Why can't an Independent SP hire someone to promote them?

[dunnochit]

I commented on another thread about this and then thought it was worthy of its own thread.

I am very curious about this topic. I have read several threads from perbites that an SP is NOT considered an independent if she does not do her own advertising or promotions. WHY? How does having someone do advertising for an SP, make that SP NOT independent? I am not talking about fake reviews, shilling, or having someone else handle emails, I am talking pure advertising, branding, website work and\or marketing, like on PERB, CL or any of the hundreds of spots on the Web to advertise SP services. How does that make an SP NOT be independent? I work for many independent Lawyers that pay someone else to handle their websites, advertising and branding. And I can guarantee that they are a very independent group. So how does being in this industry change the rules? Why shouldn't an SP be able to hire a company or person to promote her services or brand?

Being an SP is a very competitive market, so why shouldn't an SP be able to do what every other business does and have someone help with promotions, branding, marketing etc...? I would be interested in perbite and SP's opinions on this subject, because to me there seems to be a double standard.
JMHO
D

 

[Pillowtalk]

Beyond the living off the avails aspect, there is the issue of client privacy. Clients choose indys with the idea that only the 2 of them are privy to the info exchange. Because in order for a 3rd party to post ads for the sp, they have access to her perb, etc accounts, therefore access to her pms. For CL, email addresses are needed, so they will have access to any emails (identifying clients). When someone is looking for an independent, one of the main things they want is no 3rd party having access to any of their info, or if there is someone with access, that this is known. Some sps have assistants, and they let you know right up front that. It doesn't matter if the sp claims their "helper" doesn't read the emails, etc, fact is they will see who sent messages (handles on boards) if they want to, and they will see email addresses, even if they end up forwarding them unread to the sp.

 

[uncleg]

Because the government doesn't want other people to benefit from her renting her body and has written very explicit laws that leave no room for interpretation. I pasted the cites to the laws in the illegal/legal thread.

So by your interpretation, anybody that takes money from an SP for any reason could be charged as living off the avails. I'd say that if an SP wants to hire somebody to manage a website for her, then that is legal. Further I would consider her to be an independent, just as much as any SP that manages her own site.

 

[Miss*Bijou]

I don't think there's an issue with hiring someone to do your promotion and marketing, I think the issue arises when someone is doing hiring a third party to do more than just promoting (such as handling emails, requests and bookings) IMO this is what would be conceived as deceptive to the client who thinks he is contacted an individual and is not aware that he is in fact sharing his sensitive, private information with someone other than this sp and he in fact believes only this sp will have access to his private info. When a man contact an "independent" sp, it is assumed that this is whom he will be communicating with. If the sp doesn't even handle her own email account & communications, she should not be pretending she is.


We all want to expect some level of discretion and privacy, and handing over control to another party is violating the trust, showing no respect to others' privacy expectations and concerns. It shows a lack of discretion and judgment, is dishonest and irresponsible, which is the total opposite of what I, as a genuinely independent sp, wish to be associated with. Maybe in some cases the act of "hiring" a third party to handles all aspects of one's business doesn't make them any less independent (technically) however everything is entails and implies makes them misrepresent what true independents value and strive for and the way of conducting business that clients expect.


If there is nothing wrong with that, then these sp's would not have a problem stating that:

1) their forum postings, advertising and promo are handled by so and so
2) responses to queries and communications leading up to appointment are handled by a third party and emails are not responded to by sp herself.
3) the sp herself has no control over what so-and-so third party having access to her emails & private messages and will not be held responsible, should some of the information be leaked.


But they don't do that, do they?
And if they did - Would they still sound/seem independent? I'd say...not really.


Working for/represented by Agency:

- Pay 3rd party/agency to handle promo & marketing related activities
- Pay 3rd party/agency to handle emails & private messages
- Pay 3rd party/agency to oversee screening and booking of clients
- Pay 3rd party/agency to handle overall online image & persona


~ IMO The only difference is that one is done overtly while the other is done covertly. ~

There is nothing wrong with working via an agency, so why package it and present it as something it is not? The whole point of being independent is to have full control over who you see, to be in control of all aspects from start to finish. If you hand over control over all of these things, why would you be considered independent.


