So you still think AIDS came from monkeys in Africa?

georgebushmoron

jus call me MR. President
Mar 25, 2003
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Apparently it's been around since 1969, and was found in the United States back then. Here's the link: http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=aaaeb892-1643-4496-b116-1f1364e8bef3&k=97181

Here's the article in case the link above doesn't work:

<div STYLE="color: blue ; background:yellow; border-style:solid">
<u><b>B.C.-born doctor isolated HIV in 1969</b></u>

More than a decade before North American men started dying en masse of a mysterious virus then referred to as the "gay cancer", a Vancouver-born scientist had unknowingly isolated the AIDS virus in a deathly ill teenager in St. Louis, Missouri.

Dr. Memory Elvin-Lewis, a University of B.C. graduate, was a young researcher specializing in chlamydia at Washington University in 1968 when she was introduced to patient "Robert R," a 15-year-old African-American youth who came to hospital suffering from an assortment of illnesses. The teen was extremely tired and rapidly losing weight. His lymph nodes, legs and scrotum were badly swollen, and, within months, he began to develop a type of skin cancer -- now known as Kaposi's sarcoma -- which appeared as lesions all over his body.

Elvin-Lewis also positively tested the youth with a severe chlamydia infection. He died in 1969 after contracting bronchial pneumonia.

At the time, the youth's medical team were completely baffled by his symptoms which stubbornly proved resistant to treatment, Elvin-Lewis said in a telephone interview Friday from her Missouri home.

"All of us who worked on this young man knew that there was something really, very wrong," she said.

The young scientist knew enough, however, to carefully take and store tissue samples from the patient in her university freezer.

In 1970, she presented a paper on Robert R.'s symptoms at a chlamydia conference, suggesting the boy had suffered from some sort of underlying viral infection that caused him to have a suppressed immune system. The paper was not well-received.

"It was so against the dogma of the day," she said. "As far as they [more senior researchers in the field] were concerned, I was a heretic."

It took until 1987 for Elvin-Lewis to be vindicated in the scientific community. New research techniques developed in the years after the human immunodeficiency virus that causes AIDS was identified showed Robert R.'s tissue samples to be HIV-positive.

The case blew the lid off previous theories that AIDS had arrived in North America, likely from Africa, in the 1970s. In fact, Elvin-Lewis said, "it may be that cases of AIDS have come and gone in the United States several decades earlier."
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This is what happens when you "fuck" with nature, so to speak.
 

gravitas

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Feb 7, 2006
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A couple of comments on the article....

georgebushmoron said:
Apparently it's been around since 1969, and was found in the United States back then.
I don't doubt that there were HIV cases in the US (or Canada, Europe, etc.) before it was first recognized by the CDC and WHO in 1981.

B.C.-born doctor isolated HIV in 1969

More than a decade before North American men started dying en masse of a mysterious virus then referred to as the "gay cancer", a Vancouver-born scientist had unknowingly isolated the AIDS virus in a deathly ill teenager in St. Louis, Missouri.
I take issue with the wording the author/journalist uses here. The BC born doctor didn't isolate the virus, she merely drew a hypothesis (which turned out to be correct) that her patient had an underlying viral infection responsible for his compromised immune system and associated infections and cancer. For her to have "isolated" the virus she would have first had to identify the actual virus (which would have been nearly impossible given the capabilities in the 60's) and then show a direct causal relationship of that virus to the patient's illnesses.


"It was so against the dogma of the day," she said. "As far as they [more senior researchers in the field] were concerned, I was a heretic."
Interesting that her opinions challenged the current popular belief of the senior experts in the field and then 20 years later were proven to be correct thereby showing that the then experts were full of shit. Not unlike the current bandwagon opinion re. global warming and how that theory will prove to be bunk in 20 or so years.


The case blew the lid off previous theories that AIDS had arrived in North America, likely from Africa, in the 1970s. In fact, Elvin-Lewis said, "it may be that cases of AIDS have come and gone in the United States several decades earlier."
I fail to see how the determination that her patient had HIV long before the outbreaks in the early 80's does anything to challenge the theory that the virus didn't originate in Africa. HIV is retrovirus and is genetically similar to viruses found in African primates so IMO the theory of it's African roots still has merit.


This is what happens when you "fuck" with nature, so to speak.
I'm struggling to understand your comment.....care to enlighten me with WTF you meant?


p.s. kewl formating of the yellow text box
 

rollerboy

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Dec 5, 2004
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gravitas said:
I fail to see how the determination that her patient had HIV long before the outbreaks in the early 80's does anything to challenge the theory that the virus didn't originate in Africa. HIV is retrovirus and is genetically similar to viruses found in African primates so IMO the theory of it's African roots still has merit.



I'm struggling to understand your comment.....care to enlighten me with WTF you meant?
Just a hunch, I think GBM alludes to the conspiracy theories that HIV was genetically engineered.
 

kehoe

I shoulda been a farmer
Apr 16, 2003
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I remember seeing one of the late night talk shows, probably Johnny Carson and he asked Frank Zappa (maybe it was the Letterman show) what he thought of the AIDS virus and its origins. He was pretty succinct in his assessement: "Somebody is doing the monkeys". Probably not entirely accurate but he might not have been far off.
 

LonelyGhost

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Apr 26, 2004
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i was under the impression that 'science' had in fact recently 'found' the originating 'tribe of monkeys' that spawned the AIDs epidemic in Africa!

they are some sub-group of chimps that the scientists traced the genetic material of the AIDs virus back to as the original source for the virus.

whether the 'virus' was natural or man-made is still open to speculation.

and there was another 'historic' case of some sailor whose blood sample stored from 1956 (!) showed signs of the AIDs virus!

