Asian Fever

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! AGAIN.

80watts

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Despite all the training, and money spent on Afghan troops, they were probably betrayed by their fellow soldiers, who were 5th column guys for the Taliban. The only thing accomplished in the time the Americans were there, was the opening of Heroin pipelines back to the states. Now that the Taliban are gonna be in power again, expect to see Heroin come flooding into the states, through connections made Afghanistan by US troops.
Expect terrorism to rise in Europe due to funding by drugs.
Expect some of the people brought back from Afghanistan to be 5th column troops for the Taliban.
To really of made a difference, the Americans would of had to stay in Afghanistan for 2 generations. And created a strong economy and educational system. When polical parties in the USA changes, so does foreign affairs. The history of the US pulling out on countries is at 100%, and the people ended up hating the Americans. Wonder why?
 

steverino

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Feb 15, 2004
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The final score: Taliban 2----US and Soviets----0
 

rlock

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May 20, 2015
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The US couldn't stay forever - closing in on 20 years was enough. If the US lost this war, it was really near the beginning, when Bush took their attention away from fighting Al Qaida and killing Bin Laden, in order to invade Iraq (and act which destroyed any public goodwill the Muslim world might have given them re: Afghanistan). The Saudis and Pakistanis never stopped undermining NATO's efforts there, and US leaders did a lot of things (besides just Iraq) to undermine the Afghan government's sovereignty and credibility.

Countries like Canada who contributed honourable and honest effort there must have known that this day would come, when all our efforts would be for nothing basically.

I don't think it was lack of capability in the Afghan National Army, so much as a morale thing. Afghans are not cowards; they are used to fighting people (foreigners, each other - there hasn't been peace there since the mid 1970's.) Every Afghan who might have stood against the Taliban asks himself two things:
1) Are my comrades going to stand up or leave me to die?" and 2) "Is this Afghan government worth dying for?" You get a negative answer for both, and the result is a rapid collapse. A very similar thing happened with the Iraqi army versus ISIS.
Foreign firepower was always on the Afghan solders' side before, but losing that shakes the confidence in official institutions, which was already pretty low. Fighting for their sects, or clans, or their local warlord bro, they can grind it out for years - but they're willing to do that because these are people they know. Nobody is going to fight for things like "rule of law" and "an impartial democratic framework".

I can also point out that the Taliban (and other jihadi insurgents) seem to be great at attacking, but that's always the way of it - They're fanatical nutters, so that covers their "morale" question as long as they're winning.

It's easier to destroy than create, to attack a place rather than rule & defend it. Those who rule can't just disappear into the hills whenever things get tough. They have to be present at all times, but this means they will always be a target that can always be identified, undermined, and attacked.

Now the Taliban and whatever Al Qaida calls itself these days will rule Afghanistan again. If one insurgency can succeed, then why not another? The difference in ruling style is that the Taliban are not held back by ideas of rules or human rights - they will rule by fear and blood, until people get sick enough of them to wage yet more civil war and bring them down. If the west is smart, they'll leave but still wait for the opportunity to expose & exploit the fact that many people in Afghanistan hate the Taliban and their foreign (Saudi & Pakistani) masters. Okay, maybe the USA is not smart enough to play that game, but countries like Russia, China, Iran, and India might be. They all have a stake in what goes on there, as much or more than the US & NATO ever did.
 

Mrmotorscooter

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In the end these wars made huge profits for the Military industrial complex foreign and domestic, also Military contractors, seems the only secure major industry left to buoy the US economy. All the lives lost are just the cost of doing business in those boardrooms
 

BigCgaijin

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Jun 19, 2017
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It would have been better to take every female out of that country, build a huge wall around it, then no one get's in and no one out. Then look in in 10 years to see who's left....
 

Mrmotorscooter

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The issue that has come up is why did all those Afghan soldiers not put up a real fight, they have been trained for years and have all that equipment? A report said that it was quite common for them to just switch sides as it’s much easier on them, the place is still a tribal culture that just won’t change. Its a bottomless pit and has outlasted and defeated all Armies, before now it bankrupted the Russians, the West is better off to just cut its losses and bail. I’m sure new conflicts will be emerging shortly like the South China Sea!
 

