Carman Fox
Jerkmate

The mean streets

Cock Throppled

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2003
4,271
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Upstairs
I was at loose ends recently and decided to grab a late night drink from one of the ubiquitous American coffee outlets. I headed for the emporium at Robson and Thurlow. I usually park in the alley behind the store where a group of street people often hangs out in the evenings. I've never felt particularly threatened by them, and in fact even developed a casual banter with an older man last summer. Every time I'd see him I'd ask how he was doing. I'd often pass on a cup of joe or a muffin. He was a nice guy who told me about the many unfortunate things that had befallen him over the years. His particular thing was collecting eclectic dumpster detritus that he resold for pocket money. He had everything sorted in his buggy. Pride of place was a stuffed toy tied to the front. So here I was heading back to my car, mocha firmly in hand when I encounter the old guy. I ask how his bad leg ws doing and we chat for a while. He heads off towards Thurlow and I go to my car. Suddenly I hear loud shouting and a young guy doing his best Screaming Lord Sutch runs across the street. You know the type - late twenties, loud and aggressive, screaming for no apparent reason and flying high on crystal or crack. More shouting erupts when he grabs the stuffed toy off old guy's buggy and tries to take it. Old guy fights back and tells him to f...off. They get into a tug-of-war. I shrugged and opened the car door to leave. Then I thought , " What kind of a person am I to let that old man be bullied over one of the few things he treasures?" I hollered at Lord Sutch to "f...off " , "leave him alone" and a few other cliches that seemed appropriate, but he ignored me. Now I had to step it up a notch, but reality started to sink in. What if he had a knife? (quite likely). If he's on meth he's fearless (unlike me), probably would feel no pain and unpredictable. What if others joined in? There were about fifteen people in the alley at that time. I put the coffee in the car ( I thought about throwing it at him, but Starbucks never makes their coffee hot enough to effectively do any damage). They have now spilled into the middle of Thurlow as I go to the trunk for reinforcements. I figure if he needs convincing a Louisville Slugger should do the trick. I start walking towards them when the old guy lands a roundhouse right that takes the steam out of screaming young dude. Old guy snatches back the toy, re-attaches it to the buggy and pushes on like nothing happened. Young dude heads towards me into the alley. I brace myself, but he walks past like I'm not there. Neither of them even noticed I was trying to intervene. (This is more like the treatment I get from women). Nobody in the alley moved a muscle and, even more disturbing, nobody on Thurlow tried to save the old guy from what I thought was going to be a beating. I guess the old guy hasn't survived this long without being tough. My adrenaline was pumping and I was shaking over the whole incident even though I didn't really even get involved. I went back to my coffee and drove home.
I didn't really accomplish anything, but I did feel a lot better that I had tried to help. Many years ago I witnessed a severe beating that was sickening in its savagery and I've always regretted that I didn't do something then. As scary as these things are I think, like Ophelia we have to get involved.
Any other stories out there in the naked City?
 

Hit Man

Armed Member
Nov 18, 2003
222
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Chillin' on the beach
You shoulda clocked the bastard just on general principle. Good on ya for making an effort. Also, for taking the time to help someone less fortunate.
 

spaceghost

Haunting Whispers
Oct 19, 2002
1,190
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Vancouver
Vancouver Barrista guy in starbucks intervenes in argument between couple.

Male from couple pulls knife (I believe) and kills Barrista guy.

Year and a half later few remember him and fewer still give a sh*t he got involved.

Moral of the story... be very, very careful.
 

Kev

New member
May 14, 2002
1,618
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spaceghost said:
Vancouver Barrista guy in starbucks intervenes in argument between couple.

Male from couple pulls knife (I believe) and kills Barrista guy.

Year and a half later few remember him and fewer still give a sh*t he got involved.

Moral of the story... be very, very careful.
I agree space...

If another persons life is a stake i would like to think i would help, but for personal possessions its not worth it. After all were talking about a toy here with no monetary value.

I believe in karma what goes around comes around, the young shit will get his. --- Kev
 

Kev

New member
May 14, 2002
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Colonel Dave said:
Sorry, Kev, but I have to disagree... Sentimental value is what makes things proceless. I have a 10 karat gold ring with a tiny diamond set in it thatI received from my mother just over a year before she passed away that you couldn't buy from me for any amount. Just 'cause it's a stuffed toy to you, doesn't mean it's not priceless to him.

