Trudeau how can he win the next election

[dumass]

Again, i'm no big Harper fan, but to argue that we are better off fiscally with Trudeau at the helm is indefensible.

Trudeau said the budget will balance itself. Explain it.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Its explained on this chart provided by the CBC--not exactly a bastion of Conservative support. Yes Harper did inherit a surplus from Chretien but guess what happened in late 2007? The Great Recession hit and enveloped the Canadian economy which had to try and spend itself out of the recession. And then note as the years progressed the annual deficit was gradually reduced until 2015 when they recorded a small surplus again. Harper had to ride out some tough economic times.

Harper increased per capita spending during the recession not out of choice but out of necessity. I'm not certain what Justin's rationale is

https://www.cbc.ca/news/multimedia/canada-s-deficits-and-surpluses-1963-to-2015-1.3042571

Its why you dont overspend in a good economy like Justin is doing right now. What he is doing will cause a disaster if another recession hits anytime soon.

 

[Crookedmember]

The full quote, which you could easily google, but you choose to accept whatever bullshit the cons spew, is:

"the commitment needs to be a commitment to grow the economy and the budget will balance itself"

And of course he is correct as the economy is now growing after 10 years of cpc stagnation and debt/gdp is at historic lows.

The only budget the conservatives ever balanced is the one they inherited from the Liberals. That Harper and Mulroney ran up $500 billion of debt is a simple, irrefutable fact.

 

[cumberland69]

Its explained on this chart provided by the CBC--not exactly a bastion of Conservative support. Yes Harper did inherit a surplus from Chretien but guess what happened in late 2007? The Great Recession hit and enveloped the Canadian economy which had to try and spend itself out of the recession. And then note as the years progressed the deficit was gradually reduced until 2015 when they recorded a small surplus again. Harper had to ride out some tough economic times.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/multimedia/canada-s-deficits-and-surpluses-1963-to-2015-1.3042571

Its why you dont overspend in a good economy like Justin is doing right now. What he is doing will cause a disaster if another recession hits anytime soon.

Harper also had a minority gov't during the recession and had to spend more to appease the NDP/Libs then the Cons would have preferred.

 

[CanineCowboy]

You, Dumass, made some claims which I would like you to back up and I know you can't because they are false.

My source is the Fraser Institute's (not a friend of the left) report on Federal government spending by fiscal year.

Remember I am leftist, so I don't mind government spending, so I have nothing to defend. I just pointed out that all the fiscal conservative Conservatives should look at the facts - the Conservatives are the historical kings of deficits and debt.

 

[dumass]

Explain how Trudeau has increased government spending 400%? A single source will do.

Sorry. I 'technically' mis-spoke and I'll own up to that. I meant to say, Trudeau will add 4 times to the national debt than promised.
"the Trudeau government will have added $75 billion to the national debt compared to their promise at the last election that they would add no more than $20 billion to the national debt."
https://globalnews.ca/news/4684596/trudeau-fiscal-update-deficit/

In any case, i'm not here to talk about Harper or defend him. But he did have to navigate our country out of an economic recession, under a minority government where he was forced to spend more than wanted. Trudeau inherited a good economy with a balanced budget and surplus. He said the budget will balance itself. Explain that please.

 

[Crookedmember]

Actually, Harper blew the Liberal surplus before the recession hit.

He created a structural deficit when he chopped 2 points off the GST.

Those 2 points cost about $30 billion per year and that's the main reason the budget hasn't been balanced since the Chretien years.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Actually, Harper blew the Liberal surplus before the recession hit.

He created a structural deficit when he chopped 2 points off the GST.

Those 2 points cost about $30 billion per year and that's the main reason the budget hasn't been balanced since the Chretien years.

There was a 10 billion dollar surplus in 2007 according to the CBC chart. The recession hit in December that year The budget showed a small surplus in 2015 just before Justin took office. Did you look at the link I provided? Those are official government numbers from Finance Canada.

