Carman Fox

Dear Johns

Miss*Bijou

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Nov 9, 2006
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Thought this was an interesting read. :)





Dear Johns

by SASHA
August 31, 2010



I’ve been watching with livid frustration as the legal travesty that followed the security travesty preceded by the political travesty (a veritable trifecta of travesty, it has been) unfolds around the G20 arrests.


During the mass court appearance on Monday, Aug 20, the Crown prosecutors attempted to strike deals with some of the accused by requesting they pay 50 or 100 bucks to their favourite charity to have their charges dropped. This reminded me of something I witnessed in the spring of last year when I sat in a courtroom and watched one man after another, all of whom had been arrested in an undercover police operation called Project DOJO (Diversion of John Offenders) stand before a judge being told that they would have the charges of trying to procure a sex worker in public dropped if they paid $400 to a charity. That charity, which they weren’t free to choose and which required their participation, was called John School (streetlightsupportservices.ca/about_john_school.html) .


While the little media that did cover DOJO tended to focus on the fact that one officer was assaulted in the course of an arrest being made and another accused solicited an undercover officer from an allegedly stolen vehicle, what I got when I spoke to many of these men was that several didn’t understand at the time of their arrest they were being solicited by sex workers at all. Language and cultural barriers (most of the men were racialized and a large majority spoke very little English) led several of them to believe that they were being cruised by nonprofessionals. If they did understand that they were professionals, they were often not the ones who initiated the transaction.


In an article published in the Toronto Star on Wednesday, Aug. 25, about the G20 mass court appearance, Thomas Walkom wrote, “In a standard court case, this tactic—a form of plea bargain—might make sense. But in this very political case, it’s hard not to suspect that the authorities were taking advantage of the fact that many charged without reason simply wanted the nightmare to end.”


And that is precisely what happens to so many men charged with trying to procure the services of sex workers— even in cases of coercion and entrapment. They are bullied into having their charges dropped by “contributing” to a charity that is run by former sex workers. They pay these former sex workers vast amounts of money they don’t have to begin with to tell them that sex work is soul killing and those who employ services are deplorable. They get to this place by being entrapped by women paid to pretend to be sex workers.


In the case of the G20 arrestees, people were unlawfully arrested and incarcerated because they were out protesting on behalf of their favourite causes. To ask them to contribute money to these causes to have non-existent charges dropped is utterly absurd. They already do enough for these organizations, some volunteering unimaginable hours and energy to bring social and political injustices to light. To say nothing of the fact that many of these organizations are deprived of their leaders at the moment, since their own bail conditions prevent them from working.


So here are a couple of questions and please feel free to comment: why are we criminalizing people who are out seeking pleasure or comfort? Who fight for the comfort and justice of others? The laws in our country state very clearly that sex work and the expression of dissent are legal yet those involved in these activities are constantly penalized and in ways that make their involvement seem immoral and dangerous. I wonder why the fuck I’m paying someone to pretend to be a sex worker so that men can pay former sex workers to tell them sex work is wrong when everyone knows damn well they’re just trying to get charges dropped. I want to know why I’m paying my government to protect me from people who are just trying to tell me things I actually need to hear.



http://www.montrealmirror.com/wp/?p=12628
 

juniper

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Apr 11, 2006
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A number of protesters at the G20 Summit caused extensive private and public property damage. I think this is reason enough for some of the arrests. Why should these "peaceful" protesters get away with violent behaviour? No sympathy whatsoever for them.
 

Miss*Bijou

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Nov 9, 2006
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I find it really interesting that you can apply this to every single protester. :rolleyes:
Actually, it's not interesting.. it's annoying to be honest.


"A number of protesters.."

Might I add that the protesters who did actually cause damage, were not arrested when they did so because there was no police to be found anywhere at the time. (Not like they were under-staffed.... makes you wonder where the hell they were.) So really, those are not the protesters the text refers to.


