Arab Spring nations don't yet grasp freedom of dissent (CNN)
- Thread starter tokugawa
- Start date
RinTin that's not Saudi TV that's a satellite music channel.
Here's a good one for you Anita
Arkansas Legislative Candidate, Endorses Death Penalty For Rebellious Children
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/08/charlie-fuqua-arkansas-candidate-death-penalty-rebellious-children_n_1948490.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/08/charlie-fuqua-arkansas-candidate-death-penalty-rebellious-children_n_1948490.html
Arkansas Legislator, Says Slavery May 'Have Been A Blessing' In New Book
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/05/jon-hubbard-arkansas-slavery-book_n_1943661.html
http://www.meforum.org/3352/muslim-persecution-of-christians-august-2012
Muslim Persecution of Christians: August, 2012
by Raymond Ibrahim
Gatestone Institute
October 7, 2012
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While many people are regularly persecuted by Islam's blasphemy law, one particular case made August headlines: a 14-year-old Christian girl in Pakistan, Rimsha Masih, was arrested, accused of burning pages of a Quran. Rioting Muslims destroyed Christian homes and churches, tore Bibles to pieces and broke crosses, while calling for the death penalty against her. Because this story made it to the mainstream media, widespread international condemnation caused Pakistani authorities to release her recently, not by annulling Pakistan's blasphemy law, but by finding loopholes, from characterizing the girl as retarded—Islamic law does not mandate punishment for blasphemers if they are retarded—to the unprecedented exposure of a Muslim cleric who framed her.
Because this incident prompted a widespread rampage against Pakistan's Christians, thousands have deserted their homes and are dispossessed. The Christians from Rimsha's neighborhood, including women and children, fled into the woods in fear of Muslim retribution, while others were evicted by their Muslim landlords. A few Christians sleeping overnight on the ground just miles away from Pakistani government buildings decided to build a church there and make it their permanent dwelling place. "Here it is not anybody's home, nobody's land. Let us live here in safety," said one. Another said: "We have cleared this place with our hands, and we have laid the first foundation of a small church here. Although this is a mere skeleton made of tree branches, this is the holy home of God. This should be respected."
Categorized by theme, August's batch of Muslim persecution of Christians around the world includes (but is not limited to) the following accounts, listed by theme and in country alphabetical order, not necessarily according to severity.
To be continued......
Muslim Persecution of Christians: August, 2012
by Raymond Ibrahim
Gatestone Institute
October 7, 2012
Print Send RSS
Share
While many people are regularly persecuted by Islam's blasphemy law, one particular case made August headlines: a 14-year-old Christian girl in Pakistan, Rimsha Masih, was arrested, accused of burning pages of a Quran. Rioting Muslims destroyed Christian homes and churches, tore Bibles to pieces and broke crosses, while calling for the death penalty against her. Because this story made it to the mainstream media, widespread international condemnation caused Pakistani authorities to release her recently, not by annulling Pakistan's blasphemy law, but by finding loopholes, from characterizing the girl as retarded—Islamic law does not mandate punishment for blasphemers if they are retarded—to the unprecedented exposure of a Muslim cleric who framed her.
Because this incident prompted a widespread rampage against Pakistan's Christians, thousands have deserted their homes and are dispossessed. The Christians from Rimsha's neighborhood, including women and children, fled into the woods in fear of Muslim retribution, while others were evicted by their Muslim landlords. A few Christians sleeping overnight on the ground just miles away from Pakistani government buildings decided to build a church there and make it their permanent dwelling place. "Here it is not anybody's home, nobody's land. Let us live here in safety," said one. Another said: "We have cleared this place with our hands, and we have laid the first foundation of a small church here. Although this is a mere skeleton made of tree branches, this is the holy home of God. This should be respected."
Categorized by theme, August's batch of Muslim persecution of Christians around the world includes (but is not limited to) the following accounts, listed by theme and in country alphabetical order, not necessarily according to severity.
To be continued......
Jihad Killings and Christian Displacement
Iraq: What Carl Moeller, president of Open Doors, characterized as "religicide," continues unabated in the nation that was liberated by U.S. forces a decade ago: "Christians in cities like Baghdad and Mosul are gripped by terrorism. They are fleeing in droves. Today [August 16] it was reported that at least 20 people died in blasts and shootings across the country." Before the toppling of Saddam Hussein, Mosul was home to some 75,000 Christians, but now the number has dropped to around 25,000. Christian homes are set on fire, bombs placed in their cars; other Christian families are receiving letters threatening them to leave Iraq or be kidnapped or killed.
Ivory Coast: As part of the civil war, Muslim rebels "massacred hundreds and displaced tens of thousands" of predominantly Christian supporters of Laurent Gbagbo. Since the attack, when their homes were taken by rebels, some 5,000 predominantly Christian ethnic Guere have been forced to flee into the ungoverned, inhospitable bush, or to the Catholic mission in Duekoue. The priest there reported that the mission has also been threatened by "crowds of angry youths."
Mali: As many as 200,000 Christians are fleeing to Algeria and Mauritania, where they are seeking a safe haven from Islamic terrorists linked to al-Qaeda, who have become increasingly active in the northern regions of the nation.
Nigeria: The Islamic terrorist organization Boko Haram [Western Education is a Sin] continued its jihad [holy war] to purge north Nigeria of all Christians. In one instance, gunmen murdered a 57-year-old evangelist of a Pentecostal church. When he was threatened earlier, he had said "I leave everything in the hands of God."
