Protest the G20, wind up in a gulag

[Shakerod]

international finance talks are basically talks about international free trade. the big unions believe that international free trade will hurt their dues revenue so they fund these protest groups behind the scenes. the protesters are basically ignorant of who their real handlers are but will willingly face the minor jail time they get for their chance to get a moment of what they see as fame

the talks go on unimpeded, the politicos get what they want because the voters are distracted by the protesters, the voters say 'what a bunch of lawless people those protesters are - damn good thing we got jails in this country', the cops get a workout and some overtime, the big unions lose some more dues revenue, we get more shit from china, our taxes go up, and when its all over we die. any more questions?

give thanks we have pooning

Sounds like a conspiracy to me.

 

[Shakerod]

One has nothing to do with the other. That is just poor reasoning.

Sorry but you can't possibly come to a conclusion about one unique situation by bringing up a bunch of other completely unrelated, different issues. That's not an argument, that's a big logic Fail.

Come on now.

Miss Bijou...I like your style!

 

[Miss*Bijou]

Oh really...................

touché!

hehe sometimes I just can't stay away...

just....one....quick....peek. That's all!

But it doesn't always work out that way! lol

 

[ThisEndUp]

Where did you get that 20,000 police number?

OPP says there were 5100 police activated, but not all on the steet at the same time.

I was watching a CBC program that said there were 20,000 cops there. all trained and with equipment. not all on shift at the same time.
And you know that everything on CBC is true.
a billion dollars for security is ....rape of the taxpayer !!!!

The other 14,900 were the UN troops brought in to run the Fema Death Camps...

 

[island-guy]

Sorry but you can't possibly come to a conclusion about one unique situation by bringing up a bunch of other completely unrelated, different issues. That's not an argument, that's a big logic Fail.

So let me understand.

You are saying that instead, we should come to a broad conclusion about an entire country and government based on one unique situation in one city?

So if there are dozens of examples of leftist soft-on-crime attitudes on a year-round basis nationally, we should just forget all of those and look only at 2 specific days in Toronto and decide that the entire country is turning into a fascist police state?

And that is somehow proper logic?

 

[Miss*Bijou]

So let me understand.

You are saying that instead, we should come to a broad conclusion about an entire country and government based on one unique situation in one city?

Did I say that?

I don't recall ever coming to any broad conclusion about an entire country and government but if I'm wrong, please feel free point me to any such comments I made.

So if there are dozens of examples of leftist soft-on-crime attitudes on a year-round basis nationally, we should just forget all of those and look only at 2 specific days in Toronto and decide that the entire country is turning into a fascist police state?

And that is somehow proper logic?

Again, I don't recall ever commenting on other events as those specifically relating to the recent G20 meeting in Toronto so yes, I do believe that would be proper logic.

If I had come to a broad conclusion about an entire country and government based only on one set of isolated incidents, and stubbornly refused to consider that the same conclusion might not be appropriate in another instance - then you are correct, not only would it be faulty logic on my part, I'm pretty sure it would sadly also be sloppy critical thinking.

Again, I don't recall ever coming to such conclusions or making comments to that effect but since you are saying I did, I'll have to wait for you to point me to my posts or comments.

Press Release: Amnesty International

27 June 2010
Toronto and the G8/G20:
Peaceful protest suffers amidst heavy security measures and acts of vandalism

As the Annual General Meeting of Amnesty International Canada (English branch) concluded today in Toronto, Amnesty International members from across the country expressed their very deep concern that important rights associated with peaceful protest have suffered considerably in the city over the weekend.

In connection with the G20 leaders summit, the heavy police and security presence that has permeated the city for several days, as well as acts of vandalism and other violence by numbers of individuals, have contributed to an atmosphere of apprehension and fearfulness that has led many individuals to refrain from or limit their involvement in peaceful demonstrations and other activities.

At a time when the public should be encouraged to actively engage in debate and discussion about pressing global issues, the security measures that were put in place in Toronto in the lead up to the G20 Summit held in the city instead narrowed the space for civic expression and cast a chill over citizen participation in public discourse. Many thousands of individuals did take part in public events such as the “People First” demonstration during the afternoon of June 26, but felt apprehensive while doing so. Many others did not take part out of a sense of unease and fearfulness.