Don't forget that during WWll, there was a lot of 'germ warfare' research going on, particularly among the Japanese ... who knows what escaped and where it ended up!
 

rollerboy

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Dec 5, 2004
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LonelyGhost said:
whether the 'virus' was natural or man-made is still open to speculation.

and there was another 'historic' case of some sailor whose blood sample stored from 1956 (!) showed signs of the AIDs virus!

Don't forget that during WWll, there was a lot of 'germ warfare' research going on, particularly among the Japanese ... who knows what escaped and where it ended up!
Speculation by monkeys, perhaps.

Monkey geneticists, working in secret Japanese labs, developed HIV during WWII. That this occurred decades before the discovery of retroviruses, during a time when human scientists believed hereditary information resided in proteins and knew almost nothing of the role and structure of DNA and RNA, shows the diabolical cleverness of Japanese monkeys.

The monkey gap, thankfully, was closed by the end of the war.
 
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therealrex

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May 19, 2004
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I still like the oral Polio vaccine theory. Monkey kidneys were used to culture polio vaccines given orally to Africans in the 50's in most of the areas where Aids was first found.
 

westwoody

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Jun 10, 2004
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There is also a feline version, shots for FIV are available. I support the theory that it came from eating "bushmeat", a euphemism for other primates.
HIV may be bad but take a look at Ebola or Marburg, far more contagious and a very gruesome death. There's a lot of ugly stuff in the jungle.
 

JustAGuy

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Jul 3, 2004
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gravitas said:
Interesting that her opinions challenged the current popular belief of the senior experts in the field and then 20 years later were proven to be correct thereby showing that the then experts were full of shit. Not unlike the current bandwagon opinion re. global warming and how that theory will prove to be bunk in 20 or so years.
Yep, in 20 or so years you'll really be able to tell us "I told you so" from your lovely oceanfront home in Chilliwack. :)
 

Big Trapper

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May 13, 2002
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therealrex said:
I still like the oral Polio vaccine theory. Monkey kidneys were used to culture polio vaccines given orally to Africans in the 50's in most of the areas where Aids was first found.
Oh... I DO like that one!
 

tao

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Jul 3, 2005
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rollerboy said:
Speculation by monkeys, perhaps.

Monkey geneticists, working in secret Japanese labs, developed HIV during WWII. That this occurred decades before the discovery of retroviruses, during a time when human scientists believed hereditary information resided in proteins and knew almost nothing of the role and structure of DNA and RNA, shows the diabolically cleverness of Japanese monkeys.

The monkey gap, thankfully, was closed by the end of the war.
hahahahaha

bravo ... well done!!!!
 

dirtydan

Banned
Oct 7, 2004
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As early as the

AIDS/HIV is believed to have been first encountered sometime in the 1950's in Africa. With the doctors really not knowing what the diease was. The first cases in North America are believed to have occurred in the early 1980's. It seems to me on the news recently that in the last 25 years AIDS/HIV has claimed the lives of over 30 million people. :eek:
 

The Lizard King

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Jul 8, 2003
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[QUOTEAIDS/HIV is believed to have been first encountered sometime in the 1950's in Africa. With the doctors really not knowing what the diease was.[/QUOTE]
Probably even long before that. Hey, anybody know if Lou Gehrig's disease existed before Lou Gehrig or did he invent it?!?! Arguing about the origins and timelines of diseases, life on the planet etc can and will go on forever. Have fun.
 

chilli

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Jul 25, 2005
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"Not unlike the current bandwagon opinion re. global warming and how that theory will prove to be bunk in 20 or so years."

You don't know that.

You are just as much in the dark as anyone else.
 

Avery

Gentleman Horndog
Jul 7, 2003
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luckydog71 said:
I read somewhere (it was a long time ago and I do not remeber where) that the first documented AIDS case was an Air Canada flight attendent.
His name was Gaétan Dugas, but, while he undoubtedly spread AIDS to many others, the idea that he was "Patient Zero" has been debunked.

http://www.rotten.com/library/medicine/epidemics/aids/

http://www.avert.org/origins.htm

From the second article:

"Much was made in the early years of the epidemic of a so-called 'Patient Zero' who was the basis of a complex "transmission scenario" compiled by Dr. William Darrow and colleagues at the Centre for Disease Control in the US. This epidemiological study showed how 'Patient O' (mistakenly identified in the press as 'Patient Zero') had given HIV to multiple partners, who then in turn transmitted it to others and rapidly spread the virus to locations all over the world. A journalist, Randy Shilts, subsequently wrote an article based on Darrow's findings, which named Patient Zero as a gay Canadian flight attendant called Gaétan Dugas. For several years, Dugas was vilified as a 'mass spreader' of HIV and the original source of the HIV epidemic among gay men. However, four years after the publication of Shilts' article, Dr. Darrow repudiated his study, admitting its methods were flawed and that Shilts' had misrepresented its conclusions.

While Gaétan Dugas was a real person who did eventually die of AIDS, the Patient Zero story was not much more than myth and scaremongering. HIV in the US was to a large degree initially spread by gay men, but this occurred on a huge scale over many years, probably a long time before Dugas even began to travel."


However, Gaétan was a VERY busy boy before he died! :eek:
 

westwoody

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Jun 10, 2004
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luckydog71 said:
I read somewhere (it was a long time ago and I do not remeber where) that the first documented AIDS case was an Air Canada flight attendent.
This is an urban legend with a bit of truth...He was the original case in a particular investigation but definitely not the first person to have the disease. The virus has been identified in tissue samples from the 50's, and it may have been around much longer, but never identified.
 
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