Syria: Some 12,000 people were blockaded in the predominantly Christian town of Rableh by anti-government forces; they killed several people trying to leave and refused the entry of food and medical supplies. Government forces had reportedly driven out the opposition by August 24. Christians were also given an ultimatum to leave the nearby cities of Qusayr and Homs, which has been almost entirely cleansed of its 50,000-60,000 Christian population. The predominantly Christian part of Aleppo was also hit by heavy fighting earlier this month; and a car bomb was detonated in the predominantly Christian area of Jaramana, a suburb of Damascus, as "a crowd of faithful, families, elderly people, women and children, were heading to the cemetery to bury two young people who had died a day earlier, on August 27, also victims of an IED. Twelve died (other sources say as many as 27), including five children, and injuring more than 50 people." Further, "a family of Armenian Christians was found murdered, and all members of the family horribly decapitated."
Iraq: What Carl Moeller, president of Open Doors, characterized as "religicide," continues unabated in the nation that was liberated by U.S. forces a decade ago: "Christians in cities like Baghdad and Mosul are gripped by terrorism. They are fleeing in droves. Today [August 16] it was reported that at least 20 people died in blasts and shootings across the country." Before the toppling of Saddam Hussein, Mosul was home to some 75,000 Christians, but now the number has dropped to around 25,000. Christian homes are set on fire, bombs placed in their cars; other Christian families are receiving letters threatening them to leave Iraq or be kidnapped or killed.
Ivory Coast: As part of the civil war, Muslim rebels "massacred hundreds and displaced tens of thousands" of predominantly Christian supporters of Laurent Gbagbo. Since the attack, when their homes were taken by rebels, some 5,000 predominantly Christian ethnic Guere have been forced to flee into the ungoverned, inhospitable bush, or to the Catholic mission in Duekoue. The priest there reported that the mission has also been threatened by "crowds of angry youths."
Mali: As many as 200,000 Christians are fleeing to Algeria and Mauritania, where they are seeking a safe haven from Islamic terrorists linked to al-Qaeda, who have become increasingly active in the northern regions of the nation.
Nigeria: The Islamic terrorist organization Boko Haram [Western Education is a Sin] continued its jihad [holy war] to purge north Nigeria of all Christians. In one instance, gunmen murdered a 57-year-old evangelist of a Pentecostal church. When he was threatened earlier, he had said "I leave everything in the hands of God."
Syria: Some 12,000 people were blockaded in the predominantly Christian town of Rableh by anti-government forces; they killed several people trying to leave and refused the entry of food and medical supplies. Government forces had reportedly driven out the opposition by August 24. Christians were also given an ultimatum to leave the nearby cities of Qusayr and Homs, which has been almost entirely cleansed of its 50,000-60,000 Christian population. The predominantly Christian part of Aleppo was also hit by heavy fighting earlier this month; and a car bomb was detonated in the predominantly Christian area of Jaramana, a suburb of Damascus, as "a crowd of faithful, families, elderly people, women and children, were heading to the cemetery to bury two young people who had died a day earlier, on August 27, also victims of an IED. Twelve died (other sources say as many as 27), including five children, and injuring more than 50 people." Further, "a family of Armenian Christians was found murdered, and all members of the family horribly decapitated."
Church Attacks
Azerbaijan: The highest appeals court upheld the decision to close Greater Grace Church, "the first religious community to be liquidated by a court since the country's harsh new religion law came into force in 2009." The church, registered since 1993, had provided a place for Christian worship and teaching for almost 20 years; and with a congregation of nearly 500, was one of the larger Protestant churches in the country.
Indonesia: Two churches were the latest to be forcibly closed in West Java: First, a "large tent" used for services by St. Johannes Baptista Church in Bogor was sealed off by authorities on August 7. The congregation had been using the tent since 2006 as a temporary location while they awaited a permit for a proper building, for which it had applied in 2000. Police threatened to "tear down" the tent if the Christians continued to use it; the church leader suspects the hostility is linked to the growth of the congregation, which now numbers around 500. Second, Batak Karo Protestant Church in Bandung was sealed off by protesters who claimed that the congregation had earlier agreed not to use the building, even though it now has all necessary permits to hold service.
Kenya: After a fight ensued between the supporters of a Muslim cleric who had died and the police, a church near the mosque where the funeral was being held was set on fire, and another church was attacked. Separately, another church was attacked and looted "by an armed mob," believed to be sympathizers of the al-Shabaab terrorist organization. In the words of the pastor who witnessed the pillage, "attackers armed with guns stormed the compound and immediately began pulling down one iron sheet after another, and soon 60 iron sheets were gone. It was a terrible sight to watch the walls of the church come down, [but] I could not shout for help because the attackers could gun me down. Shocked and dismayed, the church's 60 congregants arrived for worship the next day to find their church building in ruins." Police were told that there were threats of an attack and that local Muslims were saying things such as "we do not want infidels in this area," but did nothing. These latest attacks "came only one week after al-Shabab militants hurled grenades into the African Inland Church of Garissa, in eastern Kenya, and opened fire on congregants, killing 17 people, including 15 worshippers. Grenades were also thrown at the local Catholic church." More than 14 churches have been attacked in Kenya since April.
Nigeria: Gunmen, probably connected with the jihadi organization Boko Haram, "stormed the Deeper Life Church, where Christian worshippers were gathered in prayer, and surrounded the church in the middle of a worship service and opened fire with AK-47 assault rifles on the worshippers." At least 19 of them were killed, including the pastor. The following day, an unexploded bomb was discovered at Revival Church.
