Gangs and ID Scanning

Stella_Hardon

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We finally get some info on what is happening in the lower mainland.

It is reported that we have some 120 gangs. I'd like to see the definition of gangs as this seems to be a very high count.

It also appears the UN Gang is on patrol to wipe out the Red Scorpions (Bacon Boys)

The privacy commissioner of BC has written a report on the Barwatch program which should be released in February.

Do you think he will be able to recommend stopping Barwatch in light of the current gang activity ? Do you see Barwatch as an effective tool ?
 

jim

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May 11, 2002
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Over 2 hands plus a mouthful big
Do you think he will be able to recommend stopping Barwatch in light of the current gang activity ? Do you see Barwatch as an effective tool ?
I am not sure how the program works in BC, we do have one in Edmonton however. Here it was not introduced as an 'anti gang' measure. All the bars who use the program have access to the data and therefore a troublemaker flagged at Bar A will not be able to get into Bar B C or D. While it may not be a good gang deterrent if it prevents an incident, it is worthwhile IMHO.
 

maroonedsailor

lookin for a liveaboard
Jun 10, 2007
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Barwatch?????enlighten me please

Gangs are not going to be under control until gun laws demand NO bail and 5 years min. no chance of parole, on conviction for possession of an unregistered firearm. Until the guns are under control these guys will terrorize the public with impunity. Get caught with a gun for which you have no permit and bang - your ass is in the slammer. It won't stop the drug trade but it WILL take some of these assholes off the streets for a while and give the public some breathing space.
 

PatB5678

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Hey, if it's the UN gang fighting with the Red Scorpions for "control" of the drug trade, I am just wondering how the Hells Angels fit into all this?

Or have the HA lines of distribution been limited by police efforts over the last decade, and now these gangs have just managed to fill the vacuum?

I just think it's interesting these gangs- from the pics in the newspaper they look like suburban middle class youth- have quickly gained prominence. Anybody have any theories?
 

treveller

Member
Sep 22, 2008
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Tougher Gun Laws Won't Help

I have nothing against tougher gun laws. If someone uses a gun, a car or anything else in such a way that they endanger others they should be given a life sentence.

Just don't expect that to have any effect on gang violence. The only sane way to deal with gang violence is to end the criminal prohibition against drug use by adults. Let adults buy what they want at the liquor store and organized crime will be near extinct in a month.

Want to understand how useless and harmful the "War On Drugs" is? Take a look at this web site, http://www.leap.cc/
 

Stella_Hardon

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In the local paper there was a mention made that there are 120 gangs.
I suspect that number is way too high


An article from Now Public : (NOTE : This is only an extract : the list of gangs mentioned in the article.)

Vancouver: Who are The Red Scorpions?
Share: Email Story Add to Any Digg Facebook Stumbleupon
by Barry Artiste | May 31, 2008 at 05:27 am


Below is a list of Criminal Organizations operating freely in the lower mainland of British Columbia, earning us the distinction as a Vancouver " World Criminal Superpower". An Honour I place squarely without hesitation on our Provincial Politicians and a incompetent Justice system who for decades allowed these criminal organizations to fester, with our Justice systems ongoing Catch and Release Programs for Criminals.

1. 14K Triad
2. 18th Street
3. Big Circle Boys
4. Born To Kill

5. Brown Side Thugz - Indo Canadian gang in the Surrey, BC area.
According to user sources, significant members have operated in the
drug trade, sex trade, gun smugling, kidnapping, and murder .
6.Daku Killaz - according to user sources, a violent Indo-Canadian gang
located in East Vancouver, with close ties to the Independent Soldiers.
The gang has allegedly been involved in kidnapping Indo Canadian
business-men, home invasions, murder, and cross border human
trafficking.
7. Dark Cloud Bloods
8. Death do us Part (DDP)
9. Dosanjh Brothers - According to users, the Dosanjh Brothers were the first Indo Canadian gang in