Mrmotorscooter

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Counting the costs of America’s 20-year war in Afghanistan
FILE - In this Oct. 27, 2013 file photo, relatives surround the body of a 10-year-old Afghan girl who was killed by a roadside bomb, apparently targeting a group of soldiers, during her funeral on the outskirts of Kabul, Afghanistan. America’s longest war, the two-decade-long conflict in Afghanistan that started in the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, killed tens of thousands of people, dogged four U.S. presidents and ultimately proved unwinnable despite its staggering cost in blood and treasure. (AP Photo/Rahmat Gul, File)

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — America’s longest war, the two-decade-long conflict in Afghanistan that started in the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, killed tens of thousands of people, dogged four U.S. presidents and ultimately proved unwinnable despite its staggering cost in blood and treasure.

This final chapter, with President Joe Biden’s decision to pull all American troops from Afghanistan by the 20th anniversary of the terrorist attacks, has prompted a reckoning over the war’s lost lives and colossal expenditure.

Here’s a look at the spiraling cost of America’s campaign — the bloodshed, wasted funds and future consequences for the war-battered nation teetering on the brink of chaos.

THE COST IN LIVES

Afghans have paid the highest price. Since 2001, at least 47,245 civilians have been killed in the war as of mid-April, according to the Costs of War project at Brown University, which documents the hidden costs of the post-9/11 wars.

Gun and bomb attacks targeting civilians surged to previously unseen heights since the intra-Afghan peace negotiations opened in Qatar last fall, according to the U.N. Watchdogs say the conflict has killed a total of 72 journalists and 444 aid workers.

The Afghan government keeps the toll among its soldiers secret to avoid undermining morale, but Costs of War estimates the war has killed 66,000 to 69,000 Afghan troops.

The war has forced 2.7 million Afghans to flee abroad, mostly to Iran, Pakistan and Europe, the U.N. said. Another 4 million are displaced within the country, which has a total population of 36 million.

Meanwhile, 2,442 U.S. troops have been killed and 20,666 wounded in the war since 2001, according to the Defense Department. It’s estimated that over 3,800 U.S. private security contractors have been killed. The Pentagon does not track their deaths.

The conflict also has killed 1,144 personnel from the 40-nation NATO coalition that trained Afghan forces over the years, according to a tally kept by the website iCasualties. The remaining 7,000 allied troops also will withdraw by Biden’s 9/11 deadline.

THE COST IN DOLLARS

The U.S. has spent a stunning total of $2.26 trillion on a dizzying array of expenses, according to the Costs of War project.

The Defense Department’s latest 2020 report said war-fighting costs totaled $815.7 billion over the years. That covers the operating costs of the U.S. military in Afghanistan, everything from fuel and food to Humvees, weapons and ammunition, from tanks and armored vehicles to aircraft carriers and airstrikes.

Although America first invaded to retaliate against al-Qaida and rout its hosts, the Taliban, the U.S. and NATO soon pivoted to a more open-ended mission: nation-building on a massive scale.

Washington has poured over $143 billion into that goal since 2002, according to the latest figures from the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction (SIGAR).

Of that, $88 billion went to training, equipping and funding Afghan military and police forces. Another $36 billion was spent on reconstruction projects, education and infrastructure like dams and highways, the SIGAR report said. Another $4.1 billion has gone to humanitarian aid for refugees and disasters. The campaign to deter Afghans from selling heroin around the world cost over $9 billion.

Unlike with other conflicts in American history, the U.S. borrowed heavily to fund the war in Afghanistan and has paid some $530 billion in interest. It has also paid $296 billion in medical and other care for veterans, according to Costs of War. It will continue to pay both those expenses for years to come.

FOLLOWING THE MONEY

Much of the billions lavished on huge infrastructure projects went to waste, the U.S. inspector general discovered. Canals, dams and highways fell into disrepair, as Afghanistan failed to absorb the flood of aid. Newly built hospitals and schools stood empty. Without proper oversight, the U.S. money bred corruption that undermined government legitimacy.

Despite the costly counternarcotics campaign, opium exports reached record heights. Despite the billions in weapons and training to Afghan security forces, the Taliban increased the amount of territory they control. Despite vast spending on job creation and welfare, unemployment hovers around 25%. The poverty rate has fluctuated over the years, reaching 47% through 2020, according to the World Bank, compared to 36% when the fund first began calculating in 2007.

