Customers right to shop...

rubintugger · Jun 24, 2009

I've been a PERB pooner for many years, and I've always enjoyed having this resource for my hobby. It has no doubt saved me many bad experiences, and made me aware of so many great ones. Thank you so much, PERB.

In reading BCMoD's response in a closed thread, it mentioned that the advertisers here "with more business accumen than thier TERB and MERB counterparts" lobbied sucessfully to have the board implement the current limitations on information sharing, ie. "free advertising".

Well, I hate to say it, but information is what I come here for. Period. If you're stopping the free flow of information, and only giving me the paid advertisers information, then the board is not giving me all that I'm looking for. Sure, there will be some useful information, but not as much as there used to be.

As more and more PERBites become less frequent visitors, the value for advertisers shrinks, and the incentive to advertise disappears. And, along with that, so does the board. Its not like PERB has a monopoly on escort reviews. I've recently been visiting two other sites that are free of the controversy currently plagueing PERB, and they seem to be growing rapidly.

Here's a business example: A friend of mine sells computer software. He sells tools for developers, which allow them to develop applications much faster. And he gives them the source code, and sells it cheap. Most of his competitors make thier clients buy "runtime" versions, or charge a user fee for each copy they sell. He doesn't. Use it, give it away, go for it.

And his business grows every year. Cause developers keep buying the latest version, keep upgrading, getting the newest stuff, and are happy to pay over and over and over again.

Likewise here. Advertisers get a lot of benefit from being paid advertisers. The ability to start threads about themselves, post pictures daily, post availability and other vital information... these are all benefits non-advertisers don't get. So you do get something for your advertising dollar.

Contact information, reviews and such of non advertisers is an important part of the information we come here for. I'm not endorsing spamming the site with unpaid advertising, but the occasional mention is all. Go ahead and ban the abusers, but not the casual mention.

If this is a vital and healthy place to exchange information, you will have lots of users visiting on a regular basis, seeing your paid advertising. And if the mention on PERB of a non advertiser ends up getting that non-advertiser some business, they might just start to advertise!

But limit the access, and you limit the reasons to come here, and you limit the user base, and you limit the effectiveness of your advertising. Being the only ones allowed to advertise on a dead board is not great business... and it looks like that is the way things are heading, at least for the Winnipeg area.

My 2 cents worth...

Rubin

wpgguy · Jun 24, 2009

Great post Rub, I feel exactly the same way.

adidas · Jun 25, 2009

you got to put yourself into their shoe(site Mod) to see their perspective on shit.

this is a money making business for them! SPs pay AND THE SHOULD!!! and pooners DONT! the business modo we have here is the SP is the 100% of for their revenue. they are not counting the pooners to come here to advertise with then. until they start offering advertising for others services like computer software, oil change, or lawn care on this forum. then we can say it's unfair.

so if they start slacking off on SPs that tries for sneak in their little free advertising on their post. THEY ARE LOSING MONEY [period] and they dont like that.

wpgguy · Jun 25, 2009

adidas said:
you got to put yourself into their shoe(site Mod) to see their perspective on shit.

this is a money making business for them! SPs pay AND THE SHOULD!!! and pooners DONT! the business modo we have here is the SP is the 100% of for their revenue. they are not counting the pooners to come here to advertise with then. until they start offering advertising for others services like computer software, oil change, or lawn care on this forum. then we can say it's unfair.

so if they start slacking off on SPs that tries for sneak in their little free advertising on their post. THEY ARE LOSING MONEY [period] and they dont like that.

The biggest issue (at least for me) isn't the "Rule" itself but the fact that the rules are different for PERB than they are for TERB and MERB. The fact that a pooner can't post the contact info of a non-advertiser even if she is a scam artist kind of goes against what a review board is all about. Again, at least it does in my opinion.

adidas · Jun 25, 2009

they, the MOd, DONT give a shit about you, if you're getting scam or not.
if you got screwed good, with a good review to tell. good for you!! and if you got screwed bad, too f%^^*#@ bad! live and learn.

it is just the bottom line to them!!!!
if they let you post info for the scam, non-paying, it is still advertising.
you know the saying......no bad publicity, is bad publicity.....or something like that right?

even the paid advert SPs are scamming pooners with their 100% fake photo. they dont care! as long the $$$$ is rolling in.

and i dont blame at all! as long as the cash cow still producing........Mod keep up the the good work.