Vancouver. Brothers Ron and Jimmy Dosanjh were killed in separate hits
in 1994 and 1995 in a drug turf war by former associate-turned-rival
Bindy Johal. Bindy Johal then took over the gang in the mid 1990s until
he was murdered in a Vancover night club on in Dec 20, 1998. The deaths
of such members, often revered for the respect they attracted, continue
to influence young Indo Canadian gangsters. (for more information on
Indo-Canadian gangs, see this Vancouver Sun article)
10. Eastside Disciples Crips (connected to 1960s-era Eastside Disciples?)
11. The Elite (Richmond, B.C based Indo-Canadian hit squad)
12. FBK - South Vancouver Indo-Canadian gang
13. GGB
14. Hell's Angels
15. Independent Soldiers (Vancouver Indo-Canadian gang)
16. Indo-Canadian Mafia
17. KBC - major Filipino gang in the 1990s with membership from 60-100 (now defunct)
18. Kapital Ground Brotherhood (KGB)
19. Krazy Cambodian Killers KCK
20. L.A Boys (Latino gang)
21. Los Diablos (as of 1989)
22. Lotus
23. Mara Loca (Latino gang)
24. MS-13
25. Mobtown Crew - East Indian organization in East Vancouver
26. Night Crawlers
27. Persian Pride (now defunct)
28. Red Eagles (as of 1989)
29. Red Scorpions - users report that the Red Scorpions were originaly formed in the Young Offenders

facility in 2000 and from there continued to grow. They are
muli-cultured, as race is secondary to loyalty and respect. They have
allegedly been involved in a variety of serious crimes, and a range of
international ties. However, users say they are small in numbers (20),
and most are in prison.
30. Sunset Boyz - East Indian gang from Southeast Vancouver
31. Sur 13

32. Surrey Jacks - Indo-Canadian gang in the Surrey area, involved in
car theft, home invasions and kidnappings, according to user sources.
33. TJ Thandi
34. U.N Gang (Abbotsford, B.C based gang. U.N stands for United Nations because of
the gangs multiracial make-up; Indo-Canadians, Asians, Persians, Whites)

35. Viet Ching (also heavily reported on the US west coast, especially
Los Angeles. According to a 1999 article by Agence-Presse France, "The
two largest gangs in the United States are the Los Angeles branch of
the Viet-Ching and the Born To Kill gang of New York city, also
affiliated to the Viet-Ching." According to other reports, Vietnamese
gangs such as Viet Ching have typically leaned more towards organized,
high-tech and business crime, including extortion and human trafficking)
36. West Coast Players WCP (Black gang of pimps and drug dealers)
37. WCPM - West Coast Punjabi Mafia, Indo-Canadian crime organization with ties in California
 
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Stella_Hardon

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Article from the Vancouver Sun :

Bursts of activity put spotlight on certain gangs
Groups change, but power struggles still over drugs, expert says

Earlier this decade, all the headlines about gangs seemed to focus on the old-school veterans: the Hells Angels.

Then, a few years back, they told the tale of dozens of upstart Indo-Canadian men killing each other in Metro Vancouver.

Now those in the media spotlight appear to be mostly young, suburban gangsters involved in public shootings.

The common denominator throughout has been the illicit drug industry, but have the players evolved as the headlines would suggest?

Not really, argues Robert Gordon, director of the criminology department at Simon Fraser University. All these groups have been, and continue to be, key players in B. C.’ s booming drug trade.

There are just “ bursts” of activity by certain players at certain times because of behind-thescenes disputes, Gordon says.

What’s happening now — nine people shot in 11 days in Metro Vancouver — echoes events in the fall of 2007, when 10 people were shot dead during a month of gangland mayhem. It is also reminiscent of 2005, when a spate of targeted killings brought to 60 the body count of IndoCanadian men.

Each burst of action is frightening and worrisome, but not necessarily an indication of new groups in the drug scene, Gordon said.

For the past 15 or so years, biker gangs such as the Hells Angels have largely provided the financing and security for drug operations, he said. Less organized individuals and organizations, some of them Vietnamese, specialized in growing or cooking the drugs.

A third group controlled the distribution of drugs and the collection of money. Among this group were some of the IndoCanadians slain earlier this decade and the young suburban men in the news today, Gordon said.

There have been theories about some of the Indo-Canadian men being torn between traditional culture and modern-day society. But such conflicts likely are not factors with many of the Fraser Valley men involved in recent shootings. Three brothers at the centre of the news recently, the Bacons of Abbotsford, come from an attractive home where both parents have middleclass jobs.

