Congress to start TRUMP impeachment process
- Thread starter 80watts
- Start date
- Status
I respect other people having an opinion and debating how they see the world. There is just so much wrong with this type of thinking, it's difficult to decide where to start.
First off, there will never be a peace settlement with the Kurds and Turks. They have been natural enemies for over a hundred years based upon how the middle east was cut up. The Kurds are like Palestinians where they do not have there own country. They are natural enemies with Turkey because Turkey wants the land vacated suddenly by #45. So much for trusting a country that's had their back for years.
When did Russia become the defacto peace keeper in the region? They backed Assad while he was gassing Syrians and now will have the dominant position in this area north of Iraq's oil fields. I am sure Rex Tillerson is shouting FUCKING MORON while talking about #45 now. Like it or not, America is dependent on "other countries oil" as they want to import all they can from Canada, Gulf States etc BEFORE tapping into their own reserves.
The next wave with be Iran asserting itself into Syria. More so than just the terrorists group Hezbollah. This will bring other players in the area directly into the fight - UK, France, China etc. They all want to protect their continued source of crude oil.
By ceding Syria to Russia, it has become clear who #45's master is and even his own GOP caucus are up in arms about this fucked up move. Years ago when discussing Viet Nam the "domino theory" was the main reason for staying in SE Asia. I think its more relevant today with the domino being - Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq on the way to Saudi and the rest of the Gulf States
I am actually glad #45 pulled this idiot move. Now a lot more GOP Senators will be thinking twice before NOT supporting #45's Impeachment Removal.
This is a pivotal time in world history. It's not just a bunch of sand in Northern Syria.
Here is the letter from the leader of the White House Crime Family to Erdogan as broadcast today. How Presidential.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/16/trump-letter-erdogan-turkey-invasion
That's quite the spin. And yet Turkey's attacks have resulted in the release of reportedly around 1000 "Daesh" (ISIS) captives, and the Kurds were, according to US Military personnel in the area respecting all incursion restrictions and safe zone requirements demanded by Turkey. This attack was unwarranted and ill advised.
And how exactly is withdrawing soldiers from Syria and deploying them to Saudi Arabia "about the U.S. getting out of their Middle East dependency on oil"?
I've seen some mental gymnastics from Trump supporters before but this one would give Simone Biles a run for her money.
The leading text in this post is from the linked article.
Whenever neoconservatives and liberals chant in unison about American policy in the Middle East — as when they championed the Iraq invasion, for example, or the overthrow of Colonel Gaddafi in Libya, or the thwarted attempt to topple the Assad regime in Syria — it means we are being told a pack of lies. Par for the course is the hysterical response to President Donald Trump’s ‘betrayal’ of the Kurds in the wake of Turkey’s invasion of northern Syria.
Turkey’s goal was to repatriate at least two million of 3.6 million Syrian refugees inside Turkey in a border zone controlled, until the invasion began, by the US-allied, Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces. Ankara considers that group to be an extension of the Kurdistan Workers’ party (PKK), which is also active in the region, has committed countless atrocities inside Turkey and is designated as a terrorist organization by Turkey and America.
Since Turkey was never going to back down, Middle East pundits appeared to be arguing that Trump should actually have risked going to war with a fellow Nato member that houses American nuclear weapons at its Incirlik Air Base. Worse, this would have been in defense of the Kurds, with whom the US has no defense treaty and whose ad hoc alliance with the US in Syria was formed with the explicit and limited goal of fighting the now defeated Islamic State. Going into battle against the Turks would also, of course, have meant betraying a historic ally, not to mention potentially causing the outbreak of a third world war.
https://spectator.us/pulling-troops-syr ... -decision/
So are some of you on here arguing that we SHOULD go to war against a NATO ally..no matter how treacherous they are, which has American nuclear weapons on its soil to defend a homeless nomadic muslim group which may not be the angelic actors they are portrayed as in the media and we have no agreement with and potentially begin world war 3? Couldnt the previous administration which arranged this alliance of convenience guess that as the Syrian conflict rolled to a close the revival of emnity between these two deadly enemies would return to the fore?
Can in the long term Trump or anyone justify putting American lives at risk and drawing the US deeper into yet another never ending Middle Eastern conflict which will never resolve itself?
Abandoning the Kurds may not be the most popular decision but perhaps in the name of world security it unfortunately may be the best one to avoid drawing the world into a wider conflict.