Syria: Gunmen attacked the Catholic monastery of Mar Musa, which dates from the 4th century, and is located north of Damascus. None of the monks was hurt, although the monastery was, in the words of Father Dall'Oglio, "sacked," and "gunmen stole everything they could steal," including tractors and other agricultural tools.
Azerbaijan: The highest appeals court upheld the decision to close Greater Grace Church, "the first religious community to be liquidated by a court since the country's harsh new religion law came into force in 2009." The church, registered since 1993, had provided a place for Christian worship and teaching for almost 20 years; and with a congregation of nearly 500, was one of the larger Protestant churches in the country.
Indonesia: Two churches were the latest to be forcibly closed in West Java: First, a "large tent" used for services by St. Johannes Baptista Church in Bogor was sealed off by authorities on August 7. The congregation had been using the tent since 2006 as a temporary location while they awaited a permit for a proper building, for which it had applied in 2000. Police threatened to "tear down" the tent if the Christians continued to use it; the church leader suspects the hostility is linked to the growth of the congregation, which now numbers around 500. Second, Batak Karo Protestant Church in Bandung was sealed off by protesters who claimed that the congregation had earlier agreed not to use the building, even though it now has all necessary permits to hold service.
Kenya: After a fight ensued between the supporters of a Muslim cleric who had died and the police, a church near the mosque where the funeral was being held was set on fire, and another church was attacked. Separately, another church was attacked and looted "by an armed mob," believed to be sympathizers of the al-Shabaab terrorist organization. In the words of the pastor who witnessed the pillage, "attackers armed with guns stormed the compound and immediately began pulling down one iron sheet after another, and soon 60 iron sheets were gone. It was a terrible sight to watch the walls of the church come down, [but] I could not shout for help because the attackers could gun me down. Shocked and dismayed, the church's 60 congregants arrived for worship the next day to find their church building in ruins." Police were told that there were threats of an attack and that local Muslims were saying things such as "we do not want infidels in this area," but did nothing. These latest attacks "came only one week after al-Shabab militants hurled grenades into the African Inland Church of Garissa, in eastern Kenya, and opened fire on congregants, killing 17 people, including 15 worshippers. Grenades were also thrown at the local Catholic church." More than 14 churches have been attacked in Kenya since April.
Nigeria: Gunmen, probably connected with the jihadi organization Boko Haram, "stormed the Deeper Life Church, where Christian worshippers were gathered in prayer, and surrounded the church in the middle of a worship service and opened fire with AK-47 assault rifles on the worshippers." At least 19 of them were killed, including the pastor. The following day, an unexploded bomb was discovered at Revival Church.
Syria: Gunmen attacked the Catholic monastery of Mar Musa, which dates from the 4th century, and is located north of Damascus. None of the monks was hurt, although the monastery was, in the words of Father Dall'Oglio, "sacked," and "gunmen stole everything they could steal," including tractors and other agricultural tools.
Apostasy, Blasphemy, Proselytism
Egypt: A Christian man accused of defaming Islam was arrested after a complaint in which he was accused of posting opinions in Facebook which insulted Muhammad. Insults to Islam and the prophet are considered crimes in Egypt under Article 98(f) of the Penal Code, which states: "Confinement for a period of not less than six months and not exceeding five years… shall be the penalty inflicted on whoever makes use of religion in propagating, either by words, in writing, or in any other means, extreme ideas for the purpose of inciting strife, ridiculing or insulting a heavenly religion or a sect following it, or damaging national unity."
Pakistan: After a Pakistani flag with the name of "Allah" on it accidentally blew from a Christian's property to a Muslim's, the Muslim accused the Christian of deliberately trying to blaspheme the name of Allah. This accusation was advertised in the local mosques, and prompted enraged Muslims to threaten to burn down the homes of the 15 Christian families in the area. Also, a Christian pastor, who had preached among Muslims, some of whom showed interest in converting, was threatened and subsequently kidnapped.
Tanzania: A 17-year-old girl, Eva Abdullah, who had abandoned Islam three years ago to convert to Christianity, was sentenced to two years in prison after being accused of desecrating the Quran. Her parents had disowned her and "a group of radicals" tried to "persuade" her to renounce her Christian faith. When she refused, they falsely accused her of desecrating a Quran.
Tunisia: The nation's ruling Islamist party filed a bill to criminalize offenses against "sacred values." "Crimes" would mandate prison terms and fines for broadly worded offenses, such as insulting or mocking the "sanctity of religion." Among other things, the bill also codifies the levels of offense to religious feelings, including "insults, profanity, derision and representation of Allah and Mohammed.
Egypt: A Christian man accused of defaming Islam was arrested after a complaint in which he was accused of posting opinions in Facebook which insulted Muhammad. Insults to Islam and the prophet are considered crimes in Egypt under Article 98(f) of the Penal Code, which states: "Confinement for a period of not less than six months and not exceeding five years… shall be the penalty inflicted on whoever makes use of religion in propagating, either by words, in writing, or in any other means, extreme ideas for the purpose of inciting strife, ridiculing or insulting a heavenly religion or a sect following it, or damaging national unity."
Pakistan: After a Pakistani flag with the name of "Allah" on it accidentally blew from a Christian's property to a Muslim's, the Muslim accused the Christian of deliberately trying to blaspheme the name of Allah. This accusation was advertised in the local mosques, and prompted enraged Muslims to threaten to burn down the homes of the 15 Christian families in the area. Also, a Christian pastor, who had preached among Muslims, some of whom showed interest in converting, was threatened and subsequently kidnapped.