Aside from those very few (mystery) protesters who did cause damage... there were far, far more peaceful protesters who did not cause any damage but yet did get arrested. Those are the ones referred to in the article.


I'm sorry but you're generalizing and making an uniformed judgment... and it sucks.
 

Bad Santa

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Miss Bijou, don't be surprised if you raise a few hackles when you title a thread on PERB, "Dear Johns".

I'm sure there are more than a few pooners who find the term insulting. You probably wouldn't like it if a pooner titled his thread, " Hey Hos".

As for the comparison between the plight of the protesters with that of johns caught in a sting, I find it tenuous at best.

Prosecutors are always negotiating plea bargains to clear the backlogs and reduce court times.

For the charged person it's often easier and cheaper to plead guilty even if they are not.

That may not seem just but without this process our courts would grind to a halt. Sometimes practicality trumps justice.
 

mistressfreyja

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Aug 25, 2008
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I actually don`t mind and do use the term `ho`to describe myself at times. Always with some humor attached, and not in any derogatory sense.

Though, if I were black, I may not find the term nigger offensive as it was their means of taking back the slang word and saying fuck slavery.

However, unless your name is John which I find a really nice male name, I never use the term.

It`s all relative and completely subjective.

I read a stat in a Bio class that we are all actually only about .002% different from race to race. Percent, people. AKA= fuck all.

Sit in your corner and count your differences (blessings for some), but wouldn`t it be nicer to sit in the middle of the room and accept differences? It`s pretty fun. Most people should try it....but then they might have to let their guard down and accept our similarities at the end of the day.



Miss Bijou, don't be surprised if you raise a few hackles when you title a thread on PERB, "Dear Johns".

I'm sure there are more than a few pooners who find the term insulting. You probably wouldn't like it if a pooner titled his thread, " Hey Hos".

As for the comparison between the plight of the protesters with that of johns caught in a sting, I find it tenuous at best.

Prosecutors are always negotiating plea bargains to clear the backlogs and reduce court times.

For the charged person it's often easier and cheaper to plead guilty even if they are not.

That may not seem just but without this process our courts would grind to a halt. Sometimes practicality trumps justice.
 
H

HubbaHubba

Though, if I were black, I may not find the term nigger offensive as it was their means of taking back the slang word and saying fuck slavery.
Sorry MF but that is absolute BS. They use it as a punchline today not to say f*ck slavery. It is an absolute insult to the people who actually went through slavery. Funny you don't hear Oprah or Bill Cosby saying it when they talk. Nope, just the new hip generation trying to be cool when they talk, not supporting the black people who actually went through a terrible time.

eg. " You're dead n*gger" right before he shoots him. Explain to me how exactly that is saying f*ck slavery?

Ignorance is ignorance, no matter how they try to nice it up.
 

juniper

New member
Apr 11, 2006
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I find it really interesting that you can apply this to every single protester. :rolleyes:
Actually, it's not interesting.. it's annoying to be honest.


"A number of protesters.."

Might I add that the protesters who did actually cause damage, were not arrested when they did so because there was no police to be found anywhere at the time. (Not like they were under-staffed.... makes you wonder where the hell they were.) So really, those are not the protesters the text refers to.


Aside from those very few (mystery) protesters who did cause damage... there were far, far more peaceful protesters who did not cause any damage but yet did get arrested. Those are the ones referred to in the article.


I'm sorry but you're generalizing and making an uniformed judgment... and it sucks.

"uninformed judgement": And how do you know that the number of protestors who caused property damage were very few in number and did not exist at all according to the implications of your use of the term "mystery" as if it were possibly a conspiracy of the state? I know you like to make your point but your use of the term "suck" simply obstructs or prevents discussion. Have I made a mistake by simply disagreeing with you? Perhaps you could try a more disinterested approach.

UOTE]
 

mistressfreyja

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Aug 25, 2008
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Awww....Hubbs...I meant to be sleeping.

I think you missed my point. I'm not condoning any of the slang.

But, my point is that people take it back and throw it in the 'spitter's' face.

