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Krustee

Banned
Nov 9, 2007
1,567
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0
Some of you have been privy to my numerous comments on the current economic crisis in north America & around the world.
And a select few of you poor souls have had to endure my preaching in person as I try to prepare you for baptism in the economic fire blazing across our planet.

I can`t help but notice that so many here are seemingly oblivious to the enormity of what is happening around them.

This post will be a sincere attempt at waking you peeps who seem to think this economic nightmare is just a bunch of negative naysayers who are running around claiming the sky is falling.

Well, the sky is not falling, but the value of our currency sure as hell is!

Read the post I made yesterday in the "How the Clinton administration sold out America" thread about the meltdown in Iceland.

The below post by Oliver Garret of The Casey Report does a great job of sizing up the magnitude of the situation in the States & lest you think we are insulated from them...
THINK AGAIN!!!
The US accounts for a full 84% of all goods & services we export here in Canada!


The Real Cost of the 2008 Bailout- Hyperinflation

By Olivier Garret, CEO,
The Casey Report
www.caseyresearch.com

It took the statisticians of the National Bureau of Economic Research almost a year to confirm what the rest of us already knew, that the US registered a significant decline in economic activity, thus officially entering a period of recession.

While I am pleased that the members of NBER take their duties seriously, thereby ensuring that they don’t leap to any hasty conclusions, I only wish that similar moderation could be displayed by their colleagues at the Fed and the Treasury.

Unfortunately, the facts prove otherwise. Three months before the recession was officially declared, Paulson and Bernanke have embarked on the largest bailout program ever conceived with the blessing of a lame-duck president and a complicit Congress - a program which so far will cost taxpayers $8.5 trillion. This staggering sum encompasses: loans backed by worthless assets ($2.3T), equity investments in bankrupt companies with negative net worth ($3.0T), and guarantees on crumbling derivatives and other hollow collateral ($3.2T).



Back in September I was stunned that Paulson was able to make his case and win the support of Congress for a $700 billion bailout package (more than the total war spending in Iraq to date).

How could Americans (or more accurately, their representatives) agree to give such a broad mandate with so few checks and balances? Have we become completely numb?

While I realize that many of our compatriots have been running large credit card balances and interest-only mortgages with little thought as to how they would repay their debt, one would expect a little more restraint when dealing with the financial future of the largest economy in the world.

Operating under the assumption that our largest financial institutions are “too big to fail”, in the span of a few weeks we went from pledging to spend $1 trillion to $3 trillion – a commitment which then grew to $5 trillion before ballooning to a staggering $8.5 trillion.

At the rate we are going, we will be dealing with double digits – in trillions- before the end of the year.

And while all off that money is not yet spent, make no mistake - these are real commitments with serious liabilities attached to them.

I have heard the argument that an equity infusion is not the same as spending money. While I would agree that in an arms-length transaction this might actually be the case, our government is definitely paying a large premium. What is the real value of Citicorp or AIG? Since they are quasi-bankrupt (and would be totally bankrupt without massive injections from the Fed), a reasonable businessperson might pay a token price for their equity and the assumption of their enormous liabilities. Before doing so however, a buyer would have to see some significant value in buying these entities as a continuing business. In most cases, a buyer would not want to assume the company’s liabilities but would prefer to buy selective unencumbered assets in a bankruptcy proceeding. Any money our government pays above what a reasonable person would pay in an arms-length transaction is real spending and should more accurately be called a grant.

While defenders of the too-big-to-fail policies argue that providing guarantees is not the same as granting money, the reality is that these guarantees are necessary to prevent the collapse of financial institutions currently lacking the necessary collateral to meet their loan covenants. Should their loans be called, we could actually find out the real value of their assets. The fact is that in-spite of Paulson’s and Bernanke’s efforts, deleveraging is already happening. Although at a slower pace, one asset class after another is being adjusted down towards its intrinsic value, which is usually not much. Make no mistake; many of these guarantees will eventually be called in by lenders. In due time, unless our government is able to inflates its way out of this bottomless pit, it will have to honor most of these guarantees.

So how does $8.5 trillion dollars compare with the cost of some of the major conflicts and programs initiated by the US government since its inception? To try and grasp the enormity of this figure, let’s look at some other financial commitments undertaken by our government in the past:





As illustrated above, you can see that in today’s dollars, we have already committed to spending levels that surpass the cumulative cost of all of the major wars and government initiatives since the American Revolution.