 

[Crookedmember]

Thing is, Mulroney ran up $330 billion of debt and Harper ran up $160 billion of debt. I wish someone could tell me what's "conservative" about that.

Maybe it's just that these ill-educated, flyover province backwater bumpkins aren't as good with money as they think they are.

 

[Crookedmember]

I think it's safe to say the Conservative record on deficits mirrors the Republican record on deficits.

Reagan ran up huge deficits, Clinton balanced the budget, Bush(2) ran up huge deficits, Obama brought them way down, and now the Republicans are back to running trillion dollar deficits again.

The Conservative record in Canada is just as bad.

I think Conservatives feel deficits are fine as long as they're the product of giving the richest people tax cuts.

 

[Hugh Jass]

I think it's safe to say the Conservative record on deficits mirrors the Republican record on deficits.

Reagan ran up huge deficits, Clinton balanced the budget, Bush(2) ran up huge deficits, Obama brought them way down, and now the Republicans are back to running trillion dollar deficits again.

The Conservative record in Canada is just as bad.

I think Conservatives feel deficits are fine as long as they're the product of giving the richest people tax cuts.

Actually Obama did NOT bring down the deficit. He increased it drastically however he did have to deal with the recession just as Harper had to...only worse.

This link helps explain the US debt by recent presidents..... for Republicans the failure of Reaganomics and several middle eastern wars under the Bushes were a big factor. Under Clinton the budgets were more under control but his only military adventure of note was in the Balkans in a limited role with the UN.


https://www.debtconsolidation.com/us-debt-presidents/

Mulroney was and remains a smug asshole.

Sorry for getting off topic.

 

[Ray]

One thing I'd like to add here, is that our current economic malaise has a lot to do with Trump dismissing our trade agreements and wanting to punish our economy for his 'America First' agenda. Trudeau is being taken along for the ride on this one, and it's beyond his control. And getting caught in the middle with Trumps issues with China.

 

[storm rider]

- His pure arrogance, and holier than thou, virtue-signalling personality
- Being the only PM to violate federal ethics and conflict of interests rules
- His inability to answer simple straight forward questions, and instead using useless generic word-salad answers that don't mean anything, saddled with 'um' or 'uhhhhh' between every other word
- Failing to deliver his promise of a balanced budget, and instead bringing the country into astronomically further debt (new projections is Canada cannot balance budget until 2043)
- Defending and Failing to reprimand his corrupt minister of Finance Morneau, who did NOT put his assets into a blind trust, and made government actions/investments which were a clear conflict of interest and benefitted his personal fortune by MILLIONS
- PEOPLEKIND !!!!!!
- Failing to secure a pipeline, and even worse, overpaying to buy the pipeline project for which the government doesn't have the competence to efficiently oversee, costing the taxpayer even more long-term debt.
- the fact that he is a global elitist, and is trying to secure
- Dontated 10M of your taxpayer money to the ultra-legit 'Clinton Foundation'
- Omar Khadar........ yeah....10M cheque to that convicted terrorist and murderer, without giving any fight or letting it escalate to court.
- India Trip Disaster, where he took his family to take a bunch of selfies in bollywood outfits, failed to secure any nett beneficial trade deals (the only deals we made involved Canadian investment in India and not vice versa)
- He Takes like 10 personal days off a month, if you look at his public calendar
- Hijab Hoax....he tweeted out in support of the girl at the first instant the fake hoax was publicised. But when Marissa Shen's death was caused by one of his prised Syrian refugees, he remained silent and unapologetic.
- Groper-in-Cheif, Claims to be a feminist, but can't even admit he groped a girl at the music festival despite contemporaneous proof.
- Blocking freedom of access requests to information about government spending, and that of his cabinet and Gerald Butts, despite his countless campaigning that he would provide "a new era of openness and transparency"
- Creating a $595 million 'slush fund' with YOUR taxpayer money as grants to 'trusted media' (i.e. media outlets which portray him and Liberals and spread their propaganda so they can win the next election)
- Cutting payments to Veteran Affairs, saying they are asking for more than they can provide, and causing them to sue Canada (while at the same time, he cuts cheques to various feminist and gender neutral organisations outside of Canada)
- Getting toasted on the USMCA deal, in which Canada did not gain any benefit over pre-existing NAFTA, and made a number of concessions, but having the arrogance to call it a "Win Win Win" deal despite only making concessions and not getting anything.
- Climate Barbie, and Chrystia "Gollum" Freeland, those disastrous cabinet appointments were the results of his 'gender neutral' cabinet policy, where cabinet positions were given to vaginas instead of people with actual intelligence, competence and qualifications.

