I need some advice

[jackcb]

I need some advice regarding a job position/Interview that has gone sour.

Basically the Crux of it is, that I applied for an open position and due to the internal hiring process they could not hire me right away, so they requested for the time being that I work for them as a volunteer for one month in the position. It was hinted at that at the end of this month they proceed with a permanent paid position within the organization.

Today I found out that they had no intention of hiring me after my initial interview, and have made a decision on an individual to take over the position when the new season commences. Despite this choice, the lack of communication between the management and the clients prompted the clients to voice their support for my candidacy via a letter campaign. Because of this, and the level of competency and "zeal" for the position that I have demonstrated, the management decided to offer the position to me again, this time I was to work for three months unpaid, provide detailed reports, projections and accounting and undergo evaluations and assessments. Again at the end, a determination regarding full time paid position will be discussed.

So I have to ask...what do i do here?

A huge part of me feels very much used, and that the organization's Management has been completely dishonest and unprofessional, deceitful is the word best describes. Yet here they are, offering me the exact same deal before, except with three months instead of just one. After they lied and cheated me in the first offer, can one really take the second offer?

To be quite honest...the hiring agent behind this appears to be the problem, is it appropriate to include her boss now? After the tactics she played, can I approach her boss and request his inclusion in this?

I know there is alot left being unsaid here, because I'm one trying to shorten a mini-novel of events and details, and two trying to not disclose too much personal information regarding the issue.

 

[chilli]

I guess where I am lost is why do they "feel" they need another 3 months to evaluate your performance for free?

They should pay you for the next 3 months as any reputable profitable company would.

Why are they in such poor financial position that they can't afford to pay you?

Either they are using you or they are incapable of running a profitable company - so which is it?

They've already had their 1 month freebie.

You are being used.

 

[jackcb]

I should also mention that during my month as a volunteer, no evaluations or assessments were made. There was no reviews or reports detailing my performance. I did however compile the reports and accounting that they are now requesting.

When they asked me to volunteer, it appears that there never was any intention to hire me anyways. However it was mentioned that at the end of the month, the decision should be made. The position that I applied for, is aposition that I was recommended to take over from the previous employee. I was their choice for a replacement. However due to the internal process, HR and the management needed to make a public competition for the position as a procedure. Again, I was hinted to that the position would belong to me after my stint as a volunteer.

 

[Validator]

Why would u want to work for a company that treats u/employees like that? What does that say of them, and of any potential for future growth or promotion. They are using use, btw.

 

[visiting]

Jack,

Are you a student?


Never work for free, 1 week ok sure, I understand, Sure there are some places that want you to get trained on your dime, but at least there is a timeline to a job, here your being jerked around, pure and simple.

 

[Trevor2136]

It looks to me like they are trying to make the requiremnts so onerous that you decline the position. That way the answer to the naysayers is that you turned down the job.

From your description, I am confused. You already work for this company and applied for a new job and they have offered it to you on a three month trial basis, provided you work for free. Do I have it right?

Seems odd to me.

Trev.

 

[jeepjeep]

I think the question comes down to is will you be OK if they use you for 3 months and then hire someone else? Because that is a very significant probability based on your experience so far.

If you can survive that and the position is worth that risk, then by all means do it. Three months is not that long in the big scheme of things. If that is something you just couldn't stomach, then confront them now. Make a counter offer you can live with. You have nothing to lose.

If you don't mind tell us more about the job and position. The advice might be a little different if this is a once in a lifetime type job with no other opportunities.

 

[JimDandy]

You seem to be glossing over the fact that they took you on for one month with no pay while, in your words, they had no intention in hiring you. These are false pretences at the very least, and some would describe it as fraud!

As I see it there are 2 possibilities here.

The first is that all or most of senior management was aware of this deception, in which case I can assure you that under no circumstances do you want anything more to do with this company.

The second is that one individual (the hiring manager?) was the only person aware of this deception. If this is the case, I would approach this person's manager and let them know what has happened. If they are horrified and promptly fire this person, or some similar reaction, there may be some hope for this company. If they do not react in manner, again, you want nothing to do with this company.

It's as simple as that.

JD

 

[FunSugarDaddy]

The only advice I can offer is contact the Employment Standard Branch, as I'm reasonably certain this is against the Act.

I'm pretty sure you can't entice someone to act as a voluteer with the promise of some paid position in the future subject to the satisfaction of your services. That strike me as explotation.

Often just the threat of telling them you're going to contact ESB will wake them up, but nevertheless, it wouldn't hurt for you to do so regardless as it would provide you with a full understanding of your rights.