I would also say that the US is not ceding Syria to Russia BBB. They have been long time committed allies and nothing is likely to break that bond . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia–Syria_relations
Whenever neoconservatives and liberals chant in unison about American policy in the Middle East — as when they championed the Iraq invasion, for example, or the overthrow of Colonel Gaddafi in Libya, or the thwarted attempt to topple the Assad regime in Syria — it means we are being told a pack of lies. Par for the course is the hysterical response to President Donald Trump’s ‘betrayal’ of the Kurds in the wake of Turkey’s invasion of northern Syria.
Turkey’s goal was to repatriate at least two million of 3.6 million Syrian refugees inside Turkey in a border zone controlled, until the invasion began, by the US-allied, Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces. Ankara considers that group to be an extension of the Kurdistan Workers’ party (PKK), which is also active in the region, has committed countless atrocities inside Turkey and is designated as a terrorist organization by Turkey and America.
Since Turkey was never going to back down, Middle East pundits appeared to be arguing that Trump should actually have risked going to war with a fellow Nato member that houses American nuclear weapons at its Incirlik Air Base. Worse, this would have been in defense of the Kurds, with whom the US has no defense treaty and whose ad hoc alliance with the US in Syria was formed with the explicit and limited goal of fighting the now defeated Islamic State. Going into battle against the Turks would also, of course, have meant betraying a historic ally, not to mention potentially causing the outbreak of a third world war.
https://spectator.us/pulling-troops-syr ... -decision/
So are some of you on here arguing that we SHOULD go to war against a NATO ally..no matter how treacherous they are, which has American nuclear weapons on its soil to defend a homeless nomadic muslim group which may not be the angelic actors they are portrayed as in the media and we have no agreement with and potentially begin world war 3? Couldnt the previous administration which arranged this alliance of convenience guess that as the Syrian conflict rolled to a close the revival of emnity between these two deadly enemies would return to the fore?
Can in the long term Trump or anyone justify putting American lives at risk and drawing the US deeper into yet another never ending Middle Eastern conflict which will never resolve itself?
Abandoning the Kurds may not be the most popular decision but perhaps in the name of world security it unfortunately may be the best one to avoid drawing the world into a wider conflict.
I would also say that the US is not ceding Syria to Russia BBB. They have been long time committed allies and nothing is likely to break that bond . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia–Syria_relations
Last edited:
Killing 1M Kurds would be the largest genocide of a land locked group of Sunni Muslims in the past 50 years. Let that sink in.,
One thing that bothers me is how many people normalize Putin like he’s some sort of good guy. Russia has been the natural enemy since 1945. They were active in the 2016 election with several GRU operatives charged by Mueller. The guy is a thug, having hit squads against political enemies, sending hit squads to the UK to kill journalists who wrote the truth about his regime. Not to mention the corruption and his own financial gain as a result of his Presidency.
The US had 1000 troops mainly special ops who were directing the Kurds on the ISIS movements. There was no reason for #45 to pull them out. It isn’t supported by his own GOP nor the Senate nor the Congress. This was something between him and Putin not part of the Republicans doctrine.
So you want us to go to war with Turkey then? If Turkey attacks all those American troops are in harms way and American deaths will occur. Diplomacy was not an option with Erdogan. He was already prepared for this. Thats no reason to pull the troops out?
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/erdogan-threw-trump-letter-trash-123420830.html
And would Russia not be more of a beneficiary with two NATO allies clashing... causing a huge rupture in the focal alliance dedicated to halting their expansion than if the Americans left? Putin could just sit back and laugh.
Does the US need to be drawn into yet another complex never ending Middle East dispute? The Kurds will probably find allies in the Russians and Syrian government to prevent any genocide and its unfortunate they have to be drawn into their camp but its not really Trumps fault that a previous administration put him in this position.
Almost nobody in North America understands the Middle East, the dynamics at play both internally and externally, and the international interference that has molded the area.
I have lived, worked and visited in various parts, and have some understanding of the thinking, the fears and the ambitions of people in some of the states.
Needless to say, most give a rat’s ass about how the international community perceive them, and most have ambitions beyond their borders due to historical and tribal connections, and ambitions for security, or desire for natural resources.
The interference from (primarily) Britain and the US, has blocked, emboldened, frustrated, infuriated and intentionally divided areas for hundreds of years. Subjugation was the only way to control tribal grudges, and that has been transferred from colonialists, to modern despots. It’s about the only way to rule in these areas.
The US has no place in the Middle East any more, and are wise to stay out. They don’t want to be there any more, but have felt the need due to Russia’s, and increasingly, China’s influence.