I really could go on for days. But its clear that Trudeau is the biggest and dumbest phony to ever be voted as PM, and has done more damage to than any other PM.

^THIS PLUS

Trudeau is a stammering IDIOT that WONT take questions in Parliament because questions are um...um...uh..uh are..um..uh...tough.Specifically if they are on point and DEMAND answers.

What is Trudeau good at?

He is good at living the life of entitlement as he has done so all of his life.Stephen Harper had a wife and kids but HE did not need 2 nannies for the kids nor did he take them on state paid vacations.

I will just make this a short rant but it is a just one.Trudeau is the most incompetant Prime Minister in the history of this country.He is a complete idiot who has enriched himself along the way whilst making Canada as a country a laughing stock.At the same time he has driven Canada into the ground with his idiotic policies on immigration as well as the energy portfolio.

He is an utter buffoon and is stacking the deck for the next election after he bought off the media...most specifically the CBC.

Come the next hustings he is saying the biggest ugliest issue will be about immigration....as in how Canada has been FLOODED with illegals from the USA.

Hopefully Andrew Sheer does not take the bait and hold Trudeau to task on his ineptitude over the defecit....the BS Carbon Tax(which wont lower emissions) and the like and then Trudeau wont get to coast through on name recognition as well as "style over substance".

Personally.....as a downtrodden tax payer....after 3 years of the BLIGHT of Trudeau running Canada into the ground.....I hope he gets a JFK legacy.

SR

 

[80watts]

Well lets see what does Canada need over the next 20 years.

It needs new:
1. Fighter planes
2. Helicopters
3. Search and Rescue plane
4. More resources for the Coast Guard
5. 2 new bases up north for the NW passage to control sea lanes and reduce the pollution in Arctic waters.
6. New Electrical Grid with digital control. More access to far north electrical generation (Ontario) and across prov borders
7. Final solution for First Nations claims. Indian Act to be annulled and First Nations made Canadian Citizens....
8. A plan for renewable energy to be tied into the digital grid. Includes solar, wind, geothermal and battery storage and nuclear plants
9. A national solution for our material needs centuries from now by taxing natural un-renewable resources at a premium (not to be touched)
10. Maintenance of failing infrastructure in cities.
11. Transportation hubs of high speed electric trains for transportation.
12 New ships for the Navy. a building program to keep heavy industry going.
13. A new Bank ACT. stating the 5 major banks that do business in Canada have to have HQ in Canada and pay Canadian taxes, not HQ in the Caribbean in the tax safe havens.
14. Flat income tax across the board, no exceptions, everyone pays the same rate, no matter the income... starting at 22%. Charity write offs and political contributions no longer refundable......Just for the asswipes out there, political tax write offs are better than charitable ones.....get rid of all write offs....
15. CPP and other gov pensions to accumulate a monetary funds , interest on funds will eventually pay the CPP and other pensions not general revenue.


To pay for it:
1. Raise GST 1.5 to 2.5 %
2. Carbon tax.
3. Premium tax on non-renewable resources at source company. This to be held for future generations not spent on some debt reduction or general revenue. Look at Norwegian Fund (over a trillion dollars made off its oil in the sea since the early 70s).
4. Swear tax. $1.00 fine for swearing in public... for each word. This includes court where you have to repeat your worlds and so get double the fine.... (I might be going to court alot).....
5. An incremental tax on cars/vehicles until public system of transit is in place.
6. Death taxes... 100% of what is left over, your kids get nothing, can't pass the wealth onto the next generation.... most of us will just pass debt on.....just saying....