In meeting in Toronto at the same time as G8 and G20 leaders have held their summits in Canada, Amnesty International members have sought to draw attention to important human rights issues that should be priority concerns for both bodies. We have highlighted that it is a particularly key juncture in the development of the G20 as an emerging body that will exert growing influence on world economic, political and social affairs. We have emphasized, therefore, that we look to them to take action to ensure that human rights are brought to the heart of the global effort to fight poverty, particularly through the millennium development goals. We look to them to ensure that respect for universal human rights will become the hallmark of their deliberations and decision making.

Yet at a time when human rights need so very much to come to the fore, we have instead witnessed and experienced a curtailment of civil liberties. On the streets, protesters were faced with high fences, new weaponry, massive surveillance, and the intimidating impact of the overwhelming police presence. Combined with uncertainty and worry about unclear powers of arrest, this created an atmosphere in which countless individuals felt unable or too fearful to exercise their rights to freedom of expression and assembly and participate in rallies and other events which would have offered them an opportunity to express their views on a range of important national and international issues.

We unequivocally condemn the acts of vandalism and violence that have been carried out by numbers of individuals, particularly during the evening of June 26. Such acts are criminal and undermine the safety of the many thousands of individuals involved in peaceful protest. We recognize that police have a responsibility to respond to such actions, to protect public safety, prevent damage to property, and ensure the safety of leaders and other officials attending the G20 Summit.

There are concerns, however, about possible police excesses, including reports of journalists being arrested or constrained in the course of covering confrontations between police and demonstrators. In one reported case, the journalist was apparently beaten in the course of being arrested. Nearly 500 people are reported to have been arrested, as of the morning of June 27th. Witnesses have reported that some of those arrested appear to have been engaging in peaceful protest. It has not been possible to get clear information about which tactics and weapons police have deployed in the course of securing specific areas and responding to incidents of both violence and legitimate protest. This lack of clear information has further fueled misunderstanding and fears about police actions as protests are expected to continue.

The amount of money, reported to be in excess of $1 billion, that has been spent on security measures in Toronto over the past several days has been unprecedented. Yet on one hand extensive acts of vandalism and other violence were carried out and on the other hand thousands of individuals felt nervous and uneasy about exercising their right to engage in peaceful protest.

This cannot become the hallmark of how the G20 conducts its business. Instead, we call on G20 leaders to ensure that future Summits are carried out in ways that maximize rather than restrict rights associated with peaceful protest, particularly freedom of expression and assembly.

Lessons must be learned from these events. We call on the Canadian government and the government of the province of Ontario to cooperate in launching an independent review of the security measures that were put in place for the G8 and G20 Summits. The review should include opportunities for public input and the results should be released to the public. Among other issues, the review should consider:

•The impact of security measures, including decisions about the location and venues for the two summits, on the protection of human rights, including the freedoms of expression and assembly.

• The ways in which police operations and the use of legal provisions such as the Public Works Protection Act have impacted the rights of the many thousands of people living, working and operating businesses within and near the G20 security zone.

 

[Miss*Bijou]

Sticking the public with the bill for the bankers’ crisis
- article written by Naomi Klein (from Monday's Globe and Mail)




Interesting read *here* and *here* and also *here*

 

[Shakerod]

So let me understand.

You are saying that instead, we should come to a broad conclusion about an entire country and government based on one unique situation in one city?

So if there are dozens of examples of leftist soft-on-crime attitudes on a year-round basis nationally, we should just forget all of those and look only at 2 specific days in Toronto and decide that the entire country is turning into a fascist police state?

And that is somehow proper logic?

When it comes to the law we are far too liberal with who the Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects.

This will be the fourth time I can remember that they have set up illegal security zones. APEC 1997, Quebec City 2001, Vancouver 2010, Toronto 2010

 

[Shakerod]

Sticking the public with the bill for the bankers’ crisis
- article written by Naomi Klein (from Monday's Globe and Mail)




Interesting read *here* and *here*

Of course, what was happening outside was a great distraction from the bankers taking over the world inside.

 

[Cock Throppled]

One has nothing to do with the other. That is just poor reasoning.

Sorry but you can't possibly come to a conclusion about one unique situation by bringing up a bunch of other completely unrelated, different issues. That's not an argument, that's a big logic Fail.

Come on now.

Hardly a Fail, as yyou colloquially put it.

The argument was our rights are being taken away.

I presented examples where our rights are not only protected, but seen to be well looked after by the courts and Charter.

I think arguing that actions at one, never-to-be-seen-again event in Toronto is prooof "the Man" is removing the Rights of Canadians is the real Fail.

