Are We Being Manipulated? Are you in this club?

[Nice money]

Now that is the smartest remark I have seen in this thread. without disrespect to the ladies, in their reviews, we could add that abbreviation, not as a negative thing, but as what a client might expect or want in a SP. Some guys, despite all their comments like to help and give presents, as well as the "token" expected. With some of my most favorite SP's, especially in New York, I LOVE SPOILING them. But I never think that I'm Richard Gere in Pretty Woman. MY first few experiences with SP were good and bad. I had one that wrapped me around her finger and took me for a long expensive ride. Now I know. Just like you can see that chick at starbucks eyeing that guy stepping out of that Lamborgini, to whom she never would have given a second look at. Suddenly she is smiling and offering you the spare seat. (Even when you are with another woman)
SDGFE (Sugar Daddy's GFE) good one:clap2:

 

[kauffman]

nobody is being taken for a ride here. If you want a real relationship then use your real charm and stop thinking that there is a short route to success by paying. Of course she will try to say everything you wan to hear and it doesnt mean she doesnt find genuine things to like about you. but PLEASE look at the reason you have chosen to take this route in the first place. Financial issues of your own....?

 

[luvsdaty]

Awesome, totally remember that song, & valley girls too!

 

[PlayfulAlex]

No balance, it is go big or go home. The relationship thing is a lost cause.

Haha...that's what I meant...every time we engage in any way with another human being (even with an SP) that's a relationship...could be short, or long-term, but it's still a relationship, by its nature...

 

[PlayfulAlex]

...I don't think being an SP is as easy as waking up, sucking a few cocks then driving home to her mansion in her pink porsche with a big bag of money...the only thing I do know is I couldn't have sex with 1,000 guys a year for $300,000 or even $400,000 a year.

Some people just know how to distinguish between fantasy and reality...

 

[Marissa Lee]

Okay I just wanted to say a few words about this subject, give a girls/ex SP opinion on the matter.

A relationship should not be about money. If you are a guy that thinks in order to have your girlfriend like/love you, you need to spend hundreds to thousands on buying them clothes, shoes, even homes, you should reconsider this. The person you are with should want to be with you because they love the person you are, not what you can buy them. If you are in a relationship, ask yourself would she/he still be here if I went broke? I am all for a guy doing romantic things such as getting me flowers or cooking me a nice dinner but romance should not have to cost thousands.

Don’t get a “relationship” and a “sugardady/sugarbabe arrangement” confused they are two very different things. If you are a sugardaddie and you are upset because your sugarbabe wants you to buy her clothes, purses, homes, don’t act upset or confused by this. That is what you signed up for when you entered into that type of “arrangement”, you did not enter into a relationship.

Furthermore I have noticed a common theme where guys are lending SP thousands of dollars, buying them cars ect. Honestly why would someone who makes hundreds of dollars an hour even need to borrow money.:doh: I worked as an escort and never needed to borrow money, or even think about money. It’s lovely to spoil your favorite SP with flowers, chocolates, spa treatments but rethink buying them big ticket items; we can afford to buy our own. With your SP you are a client not her boyfriend or lover, if you were anything other than a client why would you still have to pay her by the hour? I am not trying to make SP's out to seem heartless in anyway. SP's are smart, independent business women. We can respect, value and enjoy the company of the client who visits us but boundaries in this type of relationship should be maintained by both people.

 

[newatit]

The big difference here in sp income and others is what they net and do with it. In the many years I have dealt with their crowd I have never found any real degree of success or competency financially. In fact most of them are disasters.

 

[Gentle-man]

Okay I just wanted to say a few words about this subject, give a girls/ex SP opinion on the matter.

A relationship should not be about money. If you are a guy that thinks in order to have your girlfriend like/love you, you need to spend hundreds to thousands on buying them clothes, shoes, even homes, you should reconsider this. The person you are with should want to be with you because they love the person you are, not what you can buy them. If you are in a relationship, ask yourself would she/he still be here if I went broke? I am all for a guy doing romantic things such as getting me flowers or cooking me a nice dinner but romance should not have to cost thousands.

Don’t get a “relationship” and a “sugardady/sugarbabe arrangement” confused they are two very different things. If you are a sugardaddie and you are upset because your sugarbabe wants you to buy her clothes, purses, homes, don’t act upset or confused by this. That is what you signed up for when you entered into that type of “arrangement”, you did not enter into a relationship.