Good on ya, CT!

But, as SG said, "be very, very careful."
A stuffed toy is not worth dieing for and neither is moms 10 karat diamond ring, it doesn't matter its sentimental value. Freaks like that can kill you, and it happens far to often. Anyway way we have the right to handle this in our own way. --- Kev
 

Kev

New member
May 14, 2002
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Colonel Dave said:
To quote Peter Griffon: "I may not agree with what you say, sir, but I will defend to the death your right to say it!"
AMEN!!
 

hitrack

I'LL KILL YA ALL!!
Feb 25, 2003
3,890
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Surrey
CT take your 6$ mocha and get in your BMW and get the "F" outta there. No use trying to be a hero because you might be a dead hero.

Rings and stuffed toys don't mean sweet piss all if you aint around to enjoy them.

I will help someone injured, I will not break up a fight between two able bodied men.
 

jmac23

New member
Oct 8, 2003
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Well good on you CT. I have to agree with you and The Colonel. If we all had that attitude then the world would be a much better place. Hitrack things are not worth dying for but ethics and principals are. If we had the watch and walk away attitude, until it affects me in the 40’s then we all would be speaking German.
 

hitrack

I'LL KILL YA ALL!!
Feb 25, 2003
3,890
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Surrey
I hear ya man, I just don't wanna end up in the hospital with god knows what injury or life long disability because I was trying to break up some street fight between two homeless people.
 

jmac23

New member
Oct 8, 2003
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No Problem HT, what I was saying is very personal, and each of us has his/her ethics. For you the ethical choice would be to walk away. This is problem the correct choice. But foe ME and that is all I can speak for. I would have gotten the bat, and laid into the bastard.
 

Oberon

Finished
Nov 28, 2003
84
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Lower Mainland
Tough call ... HFS things might have gone bad for you, always good call 911 FIRST... but yeah you can't just stand by. If it 2 adults I usually call the cops and let them sort it out, other stuff it would be a spur of the moment decision.... which I'll admit is not always a good idea...

Oberon
 

CJ Tylers

Retired Sr. Member
Jan 4, 2003
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North Vancouver
One of the guys I work with related a story this morning. A couple of days back (maybe even last night!? Can't remember) he was visited by the cops who asked him where he was at some point in the night (5am maybe).

He was, of course, sleeping.

Why did they ask him? Because in the alley just beside his appartment a hooker was taken and raped as well as robbed. He knew nothing...

But it makes me wonder, did anyone hear her? If they did...would they have helped her?
 

Ophelia Black

touch my kimchee
Mar 3, 2004
231
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Cock Throppled

You did the right thing. I know the old dude you're referring to. He's a good guy who recycles a lot of stuff in my neighbourhood. My place looks out on part of his trapline, and I see him almost every day.

The man was being bullied, and you felt it was unfair and that it was right for you to get involved when a person you knew was being pushed around by a stranger half his age.

Everyone makes their own decisions about these things. I was once held against my will in an apartment, and had the crap kicked out of me for an hour and a half. As I was being strangled while my head was also being slammed into the floor, I knew that all the neighbours in the surrounding apartments could hear me being attacked. I was, after all, bouncing off their walls.

Not a single fucking one of them did a damn thing. Not even knock on the door to distract the guy long enough for me to make a dash for the patio door.

If I die helping someone out of a shitty situation, so be it. Life is short anyway. May as well make it honourable.
 

Kev

New member
May 14, 2002
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likesdeladies your such a wimp. You should have drawn that Glock you carry and wasted those mother fuckers................NOT. --- Kev
 

Ophelia Black

touch my kimchee
Mar 3, 2004
231
0
0
Yep...she took a bullet and died, trying to save a man she had never met who was on the ground being kicked to death by a mob...and her parents said that was the way she'd want to go.

These are the choices we make - and we never know which way we'll go until it's staring us in the face.

Who knows why she made that choice?

It may of been that she was the kind of person who would no longer want to live if she had watched a fellow human being get his brains kicked out of his head while she stood by and did nothing.

There is value in jumping in, and value in saving your own ass. It simply depends on which reaction has the most meaning to you at the time.
 