Avery · Jun 25, 2009

rubintugger said:
I've been a PERB pooner for many years, and I've always enjoyed having this resource for my hobby. It has no doubt saved me many bad experiences, and made me aware of so many great ones. Thank you so much, PERB.

In reading BCMoD's response in a closed thread, it mentioned that the advertisers here "with more business accumen than thier TERB and MERB counterparts" lobbied sucessfully to have the board implement the current limitations on information sharing, ie. "free advertising".

Well, I hate to say it, but information is what I come here for. Period. If you're stopping the free flow of information, and only giving me the paid advertisers information, then the board is not giving me all that I'm looking for. Sure, there will be some useful information, but not as much as there used to be.

As more and more PERBites become less frequent visitors, the value for advertisers shrinks, and the incentive to advertise disappears. And, along with that, so does the board. Its not like PERB has a monopoly on escort reviews. I've recently been visiting two other sites that are free of the controversy currently plagueing PERB, and they seem to be growing rapidly.

Here's a business example: A friend of mine sells computer software. He sells tools for developers, which allow them to develop applications much faster. And he gives them the source code, and sells it cheap. Most of his competitors make thier clients buy "runtime" versions, or charge a user fee for each copy they sell. He doesn't. Use it, give it away, go for it.

And his business grows every year. Cause developers keep buying the latest version, keep upgrading, getting the newest stuff, and are happy to pay over and over and over again.

Likewise here. Advertisers get a lot of benefit from being paid advertisers. The ability to start threads about themselves, post pictures daily, post availability and other vital information... these are all benefits non-advertisers don't get. So you do get something for your advertising dollar.

Contact information, reviews and such of non advertisers is an important part of the information we come here for. I'm not endorsing spamming the site with unpaid advertising, but the occasional mention is all. Go ahead and ban the abusers, but not the casual mention.

If this is a vital and healthy place to exchange information, you will have lots of users visiting on a regular basis, seeing your paid advertising. And if the mention on PERB of a non advertiser ends up getting that non-advertiser some business, they might just start to advertise!

But limit the access, and you limit the reasons to come here, and you limit the user base, and you limit the effectiveness of your advertising. Being the only ones allowed to advertise on a dead board is not great business... and it looks like that is the way things are heading, at least for the Winnipeg area.

My 2 cents worth...

Rubin

AMEN, brother, AMEN!! A superb post! One of the best in ages.

adidas said:
they, the MOd, DONT give a shit about you, if you're getting scam or not.
if you got screwed good, with a good review to tell. good for you!! and if you got screwed bad, too f%^^*#@ bad! live and learn.

it is just the bottom line to them!!!!
if they let you post info for the scam, non-paying, it is still advertising.
you know the saying......no bad publicity, is bad publicity.....or something like that right?

even the paid advert SPs are scamming pooners with their 100% fake photo. they dont care! as long the $$$$ is rolling in.

and i dont blame at all! as long as the cash cow still producing........Mod keep up the the good work.

A not so superb post. So, you say the mods don't give a shit what the pooners think, yet you, a pooner, support them?

It's not about free advertising; I understand that part of the argument. It's about whether or not reviewers can include contact info and/or web site links for non-advertising SPs in reviews. It's allowed on TERB and MERB, but not on PERB. When BcMod made his post the other day, he didn't explain the reason for the difference; he just said that's the way it is and that's the way it's going to say.

IMO, not being allowed to include essential information in a review diminishes its value to other pooners.

Moderator-1 · Jun 25, 2009

I guess the typo "threw you!"

Avery, I believe you have misrepresented what was posted and explained. The answer is below.

Avery said:
When BcMod made his post the other day, he didn't explain the reason for the difference; he just said that's the way it is and that's the way it's going to say....