Everyone here is bitching about the past; how about some constructive comments on how the future can be better and how to pay for it. Isn't that what we should be talking about, instead of getting pissed at each other because of what was out of your control. work together...

Ever been to a Canadian museum... they basicly suck..... so in essence so do Canadians, because their museums suck...... and all the little people can do is argue who did what to whom when..... You are not in elementary school, you are adults. Make Canada better....

Oh and for the non immigration people out there, Canada is run by the descendants of immigrants...it needs the people for infrastruture support..etc... pls see beyond your own petty needs....

 

[licks2nite]

Canadian are obsessed with getting federal government to solve their problems. Get after your local mayor and council to wrest jurisdictions from provincial/territorial and federal governments. Canadians need to get control of their existence and see that happening right in front of themselves at the municipal level.

 

[overdone]

Government spending always trumps debt with the electorate. And remember, it was Harper who added $150 billion to the country's debt, erasing all of Chretien's deficit and debt cutting.

Chretien's record, like it or not, was based upon Mulroney and a little thing called Free Trade, not to mention the crooked accounting Martin was very good at

look at the downloading they did to the Provinces back then, who in turn have done it to the municipal level

pretty easy to balance the books when the economy takes off in our biggest/basically only trading partner

not to mention the GST at 7%

Canada doesn't move the needle economically in the scheme of the world

we go as the Americans go, hence our "supposed" good economy now

Actually, Harper blew the Liberal surplus before the recession hit.

He created a structural deficit when he chopped 2 points off the GST.

Those 2 points cost about $30 billion per year and that's the main reason the budget hasn't been balanced since the Chretien years.

yeah, the billions in Old Age Welfare has nothing to do with it, OAS

not to mention the Child Welfare

add them up, you're looking at about 60 billion

not to mention all the corporate welfare

Thing is, Mulroney ran up $330 billion of debt and Harper ran up $160 billion of debt. I wish someone could tell me what's "conservative" about that.

Maybe it's just that these ill-educated, flyover province backwater bumpkins aren't as good with money as they think they are.

Mulroney, like it or not was hamstrung by 14 yrs of incompetence by another Trudeau, all but one in deficit, and the one that wasn't was barely balanced

he's just like Dad, spend for the sake of spending

the debt spiral started with Pierre, his kid, if allowed will put the final nail into it if we don't punt him

https://business.financialpost.com/...er-person-spending-outside-a-war-or-recession

Mulroney wasn't anywhere near as bad as you think, considering the times

one thing is for sure the current POS is the worse, hands down

 

[storm rider]

Well lets see what does Canada need over the next 20 years.

It needs new:
1. Fighter planes
2. Helicopters
3. Search and Rescue plane
4. More resources for the Coast Guard
5. 2 new bases up north for the NW passage to control sea lanes and reduce the pollution in Arctic waters.
6. New Electrical Grid with digital control. More access to far north electrical generation (Ontario) and across prov borders
7. Final solution for First Nations claims. Indian Act to be annulled and First Nations made Canadian Citizens....
8. A plan for renewable energy to be tied into the digital grid. Includes solar, wind, geothermal and battery storage and nuclear plants
9. A national solution for our material needs centuries from now by taxing natural un-renewable resources at a premium (not to be touched)
10. Maintenance of failing infrastructure in cities.
11. Transportation hubs of high speed electric trains for transportation.
12 New ships for the Navy. a building program to keep heavy industry going.
13. A new Bank ACT. stating the 5 major banks that do business in Canada have to have HQ in Canada and pay Canadian taxes, not HQ in the Caribbean in the tax safe havens.
14. Flat income tax across the board, no exceptions, everyone pays the same rate, no matter the income... starting at 22%. Charity write offs and political contributions no longer refundable......Just for the asswipes out there, political tax write offs are better than charitable ones.....get rid of all write offs....
15. CPP and other gov pensions to accumulate a monetary funds , interest on funds will eventually pay the CPP and other pensions not general revenue.