Recently, the Congressional Research Service estimated the cost of all of the major wars our country has fought in 2008 dollars. The chart above shows that the entire cost of WWII over four to five years was less than half the current pledges made by Paulson and Bernanke in the last three months!

In spite of years of conflict, the Vietnam and the Iraq wars have each cost less than the bailout package that was approved by Congress in two weeks. The Civil War that devastated our country had a total price tag (for both the Union and Confederacy) of $60.4 billion, while the Revolutionary War was fought for a mere $1.8 billion.

In its fifty or so years of existence, NASA has only managed to spend $885 billion – a figure which got us to the moon and beyond.

The New Deal had a price tag of only $500 billion. The Marshall Plan that enabled the reconstruction of Europe following WWII for $13 billion, comes out to approximately $125 billion in 2008 dollars. The cost of fixing the S&L crisis was $235 billion.

The best deal ever for a government program was the Louisiana Purchase, a deal with the French that gave us 23% of the surface of today’s US for only $15 million ($284 million in today’s dollars). Why couldn’t Paulson and Bernanke display the financial acumen of a Thomas Jefferson?

How will our country repay its debts? The current bailout represents 62% of our GDP. Our current deficit of almost $11 trillion may exceed our GDP next year.

Recently the Treasury has been able to place new debt; investors have liquidated equities and bonds and sought refuge in the relative safety of the dollar and government bonds.

As we move forward however, our government will need to attract trillions of dollars annually to fund its programs and commitments. The foreigners who have financed our irresponsible spending for many years will no longer be able to afford it, let alone finance more of our reckless behavior.

As a matter of fact, several countries have already announced their own bailout packages to prop up their domestic economy. And, unlike during WWII, when Americans invested their savings to support the war effort and fund our government’s deficit, our citizens are in debt themselves with no savings left to invest.

In the near future, the Fed will have no choice but to turn on the printing presses and start operating them around the clock to create the money that can’t be raised in the capital market.

These actions will lead to a significant debasement of the dollar and a major appreciation of gold and all commodities (real assets).

Once this inflationary cycle starts, foreigners will realize that their investments in T-bills are depreciating rapidly. There will be a massive exodus that will put more pressure on the dollar and on interest rates. Our weakened US economy will be faced with the rising cost of capital and a painful period of stagflation. Trillions of dollars will have been wasted. Our government will have mortgaged America and the ensuing debt will have to be paid by future generations.

Hyperinflation is not a very bright picture, to be sure, but the Casey Research team strongly believes that there are opportunities in every crisis.


http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Hyperinflation_Articles/Hyperinflation_Bailout.asp#Continue


Time to Wake Up!!!!

Spending is NOT the answer!

Suze Orman on Larry King Live tonite, said the following:
"... if you still have a job you should act as if you were going to lose your job, save as much as possible & pay off your debt."



:cool:
 

blazejowski

Panty Connoisseur
Dec 20, 2004
3,945
143
63
Well, I think that when you analyze the facts and figures, pertaining to the Zzzzzzzzzzzzz..... :p ;)
 

blazejowski

Panty Connoisseur
Dec 20, 2004
3,945
143
63
I could be in the minority, but I couldn't give a rat's ass about the state of the economy... :)
 

FunSugarDaddy

New member
Aug 15, 2008
1,110
5
0
Gold promoters

Yup those are the guys I want to start taking advice from.

The fact that of the 8.5 Trillion, most of it was due to the take over of Fannie Mac & May and is mostly secured by mortgages, and that about 1Trillion, or so, is in preferred shares of US banks appears to be worth exactly nothing.
 

moi

Female Companion
Mar 31, 2008
621
5
0
Edmontons
I could be in the minority, but I couldn't give a rat's ass about the state of the economy... :)
I'm not TOO concerned as by the time I'm done school, things should be starting to go up again, hopefully.
 

wess

New member
Jan 5, 2009
614
2
0
Some of you have been privy to my numerous comments on the current economic crisis in north America & around the world.
And a select few of you poor souls have had to endure my preaching in person as I try to prepare you for baptism in the economic fire blazing across our planet.

I can`t help but notice that so many here are seemingly oblivious to the enormity of what is happening around them.

