Where to move the Hastings st tent city

[PuntMeister]

These are people. Bad life choices, bad upbringing, bad rap, whatever. They are still people with no legitimate home. I say give them a spot they can choose to go, but not be forced to go to. Not some social housing or recovery house that many will reject, just a place they can go to, set up their tent, and not get kicked out of in a few months.

However, once such a place is available, then cleaning up the streets and unauthorized tent cities seems much more justified. But constantly kicking these folks out of parks and off streets when they got no where else to go just seems like we live in an ass-wipe society with total governance failure for the people that just need a small scratch of land to eek out their existence.

😢 Sad.

 

[jamasianman]

The solution isn't that simple. If the government buys an area of land for them there's no guarantee they'll want to go. The downtown core has free injection sites and access to public washrooms and water. Also the high traffic of people downtown who give out food or change, and homeless shelters or soup kitchens. If you put all these at the new land site you can have people want to go as popularity increases, but there will soon be an overpopulation problem. And not to mention the area around it automatically decreases in value and safety issues as the disenfranchised flock there. Needles and hygiene become a problem and its hard to police a tent city. There will still be fire hazards, sex assaults, violence and the common problems that happen in large tent cities. Moving them somewhere else isn't a solution. Change the vagrancy laws and arrest them all. Put them in a new riverview like super facility until they recover and then get them employed in government housing

 

[rlock]

I say move them all to Chip Wilson's house.

 

[LLLurkJ2]

For some reason we're all like 'that poor victim' when its any form abuse, but we expect a switch to flip and for them to have all their shit worked out when they turn 18. Its the same people, just no longer as cute.

 

[FreeG]

From a quick scan, most of the comments seems to fall into (regarding the homeless folks):
- they're druggies/criminals, they chose their fate, get rid of them all
- they have mental health issues, they deserve treatment and humanity, they all need help

In truth, I think there's a combination of two, plus other circumstances (incl some being homeless by choice, some having bad luck/losing homes due to costs, some just without ability to keep their sh!t together, etc, etc.

And honestly, I don't know what the right answer is. I'd appreciate some links/ research to show what solutions HAVE worked elsewhere (other cities), as this is not a new problem. I'm going to take a SWAG that homelessness in cities has existed since the first cities in Mesopotamia. The main difference IMO is that in the 21st century, a larger % of people care and think society can do better (which it can).

I think there are some options for a rough breakdown of some homeless folks:
- some need psychological/psychiatric help: give them the help and give them a chance to defeat their mental demons (as well as temp housing, food, job, etc)
- some need a decent job - give them the job, some housing, and give them a chance to feel good about themselves and succeed
- some need to be removed from drugs - give them whatever anti-addiction services are best and get them out of the scene to give them a chance to succeed
- some don't want help or are too far gone to be helped (incl criminals, very mentally ill, etc), or they take the above and still f' it up. I don't know - maybe put them in institutions, turn them into Soylent Green, perform medical experiments on them... Honestly, the current prison system doesn't seem to help reduce crime, so not sure what can be expected to help those who simply can't seem to help themselves, so I'd defer to some pragmatic experts. But I DO believe that the % of those fittting into this category (after trying the 1st 3 things) is smaller than what some of you seem to think.

 

[westwoody]

And in your case, one who comes across intelligently but is still wet behind the ears and thinks everything is ONLY black and white.

I was walking around Main and Hastings in the 70s. Don’t know how that’s wet behind the ears.

My brother was a volunteer outreach worker down there from the 90s, walking around alleys looking for people in distress. He quit when he started finding dead ones all the time.

 

[westwoody]

Unfortunately our problem is identical to that of LA, San Francisco and Seattle. Too many drug addicts, no one doing anything to actually solve the problem.

Add unaffordable housing, where exactly are these homeless supposed to live? More and more single family dwellings are bought by corporations as rentals.
Even in Winnipeg there are guys buying up houses for cash, flipping them for profit but often keeping them for revenue. My own house has gone up over 400%, many younger people I know will never be able to buy a house or condo.

 

[ModSquad]

No one here was living in 1933, so the analogy is absurd.