To pay for it:
1. Raise GST 1.5 to 2.5 %
2. Carbon tax.
3. Premium tax on non-renewable resources at source company. This to be held for future generations not spent on some debt reduction or general revenue. Look at Norwegian Fund (over a trillion dollars made off its oil in the sea since the early 70s).
4. Swear tax. $1.00 fine for swearing in public... for each word. This includes court where you have to repeat your worlds and so get double the fine.... (I might be going to court alot).....
5. An incremental tax on cars/vehicles until public system of transit is in place.
6. Death taxes... 100% of what is left over, your kids get nothing, can't pass the wealth onto the next generation.... most of us will just pass debt on.....just saying....

Everyone here is bitching about the past; how about some constructive comments on how the future can be better and how to pay for it. Isn't that what we should be talking about, instead of getting pissed at each other because of what was out of your control. work together...

Ever been to a Canadian museum... they basicly suck..... so in essence so do Canadians, because their museums suck...... and all the little people can do is argue who did what to whom when..... You are not in elementary school, you are adults. Make Canada better....

Oh and for the non immigration people out there, Canada is run by the descendants of immigrants...it needs the people for infrastruture support..etc... pls see beyond your own petty needs....

Wow....just WOW.....I can only think every time Bernie Sanders utters the words "DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM" in his aged crotchety voice you get a fucking hard on.

SR

 

[westwoody]

1. Fighter planes
2. Helicopters
3. Search and Rescue plane
4. More resources for the Coast Guard
5. 2 new bases up north for the NW passage to control sea lanes and reduce the pollution in Arctic waters.
12 New ships for the Navy. a building program to keep heavy industry going.

Canada needs all of these badly, and all are issues that are decades old.

Canada has lost the ability to control our own border territory.
Foreign ships have sailed through the Northwest Passage without permission, and there is nothing Canada can do about it. Where there used to be pack ice there is now open seawater.
China has stated that the Northwest Passage is "International Waters". Which is funny since they are bitching about anyone cooming near their self proclaimed offshore territories...
You want to stop drug trafficking and illegal immigration? Impossible when there's thousands of km ofcoastline and two or three barely working navy ships to patrol.
Rescue helicopters, they've been political football since the 1980s. Every government has fucked up the contracts. Liberal and Conservatives both try to get juicy bits of local sourcing for their loyal ridings and best donors. They could have bought Seahawks twenty years ago and had them in service almost immediately. Instead they fucked up the process so bad they had to buy their way out of the contract and pay millions for the right to buy nothing.
Fighters, the old F18s will be falling out of the sky soon. Airframes only last so long. Replacements are another political goldmine/minefield. So many fat contracts to divvy up.
A lot of basic military equipment is shit because supply contracts are given to the wrong people for the wrong reasons. Yes body armour and helmets that degraded in sunlight. Worn out crap APCs with useless panels bolted on for "armour upgrades", until the bolts rusted and the panels fell off. (someone made a shitload of money there) And Mulroney bought crap too.
The new Leopards are bitchin' though. They were bought pretty much off the shelf, as is, and entered service right away. (apart from the leases)

Politicians don't see these issues as problems that need resolution.
They see tools for job creation, rewards for campaign contribution, vote buying, political gains.
So these problems that have been dogging Canada simply do not get resolved.

 

[storm rider]

Canada needs all of these badly, and all are issues that are decades old.