This post will be a sincere attempt at waking you peeps who seem to think this economic nightmare is just a bunch of negative naysayers who are running around claiming the sky is falling.

Well, the sky is not falling, but the value of our currency sure as hell is!

Read the post I made yesterday in the "How the Clinton administration sold out America" thread about the meltdown in Iceland.

The below post by Oliver Garret of The Casey Report does a great job of sizing up the magnitude of the situation in the States & lest you think we are insulated from them...
THINK AGAIN!!!
The US accounts for a full 84% of all goods & services we export here in Canada!






Time to Wake Up!!!!

Spending is NOT the answer!

Suze Orman on Larry King Live tonite, said the following:
"... if you still have a job you should act as if you were going to lose your job, save as much as possible & pay off your debt."



:cool:
Im staying in cash so i can lend out my money at double digit intrest rates
 

Krustee

Banned
Nov 9, 2007
1,567
11
0
Yup those are the guys I want to start taking advice from.

The fact that of the 8.5 Trillion, most of it was due to the take over of Fannie Mac & May and is mostly secured by mortgages, and that about 1Trillion, or so, is in preferred shares of US banks appears to be worth exactly nothing.
I think the last time you commented on this issue I corrected you but here goes again;
The above GSE`s which you are referring to are properly termed:
Freddie Mac
&
Fannie Mae
If you really knew anything about these two GSE`s you would know how to properly spell the nick names.

I first posted about them in response to Fudd here:
https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=804259#post804259

I still have no idea what you are talking about when you say "preferred shares of US banks" because that would not have anything to do with the MBS`s that were sold under Freddie Mac of which therein were many FNMA loans.
MBS`s are mortgage-backed securities which are backed by the actual homes the loans are made on.

These are not shares in the bank that gave out the loan.

I`m not TOO concerned as by the time I`m done school, things should be starting to go up again, hopefully.
So, I take it you will be going for your doctorate?

Yes, hopefully in 8-10 years we will be on an up swing.
:rolleyes:

Im staying in cash so i can lend out my money at double digit intrest rates
Well I certainly hope you have container loads of cash, because if we go into Hyperinflation, as is predicted ...
you will need a wheelbarrow load of it just to buy a loaf of bread!

Read what I posted about Iceland...
you just might feel a shiver coming on.


Have a nice day folks!

:D
 

FunSugarDaddy

New member
Aug 15, 2008
1,110
5
0
I think the last time you commented on this issue I corrected you but here goes again;
That`s funny, you actually walked away from the conversation when I proved you wrong, better brush up on your memory skills. Might want to re-read this thread to see who corrected who.

https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=95753&highlight=Clinton+administration


The above GSE`s which you are referring to are properly termed:
Freddie Mac
&
Fannie Mae
If you really knew anything about these two GSE`s you would know how to properly spell the nick names.;
I stand corrected on the spelling of their nicknames, my error. Spelling had always been my downfall. But since you know how to spell their names, I take it you understand that when the government took them over, the assets on the books became theirs, so it wasn`t just a 5 tillion dollar bail out with nothing in return, like your gold pushers were suggesting.


I still have no idea what you are talking about when you say "preferred shares of US banks" because that would not have anything to do with the MBS`s that were sold under Freddie Mac of which therein were many FNMA loans. .;
Well if you don`t know what the federal government is buying with their money that about ends the discusion.


MBS`s are mortgage-backed securities which are backed by the actual homes the loans are made on..;
hmm, MBS as they relate to mortgages stands for "Mortgage Backed Securities" who would have ever thunk such a thing :rolleyes:


Read what I posted about Iceland...
you just might feel a shiver coming on.
I`m not sure what you posted, but I read the Economist weekly and I`m well aware that for an practical purposes Iceland is bankrupt.


Have a nice day folks!

You too.
 

jim

New member
May 11, 2002
3,478
22
0
Over 2 hands plus a mouthful big
I could be in the minority, but I couldn't give a rat's ass about the state of the economy... :)
Are you independently wealthy or are you already a pauper?

As far as students are concerned, they are finding that the ride is over. I heard of a class of grads of a program where they historically all found jobs after graduation. It was such a given this year's class didn't even bother applying for job they figured come grad they'll just walk into a place and land a job. The whole class is jobless.