Derogatory comments only mean something when you give it your power.

Nigger was a term used during slavery? yes?

'Ho" is derogatory term for a prostitute or one who sells her/his body for money. I don't take offense when I use the term myself. I 'get' to.

'John' is a term that describes someone who buys sex from a prostitute. I would feel the same. Choose your word.

It's all semantics. Oprah nor Bill were part of the underground railroad. I'm glad they make us all recall, but prejudice runs so far as even between sexes.

Call it true, or call it BS. I'm not defending anyone.

I'm saying it's all relative and completely subjective.

Everyone in this world can claim some sort of prejudice, no? Job? Race? Sex? Sexual orientation? Economic status? etc.

My point that I really EVER want to convey is that our differences are so meaningless. Some people are better off than others. Color, gender, family status, education, financial status, win the fucking lottery etc.

We all just survive. I just fight for compassion and empathy. That's really ALL that matters. The rest is subjective.

If I haven't established this earlier, I have humanitarian or PR tendencies, ranging toward socialism. That is NOT up for discussion. Just my core beliefs that are neither right nor wrong....just mine.

Sorry MF but that is absolute BS. They use it as a punchline today not to say f*ck slavery. It is an absolute insult to the people who actually went through slavery. Funny you don't hear Oprah or Bill Cosby saying it when they talk. Nope, just the new hip generation trying to be cool when they talk, not supporting the black people who actually went through a terrible time.

eg. " You're dead n*gger" right before he shoots him. Explain to me how exactly that is saying f*ck slavery?

Ignorance is ignorance, no matter how they try to nice it up.
 

mistressfreyja

New member
Aug 25, 2008
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Boy, it's easy to set one's self up for debate....and not well mediated debate......on this site.

I learned at the poker table, boys.

If no other lesson in life, I controlled all 10 of you, your money, and the house's money.

I dealt fast, I dealt high limit games, and I didn't like BS. Plus, I was a blonde chic. Oh, and this was before the ESPN boom.

This site is just indirect poker.

Hopefully you don't recognize me when I come play at your table during the tournament. I will dress down. You will have no idea who just sat down, and most likely will underestimate.....:)
 
H

HubbaHubba

Boy, it's easy to set one's self up for debate....and not well mediated debate......on this site.

I learned at the poker table, boys.

If no other lesson in life, I controlled all 10 of you, your money, and the house's money.

I dealt fast, I dealt high limit games, and I didn't like BS. Plus, I was a blonde chic. Oh, and this was before the ESPN boom.

This site is just indirect poker.

Hopefully you don't recognize me when I come play at your table during the tournament. I will dress down. You will have no idea who just sat down, and most likely will underestimate.....:)
LOL...oh MF...poker just happens to be one of my specialties;)
 

mistressfreyja

New member
Aug 25, 2008
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Fucker, Hubbs.

You're amusing me at the last moment, right when I'm going to bed.

Poker happens to be something I'm slightly knowledgable in.

Before it became common. During, after.....not so much.
 

mistressfreyja

New member
Aug 25, 2008
1,432
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I called eddie a K-10. One of my fav under-hand hands. i've made a bit of money off of that. I won a tourney with K-10 against all of my fellow BOY dealers (and houseman).

I used to play the boys after work, tourney style.

They always under-estimated me.

Stupid. Tres stupide.
 
H

HubbaHubba

You're amusing me at the last moment, right when I'm going to bed.

Poker happens to be something I'm slightly knowledgable in.

Before it became common. During, after.....not so much.
Slightly knowledgable will lose you a lot of money if you play;)
 
H

HubbaHubba

I called eddie a K-10. One of my fav under-hand hands. i've made a bit of money off of that. I won a tourney with K-10 against all of my fellow BOY dealers (and houseman).

I used to play the boys after work, tourney style.

They always under-estimated me.

Stupid. Tres stupide.
I like cash games over tourney style.
 