In fact, Gordon argues, these brothers are not members of a “ street gang.” Their lifestyle can only be described as belonging to members of lucrative organized crime.

The reasons the Bacons and their affiliates are embroiled in a public war that has seen bullets flying across mall parking lots and crowded intersections could be varied.

But one distinct possibility, Gordon said, is that the mighty Hells Angels have been wounded by recent police busts. Therefore, their former partners are b e c o m i n g c o m p e t i t o r s by expanding beyond the distribution of drugs into production.

“ The dilution of the power of the Hells Angels ... upsets the power balance within this industry,” Gordon said.

“ The current situation here is probably some sort of major disruption, a primary push for market share for one or more groups, and they are thrashing it out.”

When the death toll of IndoCanadian men climbed to 60 a few years back, community leaders and South Asian politicians spoke out, demanding the violence stop. That might have stopped some from entering gangs, Gordon said, but likely didn’t convince many entrenched gangsters — already addicted to the money — to leave.

Meanwhile, Solicitor-General John van Dongen announced Friday the province is putting new money into programs to deter youth from joining gangs and to spread the message that membership means they may not “ live to their 30th birthday.”

“ I’m advised that some of the more traditional, well-established gangs are still involved,” van Dongen, who is also the MLA for Abbotsford, said in an interview with The Vancouver Sun. “ They are just further in the background.

“ And some of the newer gangs, you are seeing them more on the front line and hence, they are more visible, in terms of the turf wars and the shootings,” he said.

“ Some of these young guys grew up in our own community and in our own schools, and it is very sad to talk to people who knew them as kids and everything seemed like a normal situation, and then they fell into the trap of getting into gangs.”

Abbotsford Mayor George Peary said city police have cameras on the Bacon family home — where two of the sons must continue to live to abide by bail conditions — and officers are stationed out front to follow the brothers in their vehicles.

Peary said he has sought advice from the City of Surrey, where much of the Indo-Canadian violence has played out, and is setting up a crime-reduction task force in Abbotsford. Part of the goal is to strengthen Block Watch and citizen parole programs, and to better inform residents about the goings-on in communities.

The Bacon brothers are linked to the Red Scorpions gang, and Peary said he knows of local men involved in at least two other gangs, all of which started out small but graduated into the “ big leagues” of exporting drugs.

“ It is all about drugs and powers and weapons and money, and they are carving out their turf and trying to settle scores,” he said.

SFU’s Gordon said the efforts of municipalities like Abbotsford, and stepped measures such those announced Friday by the police and the provincial government, are well intentioned.

But Gordon, a former RCMP officer, argues B. C. needs an organized crime agency with more resources and more staff to target gangs. There are about 120 organized crime groups in the province right now, and police estimate they have only enough manpower to properly track about five of them, Gordon said.
 

Stella_Hardon

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The shooting problem in the Lower Mainland seems to be the UN wiping out the Red Scorpions. (This info was released by the innocent victim's family ... NOT the police ) (How many Red Scorpions are left : three Bacon Brothers and say five associates )

We now have the Gov't getting 10 crown counsels and a couple of hundred more police on gang duty.

It won't work ...

If you recall the Pickton crime. It took a year in court to get Robert Pickton and yet his brother and sister who lived on the farm has just filed a lawsuit to claim damages caused by the RCMP for tearing up the farm. Are you telling me that they didn't know what was going on or that there wasn't any evidence to tie them to the killings ?

There was a piece in the Province arguing for the gangsters losing all the bling ... This legislation is already on the books and the HA won the first court case. The HA still have the club house in Coquitlam.

The cops are doing a great job at documenting the shootings. If you were a cop responding to the next shooting call how eager would you be to get there early.

Read the papers .. each one of the participants is "known" to the police.

Just how difficult would it be to raid and inspect the "known" gangster's hangouts. Most of the war wagons are leased from Four Corners ... maybe inspect them also.
 

Krustee

Banned
Nov 9, 2007
1,567
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37 different gangs & the vast majority of them east Indian.

Hmmm - maybe time to close our immigration to new EI immigrants as there seems to be a trend here?

If they don't respect the laws here, why should they be welcomed with open arms?

I know that it is politically incorrect to say anything to or about anyone who is not a native Canadian but why come here & ruin this country?

Stay in your own countries & continue the atrocities there but don't come here unless you offer something positive.