"The PERB ladies campaigned aggressively and successfully for the current advertising rules. Their case was simple. Why pay to advertise when an unpaid advertiser (or other members) can put their phone number, weblink, pictures, and a description of their services in their profile and/or signature (... or in a public post)? The answer is simple, it would make no sense to pay to advertise if this could be done for free."

Application of this type of rule should not be too difficult to understand based on the smaller market (and posting community/membership) as exists on Perb.

rubintugger · Jun 25, 2009

The key is the level of access paid advertisers get. The big red letters, unlimited photos and threads about their current availability, this is what paid advertisers are paying for.

By excuding any of the information about unpaid advertisers, you destroy any value a review ciould have, and thereby, diminish the entire board (after all, this is a "review board", isn't it?).

If the only complete reviews you're going to allow are for the paid advertisers, then you're really cutting down the information we're looking for, so why would someone come here? The same information is posted on other boards, with *all* the details.

You might respond that "if you really want to contact an SP that has been reviewed, you can easily find the information on EC, CL or where-ever else the SP was first contacted". And you would be right. But why should I bother to have to look that up? On other boards, the information is right there.

So, if SP's want to get value for thier advertising, they need to have hits on the website. And you get that when you have the information pooners are looking for. If they think that a mere mention of contact info for another SP is going to hurt thier business, well, that's really short sighted. A dead board will hurt them a lot more...

Rubin

SexyBoy · Jun 25, 2009

Last time I check we can make a review on anyone we want. I always have all of my posts are still there.

However if a SP comes on here to advertise when she hasn't paid it isn't allowed. I am ok with that.

Now if someone in question has caused trouble for the mods by not following the rules I can see why all threads associated with that person might be delt with.

I also know that the girls in red do get extremely upset about a SP posting that hasn't paid.

This is a review board we are here to post and read reviews on anyone.

SP's on the other hand are not allowed to advertise unless they pay.

Many of the SP's who do not pay follow these rules also and do not get banned. We can still PM each other even.

There are a few SP's who just refuse to pay for the advertising I think they should be delt with.

mikeoman · Jun 26, 2009

SexyBoy said:
Last time I check we can make a review on anyone we want. I always have all of my posts are still there.

However if a SP comes on here to advertise when she hasn't paid it isn't allowed. I am ok with that.

No, the problem is not that girls who haven't paid are advertising. The problem is that if I as a pooner post a review, I cannot put ANY contact information in there at all. No phoner number, no website, no link to her EC ad or anything. I bet the mods would even edit my post of I put in something like "You can find her ad on the Winnipeg section of EC".

That is not right and that is what we Winnipeg guys are critical of.

I do understand that PERB is not a free service, and that SPs do pay to have their name in red, can post links, start advertising threads or whatever. If an SP comes in here without paying and starts aggressively promoting herself, then by all means reprimand her, if those are the rules. But don't treat me like a shill or a "white knight" if I give contact info for a lady that I am reviewing.

rubintugger · Jun 26, 2009

mikeoman said:
No, the problem is not that girls who haven't paid are advertising. The problem is that if I as a pooner post a review, I cannot put ANY contact information in there at all. No phoner number, no website, no link to her EC ad or anything. I bet the mods would even edit my post of I put in something like "You can find her ad on the Winnipeg section of EC".

That is not right and that is what we Winnipeg guys are critical of.

I do understand that PERB is not a free service, and that SPs do pay to have their name in red, can post links, start advertising threads or whatever. If an SP comes in here without paying and starts aggressively promoting herself, then by all means reprimand her, if those are the rules. But don't treat me like a shill or a "white knight" if I give contact info for a lady that I am reviewing.

Exactly... couldn't have said it better... longer, maybe, but not better...

Rubin

Avery · Jun 26, 2009

rubintugger said:
Exactly... couldn't have said it better... longer, maybe, but not better...

Rubin

LOL!! Me too!

SexyBoy · Jun 26, 2009

Strange I posted reviews of girls from broadways and none of them advertise. Isn't that giving contact info?

I have even posted reviews of girls from EC that do not advertise.

Has something changed all of a sudden?