Furthermore I have noticed a common thyme where guys are lending SP thousands of dollars, buying them cars ect. Honestly why would someone who makes hundreds of dollars an hour even need to borrow money.:doh: I worked as an escort and never needed to borrow money, or even think about money. It’s lovely to spoil your favorite SP with flowers, chocolates, spa treatments but rethink buying them big ticket items; we can afford to buy our own. With your SP you are a client not her boyfriend or lover, if you were anything other than a client why would you still have to pay her by the hour? I am not trying to make SP out to seem heartless in anyway. SP's are smart, independent business women. We can respect, value and enjoy the company of the client who visits us but boundaries in this type of relationship should be maintained by both people.

Well said! (Other than substituting thyme for theme )

 

[Marissa Lee]

That is why I have a friend proof read all my papers. LOL

 

[mikeret17]

Been in this position with an fairly established SP. While at the time, I didn't mind helping her out, because I guess I may have thought of her as a friend.

Met up with her for a quite enjoyable session, after sharing sharing breakfast and some good conversation. Over the next month or so, we ended up texting back and for quite a bit and (I thought) solidifying a report of sorts.
She called me up one day and asked to borrow some money, not alot so I wasn't really concerned. At the time, it didn't really matter to me if I ever got it back, even though she swore it would be returned, because she "never did sh&% like that to anybody". I guess I should have clued in a little more when she got upset that I didn't make it to the bank as fast as she was hoping. About a month later, she offered up something new, regarding her kids. Again, didn't see an issue. Took me forever to even find her to get the issue dealt with. Again, she was very adamant about getting squared away, and some plans were made for the payback. Fell through, even after she told me that it would only be ME that could change or back out. The day before the set time, she informs me that she had the chance to make alot of money over the weekend, so our time was gonna have to be put on hold.
Well, all hell broke loose after that, and we seem to have eternally parted on bad terms. The money, wasn't the real issue, but makes me wonder.

 

[newatit]

To compare Mikeret and Borko above, I see some hypothesis versus facts. Mikeret tells a familiar story. There are some successful gals out there but they are not the general rule. Sure I have heard stories of drawers full of money and etc but as I look at these gals telling me this, then reality hits. They are poor, behind on their rents, kids without food, no decent car, and clothes that embarrass you. And yes they need to borrow money. Or yes you loaned them money but could they please have cash this time instead of working the load off.

There is really no end to this quest for cash and loans and gifts. And for those who do get ahead here and there they either get sick and can't work and lose it or they buy something on time which gets them deeper into the hole. Or they have all this cash in the bank so they take an expensive vacation. Sure we have all seen this. So maybe it is true, they get a good pay for an hour work. But their front doors do not open every hour.

I got curious one day that I had free and was able to monitor one gal. She had a sexy ad in the local paper, good website, nice come on, but one client all day. Had a date with her next day and she was crying about the lousy week she had. I knew it to be true. Just recently I had another chance to monitor another situation. A massage parlor near a hotel I stayed in. Went over and had a massage and day ended up with inviting the "therapist" back to hotel for the next night. Decided to see how busy she was. I could see the entrance to the Massage Parlour from my room. Did not have to watch often. It snowed. Only had to look for footprints to the door. None in over four hours. I knew that she was sitting there penniless all night. Next day bought chocolates and valentines card and took over at noon to confirm evening date. She said no one ever did that for her before. More snow and still no footprints next night. After work we spent whole night and she told about only one to two dates a day. Can believe it it.
So I invited her to visit me for a few nights on the next trip. It worked out well.

So yes we are manipulated, in many ways, but you can manipulate back and make it work just as well. Just be creative, it is a world in which while some one is trying to manipulate you for something, you suddenly have information. That information is that they are hard up for money, you have it, use the power man. Get what you want. I had a gal who needed money a few years ago. Over the phone insisted on a two hour long daty session. No one is getting that she said. We discussed, I said no that is what i want, and if she wasn't interested, I was going to sleep. Thank you, hung up. Two minutes later phone rings, ok, get over here. So yes, won't work for everyone, but if night is late and rent due, surprising what is workable. And nothing wrong with it, just the market place.

 

[lawrence8]

A very interesting read, particularly to the doctor's pay scale provided in the link. I've actually found the surgeon who did a procedure on me recently. I would compare it between an engineer to a doctor. Both are professionals but quite the discrepancy in pay. Some professionals are more "important" than others and are paid and perceived to have a higher responsibility level. Makes me re-think my career choice (but too late now) and I do not know what the overhead costs are for a doctor. There are essentially very little for an engineer who is either an employee or an associate at a firm. http://www.apeg.bc.ca/services/employmentcentre/compensationsurvey.html

I would assume an SP will make double that of an engineer with 10 plus years of experience but less than a doctor if given the same working hours (but without all the other compensation benefits). However, SP's career life is limited (15 years?) compare to a professional (40-50 years) but the stigma may not wear off. I am generalizing here but SP profession is nonetheless, still frown upon by the public. I may be the most open minded person and do not give a shit to what society thinks or how they view my pooning activities, but we are likely the minority.