Oberon

Finished
Nov 28, 2003
84
0
0
58
Lower Mainland
hifisex said:
LDL.....ok......so you've established your a weak assed pussy who runs for cover at the first chance possible:eek:

CT and OB.....you are willing to stand up for the "little guy" and I respect that while some might not :D

Everyone else......that is your choice and your choice alone!!! :)

My point about posting here is that we all have different thresholds when it comes to personal risk. What is acceptable for some is not for others.....so be it!!!

As a side note to LDL, or anyone else who cares, I grew up around both hand guns and long guns and as such have a VERY healthy respect for what they are capable of (both good and bad). I take offence to the notion that all American's are nothing but a bunch of red-neck trigger happy assholes who would just as soon shoot you as look at you. I know the DFW, Plano, Richardson area VERY well, and yes there are a lot of firearms there.....but also the majority of the owners of these guns are responsible!!!!!

HFS


p.s. to squirrel....bang on buddy.....I'm all about karma and "pay it forward" is JUST that!
Good comments...

On thing is missing from this whole discussion, ok maybe you don't want to or can't get physically involved, that fine but DON'T just ignore, call 911 do something! it is the apathy that pisses me off..

Everybody does not have to be Rambo, you just have to care a bit...

Oberon
 

Cock Throppled

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2003
4,271
132
63
Upstairs
Okay, since I started it let me get a few things straight. I am as big a wimp as anybody when trouble starts, but I have had my fair share (just ask anyone who's seen my face), but I started to get involved because I thought the young guy was going to start kicking the crap out of the old guy - not because of some stuffed toy the old guy was trying to retrieve. I don't believe in dying for a possession - valuable or sentimental, but I sure understand the shopkeeper getting killed trying to protect his fifty bucks from some punk trying to steal it.
As far as payinmg $6.00 for a mocha and hoppping into my BMW - sorry on both counts. It was a $3.21 mocha ( I saved .11 on the personal cup and helped the environment) and I drive a beat-up Dodge.
There is way too much violence in the world (I'm an old hippie - "make love not war" works for me), and I'd really have to be pushed to get involved, but I agree with most others - you have to do something, even if it's calling the police. I was slashed at with a knife (it missed) when a pimp was hassling a friend and I grabbed the guy to pull him away. It was frightening at the time, but gave over to rage half an hour later. Then the fantasies began about what I'd do next time and how I'd clock the guy, etc. Unfortunately reality isn't fantasy and when the situation arises we never really know what we'd actually do in any given situation.
 

spaceghost

Haunting Whispers
Oct 19, 2002
1,190
0
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113
Vancouver
Cock Throppled said:
It was frightening at the time, but gave over to rage half an hour later. Then the fantasies began about what I'd do next time and how I'd clock the guy, etc. Unfortunately reality isn't fantasy and when the situation arises we never really know what we'd actually do in any given situation.
It's hard... everyone instinctively wants to help.

I saw an excerpt from an interesting analysis on knife attacks in a video designed for law enforcement training. CNN played the excerpt.

If someone has a knife and he came at you with it... IF you wanted to stop his with a GUN, you have to START shooting him when he is at LEAST 7 feet away from you.

Forward momentum and intent will keep him coming at you in any range closer than 7 feet. (Police are apparently trained to shoot an MOVE in a situation like this... in tests only 45% actually remember to move in the heat of the moment).

You have to be very, very careful.

When that guy came down the lane, CT, and he walked past you... you were in a supreme zone of danger.

IF he had a knife, and you let him within 7 ft of you, and he decided to strike out in a psychotic fit of rage... Nothing you could have done would have prevented SERIOUS injury or even death. Each of us may THINK we are fast enough... we aren't... unless you possess Neo-like abilities.

The instinct to help is strong. Don't let it stunt your instinct to analyze - and recognize - the zone of danger and prepare for what to do when in it.
 
H

Hardatwork

First of all I’d like to say I’m impressed with CT for not turning his back on someone who needed help. The point is you were WILLING to jump in and render assistance and I think that makes all the difference in the world. To echo the others though, be careful.

The really scary thing is consider what would have happened had the struggle gone on for a few seconds more and you had jumped in with the bat. Many, many scenarios, all bad that I can think of. Suddenly this scenario which ended relatively peacefully on it’s own, could have escalated tenfold with CT dead, hospitalized or in jail. No preaching on my part and every scenario calls for different actions, but sometimes the best thing to do is not get involved in the action. Calling 911 is a good start.
 
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