Tanzania: A 17-year-old girl, Eva Abdullah, who had abandoned Islam three years ago to convert to Christianity, was sentenced to two years in prison after being accused of desecrating the Quran. Her parents had disowned her and "a group of radicals" tried to "persuade" her to renounce her Christian faith. When she refused, they falsely accused her of desecrating a Quran.
Tunisia: The nation's ruling Islamist party filed a bill to criminalize offenses against "sacred values." "Crimes" would mandate prison terms and fines for broadly worded offenses, such as insulting or mocking the "sanctity of religion." Among other things, the bill also codifies the levels of offense to religious feelings, including "insults, profanity, derision and representation of Allah and Mohammed.
Dhimmitude
[General Abuse, Debasement, and Suppression of Non-Muslims as "Tolerated" Citizens]
Egypt: The nation's jihad organizations dropped leaflets calling on Muslims to kill Christians wherever they found them. Coptic shop owners who sell Christian icons and statues received threatening letters. Muslim "gangs" plundered and kidnapped for ransom Christians. Islamists in the Constituent Assembly demanded that the Coptic Church's funds be placed under state financial control, a measure categorically rejected by Copts: the state in no way funds the Church, even though mosques are funded by taxpayers, including Christians. Condemning the proposal, the acting Patriarch of the Coptic Orthodox Church said the demand has only one meaning: "that Copts are clearly persecuted." Despite promising greater representation for Egypt's Copts, President Morsi broke his word and allowed only one Copt, a female, to represent the nation's 10-14% Christians in the newly formed Cabinet: "We had expected an increase in the representation of Copts especially after the number of ministries increased to 35. But the formation ignored all the known rights and concepts of citizenship," said the acting Patriarch: "It is not right that Copts get treated in this way." When Egypt's Constituent Assembly proposed a law to criminalize "forced labor, slavery, the trafficking of women and children, human organs, and the sex trade," from which Christians, especially females, would benefit, the Islamist party complained.
Iran: According to Mohabat News, authorities "raise[d] unsubstantiated charges" against five arrested converts to Christianity to "pressure" and "intimidate" them, including by falsely accusing them of desecrating the Quran, and holding them for indefinite periods. "Although their situation is still unclear six months after their arrest, there is no doubt that the Christians' only crime is related to their faith in Jesus Christ."
Pakistan: Eleven Christian student nurses were poisoned with mercury in their tea. It is believed that the Christian women were targeted as punishment for drinking tea while their Muslim colleagues were fasting during the month of Ramadan. And a 56-year-old Christian woman at the Karachi Press Club recounted how she and her family were enslaved and forced to work without pay, and tortured and beaten. Muslim "feudal lords" are threatening her and her extended family, with, among other charges, accusations of blasphemy: "Please protect us," they said. "We don't want to go back."
Saudi Arabia: The last of the 35 Ethiopian Christians held in detention since December after being arrested for holding a prayer meeting in a private home was deported home: "We have arrived home safe," one of the released said: "We believe that we are released as the result of the pressure exerted by ICC and others. The Saudi officials do not tolerate any religions other than Islam. They consider non-Muslims unbelievers. They are full of hatred towards non-Muslims."
Syria: A number of Melchite Greek Catholic priests, including the archbishop, fled to Lebanon after their offices were ransacked. According to Fides, "unidentified groups who want to feed a religious war and drag the Syrian population into sectarian conflicts" attacked the Christian area in the old quarter of Aleppo. A Byzantine Christian museum and an office of the Maronite Christian faith were also damaged.
Turkey: The chairman of Parliament's education committee is accusing the French government of "planting seeds of hate" with its move to include the Armenian genocide in history and geography books used in French secondary schools. Armenia, backed by many historians, says that about 1.5 million Armenians were killed in what is now eastern Turkey during World War I in a deliberate policy of genocide ordered by the Ottoman government.
Uzbekistan: A 26-year-old Christian woman, paralyzed from youth, and her mother were violently attacked by six men with sticks who broke into their home at 4 a.m. The men ransacked the home, confiscating icons, bibles, religious calendars and prayer books. When the paralyzed woman furtively tried to phone for help, she was beaten again. They were all taken to the police department, where the woman was "offered to convert to Islam." She refused, and the judge eventually "decided that the women had resisted police and had stored the banned religious literature at home and conducted missionary activities. He fined them 20 minimum monthly wages each."
[General Abuse, Debasement, and Suppression of Non-Muslims as "Tolerated" Citizens]
Egypt: The nation's jihad organizations dropped leaflets calling on Muslims to kill Christians wherever they found them. Coptic shop owners who sell Christian icons and statues received threatening letters. Muslim "gangs" plundered and kidnapped for ransom Christians. Islamists in the Constituent Assembly demanded that the Coptic Church's funds be placed under state financial control, a measure categorically rejected by Copts: the state in no way funds the Church, even though mosques are funded by taxpayers, including Christians. Condemning the proposal, the acting Patriarch of the Coptic Orthodox Church said the demand has only one meaning: "that Copts are clearly persecuted." Despite promising greater representation for Egypt's Copts, President Morsi broke his word and allowed only one Copt, a female, to represent the nation's 10-14% Christians in the newly formed Cabinet: "We had expected an increase in the representation of Copts especially after the number of ministries increased to 35. But the formation ignored all the known rights and concepts of citizenship," said the acting Patriarch: "It is not right that Copts get treated in this way." When Egypt's Constituent Assembly proposed a law to criminalize "forced labor, slavery, the trafficking of women and children, human organs, and the sex trade," from which Christians, especially females, would benefit, the Islamist party complained.