Canada has lost the ability to control our own border territory.
Foreign ships have sailed through the Northwest Passage without permission, and there is nothing Canada can do about it. Where there used to be pack ice there is now open seawater.
China has stated that the Northwest Passage is "International Waters". Which is funny since they are bitching about anyone cooming near their self proclaimed offshore territories...
You want to stop drug trafficking and illegal immigration? Impossible when there's thousands of km ofcoastline and two or three barely working navy ships to patrol.
Rescue helicopters, they've been political football since the 1980s. Every government has fucked up the contracts. Liberal and Conservatives both try to get juicy bits of local sourcing for their loyal ridings and best donors. They could have bought Seahawks twenty years ago and had them in service almost immediately. Instead they fucked up the process so bad they had to buy their way out of the contract and pay millions for the right to buy nothing.
Fighters, the old F18s will be falling out of the sky soon. Airframes only last so long. Replacements are another political goldmine/minefield. So many fat contracts to divvy up.
A lot of basic military equipment is shit because supply contracts are given to the wrong people for the wrong reasons. Yes body armour and helmets that degraded in sunlight. Worn out crap APCs with useless panels bolted on for "armour upgrades", until the bolts rusted and the panels fell off. (someone made a shitload of money there) And Mulroney bought crap too.
The new Leopards are bitchin' though. They were bought pretty much off the shelf, as is, and entered service right away. (apart from the leases)

Politicians don't see these issues as problems that need resolution.
They see tools for job creation, rewards for campaign contribution, vote buying, political gains.
So these problems that have been dogging Canada simply do not get resolved.

Had Canada produced the Avro Arrow back in the day.....Canada would now be the leading country and exporting state of the art jet fighters........just sayin.

SR

 

[80watts]

Another example where the big American economy trumped the smaller Canadian economy. American manufacturers did not like the ideal of having to compete with Avro. Hence the military/political pressure to cancel the project. Most of the Avro designers went to the states and worked for the big aeronautics companies or NASA.

Canada needs alot of assets, but because of political back stabbing among the liberals and conservatives (under election promises/scandals/etc), this hasn't happened. They are fighting over scraps of a country that was relatively better managed up to the late 60s. Things change. Attitudes change.

Look at the back and forth of this thread. People are at each other for something that has happened in the past.

The best working of government that I have seen was Harper's Minority government , he had to give some things the liberals and ndp wanted to get a budget passed. Harper had to work with the liberal/ndp because if he called an election he would of lost (too soon to go back to the polls). When Harper got his majority and he started to change things... which is why we ended up with a liberal majority last election...

Both sides have to work together, we are all Canadians, the words, together - should mean something for everyone here.

Officially Canada's stand on land up to the North Pole is ours and so is the waters..... I have been to a couple of lectures, where I have serious doubts on the people advising senior Canadian officials --on how to handle the North West Passage and lands up in Northern Canada.

Its based on that fact that it is cold and dark up there for over 6 months a year. Who wants to go up there where its cold and dark???... Well maybe there are resources that Canada will need one day.

Also there is the US naval presence up there, with submarines, ships etc. Most of the time they let the Canadians know, sometimes not.... if we don't have sovereignty patrols, we will lose the NW passage. Not to mention other countries ships pumping bilges into the clean Arctic waters .... Hence the need for Canadian presence up north and ships that can go there year round. (For sovereignty you have to squat on the land and make sure no one kicks you off it)

We live under the might of the US Navy and Nuclear Arsenal. One dickhead from one think tank in Toronto even suggested that we Canadians do nothing, let the US do it for us. That works just as well when China looks at Siberia as its northern supply source (Russia don't like that ).

As for the AVRO, it has been suggested to revamp that project, instead of getting the F35. that still a major investment. Look at the states alot of their innovations has been from their military industrial complex, funded by money from the US government through agencies like DARPA. Same with Nuclear research, and here in Canada what do we do, "oh the Candu reactor is good"... and we try and sell it to other countries. There are better and safer reactors they could use.

And then we tie shit up in red tape, for power grids, water rights, oil pipelines, environmental studies that take decades, just slowing the process down.

Work together for a better Canada. That includes the poor, the working poor, the declining middle class, and the better off people, and the politicians.

On a ligther note: Game of Thrones is back in April 2019.....