The headline for the article below states:
129,000 positions disappear in January, far exceeding even pessimistic forecasts
The Toronto Star

I know that I'm focusing on debt retirement and won't be making any major purchases soon.
 

Krustee

Banned
Nov 9, 2007
1,567
11
0
That`s funny, you actually walked away from the conversation when I proved you wrong, better brush up on your memory skills. Might want to re-read this thread to see who corrected who.

https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=95753&highlight=Clinton+administration
I didn`t walk away ...
I`m just waiting for you to provide a link for your quotes.

https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=807371#post807371


I stand corrected on the spelling of their nicknames, my error. Spelling had always been my downfall. But since you know how to spell their names, I take it you understand that when the government took them over, the assets on the books became theirs, so it wasn`t just a 5 trillion dollar bail out with nothing in return, like your gold pushers were suggesting.
I must be confused here FSD ...?
When did the gubment take them over?

A 5 trillion dollar bailout the gubment gave themselves?

My "goldpushers"?

You`ve peaked my interest now...
Please feel free to go into a detailed explanation on the above cuz I don`t understand your premise or insinuations.

Originally Posted by Krustee:
I still have no idea what you are talking about when you say "preferred shares of US banks" because that would not have anything to do with the MBS`s that were sold under Freddie Mac of which therein were many FNMA loans.
Well if you don`t know what the federal government is buying with their money that about ends the discusion.
What does "preferred shares in US banks" have to do with the US Gubment?

Loans are bundled & packaged into securities by FNMA, a GSE, with the explicit function to buy and securitize mortgages thus ensuring that funding is continuously available to the lending institutions that loan money to home buyers.

Please tell me what the gubment is buying if not mortgages to securitize?

hmm, MBS as they relate to mortgages stands for "Mortgage Backed Securities" who would have ever thunk such a thing :rolleyes:
Apparently... you didn`t.
You keep referring to these mystery shares in US banks?

I`m not sure what you posted, but I read the Economist weekly and I`m well aware that for an practical purposes Iceland is bankrupt.
"Right you are Ken"

Now can you tell me why?

:rolleyes:
 

wess

New member
Jan 5, 2009
614
2
0
I think the last time you commented on this issue I corrected you but here goes again;
The above GSE`s which you are referring to are properly termed:
Freddie Mac
&
Fannie Mae
If you really knew anything about these two GSE`s you would know how to properly spell the nick names.

I first posted about them in response to Fudd here:
https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=804259#post804259

I still have no idea what you are talking about when you say "preferred shares of US banks" because that would not have anything to do with the MBS`s that were sold under Freddie Mac of which therein were many FNMA loans.
MBS`s are mortgage-backed securities which are backed by the actual homes the loans are made on.

These are not shares in the bank that gave out the loan.


So, I take it you will be going for your doctorate?

Yes, hopefully in 8-10 years we will be on an up swing.
:rolleyes:



Well I certainly hope you have container loads of cash, because if we go into Hyperinflation, as is predicted ...
you will need a wheelbarrow load of it just to buy a loaf of bread!

Read what I posted about Iceland...
you just might feel a shiver coming on.


Have a nice day folks!

:D
I am savy in this subject. Im just sitting here not knowing what the fuck to do. What you are saying i already know , thats why i sold my house a year ago.

Everything is fuct, now that Obamas in.

What are you doing with your money ?
 

FunSugarDaddy

New member
Aug 15, 2008
1,110
5
0
I didn`t walk away ...
I`m just waiting for you to provide a link for your quotes.

https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=807371#post807371
Good grief..AFAIK, the link was provided by you. I simply read the damn thing.

Sorry if this was too confusing for you. :rolleyes:

As for the rest, I can`t be bothered responding to it. You`re apparently not aware of the company of whose link you posted, nor of much of the details related to the TARP hand outs or the conditions associated with the take over of some of these financial entities. So let`s just move on.
 
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Krustee

Banned
Nov 9, 2007
1,567
11
0
Good grief..AFAIK, the link was provided by you. I simply read the damn thing.

Sorry if this was too confusing for you. :rolleyes:

As for the rest, I can't be bothered responding to it. You're apparently not aware of the company of whose link you posted, nor of much of the details related to the TARP hand outs or the conditions associated with the take over of some of these financial entities. So let's just move on.
For one so quick to criticize you sure seem short on facts.