:cool:
 
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tootall204

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Aug 2, 2008
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The shooting problem in the Lower Mainland seems to be the UN wiping out the Red Scorpions. (This info was released by the innocent victim's family ... NOT the police ) (How many Red Scorpions are left : three Bacon Brothers and say five associates )
Accually it goes back and forth The RS goes after one of the UN and then the UN goes after a RS..

The guy (Todd Joseph (Joe) Krantz) who owned the extreme fighting club Gym here in Abby was a UN member and he was shot up and killed outside the gym
 

trackstar

Swollen Member
Jun 26, 2004
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The media kills me :rolleyes: So many of those "Gang" names are defunct, kids in Vancouver using the names of legitimate gangs to be all scary, 12-15 year old aboriginal kids in care who hang out together and decide that they are now a gang and need a name (Night Crawlers), etc. Funny how it didn't mention Red Alert and IP, which are Aboriginal gangs that the gang squad actually does recognise as being a gang.

That list is such a sensationalised joke with the sole intention of shocking the masses :rolleyes: And if they're going to mention all of those lame assed 80's teenage gangs, why not include the Red Eagles? Come on, who can forget the trench coat wearing, machete carrying arch enemies of the Lotus gang? :p

The gang to REALLY fear? The one that doesn't have a name, is not identifiable, does not advertise and can make you disappear without a trace :eek: The other one wears a uniform, falsifies reports, kicks your ass and then puts you in jail for not kissing theirs ;)
 

wess

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Hey, if it's the UN gang fighting with the Red Scorpions for "control" of the drug trade, I am just wondering how the Hells Angels fit into all this?

Or have the HA lines of distribution been limited by police efforts over the last decade, and now these gangs have just managed to fill the vacuum?

I just think it's interesting these gangs- from the pics in the newspaper they look like suburban middle class youth- have quickly gained prominence. Anybody have any theories?
These Bacon fags started off as nothing more then some low class suburban wanna bees. How they got for real, i dont know.

The bacon fags mom works at the local credit union.

the bacon fags dad is on the local school board.
 

Shakerod

Active member
May 7, 2008
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These Bacon fags started off as nothing more then some low class suburban wanna bees. How they got for real, i dont know.

The bacon fags mom works at the local credit union.

the bacon fags dad is on the local school board.
I would venture to guess that the majority of these gang members come from a normal family, once their children are out of control the question is: How do you as a parent deal with it? Keeping in mind that there is not a lot of help out there for parents who have a kid going through this.
 

Stella_Hardon

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Apr 29, 2006
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The media kills me :rolleyes: So many of those "Gang" names are defunct, kids in Vancouver using the names of legitimate gangs to be all scary, 12-15 year old aboriginal kids in care who hang out together and decide that they are now a gang and need a name (Night Crawlers), etc. Funny how it didn't mention Red Alert and IP, which are Aboriginal gangs that the gang squad actually does recognise as being a gang.

That list is such a sensationalised joke with the sole intention of shocking the masses :rolleyes: And if they're going to mention all of those lame assed 80's teenage gangs, why not include the Red Eagles? Come on, who can forget the trench coat wearing, machete carrying arch enemies of the Lotus gang? :p

The gang to REALLY fear? The one that doesn't have a name, is not identifiable, does not advertise and can make you disappear without a trace :eek: The other one wears a uniform, falsifies reports, kicks your ass and then puts you in jail for not kissing theirs ;)
Don't be to critical of the "press" for the list. I found it on nowpublic.com which should be considered "alternative press".

If the list had 37 gangs, do you really think there are 120 "gangs" in BC ?
Who did the count and what was the definition of "gang", and why didn't the Vancouver press ask a whole lot of tough questions ?

There is a valid point about the gang wearing the uniform.

Now that we are in election mode it will be interesting to see how all this unfolds or simmers on the back burner.
 

I Hate CBJ's

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Jan 24, 2009
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The media kills me :rolleyes: So many of those "Gang" names are defunct, kids in Vancouver using the names of legitimate gangs to be all scary, 12-15 year old aboriginal kids in care who hang out together and decide that they are now a gang and need a name (Night Crawlers), etc. Funny how it didn't mention Red Alert and IP, which are Aboriginal gangs that the gang squad actually does recognise as being a gang.