Iran: According to Mohabat News, authorities "raise[d] unsubstantiated charges" against five arrested converts to Christianity to "pressure" and "intimidate" them, including by falsely accusing them of desecrating the Quran, and holding them for indefinite periods. "Although their situation is still unclear six months after their arrest, there is no doubt that the Christians' only crime is related to their faith in Jesus Christ."
Pakistan: Eleven Christian student nurses were poisoned with mercury in their tea. It is believed that the Christian women were targeted as punishment for drinking tea while their Muslim colleagues were fasting during the month of Ramadan. And a 56-year-old Christian woman at the Karachi Press Club recounted how she and her family were enslaved and forced to work without pay, and tortured and beaten. Muslim "feudal lords" are threatening her and her extended family, with, among other charges, accusations of blasphemy: "Please protect us," they said. "We don't want to go back."
Saudi Arabia: The last of the 35 Ethiopian Christians held in detention since December after being arrested for holding a prayer meeting in a private home was deported home: "We have arrived home safe," one of the released said: "We believe that we are released as the result of the pressure exerted by ICC and others. The Saudi officials do not tolerate any religions other than Islam. They consider non-Muslims unbelievers. They are full of hatred towards non-Muslims."
Syria: A number of Melchite Greek Catholic priests, including the archbishop, fled to Lebanon after their offices were ransacked. According to Fides, "unidentified groups who want to feed a religious war and drag the Syrian population into sectarian conflicts" attacked the Christian area in the old quarter of Aleppo. A Byzantine Christian museum and an office of the Maronite Christian faith were also damaged.
Turkey: The chairman of Parliament's education committee is accusing the French government of "planting seeds of hate" with its move to include the Armenian genocide in history and geography books used in French secondary schools. Armenia, backed by many historians, says that about 1.5 million Armenians were killed in what is now eastern Turkey during World War I in a deliberate policy of genocide ordered by the Ottoman government.
Uzbekistan: A 26-year-old Christian woman, paralyzed from youth, and her mother were violently attacked by six men with sticks who broke into their home at 4 a.m. The men ransacked the home, confiscating icons, bibles, religious calendars and prayer books. When the paralyzed woman furtively tried to phone for help, she was beaten again. They were all taken to the police department, where the woman was "offered to convert to Islam." She refused, and the judge eventually "decided that the women had resisted police and had stored the banned religious literature at home and conducted missionary activities. He fined them 20 minimum monthly wages each."
I see this thread is still going.. Glad to see youre all still busy proving nothing with more bullshit islmamophobic propaganda being regurgitated as "facts". You guys are so seriously lame.
Let's have a look at your "sources":
Pipes has written, "It’s a mistake to blame Islam, a religion 14 centuries old, for the evil that should be ascribed to militant Islam, a totalitarian ideology less than a century old. Militant Islam is the problem, but moderate Islam is the solution." Pipes believes that moderate Muslims "constitute a very small movement", but a "brave" [citation needed] one, which the U.S. government should "give priority to locating, meeting with, funding, forwarding, empowering, and celebrating".
Pipes has praised Mustafa Kemal Atatürk in Turkey and the Sudanese thinker Mahmoud Mohamed Taha. In a September 2008 interview by Peter Robinson, Pipes stated that Muslims can be divided into three categories: "traditional Islam", which he sees as pragmatic and non-violent, "Islamism", which he sees as dangerous and militant, and "moderate Islam", which he sees as underground and not yet codified into a popular movement. He elaborated that he did not have the "theological background" to determine what group follows the Koran the closest and is truest to its intent.
(But luckily for us we have our very own theological experts on perb)
Through his Middle East Forum, Pipes fund-raised for the Dutch politician Geert Wilders during his trial, according to NRC Handelsblad. [30] Pipes himself praised Wilders in January 2010 as "the unrivaled leader of those Europeans who wish to retain their historic [European] identity.".
In an article entitled "Japanese Internment: Why It Was a Good Idea--And the Lessons It Offers Today", Pipes endorsed a defense of the internment of Japanese Americans during World War II, and linked the Japanese-American wartime situation to that of Muslim Americans today.
The New York Times cited Pipes as helping to lead the charge against Debbie Almontaser, a woman with a "longstanding reputation as a Muslim moderate" whom Pipes viewed as a representative of a pernicious new movement of "lawful Islamists." Almontaser resigned under pressure as principal of Khalil Gibran International Academy, an Arabic-language high school in New York City named after the famed Christian Arab-American poet. Pipes initially described the school as a "madrassa", which means school in Arabic but, in the West, carries the implication of Islamist teaching, though he later admitted that his use of the term had been "a bit of a stretch". Pipes explained his opposition: "It is hard to see how violence, how terrorism will lead to the implementation of sharia. It is much easier to see how, working through the system — the school system, the media, the religious organizations, the government, businesses and the like — you can promote radical Islam." Pipes had also stated that “Arabic-language instruction is inevitably laden with Pan-Arabist and Islamist baggage.”
Pipes has criticized the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), which he says is an "apologist" for Hezbollah and Hamas, and has a "roster of employees and board members connected to terrorism". CAIR, in turn, has written of Pipes that his "agenda-driven polemic... only serves to fan the flames of ignorance and prejudice. But perhaps that is his intent."