There's a distinction between hiring someone to take care of certain aspects, while you remain the one in charge ~ and handing over all control, leaving someone else to take over and make all important decisions. An sp who in the end simply "shows up" for the appointment, isn't working independently so why pretend she is?

 

[dunnochit]

Beyond the living off the avails aspect, there is the issue of client privacy. Clients choose indys with the idea that only the 2 of them are privy to the info exchange. Because in order for a 3rd party to post ads for the sp, they have access to her perb, etc accounts, therefore access to her pms. For CL, email addresses are needed, so they will have access to any emails (identifying clients). When someone is looking for an independent, one of the main things they want is no 3rd party having access to any of their info, or if there is someone with access, that this is known. Some sps have assistants, and they let you know right up front that. It doesn't matter if the sp claims their "helper" doesn't read the emails, etc, fact is they will see who sent messages (handles on boards) if they want to, and they will see email addresses, even if they end up forwarding them unread to the sp.

I can't argue the PM issue, and I think the living of the avails issue is cloudy at best, but your CL argument holds no water. You do not have to have access to an email account to post on CL. You simply need an email address for logon, a CL password, not the email password and a confirmed phone number. Unless the SP specifically gave access to the email account, the person posting ads would have no access to any emails.
JMHO
D

 

[Very Veronica]

They can but just be honest and say you have an agent who's speaking on your behalf. And pay Fred the higher agency rate.

 

[dunnochit]

They can but just be honest and say you have an agent who's speaking on your behalf. And pay Fred the higher agency rate.

I was not talking about an agent representing an SP. I am talking pure promotions and branding. Correspondence and any client relations etc.. should be handled exclusively by the SP. I am talking ads and websites. Does that make them NOT independent and if so why?
D

 

[Miss*Bijou]

I was not talking about an agent representing an SP. I am talking pure promotions and branding. Correspondence and any client relations etc.. should be handled exclusively by the SP. I am talking ads and websites. Does that make them NOT independent and if so why?
D

The problem is that very often representation doesn't end at pure promos and branding. No one is saying that because an sp hires a web designer, she is no longer independent. The issue is with independents who hire third party to represent them beyond pure promos and branding.


When you say "pure promo and branding", do you have an example of someone who hires an agent for these purposes only? I don't think that would be a problem if that were the case. However I believe many cases that people get upset about, involve a lot more than just promo.

 

[dunnochit]

The problem is that very often representation doesn't end at pure promos and branding. No one is saying that because an sp hires a web designer, she is no longer independent. The issue is with independents who hire third party to represent them beyond pure promos and branding.


When you say "pure promo and branding", do you have an example of someone who hires an agent for these purposes only? I don't think that would be a problem if that were the case. However I believe many cases that people get upset about, involve a lot more than just promo.

I do not have a specific example and agree that it should be purely promotional. Shilling, acting as the SP, fake reviews etc are not what I was implying. I was asking on a business level, because anyone that works as an SP full time knows, this is still a business and a very competitive one at that. I was curious as to what was accepted and what was not, because their seemed to be differing opinion on the definition of Independent and in some cases it was tied to whether they were doing their own advertising and that made no sense to me.
D

 

[GinaElite]

I know this is slightly off topic but I wonder how much these promoters or assistants get paid to do this sort of thing? and would you get paid by the hour or the call or would you just get a flat salary? I have never really heard of this being done before

For me the best part about being independent in self promoting ....

The way I personally feel about doing my own advertising is this : Its kinda like being a man and giving yourself a hand job you know yourself better then anyone. You know what you like so in turn no one gives a better hand job then yourself lol hahaha! For me its like this: No one can promote me better then myself cause I know exactly what I like and what I do best!

As for the main topic of this conversation ladies should be able to promote themselves however they like as long as they are not breeching someone else's discretion and safety and you are not misleading your clients in any way shape or form.

Thats just my two cents

XO GINA XO