded charges. Basically, by resisting having a magistrate interview him, Julian Assange is admitting that the magistrate would bind him over for trial on the rape charges.

Yet, a number of people who normally would be leading the parade against a rapist are financially and publicly supporting Julian Assange and insisting that he shouldn't be sent to Sweden until charges are laid. Why? Because these people think that Julian Assange is doing important work with wikileaks and that the importance of that work outweighs the rights of the two rape victims.
In the Assange case I thought it was called "sex by surprise" or something because the condom broke? I haven't really followed it though.
 

Miss*Bijou

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Moreover, he freely admits that he paid one of the women for sex - in Sweden - where it's illegal to be a John.

I wasn't aware he'd paid one of the women...can't find anything about this online either. Where did you read that? I've never heard of this before...?
 

FunSugarDaddy

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I remember followed this Bob Crane story on A&E and I was fairly shocked, because when the murder first happened they had a piece of his brain on the inside of his car but DNA testing didn't exist at the time, later they tested it and confirmed it was his DNA and they long knew who the murderer was, which was a wannabe who hung around Crane, took his leftover ladies and spend his money. He had told a couple of people that he was going to end this relationship and hence the murder. And it was a cowardly act at that, as he hit Crane with a photography stand, while Crane was sleeping.

For anyone who never heard of Bob Crane he was a ladies man in the extreme. And obviously the jury didn't appreciate Hogan's Hero's as much as I did..

In any event, they can't try the suspect again, and so he literally got away with murder, as did OJ Simpson.

But an underlying point, is as Al said, once morality starts playing a fact in what is and isn't a crime, it's a very slippery slope towards injustice.

We, as a society, have an "(s)he got themselves into it" attitude towards people who are harmed whilst engaged in activities that are illegal or morally questionable.

It's not just ignoring the rape of women when they dress sexy or attend a skanky party. The same attitude applies when men get themselves in trouble as a result of some activities.

Just as the rape of a SP is seldom vigorously investigated, the robbery of a John is seldom vigorously investigated.

A&E had a recent show on the phenomena.

Would it surprise you to know that few would feel sorry for Paris Hilton or Lindsay Lohan or even believe that they were raped if they complained of rape? Most of the media and public would think that "they had it coming".

It applies to men. Bob Crane (star of Hogan's Heroes) was murdered in 1978. The detective who re-investigated the case in 1990 says "Bob Crane's pornographic activities made him less valuable to the Jury". Despite the detective providing almost certain evidence of who the killer of Bob Crane was, the jury didn't have any sympathy for the victim.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Crane
 

Miss*Bijou

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But I thought the issue was about a broken condom? (or a lack of condom) Now I'm confused. lol


Just a comment unrelated to Assange..

I'm reading the first linked article and before talking about Assange, it discusses Lara Logan's violent and VERY disturbing attack. I have to say that I've I've read short pieces about her story but have not been able to read detailed or in depth articles about it because it is just too disturbing to allow my mind to go there. A little bit of reading is all it takes to realize just how brutal and completely nightmarish the whole thing truly was and I can't handle my mind staying there longer, let alone actually going further in. It's like an automatic reaction to turn around, walk the other way and shut the door behind me.


This reaction to only reading a few words makes it even more disturbing to think about what she went through; not just reading words, but real, horrifying violence and no chance to walk away and shut the door, not even after it was over. The memories that will force her to relive it over and over will make it impossible to close that door for a long time. It's just too much to envision. To me, her world is what people mean when they say hell on earth. It's just too horrible for me to imagine. I read about it and my stomach turns and chest gets heavy. I can't imagine how it must leave someone completely broken.


When I read about it, what I also find terrible is that she has not even been afforded her right to privacy about such a horrendous, personal event and has to deal with the whole world knowing, in addition to dealing with the trauma of the event itself. I don't understand why or who decided to deny her the right and to take away her power to choose whether or not she wanted her identity to be known but I think that's really awful and just wrong. Not to mention it's so disrespectful and unbelievably insensitive.


Anyway, I had to comment after reading about it in the article you just linked. Going back to finish the part about Assange now....
 

Miss*Bijou

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I don't find the act of rape confusing, I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion. What I do find confusing is the story, the rumors and details constantly changing confusing. Admittedly it hasn't been at the top of my list of issues to stay informed on and I've not kept up with (or even attempted to) all of the details - but those details are very different from what small amount of information I did read about this. I'm just surprised that I hadn't read that part and when I googled, I couldn't find anything about him having paid one of the women for sex... hence why I asked where you had heard it. It affect my opinion about rape, I just wanted to find and read what you were referring to.


Call me curious... that's essentially what my reaction was about - not about my definition of rape and whether Assange is "important" or not. I wasn't even commenting on that at all.


Mainly - the fact that one of the women was a "whore" (" " because I'm not sure why exactly we are using this term?) was just news to me. So I googled but didn't come up with any references to this news of one of the women being a "whore". I was hoping the links you posted in response to my request would point me there so I could read about it but I still haven't found any reference to it... so I'm still confused. Not about rape, but about the "whore" part of the story I'm apparently missing. Makes sense? :)


For the record: I absolutely think he should be sent back to Sweden to face the music. I hadn't personally formed an opinion on whether or not he was guilty, I don't have any information to base an opinion either way. But I do think that the allegations didn't just come out of nowhere and if they did, it shouldn't be a problem to go and face them. I really have no idea how you concluded any of that stuff or attributed opinions and comments that I never made, especially considering I didn't even address the issue of rape allegations at all. :confused:



PS: The text/comments from your second link are pretty harsh. Some pretty disturbed people out there. Yikes. :eek:


PPS: I think the Assange story has so many issues involved that it kind of derails the discussion into another direction. I understand what you mean about our tendency to dismiss wrongdoing when the accused is a public figure we admire. While I'm not sure this is necessarily limited to rape and really tends to extend to more crimes, there are most definitely many examples where rape is in question. But I think that going into the specifics of this particular trainwreck is probably just going to lead the discussion away from where we started. Just my opinion. :)
 

treveller

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Slut Walk Toronto

And getting back to Miss Bijou's OP, I think the Slut Walk Toronto group has the best approach to deal with these people who tell women that they should;
-avoid dressing like sluts
-stay off the streets at night
-stay in groups
-wear a veil
in order to avoid being raped.

We just had an example in Victoria. Women in Saanich have been told by a Sannich police officer they should aviod walking by themselves on the streets at night so they can avoid the fate of a woman who was assaulted by four men for some hours then left downtown.
 
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