In The Nation, Brooklyn writer Kristine McNeil describes Pipes as an "anti-Arab propagandist" who has built a career out of "distortions... twist[ing] words, quot[ing] people out of context and stretch[ing] the truth to suit his purpose." James Zogby argues that Pipes possesses an "obsessive hatred of all things Muslim", and that "Pipes is to Muslims what David Duke is to African-Americans". Christopher Hitchens, a fellow supporter of the Iraq War and critic of political Islam, has also criticized Pipes, arguing that Pipes pursues an intolerant agenda, "confuses scholarship with propaganda", and "pursues petty vendettas with scant regard for objectivity."
In addition, Pipes sparked a controversy when he was invited to speak at the University of Toronto in March 2005. A letter from professors, staff and students asserted that Pipes had a "long record of xenophobic, racist and sexist speech that goes back to 1990." [44]
In addition, Pipes sparked a controversy when he was invited to speak at the University of Toronto in March 2005. A letter from professors, staff and students asserted that Pipes had a "long record of xenophobic, racist and sexist speech that goes back to 1990."
Professor John L. Esposito of Georgetown University has called Pipes "a bright, well-trained expert with considerable experience", but accuses Pipes of "selectivity and distortion" when asserting that "10 to 15 percent of the world's Muslims are militants". Esposito writes that Pipes' methodology "is as legitimate as equating all American Jews who have emigrated to Israel with Dr. Baruch Goldstein, the American physician who emigrated to Israel and later slaughtered some 25 Muslims at prayer in the Hebron mosque. Pipes knows much better."
On his own website and in articles for The Jerusalem Post, Pipes claimed that Barack Obama was a former Muslim. He alleged that Obama falsely claims that he had never been a Muslim, and that "the campaign appears to be either ignorant or fabricating when it states that Obama never prayed in a mosque."
Pipes wrote an article for FrontPage Magazine entitled "Confirmed: Barack Obama Practiced Islam." According to Pipes, "this matters" because Democratic presidential candidate Obama "is now what Islamic law calls a murtadd (apostate), an ex-Muslim converted to another religion who must be executed", and as president this would have "large potential implications for his relationship with the Muslim world." The progressive media watchdog group Media Matters for America described Pipes' article as promoting a "falsehood". Ben Smith, in an article on The Politico responded to these accusations claiming that they amounted to a "template for a faux-legitimate assault on Obama's religion" and that Daniel Pipes' work "is pretty stunning in the twists of its logic".
On a program on the Fox News Network, Pipes claimed that scholar Rashid Khalidi was an employee of the Palestinian Liberation Organization, at the time when the United States government designated the PLO as a 'terrorist organization', and that Barack Obama had alleged "financial ties" with Khalidi and that Khalidi hosted a fundraiser for Obama.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Pipes#
As for the Gatestone Institute, I already posted about them a few months ago but I'll repeat since you apparently missed it:
I may as well comment on an earlier link, to a website that doesnt even attempt to present its content as academic, that was posted by westcoast.
The "Barenaked Islam" website is quite obviously dedicated to spreading virulent islamophobia while vehemently denying it.
If the subtitle of the website, "It isn't islamophobia when they really ARE trying to kill you!", isn't enough to give you a clue, just take 5 minutes to read through the comments on the very same page linked in the post, and that should eliminate any doubts you might have.
It's unquestionably vicious islamophobic hateful propaganda for aspiring or engaged bigots. Period. Its disgusting, absolutely disgusting.
Obviously I could keep going for a long time about the sources you and other islamophobes uncritically rely on to try to justify anti-muslim bigotry but I'll stop here.
Reading, buying into and quoting.websites or "experts" who specialize in (and profit from) spreading anti-muslim hate propaganda and fear, doesn't suddenly make you an impartial expert yourself. It just exposes you for using such vile propaganda to form beliefs and confirm your xenophobia. Nothing particularly impressive or convincing about that.
http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...sues/2011/summer/the-anti-muslim-inner-circle
http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...se-all-issues/2011/summer/jihad-against-islam
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Right. Must be proof. And, of course, uniquely Muslim.
On the subject Brainwashing kids………
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LACyLTsH4ac?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I recomment watching the full movie:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SUkXvWn1m7Q?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
--—----------------------
No, he did not call for Israel's destruction (although Israel has called for attacks on Iran in no uncertain terms - and has been doing so for years). How convenient that his speeches are not made in English and require translation. Anyone can decide to make him say just about anything they want! Look it up....
Lost in translation:
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=4556
I reccommend reading the entire interview but If not, then at least the relevant portion about the holocaust. Then you can stop believing and repeating falsehoods and propaganda.
http://www.salon.com/2006/05/30/ahmadinejad_interview_2/?mobile.html
I may as well comment on an earlier link, to a website that doesnt even attempt to present its content as academic, that was posted by westcoast.
The "Barenaked Islam" website is quite obviously dedicated to spreading virulent islamophobia while vehemently denying it.
If the subtitle of the website, "It isn't islamophobia when they really ARE trying to kill you!", isn't enough to give you a clue, just take 5 minutes to read through the comments on the very same page linked in the post, and that should eliminate any doubts you might have.
It's unquestionably vicious islamophobic hateful propaganda for aspiring or engaged bigots. Period. Its disgusting, absolutely disgusting.
Obviously I could keep going for a long time about the sources you and other islamophobes uncritically rely on to try to justify anti-muslim bigotry but I'll stop here.