Stay on topic!

Next stop is the bus to Perbatory.

 

[VinVan]

From a quick scan, most of the comments seems to fall into (regarding the homeless folks):
- they're druggies/criminals, they chose their fate, get rid of them all
- they have mental health issues, they deserve treatment and humanity, they all need help

In truth, I think there's a combination of two, plus other circumstances (incl some being homeless by choice, some having bad luck/losing homes due to costs, some just without ability to keep their sh!t together, etc, etc.

And honestly, I don't know what the right answer is. I'd appreciate some links/ research to show what solutions HAVE worked elsewhere (other cities), as this is not a new problem. I'm going to take a SWAG that homelessness in cities has existed since the first cities in Mesopotamia. The main difference IMO is that in the 21st century, a larger % of people care and think society can do better (which it can).

I think there are some options for a rough breakdown of some homeless folks:
- some need psychological/psychiatric help: give them the help and give them a chance to defeat their mental demons (as well as temp housing, food, job, etc)
- some need a decent job - give them the job, some housing, and give them a chance to feel good about themselves and succeed
- some need to be removed from drugs - give them whatever anti-addiction services are best and get them out of the scene to give them a chance to succeed
- some don't want help or are too far gone to be helped (incl criminals, very mentally ill, etc), or they take the above and still f' it up. I don't know - maybe put them in institutions, turn them into Soylent Green, perform medical experiments on them... Honestly, the current prison system doesn't seem to help reduce crime, so not sure what can be expected to help those who simply can't seem to help themselves, so I'd defer to some pragmatic experts. But I DO believe that the % of those fittting into this category (after trying the 1st 3 things) is smaller than what some of you seem to think.

Portugal has had some success with this by decriminalizing drugs:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/portugal-america-drug-crisis-decriminalize_n_5dbad944e4b066da552d4a6d

To be fair, so has China, but by other means.

Methinks, a lot of this discussion comes down to values:

1. March them all off to the gulag (hmmm…how is that working in the US?)

2. Commit to some kind of reform that makes drug addiction a health issue and get folks support.

 

[Big_Guy_Rye]

All what decriminalizing does is move goalposts to make the paperwork look better for whichever political party. Doesn't solve the issue, just hides it better.

Methinks, a lot of this discussion comes down to values:

1. March them all off to the gulag (hmmm…how is that working in the US?)

2. Commit to some kind of reform that makes drug addiction a health issue and get folks support.

Funny thing with such binary thinking is that the more 'humane" option is never around when it's needed, even when it's staring them right in the face. So then their bad habits bolsters negativity in the community, getting them frustrated to the point 'the gulag' seems to be the more PRAGMATIC solution to the problem. So don't be too quick to laugh at the gulag, when the other way hasn't been working for a very long time....

 

[masterpoonhunter]

Didn't we 'gulag' the lot of them pre the 2010 Olympics?
Can't recall exactly but the city was pretty sparkling at that time.
But oh, just think if the GULAG OPTION was initiated.
Woo EEE, the cry from the bleeding hearts.
It would be deafening.

 

[VinVan]

All what decriminalizing does is move goalposts to make the paperwork look better for whichever political party. Doesn't solve the issue, just hides it better.



Funny thing with such binary thinking is that the more 'humane" option is never around when it's needed, even when it's staring them right in the face. So then their bad habits bolsters negativity in the community, getting them frustrated to the point 'the gulag' seems to be the more PRAGMATIC solution to the problem. So don't be too quick to laugh at the gulag, when the other way hasn't been working for a very long time....

Heroin and cocaine are still illegal in Canada, so I’m not sure to what you’re referring when you say “the other way hasn’t been working for a very long time.”

Decriminalization of hard drugs is only now being discussed at attempted in very small pockets in Canada, specifically BC.

 

[VinVan]

Didn't we 'gulag' the lot of them pre the 2010 Olympics?
Can't recall exactly but the city was pretty sparkling at that time.
But oh, just think if the GULAG OPTION was initiated.
Woo EEE, the cry from the bleeding hearts.
It would be deafening.

