Drug Use and Pregnancy

[treveller]

I want to add a comment to a closed thread. Sorry if this is against the rules.

Some of the criticism directed at the drug using prospective mom will do more harm than good. She needs support to stop the drug use. Calling her names, villifying her, will make it more difficult for her to look for or accept support.

The goal is harm reduction. If you want to support her and the child you have to start by treating her with respect regardless of the harm she is doing to the child.

It may be easier to treat the mother with respect if we consider the harm we are all doing as we satisfy our own wants and needs. Many women use alcohol or tobacco while pregnant. At the other extreme we are all contributing to the environmental degradation that will leave all our childrehn with a sadly and greatly diminished planet.

Audrey, thanks for raising the question and good luck with your friend.

On the technical side, fetal development is not a uniform process. The effect of the drugs may depend on the timing of the drug use in relation to the fetal development. If you use a particular drug during the few days when a particular system is forming there could be significant harm. The same drug at another time could do far less harm. Life is a crap shoot.

 

[athaire]

I wonder about what you just said......I fail to see how rewarding someone for shitty behavior by coddling them is really going to help anyone involved?

Having had past dealings with family and friends that were involved with drugs/booze I will say I found that once they had taken steps to correct their behavior that your ideas should be put into play.......

I think that respect is earned, and should not be given as currency to try and correct the behavior of another.....



My comments are in no way directed at anyone in particular just responding to a comment that I feel is lacking...

 

[Harmony-bc]

I think using drugs or exessive drinking while you are pregnant is an extremely selfish act and deserves no respect. I don't buy into the whole addiction is a disease and you can get away with anything because you have a disease. However you definitely need support in order to quit or slow down. Yelling or name calling will not help any situation at all. It instantly closes all lines of comunication. Respect is earned when she tries her best to change her life. just my 2 cents.

 

[island-guy]

On the technical side, fetal development is not a uniform process. The effect of the drugs may depend on the timing of the drug use in relation to the fetal development. If you use a particular drug during the few days when a particular system is forming there could be significant harm. The same drug at another time could do far less harm. Life is a crap shoot.

I guess it depends on your definition of 'less harm'. The brain is developing the entire time..

So, if you are saying that just mental retardation instead of mental retardation AND a limp is "far less harm" I guess that's one way of looking at things

If the goal is truely "harm reduction" on society as a whole then the mom should be respectfully, kindly and gently brought to the nearest abortion clinic.

 

[geek]

I wonder about what you just said......I fail to see how rewarding someone for shitty behavior by coddling them is really going to help anyone involved?

Having had past dealings with family and friends that were involved with drugs/booze I will say I found that once they had taken steps to correct their behavior that your ideas should be put into play.......

I think that respect is earned, and should not be given as currency to try and correct the behavior of another.....



My comments are in no way directed at anyone in particular just responding to a comment that I feel is lacking...

if the person you are trying to help does not respect you why should they listen to you. What you have experienced in the past athaire will not necessarily work for others as everybody responds differently. Same for treatments there is no one size fits all solution.

 

[trackstar]

Why???

If this thread was closed and you all are posting on a new one, you know you all are going to be banned, don't you?

 

[Harmony-bc]

Just like any disease, the afflicted is responsible in seeking treatment for the disease. And for some it is the yelling and name calling that has helped them hit bottom and realize what they have become.[/QUOTE]

I think it is a disease, yes, I just don't think its an excuse. If you have a serious problem, all the name calling and screaming won't change a thing. I've been through scenerios with friends, they quit when they've had enough, which is by hitting a bottom. I'd say if they quit just cause I yelled at them, then they didn't have much of a problem. lol. This industry has taken a lot of good girls down. Friends that I've worked with in some pretty classy places, you can find dt eastside now, sad.

 

[susi]

With all of the information emerging about the symptoms of PTSD, addiction as a coping mechanism or form of self harm and the dangers associated with interrupting people’s coping mechanisms, it’s difficult to find ways to ensure no harm within abstinence based environments. “Get clean” or off of drugs to receive support policies are compounding emotional harm for trauma survivors and are in direct conflict with the recommended treatment for such injuries. If you interrupt a person’s coping mechanisms before they are ready to deal with their injuries, their emotional stability becomes at risk, their symptoms could escalate and at the very least their recovery will be seriously impeded.
that is no good for mama or baby.

Some programs have found a way to by pass abstinence based approaches by including treatment of “relapse”. Instead of cutting off support because a person has relapsed into addiction and “used” or "shaming" them as weak or bad, the reasons for the relapse are examined and addressed. New coping strategies and alternatives to self harm can be implemented/ suggested and over time these will help to limit exposure to emotionally triggering environments preventing or at least lessening future relapses.

So, yes “get clean” but with attention to relapse.


There is a tendency to blame the victim in these situations. A person who has been abused repeatedly is sometimes mistaken as someone who has a "weak character." Because of their chronic victimization, in the past, survivors have been misdiagnosed by mental health providers as having borderline, dependent, or masochistic personality disorder. When survivors are faulted for the symptoms they experience as a result of victimization, they are being unjustly blamed.

there's lots of useful info online about this.

love susieXXXO

 

[athaire]

if the person you are trying to help does not respect you why should they listen to you. What you have experienced in the past athaire will not necessarily work for others as everybody responds differently. Same for treatments there is no one size fits all solution.

Unsure what your talking about here dude..... I offered no ideas as to how to deal with anyone's problems nor did I go into detail about my own experiences....