But back to the subject, if you are "helping" out someone, why are you expecting a return or the feeling of being manipulated? We are adults, we can make our own decisions, budget our expenses, plan what we can afford and save for ourselves. I have given gifts, some are handmade by myself and some are bought. They ranges from a few dollars to a thousand but they are all within my means. If you do not feel good on helping out, then by all means, just say no, as straight forwardly and honest as you can.

 

[PlayfulAlex]

...But I've likely alienated myself from all them at this point trying to articulate myself.

Highly unlikely, as you brought up an intelligent and logical perspective...

 

[sevenofnine]

just a comment,
some one made the comment money is not the issue,

i kind of agree there are more important things then money, it comes and goes meant to be spent and enjoyed.
things like charecter respect trust friendship, etc etc
i value much more then money or any material things,
i guess maybe because at one time, they were so fleeting to me.

but it says more about the person, the other person who rips you off, then it does about your self if your helping some one out, and then maybe your motivations as to why, what you wanted or expected in return or why you didn't see it coming.
but being a nice guy for the sake of being a nice guy, is never a bad thing, no matter how it turns out.
just my humble opininon

 

[newatit]

no big pay or just heavy expenses, results bad choice.

I have no doubt that some SP's do well, maybe into the 100 K to 200 K $ per year, and if they did the income tax department would have in interest in them. But maybe the real crux is that they don't and as said above if you look hard at their set up, you see expenses galore, other costs and other expenditures that most of us consider unwise. Their net worth, at the end of a year, is not much. I have been personally involved with quite a few, and over the years never seen one in a better home than me, with a better car than me, or better long term lifestyle.

Forget glamourizing the income. For a very few wise ones yes, they get it and save it and maybe buy a condo building. For the others it is a disaster. And a few find a happy medium. But the vast majority...no its a mess. I know where two of them are, one is six feet under, the other is working in an institution for miniumum wage. Several others got wise and quit the job.

 

[Dgodus]

I don't get why you are trying to help out so many sp's. Are you doing this for everyone else you have a casual relationship with? There also seems to be an underlying theme of you wanting or trying to get women out of the business. Coupled with the fact you were following some around, keepin an eye on em for a day and those were only two you mentioned, how many others have you watched and didn't find what you were looking for - as that's the impression I'm starting to form. That you're looking for situations in which you can step in, and now you're a little bitter this approach hasn't worked out in your favor. The reasons behind this thread are starting to seem a little shady to me I'm wondering if the manipulation isn't a two way street. Being a nice guy is one thing, but you seem to subscribe more to a savior mentality which I know from dealing with too many drug addicts (and indulging too much myself) is a bad f#@king idea unless you're a trained professional.

Paid companionship is a casual no strings attached business relationship formed on an illusion. Exchanging a few txts or emails that are unrelated to business is one thing (even this freaks me out that I may be crossing some boundary), I've even been an alternate for my doctor's darts nights. But I'm not actually looking to get involved with anyone, much less someone I visit in a professional capacity! Now I'll cop to spending too much on their services, but my financial obligations are basically nil, but forking out serious cash above and beyond - come on man. Relationships are based on how their formed. If it happens because you're interesting, fun and good natured well then you're on the right road to a healthy one. If you get your foot in the door because you act like a piggy bank, well, go see the "are gf's more expensive than sp.'s" thread. This is about sex (maybe not entirely for some, but as much as I love it I'm not paying 300/hr for convo and cuddling), and sex can be a vice just like booze drugs and gambling. If you're gonna indulge better have your head on straight, eyes and ears open, and have the ability to walk away.

 

[Dgodus]

Women using men. Men using women.

Stuff like that gives prostitution a bad name. Disgusting.

G'dammit I nearly pissed in the hot tub from laughing.

 

[Ned Flanders]

I don't get why you are trying to help out so many sp's. Are you doing this for everyone else you have a casual relationship with? There also seems to be an underlying theme of you wanting or trying to get women out of the business. Coupled with the fact you were following some around, keepin an eye on em for a day and those were only two you mentioned, how many others have you watched and didn't find what you were looking for - as that's the impression I'm starting to form. That you're looking for situations in which you can step in, and now you're a little bitter this approach hasn't worked out in your favor. The reasons behind this thread are starting to seem a little shady to me I'm wondering if the manipulation isn't a two way street. Being a nice guy is one thing, but you seem to subscribe more to a savior mentality which I know from dealing with too many drug addicts (and indulging too much myself) is a bad f#@king idea unless you're a trained professional.