Miss*Bijou

Sexy Troublemaker
Nov 9, 2006
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Miss Bijou, don't be surprised if you raise a few hackles when you title a thread on PERB, "Dear Johns".

I'm sure there are more than a few pooners who find the term insulting. You probably wouldn't like it if a pooner titled his thread, " Hey Hos".


Dear Johns was the name of the article, not a title I came up with myself. To be honest, I didn't really think making up a new title for the article was going to be necessary. Additionally, the article refers the infamous "John School", which is why (I assume) the author chose that title.


I've posted a link to a survey in the past that was titled "Trick report", which I personally find is way worse than John, yet didn't get any negative feedback. So I didn't think it would be a problem to post an article called "Dear Johns", an article I did not write myself.. I've often seen the term used in news articles and books, etc.. I'm not sure I agree that it is an insulting or offensive term however it's also not a term I ever use myself.


To answer your question: If a pooner posted a thread with the word "ho" in the title, and the title was the same as the article in this thread, which was not insulting or offensive or judgmental, etc.. towards "hos"/escorts... No, I don't think I would be offended. Assuming the article or the writers views didn't have any offensive content or intent, if I still was offended for some reason, I would take it up with the writer of the piece and not the messenger/poster. LOL (Tongue in cheek)


But if you want, I can change the title to "Dear sex worker client" and "John School" to "sex worker client school"? Or is patron better? I can't change the URL to the website. (Tongue in cheek) I'm just joking. :p I do apologize if anyone is offended by the term, but I'm not sure how else I could have avoided offending you other than by not posting the article, which I feel is kind of silly because I do not think it (the article) is in any way offensive..?!
 

Bad Santa

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Dear Johns was the name of the article, not a title I came up with myself. To be honest, I didn't really think making up a new title for the article was going to be necessary. Additionally, the article refers the infamous "John School", which is why (I assume) the author chose that title.


I've posted a link to a survey in the past that was titled "Trick report", which I personally find is way worse than John, yet didn't get any negative feedback. So I didn't think it would be a problem to post an article called "Dear Johns", an article I did not write myself.. I've often seen the term used in news articles and books, etc.. I'm not sure I agree that it is an insulting or offensive term however it's also not a term I ever use myself.


To answer your question: If a pooner posted a thread with the word "ho" in the title, and the title was the same as the article in this thread, which was not insulting or offensive or judgmental, etc.. towards "hos"/escorts... No, I don't think I would be offended. Assuming the article or the writers views didn't have any offensive content or intent, if I still was offended for some reason, I would take it up with the writer of the piece and not the messenger/poster. LOL (Tongue in cheek)


But if you want, I can change the title to "Dear sex worker client" and "John School" to "sex worker client school"? Or is patron better? I can't change the URL to the website. (Tongue in cheek) I'm just joking. :p I do apologize if anyone is offended by the term, but I'm not sure how else I could have avoided offending you other than by not posting the article, which I feel is kind of silly because I do not think it (the article) is in any way offensive..?!
Like Mistress Freyja, I was up too late last night, Miss Bijou. I wasn't personally offended by the title, "Dear Johns", I was just commenting that some might be. Especially if they have been forced to go through the humiliating experience of "John School".

As for being called a "Trick" , I wonder where that name came from. Halloween, perhaps, "Trick or Treat?" I'd prefer to be called a "Treat" rather than a "Trick", but that's just me!;)
 

uncleg

Well-known member
Jul 25, 2006
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Political correctness is getting out of hand. The masses need to rise up and protest.
 

Miss*Bijou

Sexy Troublemaker
Nov 9, 2006
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Regarding John and Ho? I am a John and I loves me the ho's. Miss*Bijou is a lovely little ho.

LOL I love it... has a nice ring to it.
I think I might sign my emails like this from now on:


Kisses,
Your Little Lovely Ho.....

Bijou xox



haha what do you think? :p




Political correctness is getting out of hand. The masses need to rise up and protest.

Careful, these days that kind of crazy stuff gets you arrested. Stay in line or else... ;)
 
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