A lot of the bleeding hearts (mine included) are interested in a long term solution. Throwing more bodies in jail for possession has not solved the drug or homeless problem in the most highly incarcerated democratic nation in the world (the US).

.7% of the US population, or a staggering 2.1 million people are in prison in the US. At a cost of about $70,000 per year per inmate (in NY State). That’s $147 billion a year - that’s a lot of bags of Doritos. By comparison Canada’s incarceration is .12% of our population, or about six times less. Personally, I would rather spend that money on education than throw more people in prison, which has clearly not helped with the homeless or the drug problem .

 

[masterpoonhunter]

In this case the reference to Gulag as opposed to prison ala the US of A, was more or less tongue in cheek but I get it, some folks don't comprehend some of the humour as well as others. To the point of the topic, which is serious, it seems the options have all been laid out and discussed here and the only outcome is "this is a difficult one to deal with when the mental health issues are at play".

The greater societal problem is that ALL the various agencies who should be looking out for the vast majority of everyone who is affected, are seemingly impotent when it comes to fixing this. Hard choices or not, the do nothing bullshit definitely does not work. As we see as the various warnings etc have been ignored and tomorrow will bring mayhem as evictions start. If they start at all. I mean how long did it take to move the squatters out of the Strathcona Park? And the taxpayers are stuck with all these bills.

Bantering, arguing, discussing etc on a pooner forum will not solve a thing (unless some of you pooners are high up in those various agencies!)

 

[Big_Guy_Rye]

Didn't we 'gulag' the lot of them pre the 2010 Olympics?

Yeah, it's called Kamloops, Kelowna, Penticton, Prince George, and anywhere else in BC they can get a free bus ticket to. Ship them all away to make room for swanky False Creek living.

Heroin and cocaine are still illegal in Canada, so I’m not sure to what you’re referring when you say “the other way hasn’t been working for a very long time.”

Safe injection sites giving out safe supply has been happening for a while now in BC; and it's hardly made a dent in the DTES scene. They claim it's a "harm reduction" measure to keep people from dying, well,...they're still dying, despite the option.

Decriminalization of hard drugs is only now being discussed at attempted in very small pockets in Canada, specifically BC.

It's not only discussed, possessing small amounts of hard drugs have been decriminalized just recently. And again, they're not doing it to curb "stigma" (which is a joke unto itself), it so the cops don't have to work as hard in catching every junkie smoking out of a foil and makes the paper work look good, when it shows drug arrests are lowered so they can sell the results to the public.....like might as well legalize murder, and claim they solved crime altogether, forever.

 

[licks2nite]

Homelessness seems to take many past a tipping point of unemployability. Joblessness currently low in both US and Canada. Dietary deficiency, addictive drug use and irregular habits all together really make a mess of folks. Reopen Riverview Institution.

 

[Mclovinit604]

It’s interesting how many here advocate for Riverview or forced rehab, mandatory work programs, relocation, or dump somewhere else options (while ignoring civil law and limits of healthcare consent) but I wonder how many of you with said point of view become enraged or feel oppressed for wearing a mask or getting a vaccine. Or taking rights from women to choose…

 

[FreeG]

It’s interesting how many here advocate for Riverview or forced rehab, mandatory work programs, relocation, or dump somewhere else options (while ignoring civil law and limits of healthcare consent) but I wonder how many of you with said point of view become enraged or feel oppressed for wearing a mask or getting a vaccine. Or taking rights from women to choose…

View attachment 46160

Beat me to it!

Please...would LOVE to hear someone's explanation on why its OK to force these folks elsewhere but NOT be "forced" to wear a mask/vax.

Back to topic, however - someone mentioned "safe injection sites" have had no appreciable difference, but i thought those were just recently implemented?

 

[ModSquad]

Beat me to it!

Please...would LOVE to hear someone's explanation on why its OK to force these folks elsewhere but NOT be "forced" to wear a mask/vax.

Back to topic, however - someone mentioned "safe injection sites" have had no appreciable difference, but i thought those were just recently implemented?

One clear benefit of the injection sites is they are equipped with Naloxone administered by trained personnel.

 

[Big_Guy_Rye]

And here we go

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557125450509402112