I think the members here, & I know I sure am, are hoping to bask in your infinite wisdom & knowledge.

Please - PLEASE answer my previous questions.

;)

If nothing else, just share with me the link I provided that you claim you read that info on - I can't seem to find it.

:confused:

Let's see I don't know anything about the bailout eh?
Troubled Asset Relief Program is just the technical name for the major component of the "Financial Bailout Bill" signed by Bush on Oct. 3 2008.

I am pretty sure most people here know that FSD.

:rolleyes:

Keep in mind that there was an additional $110 Billion in provisions added by the Senate before it passed Congress. This caused the original $700 billion TARP to balloon to $810 billion.

... conditions associated with the take over of some of these financial entities.
Hmmm ya kinda got me there I am not aware of what "financial entities" you are referring to.

If you are talking about Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac then there is no "take over" because these were government sponsored enterprises from the get go.

Please enlighten me though.

:confused:
 

Krustee

Banned
Nov 9, 2007
1,567
11
0

Krustee

Banned
Nov 9, 2007
1,567
11
0
Just been watching the news & the latest numbers out of the US show that the job loss stats for this past January are a record high of 626,000 Unemployment Insurance claims just last week!

This is the highest unemployment seen in the US since the Great Depression.

Expected job losses in the future are that this trend will continue.

Last year there were at least 3.6 million jobs lost & that only takes into account those who lost their jobs not those who already were unemployed.

The forecast is that there will be 500,000 jobs lost for February, another 400,000 or so in March & 200,000 April & May.

Job losses in the US are expected to continue until June or July before bottoming out.

Do the math folks & you will see that we are looking at 1,926,000 jobs lost by the middle of this year alone!

Add that to the 3,600,000 last year & we have 5,526,000 jobs lost by the middle of this year!

The question I have is;
With that many job losses in the US ...
how many job losses are we gonna see here?

When America stops buying from Canada who are we gonna sell our goods & services to?

If you have a job now - there is no guarantee that you will have it in the next 6 months!

The repercussions from the US WILL be felt here, no matter how positive you think, the facts are not going to change.

Start saving & make sure you have at least 3 months income in the bank to pay your bills when the wave hits home.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it is better to prepare for the storm than to be swept away with it.

:cool:
 
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blazejowski

Panty Connoisseur
Dec 20, 2004
3,945
143
63
Are you independently wealthy or are you already a pauper?
I would be in that "pauper" category, or as they call it, the "working poor". I've never had an interest in government, politics, finance or business - to be honest, it bores the living crap out of me...
 

jnewton

Loitering on PERB
Aug 9, 2010
378
0
0
This is the highest unemployment seen in the US since the Great Depression.

Last year there were at least 3.6 million jobs lost & that only takes into account those who lost their jobs not those who already were unemployed.
I have seen information that indicates the actual unemployment rate is near 25% in some parts of the USA, on a par with the Great Depression. It took several years after 1929 before the Depression got going in earnest. It seems to me we have already entered a Depression.

Start saving & make sure you have at least 3 months income in the bank to pay your bills when the wave hits home.
The problem is, in a hyperinflation environment, the worth of those savings rapidly depreciates, especially if it is held in fiat money (paper currency).

As for paying down debt, if creditors are not allowed to raise rates on outstanding loans to keep pace with hyperinflation, it makes more sense to pay as little as possible now and wait to pay off until the value of the currency has dropped, thereby making the loan worth less. Simple math, if you have a loan for 10000 and inflation cuts the value of the currency in half, then the 10000 that you use to pay the loan off after inflation is worth only 5000 in pre-inflation money. In effect, you get a loan reduction of 50%.

Lest anyone think this is just crazy talk, this is exactly what several high ranking Democrats in Congress have been talking about for months - inflate the currency, thereby making the debt easier to repay.
 
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lenny

girls just wanna have fu
May 20, 2004
4,101
76
48
your GF's panties
I have seen information that indicates the actual unemployment rate is near 25% in some parts of the USA, on a par with the Great Depression. It took several years after 1929 before the Depression got going in earnest. It seems to me we have already entered a Depression.

Great news. With all the new SP's about to enter the workforce,
bargains galore will be available, general rates should drop 50%,
and service/attitude improve 200%. Compare Thailand, etc
 
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