I agree that if there is no respect from the person you seek to help there will be no chance of even reaching that person on a basic level. But the comment I made was directed at showing respect to someone currently using as a way of trying to change their behavior, not if the one using had respect for myself or others.

I have learned the hard way that trying to reach out to someone so enveloped in their own lifestyle choices is futile again and again......I do not often even try as I usually do not involve myself in situations where I will be overwhelmed with negative reactions or emotions......I realized why one more time this afternoon.......

If this thread was closed and you all are posting on a new one, you know you all are going to be banned, don't you?

Ummmmm.......not if the Original Poster in the thread was the one to close it. I don't believe that the Mods closed that thread, but the thread author did so in an attempt to stop discussions about the topic.....this was opened to allow further discussions.....

 

[bcneil]

Ummmmm.......not if the Original Poster in the thread was the one to close it. I don't believe that the Mods closed that thread, but the thread author did so in an attempt to stop discussions about the topic.....this was opened to allow further discussions.....

Thats what I thought? There was no final message by the mods warning us not to make a new thread or anything. since i was the last poster in the old thread I thought i did something bad

 

[treveller]

I looked for info on closing a thread and couldn't find any so I took a chance.

Treating someone with respect has nothing to do with condoning their behaviour.

Treating a person with respect is a necessary prerequisite if you want that person to listen to you for more than ten seconds. It is your only hope for changing their behaviour short of locking them away.

If you harass and abuse the person or try to drive them to rock bottom it can be expected that you will have no success changing their behaviour.

Insite has the right idea. Our Conservative government has the wrong idea.

 

[melissa.in.abby]

Our Conservative government has the wrong idea.

I agree with that statement whole-heartedly

 

[athaire]

I looked for info on closing a thread and couldn't find any so I took a chance.

Treating someone with respect has nothing to do with condoning their behaviour.

Treating a person with respect is a necessary prerequisite if you want that person to listen to you for more than ten seconds. It is your only hope for changing their behaviour short of locking them away.

If you harass and abuse the person or try to drive them to rock bottom it can be expected that you will have no success changing their behaviour.

Insite has the right idea. Our Conservative government has the wrong idea.

I wonder are you confusing compassion with respect? I don't respect anyone that would abuse their bodies and the body of their unborn child....though I do feel compassion for someone that is sooooo addicted that they cannot stop even if it is to save a life.....

 

[treveller]

Drug Abuse

athaire's comments may support what I am trying to say.

"I wonder are you confusing compassion with respect?" I may be confusing compasion and respect but more likely you need to show both if you are going to pursuade a pregnant woman to stop using harmful drugs.

I would also make a distinction between sincerly feeling respect and compassion on the one hand and on the other hand treating a person with respect and compassion when what you really feel is contempt for them and their destructive behaviour. Faking respect and compassion is extremely difficult but if your contempt shows in any way you have no chance of influencing the other person.

athaire says "I don't respect anyone that would abuse their bodies and the body of their unborn child...." and "I have learned the hard way that trying to reach out to someone so enveloped in their own lifestyle choices is futile again and again". I admire athaire for trying but without demonstrating both compassion and respect, success would be unlikely.

Keeping in mind that I do not equate compassion and respect with any sort of indulgence or acceptance of destructive behaviour. Tricky distinctions but no one said dealing with drug abuse, yours or someone elses, is easy.

 

[Miss*Bijou]

Keeping in mind that I do not equate compassion and respect with any sort of indulgence or acceptance of destructive behaviour. Tricky distinctions but no one said dealing with drug abuse, yours or someone elses, is easy.

I agree with you and I think that is something that is very hard for a lot of people to do in many situations, not just this one. To separate your feelings about the person from you feelings about this person's behavior, is not something that is easy to do. We tend to determine how we feel about someone based on our disapproval of her behavior. Nothing stops us from doing it, but we can't expect positive change to come from it or for the person to be inclined to accept our help, if she/he clearly knows that our willingness to offer it is conditional (our conditions!). One person is more than one behavior, and if we are not able to acknowledge that, there is little help we can give. It cannot be about how you feel about the behavior, but how you genuinely feel about the person regardless of the behavior. It doesn't mean condoning or approving of their destructive behavior, it means choosing to have our feelings about their behavior not have any relation to our feeling about them and our willingness to help. It is about being open to what kind of help this person feels she needs, not about imposing the kind of help you feel she needs... because that will never work.


I can even use our occupation as an example. There are many people who know what I do, and do not agree or approve of my doing it. There are some who most definitely feel it is destructive behavior on my part. It would be very easy for many of them to allow the feelings they have about my work and why I do it, reflect on the way they feel about me. How many people do that? Lots.. It's easier to look down on someone and feel contempt for someone like me because of how strongly they may disapprove of my behavior. Does that help? Will I have any interest in listening to what they have to say? If for some reason or another, one day it's time for me to get out of this business and feel I need support, am I likely to go to someone who feels they can decide what kind of help I need, and are not open to hearing what I think I need or want that I feel will help? Someone who bases their feelings about me on how they feel about my behavior/occupation... or someone who has always made the distinction that both are separate?


By letting judgments and feelings about their behavior affect or determine your feelings about them, there is no way you can actually help. People can feel that, it's really easy to see through someone trying to pretend.. and put yourself in their shoes, if something was going on in your life, would you really want someone who feels contempt for you to be the one to help? What kind of person would you be looking to for help, or even willing to listen to or trust? The person who knows what's best for you, or the person who lets you figure that out on your terms, but with their unconditional help and support?


Just my 2cents..