 

[island-guy]

So much for "peaceful protesters arrested for nothing"

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/M...onto+police+review+actions/3216079/story.html

The recovered items included body armour, sledge hammers, machetes, an electric drill, saws, crowbars, shields, aluminum bats, dog repellent, bamboo rods and bottles of hot sauce.

"No one should be so naive as to think these people were there for the purpose of lawful protest," Blair said during a Toronto news conference.

But wait, let me guess, the police are just lying and making it all up.

And for those too dumb to realize why hot sauce is a problem, let me throw some in your face and see if you figure it out.

 

[Steez]

So much for "peaceful protesters arrested for nothing"

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/M...onto+police+review+actions/3216079/story.html



But wait, let me guess, the police are just lying and making it all up.

And for those too dumb to realize why hot sauce is a problem, let me throw some in your face and see if you figure it out.

So thats an excuse to have your civil liberties suspended for a few days?

 

[island-guy]

So thats an excuse to have your civil liberties suspended for a few days?

My civil liberties were just fine.

If you are asking if a person breaking the law is a reason to suspend their civil liberties, uh ya.

Or are you saying that the right to freedom of the person should mean that no one can ever be put in jail for anything?

I'm sure that there are a lot of criminals in prison who agree with you that they would like to have their civil liberties back and be let free from jail which is restricting their freedom of movement and freedom of association.

If you don't break any laws, then you aren't likely to get your freedom taken away

 

[Miss*Bijou]

So thats an excuse to have your civil liberties suspended for a few days?

That's exactly what I was going to say. There is no shortage of accounts and footage of regular people engaging in peaceful protest, being charged and arrested by police. I'm not sure how that can simply be acceptable because of what *some* other protesters apparently had in their possession. That's cause it's still not acceptable.


Yet when the "violent" protesters were vandalizing property, wouldn't you know it...there was not 1 cop in sight. (I guess they were all busy charging and arresting the peaceful protesters! Oh, and the journalists. lol)

Had they somehow "forgotten" their police cruiser behind? And somehow just walked (?) away to do (?) and ended up so far they never realized or saw it being set on fire?

Good job there, officers.



But I think that Island-guy has just decided already that he is right and he hasn't bothered to even consider what he's being shown mostly because he is so intent on disagreeing with you.

I just hope -for his sake- that he doesn't have to find out the hard way if one day he is personally affected by something and that it forces him to get up and speak up in protest. Or maybe he prefers to accept injustice - or whatever else - without making any waves..?

I don't know, but if so, that might explain his disregard for others' right to peaceful protest. (Or, if he's a cop himself and not being very objective...that would also explain why he's been so cantankerous.)

 

[Miss*Bijou]

My civil liberties were just fine.

If you are asking if a person breaking the law is a reason to suspend their civil liberties, uh ya.

Or are you saying that the right to freedom of the person should mean that no one can ever be put in jail for anything?

I'm sure that there are a lot of criminals in prison who agree with you that they would like to have their civil liberties back and be let free from jail which is restricting their freedom of movement and freedom of association.

If you don't break any laws, then you aren't likely to get your freedom taken away

The whole point is that hundreds of people who were not breaking the law were arrested!

Are we talking about the same event here, or what?! sheesh.


And your comment:

If you are asking if a person breaking the law is a reason to suspend their civil liberties, uh ya.

So who gets to decide if you are breaking the law and determine they can take your civil liberties away on the spot?

Do you know the meaning of civil liberties? (I honestly think you don't - so you might want to look it up.)



http://ccla.org/

CCLA (The Canadian Civil Liberties Association) denounces the sweeping arrests at G20

Reporters arrested, CCLA civil rights monitors arrested, over 500 people in detention, police unwilling to provide access to lawyers, cellphones seized, what is going on? Police will say that 4 to 7 police cars were set on fire and that there was much looting and spray painting, pop cans and rocks were thrown and more vandalism was planned at the fence or elsewhere. Is the policing proportionate to the threat?

Up until late Saturday afternoon, police actions had been restrained. Certainly, it had been disproportionate at times with hundreds of police officers surrounding 75 peaceful marchers, large groups of police officers circling one lone protester to search a back pack and umbrellas and water bottles being seized . We also witnessed people intercepted and detained, even charged for not identifying themselves. Friday’s marches were tense in a couple of places : police officers rammed their bicycles in protesters, verbal confrontations occurred but it ended peacefully. Saturday started out with the large People First march with a trajectory negotiated and approved by the police: down University, west on Queens, north on Spadina and back to Queen’s Park. The protest marshalls knew that there would be splinter groups wanting to reach the fence to spray it or put their banner up. Looters were also expected to take advantage of the situation.