If you look around the forums there are plenty of guys posting reviews for SP's that have not paid and leaving some contact info. Maybe not a phone number etc but a name of the place they can be found.

themainmanwpg · Jun 26, 2009

I don't really understand why all you guys are complaining about the rules here. The rules on this board have been like this for a long time and I'm even more surprised that the guys bitching about then have tons of posts. If you don't like the rules the mods have set up on this board don't log in, it's that simple, and then you can use cerb, terb, and merb. so quit bitching and fuck off to the other boards cause I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who is sick of your posts asking the mods question's!

Moderator-1 · Jun 26, 2009

Let's analyse this post for accuracy... shall we ?

rubintugger said:
The key is the level of access paid advertisers get. The big red letters, unlimited photos and threads about their current availability, this is what paid advertisers are paying for.

1. Perhaps it's my screen, but I don't see big red letters. The red print is the same size as every other members' handle.
2a. There is a limit to the number of photos an advertiser can post.
2b. Advertisers can post a maximum of two messages per day per thread. (recently increased from one).

We're giving Perb advertisers (and only advertisers) a unique right to promote their business and provide their contact information. We make non-advertisers take down their contact information, just as we do members.

rubintugger said:
By excuding any of the information about unpaid advertisers, you destroy any value a review ciould have, and thereby, diminish the entire board

Who excludes information about unpaid advertisers? NOT I ... nor to the best of my knowledge any of my colleague mods. What we do take down are embedded links and direct contact information referring readers back to non-perb sites, etc.

And when I do "take down" the occasional post as was done on the Manitoba thread earlier this month, you had better believe I have a damn good reason for doing so. And while I'm generally not at liberty to provide the reason - all the reader has to keep in mind is: "not in the best interests of Perb..." to leave the post up.

rubintugger said:
You might respond that "if you really want to contact an SP that has been reviewed, you can easily find the information on EC, CL or where-ever else the SP was first contacted". And you would be right. But why should I bother to have to look that up? On other boards, the information is right there.

You're right! That is my response.
Moreover, that's the other boards. Our board operates under a different set of rules, conventions and protocols. Always please remember, what's in the best interests of Perb.

rubintugger said:
So, if SP's want to get value for thier advertising, they need to have hits on the website. And you get that when you have the information pooners are looking for. If they think that a mere mention of contact info for another SP is going to hurt thier business, well, that's really short sighted. A dead board will hurt them a lot more... Rubin

We're not a dead board, we're not a dying board.... far from it. There are thousands of users and constantly growing. At any given time there can be upwards of 400+ members and viewers.

Rubin: In making your posts and feelings known, we believe you have the best interests of Perb at heart. We hope you'll continue to post and support perb.

the toad · Jun 26, 2009

themainmanwpg said:
I don't really understand why all you guys are complaining about the rules here. The rules on this board have been like this for a long time and I'm even more surprised that the guys bitching about then have tons of posts. If you don't like the rules the mods have set up on this board don't log in, it's that simple, and then you can use cerb, terb, and merb. so quit bitching and fuck off to the other boards cause I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who is sick of your posts asking the mods question's!

Thank you mainman. I couldn't agree with you more. This entire arguement all came about recently from B.S. that is going on behind the scenes from certain individuals who are just playing games, trying to play around these rules.

Reminds me of how every so often we have to have a piss match about the prices that girls charge. If you can't afford to drive it, don't get in it. Like wise, if you don't like the rules, go elsewhere.

BcMod · Jun 26, 2009

Closed

Time to close the thread, both sides have posted amply on the topic. Yes, I know, big bad mod is closing the thread. If I was 1/2 as bad as you make me out to be I would never have allowed this thread, and would have deleted it and banned those few people who continue to go on about a topic that apparently many of us are tired of re-hashing.

To finish it off, you have always been allowed to review non-advertisers and to say that they work at X or that they can be found on EC or on CL, those are reviews with basic information.

When you provide specific contact information, how then are we to distinguish between a legit review or a shill review where someone has asked, or offered "I will post your contact information if you give me a discount"? Or where a girl reviews herself and throws in the contact information?

Yes, both of these used to happen very often.

Thank you to those of you who keep cool heads and are able to see the side of reason.

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