Paid companionship is a casual no strings attached business relationship formed on an illusion. Exchanging a few txts or emails that are unrelated to business is one thing (even this freaks me out that I may be crossing some boundary), I've even been an alternate for my doctor's darts nights. But I'm not actually looking to get involved with anyone, much less someone I visit in a professional capacity! Now I'll cop to spending too much on their services, but my financial obligations are basically nil, but forking out serious cash above and beyond - come on man. Relationships are based on how their formed. If it happens because you're interesting, fun and good natured well then you're on the right road to a healthy one. If you get your foot in the door because you act like a piggy bank, well, go see the "are gf's more expensive than sp.'s" thread. This is about sex (maybe not entirely for some, but as much as I love it I'm not paying 300/hr for convo and cuddling), and sex can be a vice just like booze drugs and gambling. If you're gonna indulge better have your head on straight, eyes and ears open, and have the ability to walk away.

Could not possibly express this better!

 

[newatit]

Dgodess you are almost on course. But I am on the other side. Demand integrity and honesty, and checking out "claims" is something every good investor does. And in the end the results are almost comical in some cases. Why, because none of these rip off artists ever think you might. It is just follow up man. The difference between the haves and have nots. Like when some one asks you for money to pay a bill. Ever think to ask for a copy of bill? Times I have the request was dropped. So you would honestly invest in a situation based on the gal's claims?

No, only stepped in once before, and only one temptation since, and wasn't really looking to do it and in the end did not. The signs were too negative. Usually just a normal user. Not a saviour of anyone. But there are those worth saving. But once they are coldened into this profession, it is unlikely anyone will pull them out. And when I have seen them pulled out, it was by a bad sitution, they really only got a worse deal.

When starting this thread had hoped some guys would write in indicating not maybe names but situations they were dealing with. Like the one about paying for a car. Any idea how many guys might be paying for the same car? So if a few clients indicated they were paying for a car off line, it might be interesting whose car they were buying? At that time a name could be kept amongst a few and the activity stopped.

"If you're gonna indulge better have your head on straight, eyes and ears open, and have the ability to walk away. "

Appreciate the comment. I have it. And so do the many others who have been taken, just not exercised it. It is time.

So the original purpose of the thread was never met, but the discussion has been eye opening to many surely.

So it should become obvious to those that are being used, that they are, hopefully. What is the defense? This can be a flight or fight situation. Actually in many cases flight is justified. But for the more stead fast, turn the tables. An attempt to rip you off has a reason, turn it around if you can see how to, get a square deal you might not have got otherwise, or take advantage of the situation. Get more than you would have otherwise. Where's your spirit man? And if you can't win, run.

 

[Dickson]

Short answer, i don't have friends in this hobby.I use to but after hearing the same sad stories you just become jaded to the whole thing.Now i just see a girl a couple times & move on. Or just run them through the rotation & it might be a year till i see them again.I have a disposable phone that stays off until my little buddy starts trying to do his incredible hulk routine & tries ripping through my gonch.Any text messages that i do get on it i just delete(chances are it was from over a month ago any way)I've done the whole date an sp thing & i'd never do it again, lets face it a lot of these girls have very expensive tastes if you decide to start treating them to shopping trips,vacations,etc.etc.It really starts to ad up fast.
Nope Surly only looks after one person now,Surly.It just makes life so much easier.Now friends outside of the hobby, i wouldn't hesitate in lending a hand in a second.

luvsdaty, I think you have the right approach. Everytime I get into the friendship situation it blows up in my face. I have had those "expensive tastes" ladies and it blows me away how much they can spend and still not be happy. These discussions really help me to put things in perspective. I seem to only have friends who want me to buy them things so I am done with friends.

However after reading some of the posted I feel like shit as I am as bad as the SP/GF that take advantage of me. I met a young SP who I seem to connect with and I implusively suggested that maybe she come to Europe with me. She got excited and was thinking about it until her Mom told her that she is crazy. I now realize how crazy it was for me to even suggest it. To put it in perspective, I did, do it a few years back with a European SP who spent two weeks with me in North America. It ended it a mess but it was a good time at first. On my recent flight back I realize how an old guy like me can not get involved with a 26 year old. It is just purely wrong.

So I am just as bad as the SP. One SP I spent 7 months with just called me pure EVIL and now hates me for exposing her to another world. Taking her shopping and buyer her fancy dresses, shoes, hand bags, fancy restaurants, taking her to the theater, night clubs, Galas, first class flights, limo rides, suites in 5 star hotels, taking her LA and NYC. She hates me for exposing her to that world. I take advantage of them as much as they take advantage of me. Messing with thier emotions. I am as bad as them.

Keeping it like you luvsdaty is the right thing to do. It is becoming clear to me. Either that or just get out of the hobby like I have with real GFs and friends. However it does get lonely.