And it happened: it is unclear why police cruisers would be in the vicinity of the protest. Throughout the week, police officers circulated in unmarked vans. While hundreds of riot police officers were blockading streets south of Queen, vandals got out and threw rocks along Queen and up Yonge (reports vary on the numbers, from 50 to 100). Confrontations occurred as well on King.

It is still unclear why the people gathered at Queen’s Park at 5 pm were suddenly charged by riot police. It appears that the small group of black clad vandals was still out to spray paint and throw rocks in windows. Certainly, however, not all those at Queen’s Park fell into this category. Since then, over 500 people have been arrested and none are being released. It would appear that the presumption of innocence and the protection against arbitrary arrest had been suspended during the G20.

CCLA is concerned about the conditions of detention: people were being denied access to lawyers, they were unable to contact their families and were not promptly released.

The CCLA released its preliminary report on the G20 Summit policing and security today, entitled “A Breach of the Peace”. The report is based on the first-hand observations of over 50 human rights monitors that CCLA dispatched to observe the police presence at G20-related demonstrations throughout the week.


It is the opinion of the Canadian Civil Liberties Association that police conduct during the G20 Summit was, at times, disproportionate, arbitrary and excessive. In our view, despite instances of commendable and professional conduct, the policing and security efforts, especially after 5PM on June 26 and June 27, failed to demonstrate commitment to Canada’s constitutional values.


For the EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

 

[Steez]

My civil liberties were just fine.

If you are asking if a person breaking the law is a reason to suspend their civil liberties, uh ya.

Or are you saying that the right to freedom of the person should mean that no one can ever be put in jail for anything?

I'm sure that there are a lot of criminals in prison who agree with you that they would like to have their civil liberties back and be let free from jail which is restricting their freedom of movement and freedom of association.

If you don't break any laws, then you aren't likely to get your freedom taken away

Your rights arent really "fine" if the govt can make a secret law. The public workers protection act or w/e its called and not publicly announce it until its being used on people. If your within 5m of a seceruity perimiter you must submit ID if asked. But now police will just arrest anyone no matter how far away from the perimeter. Now if you think ALL 500 people in TORONTONAMO BAY are the anarchists setting the fires and what not then you are a koolaid head. Lots of plain clothesed people did the vandalism too. However detaining random people far from the riots, or before they even happened for having a camera is total bullshit. They can have cameras everywhere but a tax paying citizen with a camera is scary...... He might have bleach or hot sauce is his pockets. OMG what if he combined hots auce and bleach, we'd have a major event on our hands here people!?

 

[Cock Throppled]

Being arrested does not necessarily mean you will be charged.

As for the government passing secret laws - hate to break this to you, unshine, but laws are passed all the time we don't necessarily hear about.

If you are so concerned start monitoring legislative meetings.

 

[HubbaHubba]

That's exactly what I was going to say. There is no shortage of accounts and footage of regular people engaging in peaceful protest, being charged and arrested by police. I'm not sure how that can simply be acceptable because of what *some* other protesters apparently had in their possession. That's cause it's still not acceptable.


Yet when the "violent" protesters were vandalizing property, wouldn't you know it...there was not 1 cop in sight. (I guess they were all busy charging and arresting the peaceful protesters! Oh, and the journalists. lol)

Had they somehow "forgotten" their police cruiser behind? And somehow just walked (?) away to do (?) and ended up so far they never realized or saw it being set on fire?

Good job there, officers.



But I think that Island-guy has just decided already that he is right and he hasn't bothered to even consider what he's being shown mostly because he is so intent on disagreeing with you.

I just hope -for his sake- that he doesn't have to find out the hard way if one day he is personally affected by something and that it forces him to get up and speak up in protest. Or maybe he prefers to accept injustice - or whatever else - without making any waves..?

I don't know, but if so, that might explain his disregard for others' right to peaceful protest. (Or, if he's a cop himself and not being very objective...that would also explain why he's been so cantankerous.)

R U there seeing it first hand?

 

[ThisEndUp]

ramble, rant etc. [/FONT]

thought you left?

 

[Shakerod]

R U there seeing it first hand?

You don't have to be there to know that the Black Bloc are Agent Provocatuers, there is a history of them staging protests over the last few years.

The bigger issue is: what took place at this G20 meeting? There are 46 States going bankrupt, the EU is collapsing, and the U.S. dollar won't be far behind.