They can be a troublesome agency to deal with and if it turns out your a bonifide employee then there's a whole other issue which could involve CRA with respect to source deductions requirements that could arise, not to mention stat holidays, and possibly overtime.



http://www.labour.gov.bc.ca/esb/

 

[FortunateOne]

Go over her head, present the facts, and make your case. You have the support of clients or someone, otherwise they wouldn't have come back with this 3 month dealio. 3 months paid under probation (easy to let you go without making a reason) is pretty standard, so that isn't unreasonable. If it is normally a paid position, and they would normally pay someone, then it is reasonable for you to expect to get paid for doing it. Whether they offer it to you or you get it permanently after the 3 month probationary period or not, you still need to get paid.

Do you already work for the company in a paid position and this is just extra work you are doing, or you are doing at your current station? It sounds like the work needs to be done, it is getting done, and at a pretty low cost.

If you agree to the 3 month unpaid, make sure it is on condition of regular evaluations and reports so that you have something on file showing your position, your duties and the general feedback of doing a good job, otherwise it will be meaningless just as the previous month has been. In fact, make doing the next 3 months conditional on an evaluation of the past month.

 

[jackcb]

Make them a counteroffer. You work for three months with pay, but on a probationary status.

My thoughts are one more month probationary, with two months with pay, on a signed contract. No verbal agreements anymore.

It looks to me like they are trying to make the requiremnts so onerous that you decline the position. That way the answer to the naysayers is that you turned down the job.

From your description, I am confused. You already work for this company and applied for a new job and they have offered it to you on a three month trial basis, provided you work for free. Do I have it right?

Seems odd to me.

Trev.

I was a client for this company before, when the original "director" of this position chose to leave, she approached me and asked if I would be interested in taking over due to my experience and enthusiasm. In the past I was helping her out with various aspects of the job. So when she left, she offered me her position and applied her recommendation to the management. So i started working for them begining of June, with the agreement that I would work till june 30 once they can get the official process completed and hire me on as a paid member. Because of the short-notice given there was no replacement for the previous director, I offered to cover it for two weeks, and they requested 1 month for free till I can be placed on the payroll.

I am thinking that the manager who has made the offer is intending to make either the next three months difficult, or make me decline the offer. I plan on a counter offer, but I wish to include her superior in these discussions. From all my experiences, I do not trust her, and find everything she has done deceitful. I think the management should know how this person has been representing the organization and how they have proceeded. The offer also needs to be concrete and on paper. She has lied in the past, and cheated before so her word means nothing.

 

[threepeat]

I have a question for the more legal-minded out there... is what the company asking JackCB to do even legal? Back when I was in high school I used to work retail, and when the store cut my hours down I offered to come in for free to show how dedicated I was (what can I say? I was young and stupid). Anyway, my boss more or less said, "don't work for free cause if you get hurt on the job you're not covered." That gets me thinking about Jack's situation. What if say, Jack gets to drive the company car and get in an accident, or if he enters into an agreement with a supplier or customer that turns out to be false and the company gets sued, etc. Is he actually an agent of the company at that point?

I'm thinking the company might be in violation of the provincial labour laws which require you to be paid at least minimum wage. Granted I live in Alberta and the laws could be different, but I bet not by much. The Alberta Government web site lists the following occupations as exempt from minimum wage (http://www.employment.alberta.ca/SFW/5925.html):

•farm or ranch employees whose employment is directly related to the primary production of: eggs, milk, grain, seeds, fruit, vegetables, honey, livestock, game-production animals, poultry, bees or cultured fish;

•securities salespersons registered under the Securities Act;

•real estate broker authorized under the Real Estate Act;

•insurance salespersons paid entirely by commission;

•students in training courses approved by the Director of Employment Standards;

•students in off-campus education programs provided under the School Act;

•students in work experience programs approved by the Minister of Advanced Education and Technology or the Minister of Employment and Immigration;

•counsellors or instructors at non-profit educational or recreational camps for children or disabled persons, or at non-profit religious camps; and

•extras in a film or video production

It doesn't sound like Jack's job is in there.

Jack, for what it's worth, I think you're getting taken for a ride. What's the company going to learn about you in another three months that they didn't learn after the one month, except that you're willing to work for free for three more months?

And you already mentioned she's lied and cheated to you in the past. Do you really want to work for a company like that? When does the lying and cheating end? What if they promise you benefits or insurance that you never get?

I'm guessing this job is one that you really want, otherwise you wouldn't have even gone this far. I would suggest at least calling the BC Labour Relations board and getting some actual legal advice on this before you sign up for three more months. It sounds shady to me.