At this point, keeping an active, visible force in the area serves no purpose. The PKK has sealed their fate with decades long terrorist attacks in Turkey. The alliance against ISIS was always going to be temporary, and the spin on the bravery and nobleness of the Kurds, was just that, spin.
The Kurds are basically surrounded, with Syrians on one side, and Turkey on the other. Unless an area can be negotiated as an autonomous Kurdish homeland (unlikely) the fighting in this area will never end. There is a slight hope that an area of northern Iraq could become a new Kurdistan homeland, but that won’t appease either Erdogan, or Assad.
Assad has allied with Russia, Turkey, as part of NATO has allied with the US. Those alliances are stronger than any loyalty towards Kurds for the US, so the US should stay out of the conflicts, as they always should have.
Trump was right to pull US troops out, as unpopular as it is currently being portrayed.
I have lived, worked and visited in various parts, and have some understanding of the thinking, the fears and the ambitions of people in some of the states.
Needless to say, most give a rat’s ass about how the international community perceive them, and most have ambitions beyond their borders due to historical and tribal connections, and ambitions for security, or desire for natural resources.
The interference from (primarily) Britain and the US, has blocked, emboldened, frustrated, infuriated and intentionally divided areas for hundreds of years. Subjugation was the only way to control tribal grudges, and that has been transferred from colonialists, to modern despots. It’s about the only way to rule in these areas.
The US has no place in the Middle East any more, and are wise to stay out. They don’t want to be there any more, but have felt the need due to Russia’s, and increasingly, China’s influence.
At this point, keeping an active, visible force in the area serves no purpose. The PKK has sealed their fate with decades long terrorist attacks in Turkey. The alliance against ISIS was always going to be temporary, and the spin on the bravery and nobleness of the Kurds, was just that, spin.
The Kurds are basically surrounded, with Syrians on one side, and Turkey on the other. Unless an area can be negotiated as an autonomous Kurdish homeland (unlikely) the fighting in this area will never end. There is a slight hope that an area of northern Iraq could become a new Kurdistan homeland, but that won’t appease either Erdogan, or Assad.
Assad has allied with Russia, Turkey, as part of NATO has allied with the US. Those alliances are stronger than any loyalty towards Kurds for the US, so the US should stay out of the conflicts, as they always should have.
Trump was right to pull US troops out, as unpopular as it is currently being portrayed.
Well, Trump just sent a peace party to Turkey so... guess he's pretty wishy washy on the issue since its a political hot potato. too late now!
gotta love the justification gymnastics going on though... Kurds are our allies! Kurds aren't our allies! Russia is an aggressor! Russian is not an aggressor! Vlad is thug! But he's actually a great guy!
gotta love the justification gymnastics going on though... Kurds are our allies! Kurds aren't our allies! Russia is an aggressor! Russian is not an aggressor! Vlad is thug! But he's actually a great guy!
I watched his news conference and he was totally unapologetic about Quid Pro Quo. Stated "of course we use quid pro quo, that's how diplomacy gets done".
What I found interesting is he couldn't answer properly the question "if there wasn't anything wrong with what happened, why was it moved to a secure server?"
Unfrikenbelievable.
i'd propose that there is some method to this madness... the rats are abandoning the ship. the last thing Trump wants is all the rats testifying and the constant drip drip of bad news. if he's feeling confident with senate support then "fuck it, i'm guilty but impeachment is only 51% popular right now" but growing. get articles of impeachment to the senate now.
i find the timing of the whole Syrian thing a bit suspicious though... once the Ukrainian thing started to blow then Vlad was like "better clean up what i can out of this clown" and made the call to Erdogan "time to make that phone call, we move now", while chuckling obviously.
i find the timing of the whole Syrian thing a bit suspicious though... once the Ukrainian thing started to blow then Vlad was like "better clean up what i can out of this clown" and made the call to Erdogan "time to make that phone call, we move now", while chuckling obviously.
the Nobel peace prize if finally in Trumps grasp.
"Don't be a tough guy! Don't be a fool!" pure genius.
Last edited:
Not according to the Turkish Foreign Minister.
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/operation-peace-spring/pause-of-turkeys-op-in-syria-not-cease-fire/1617712
Except "digging up dirt on your political rivals" doesn't fall under the definition of diplomacy.
In the three years of Trump as president, the M.O. has always been the same: bob and weave so fast that the critics can't keep up.
- Status