“We invested too much with too little to show for it,” said Michael Wahid Hanna, a senior fellow at the Washington-based Century Foundation.

THE COST OF LEAVING

Although few want to prolong the war interminably, many fear its final end may jeopardize Afghanistan’s modest gains in health, education and women’s rights, made in the early years as the U.S. expanded the economy and toppled the Taliban, which had imposed tough strictures on women.

Since 2001, life expectancy has increased to 64 years from 56, the World Bank says. Maternal mortality has more than halved. Opportunities for education have grown, with the literacy rate rising 8% to roughly 43%. Life in cities has improved, with 89% of residents having access to clean water, compared to 16% before the war.

Child marriage has declined by 17%, according to U.N. data. Girls’ enrollment in primary school has nearly doubled, and more women have entered college and served in Parliament. These figures still pale compared with global standards.

But more broadly, the failure of America’s ambitions to build a stable, democratic Afghanistan has left the country mired in uncertainty as U.S. forces leave. The nation’s history tells of civil war that follows foreign invasions and withdrawals.

“For better or worse, the U.S. has a serious stabilizing presence right now, and once that’s gone there’s going to be a power vacuum,” said Michael Callen, an Afghanistan economy expert at the London School of Economics. “In the 20 years’ war, there’s going to be a whole lot of scores that need to be settled.”
 
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peteinbc

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Countries like Canada who contributed honourable and honest effort there must have known that this day would come, when all our efforts would be for nothing basically.
Canada and a lot of countries did not go there voluntarily. Chretian hated Bush, Germany had never sent forces outside Germany since 1945 until Afghanistan, and who can forget 'Freedom' Fries because the French called BS on the whole thing. But soldiers died there from these and ALL the other NATO countries went there because USA invoked article 5 of NATO agreement. The all for one clause that Trump threatened USA would not honour. Nice way of saying thanks I thought at the time.
 

80watts

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The Afghans were given a taste of freedom, they will see how much worse it will be in Taliban controlled areas. Don't be surprised when you see women fighting back.

As for Canada going over there, it was the right thing to do. Canadians were there from the start and got more involved when the Conservatives were elected and a certain general said "you can't send us over there unless we get proper equipment". Failure of the Liberals and cutbacks to keep the Canadian Forces modern.
 

westwoody

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Don’t blame equipment shortcomings on any single party. It has been a big problem since forever.

Both major parties have used military equipment as a patronage trough.
Both major parties have issued crap kit sourced from dodgy suppliers.
Both major parties have completely dropped the ball on large programs by micromanaging and indecision.

I had a course on the TOW anti tank weapon once, but we weren’t allowed to actually fire one because they cost too much money! So a Russian tank comes at me and I’m supposed to kill it with this thing I’ve only been allowed to look at but never take out of it’s case.

Don’t bash Canada’s military unless you are willing to pay a lot more taxes.
 
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westwoody

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Afghan disasters go back to Alexander the Great.
But it can’t be allowed to be a safe haven for terrorists and drug traffickers.
That’s the dilemma.
 

licks2nite

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Nov 30, 2006
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How the other side spin the story:

summary of the key Taliban statements, here (in Russian) is a very detailed roundup.

These are the key takeaways.

No problem for women to get education all the way to college, and to continue to work. They just need to wear the hijab (like in Qatar or Iran). No need to wear a burqa. The Taliban insist, “all women’s rights will be guaranteed within the limits of Islamic law.”

The Islamic Emirate “does not threaten anyone” and will not treat anyone as enemies. Crucially, revenge – an essential plank of the Pashtunwali code – will be abandoned, and that’s unprecedented. There will be a general amnesty – including people who worked for the former NATO-aligned system. Translators, for instance, won’t be harassed, and don’t need to leave the country.

Security of foreign embassies and international organizations “is a priority.” Taliban special security forces will protect both those leaving Afghanistan and those who remain.

A strong inclusive Islamic government will be formed. “Inclusive” is code for the participation of women and Shi’ites.

Foreign media will continue to work undisturbed. The Taliban government will allow public criticism and debate. But “freedom of speech in Afghanistan must be in line with Islamic values.”