Reading, buying into and quoting.websites or "experts" who specialize in (and profit from) spreading anti-muslim hate propaganda and fear, doesn't suddenly make you an impartial expert yourself. It just exposes you for using such vile propaganda to form beliefs and confirm your xenophobia. Nothing particularly impressive or convincing about that.
http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...sues/2011/summer/the-anti-muslim-inner-circle
http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...se-all-issues/2011/summer/jihad-against-islam
--—----------------------
This is what I meant when I said they start the brainwashing early
Right. Must be proof. And, of course, uniquely Muslim.
On the subject Brainwashing kids………
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LACyLTsH4ac?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I recomment watching the full movie:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SUkXvWn1m7Q?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
--—----------------------
No, he did not call for Israel's destruction (although Israel has called for attacks on Iran in no uncertain terms - and has been doing so for years). How convenient that his speeches are not made in English and require translation. Anyone can decide to make him say just about anything they want! Look it up....
Lost in translation:
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=4556
I reccommend reading the entire interview but If not, then at least the relevant portion about the holocaust. Then you can stop believing and repeating falsehoods and propaganda.
http://www.salon.com/2006/05/30/ahmadinejad_interview_2/?mobile.html
W
westcoast555
You clearly don't understand English if you read that interview and you can't see that he's casting doubt on the holocaust. He's a slippery bastard and I saw him on Piers Morgan two days ago and he REFUSED to endorse a two state solution or confirm that Israel has a right to exist. It's common knowledge that Muslims generally want Israel to be destroyed. They've tried to do it 4 times already. You can play word games as much as you like but it's clear to anyone who watches Ahmadinejad that he won't even acknowledge Israel's right to exist. He won't even use the name.As for the Gatestone Institute, I already posted about them a few months ago but I'll repeat since you apparently missed it:
I may as well comment on an earlier link, to a website that doesnt even attempt to present its content as academic, that was posted by westcoast.
The "Barenaked Islam" website is quite obviously dedicated to spreading virulent islamophobia while vehemently denying it.
If the subtitle of the website, "It isn't islamophobia when they really ARE trying to kill you!", isn't enough to give you a clue, just take 5 minutes to read through the comments on the very same page linked in the post, and that should eliminate any doubts you might have.
It's unquestionably vicious islamophobic hateful propaganda for aspiring or engaged bigots. Period. Its disgusting, absolutely disgusting.
Obviously I could keep going for a long time about the sources you and other islamophobes uncritically rely on to try to justify anti-muslim bigotry but I'll stop here.
Reading, buying into and quoting.websites or "experts" who specialize in (and profit from) spreading anti-muslim hate propaganda and fear, doesn't suddenly make you an impartial expert yourself. It just exposes you for using such vile propaganda to form beliefs and confirm your xenophobia. Nothing particularly impressive or convincing about that.
http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...sues/2011/summer/the-anti-muslim-inner-circle
http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...se-all-issues/2011/summer/jihad-against-islam
--—----------------------
Right. Must be proof. And, of course, uniquely Muslim.
On the subject Brainwashing kids………
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LACyLTsH4ac?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I recomment watching the full movie:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SUkXvWn1m7Q?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
No, he did not call for Israel's destruction (although Israel has called for attacks on Iran in no uncertain terms - and has been doing so for years). How convenient that his speeches are not made in English and require translation. Anyone can decide to make him say just about anything they want! Look it up....
Lost in translation:
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=4556
I reccommend reading the entire interview but If not, then at least the relevant portion about the holocaust. Then you can stop believing and repeating falsehoods and propaganda.
http://www.salon.com/2006/05/30/ahmadinejad_interview_2/?mobile.html
You're arguing from a position of attachment and nothing will change your mind.
Are they trying to be like Catholic priests/clergy, or something? Pfffft. Poseurs. Everyone knows those Catholics are the unchallenged champions of pedophilia.
I can read English fine. Stick your insults where the sun don't shine and stick to the topic. I'm not arguing from a position of attachment and unless you can back that up with any evidence, please just stick to the facts. I realize you're short on arguments so it's tempting to resort to insults but try to control your emotions a little because desperation doesn't make you look any more convincing.
You are absolutely right that I am not going to change my mind and NOR SHOULD I when not one of you has even tried to show that any of the random propaganda you can find on YouTube or anti-muslim website is representative of and truly unique to Islam. Why would I change my mind when not one of you has given me any valid reason to change my mind?
It might instead be you guys who should reconsider your position given the fact that you can't support it very well and can't refute anything (and there has been A LOT!) that has challenged your "position". Don't worry, I'm not holding my breath. Your "position" doesn't really put much importance on facts, as you've shown.
Obviously I can read English well enough to show your claim about "being on record" calling for Israel's destruction was wrong.
Who cares if he wouldn't acknowledge Israel's right to exist? How the hell is that in any way important or required? He's not threatening to attack or anything - unlike Israel's PM who is relentless in his pressure to attack Iran. I honestly fail to see how that matters. And who cares If he wouldn't endorse a two state solution? Is there some sort of law or rule somewhere that says he or anyone has to? Wtf?
That question is completely useless anyway to begin with; there is never going to be a two state solution, Israel has never wanted one and doesn't want one now.
Even If they somehow wanted it (which they don't or they certainly wouldn't still be building more settlements, would they), there are now around 500 000 Israeli citizens (aka settlers) living in the hundreds of ILLEGAL settlements built on "confiscated" (aka STOLEN) Palestinian lands IN the occupied territories. The settlements/villages/cities along with the network of roads that connect them to one another and to Israel proper, effectively break up what would have been a Palestinian state into disconnected enclaves. There is no "state" left for a continuous Palestinian state. (AKA "facts on the ground"). The MSM may not have acknowledged the obvious yet and may still be pretending it's going to happen but the reality is it is not and was not ever going to either.