That list is such a sensationalised joke with the sole intention of shocking the masses :rolleyes: And if they're going to mention all of those lame assed 80's teenage gangs, why not include the Red Eagles? Come on, who can forget the trench coat wearing, machete carrying arch enemies of the Lotus gang? :p
So true! Watch out for the Persian Pride and the Dark Clouds coming to a hood near you - VIA TIME MACHINE!

:p
 

TrickyRicky

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Jan 1, 2008
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Will tougher laws help??? I don't think so, look at down south?? Some stats still have the death penalty but still have major gangs and serious crime!!! They're are some real, real big fish involved, but they're so insulated good luck getting to them. We live in a city where druggies shootup openly in public, the police let this happen good for their business!!!
 

greatshark

Member
Mar 1, 2006
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37 different gangs & the vast majority of them east Indian.

Hmmm - maybe time to close our immigration to new EI immigrants as there seems to be a trend here?

If they don't respect the laws here, why should they be welcomed with open arms?

I know that it is politically incorrect to say anything to or about anyone who is not a native Canadian but why come here & ruin this country?

Stay in your own countries & continue the atrocities there but don't come here unless you offer something positive.

:cool:
If what you said was true, then it would be easy.

Virtually all the EI gang members, and all the gang leaders are not recent immigrants. In fact, virtually everyone involved are born and raised in Canada. They are a product of our Canadian society. Just like the notorious Bindy Johal was, he was born and raised here. Him being glorified in the nightly news no doubt influenced many youth (EI and white) to join the gangsta life. In fact, it might surprise to know that his father was born in Canada too. That made him 3rd generation Canadian.

Look who is involved in most of the shootings these days. The Red Scorpinions and UN gangs which are mainly white guys from the suburbs.
 

Stella_Hardon

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Apr 29, 2006
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Article from Europe re: Terrorism and Police State
MI-5 is the British form of the FBI

------------------------------------------------------------------

Anti-terror laws are creating "police-state" -- former head of MI5
Posted by Cory Doctorow, February 17, 2009 2:22 AM | permalink

Dame Stella Rimington, the former head of MI5, has made a blistering public condemnation of the British government's "exploitation" of the threat of terrorism to create a "police state" where the terrorist objective of taking away Britons' liberty is achieved by government, and where crackdowns serve to inspire new terrorists.

In an interview with the Spanish newspaper La Vanguardia, Dame Stella said: "Since I have retired I feel more at liberty to be against certain decisions of the Government, especially the attempt to pass laws which interfere with people's privacy."

In the interview, published in the Daily Telegraph, she continued: "It would be better that the Government recognised that there are risks, rather than frightening people in order to be able to pass laws which restrict civil liberties, precisely one of the objects of terrorism: that we live in fear and under a police state..."

"Furthermore it has achieved the opposite effect: there are more and more suicide terrorists finding a greater justification."
 

Stella_Hardon

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The Penthouse now has ID scanning on Fridays and Saturdays.

So if you are a gangster or troublemaker make sure you visit the club Monday to Thursday.

If you are a gangster or troublemaker I guess you can have a pretty good time at the Nelson Cafe which is fairly close to the Penthouse. The Nelson is very cozy.

I suppose we can expect a ruling from the Privacy Commissioner of BC on the whole Barwatch process any day now. If Barwatch and ID scanning is ruled a privacy violation (WHICH IT IS) what can the Vancouver Police do next in their fight against crime.

Maybe have a couple of beat cops patrol Granville Street ?
 

trackstar

Swollen Member
Jun 26, 2004
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The Penthouse now has ID scanning on Fridays and Saturdays.

So if you are a gangster or troublemaker make sure you visit the club Monday to Thursday.

If you are a gangster or troublemaker I guess you can have a pretty good time at the Nelson Cafe which is fairly close to the Penthouse. The Nelson is very cozy.

I suppose we can expect a ruling from the Privacy Commissioner of BC on the whole Barwatch process any day now. If Barwatch and ID scanning is ruled a privacy violation (WHICH IT IS) what can the Vancouver Police do next in their fight against crime.

Maybe have a couple of beat cops patrol Granville Street ?
If you see it as a privacy violation, don't you just have the option of not going to that establishment? :confused:
 
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