The Islamic Emirate of Taliban wants recognition from the “international community” – code for NATO. The overwhelming majority of Eurasia and the Global South will recognize it anyway. It’s essential to note, for example, the closer integration of the expanding SCO – Iran is about to become a full member, Afghanistan is an observer – with ASEAN: the absolute majority of Asia will not shun the Taliban.

https://www.unz.com/pescobar/how-russia-china-are-stage-managing-the-taliban/
 

sybian

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Dec 23, 2014
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How the other side spin the story:

summary of the key Taliban statements, here (in Russian) is a very detailed roundup.

These are the key takeaways.

No problem for women to get education all the way to college, and to continue to work. They just need to wear the hijab (like in Qatar or Iran). No need to wear a burqa. The Taliban insist, “all women’s rights will be guaranteed within the limits of Islamic law.”

The Islamic Emirate “does not threaten anyone” and will not treat anyone as enemies. Crucially, revenge – an essential plank of the Pashtunwali code – will be abandoned, and that’s unprecedented. There will be a general amnesty – including people who worked for the former NATO-aligned system. Translators, for instance, won’t be harassed, and don’t need to leave the country.

Security of foreign embassies and international organizations “is a priority.” Taliban special security forces will protect both those leaving Afghanistan and those who remain.

A strong inclusive Islamic government will be formed. “Inclusive” is code for the participation of women and Shi’ites.

Foreign media will continue to work undisturbed. The Taliban government will allow public criticism and debate. But “freedom of speech in Afghanistan must be in line with Islamic values.”

The Islamic Emirate of Taliban wants recognition from the “international community” – code for NATO. The overwhelming majority of Eurasia and the Global South will recognize it anyway. It’s essential to note, for example, the closer integration of the expanding SCO – Iran is about to become a full member, Afghanistan is an observer – with ASEAN: the absolute majority of Asia will not shun the Taliban.



……..coming from the very people who strapped explosives to five year old children and sent them towards caravans.
Or raped women in the streets , after killing their children in front of them, only to cut the rape victims head off just to prove a point of absolute terror….the only good Taliban is a freaking dead one…
 
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westwoody

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No problem for women to get education all the way to college
Taliban engage in mass rape as a weapon n of war and sell women to each other, their leaders reward subordinates with a woman sex slave, and take women as forced wives to serve their fighters.
The Islamic Emirate “does not threaten anyone” and will not treat anyone as enemies
Iran- no slouch in the religious fanatic department themselves - consider the Taliban dangerously fanatical. Think about that. Iran sent a diplomatic mission to Afghanistan once and the Taliban killed them all.
revenge – an essential plank of the Pashtunwali code – will be abandoned, and that’s unprecedented. There will be a general amnesty – including people who worked for the former NATO-aligned system.
Taliban are going to addresses of former nato workers and taking families hostage to force ex workers to turn themselves in. Sometimes they are killing for fun, as they often do.

“freedom of speech in Afghanistan must be in line with Islamic values.”
Freedom of speech to say what the Taliban will let you say...that is NOT freedom of speech.

China and Russia will recognize Taliban just to annoy USA. Pakistan, being major backers of the Taliban will recognise them. Most neighbours will not be happy whatever they say publically. Afghanistan has been a safe haven for terrorists who kill all over the area.
Remember the Taliban feel no obligation to keep any promise. They feel their religion excuses any crime, they have no problem murdering innocents, grabbing women off the streets to rape and torture,or violating signed agreements. They literally have no honour or integrity. None.
 
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overdone

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Why can't the people in power learn from history ?

This situation is like Vietnam all over again.
why can't they learn from the present? reality? truth?

but we keep enabling them, bringing them in, Islamists into the west

it's an ideology, not a race, just like the Nazis were, fascist were, commies in China are

they polled Afghans, while the US/Coalition forces were there, Taliban wasn't in power

google Sharia on twitter, do it, listen to the truth, actual supposed "peaceful" Hijab, Niquab, Burka wearing Terrorist sympathizers, like the one's Trudeau and the rest of our societies leaders, media, SJW's are enabling, encouraging, bringing into the country by the thousands, hundreds of thousands


here's more of the same from the other so called "peaceful" Islamist Muslims, ordinary Muslims

 
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