This is what is left of Palestine:
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rcPO9j4Nqj8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
So, really, who cares if he won't play along with the "west"s delusions and wishful thinking? Seriously..
As for the interview... Your claim was that he was on record denying the Holocaust. As the interview showed, he doesn't deny the Holocaust (he explicitly says so), which would make your claim wrong. All the hissy fits you want to have aren't going to change this.
Bottom line, both your claims were inaccurate and I have convincingly demonstrated that. PERIOD.
"He's a slippery bastard", you say. Yah, big fucking deal, what's your point? Show me a politician who isn't! Do I think he's borderline Holocaust denier, yah, i think he's dangerously close to stepping over the line - for sure. But I think that interview shows he's trying to make a point. If the Holocaust did happen, it follows that Europe was responsible and Europe should have given some of ITS land for Jews. Why did Europe give them Arab land to establish Israel If the Arabs were not responsible for the Holocaust and had no responsibility to offer retribution to Jews for the Holocaust? Of course, his point is obvious and there really isn't much to say to argue against. And of course, it's not as simple because we can recognize it now but back then, when Palestine was under British mandate, colonialism was acceptable (not that it isnt at all anymore but now it just has to be more discreet lol ), the British decided to give Arab land and they didn't care whether the Arabs were opposed or that it was wrong. So it means that almost 100 years later, we can't reasonably justify it but it doesn't change the fact that it was done and we live with the consequences.
But If we're all honest here, the initial decision to do that, was morally, legally, logically and ethically wrong. To fault anyone for saying so and questioning the fairness of making the Palestinians pay the price for Europe's crimes as we stand by, support a bully and turn a blind eye to crimes for over 60 years, would be disingenuous (and that's being generous). You'd be saying the exact same and don't even try to convince me you would have no problem with it. Bull!
That's what (part of) the interview says.
There's nothing wrong with reviewing historical events. That's what historians do. Nothing ever becomes fixed. To flat out deny it happened is reprehensible, I fully agree. But there is not anything wrong or unusual about leaving room to continue studying and questioning events from the past. Even If you or I don't feel the need to do so, others have every right to. So while I do believe he's dangerously close to going over the line, he hasn't denied anything and is entitled to question some of th'e historical facts.
(To be clear, I'm not claiming the guy is all peaches and cream but im saying hes not the devil incarnate either. A lot of what is claimed is propaganda and spin and that is not helpful. Those quotes are not accurate, yet still repeated over and over because, among other things, our media sucks ass. It is lazy and it pathetically just repeats things without ever bothering to verify or challenge it. It wouldnt be as bad if the majority of people who read/watch it didnt believe that whatever makes it on the news can always be trusted to be accurate or balanced. Unfortunately that is a sad joke. )
Thats mainly why im posting about the inaccuracies, though i know its not surprising that you would believe he said this on record because most of our media is still too stupid or incompetent to have stopped claiming so - and probably never will.
All this, of course, doesnt really have to do with the topic of this thread so I'm not going to get into it the last thing im bringing up but I'm still going to call you on more of your inaccurate claims.
Please name those "4 times Muslims attacked and tried to destroy Israel". First of all, even if that was true -which it's not- Iran had nothing to do with any of those wars and the fact that it is a muslim country doesn't make it responsible because other "Muslim countries" were. That is absurd. But like I said, it isn't even true and you're pushing more myths, falsehood and propaganda. It's getting tiresome, either get the facts or don't say anything!
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2_3I-9kuWow" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sIWvcBzbqVc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
One down......ugh.
Sounds pretty much exactly what we've read in this thread, doesn't it - almost word for word! If anyone ever wants to know what islamophobia looks like, just send them over to this thread to see numerous instances of it, in all it's ugliness.
Lots of great, very interesting info here (BTW, Daniel Pipes, the MEC and the Gatestone Institute are on the list and Barenaked Islam also gets a mention on the page):
http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.ph...he_anti-muslimanti-arabislamophobia_industry/
Where exactly is "over there"?? A country in the middle east? One in Africa? All of the middle east? And all of Africa? All of the Muslim majority countries in the world? "Over there" is kind of vague...
And.....
Now you let me know if you STILL don't understand that obviously this isn't about Islam. OK?
I don't have time or desire to go through all the different Muslim countries to show just how clueless your post but here's an example that makes it clear that Islam, like any religion, has evolves and continues to change with times.
Just a quick look through the differences between Muslim countries (above) makes it quite obvious it's about more than religion. If you want to keep oversimplifying, knock yourself out but that's pretty lame and totally meaningless.
It's absurd to look at it in a totally eurocentric way and to completely ignore the how tribal customs and regional cultures are important. These are also things that are changing. All things considered, it wasn't that long ago that "Western" society and culture had a very different view of th's concept of "childhood". If you consider how long we were around before that happened, it's actually really recent. But regardless, it's ignorant to only see the world by comparison to ourselves and based on the belief that we are superior and should be imitated.
Miss Bijou, would you mind asking your brother if he minds condemning the Jews and Christians every time he is praying?
Because if he is praying, this is what he is doing as it is included in the prayers automatically.
He might not be aware of it becuase the prayers are in Arabic. But just in case he is curious about WHAT those words mean....
Actually, it helps when people KNOW what their religions are all about.
You're such an idiot. Seriously.
