Marc Emery could be screwed
- Thread starter FuZzYknUckLeS
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That may be true for an accused who is arrested in the U.S. and held in U.S. custody from the time of their arrest. However, it is not nearly that clear-cut in an extradition case... and I think a lot of us including myself are having trouble remembering that this is an extradition case, given the out of control nature of the DEA. Mr. Emery, Greg Williams and Michelle Rainey-Fenkarek were arrested in Canada - and their return to the United States is not guaranteed by any means, although, as I have posted earlier in this thread, the Canadian extradition law is designed to facillitate extradition, not block it. But there are expecptions to everything.nutbag said:
It is not uncommon for "requested persons", as the Extradition Act calls them, to enter into an agreement with U.S. authorities to plead guilty to an offence (not necessarily the offence for which their extradition is sought) under the terms of a plea agreement. While the U.S. federal sentencing guidelines are strict, there is some ability to move downward if the prosecutor is recommending this. I can quote you the cases on this if you like, but trust me, it happens. The U.S. Supreme Court just ruled on this in January.
Emery has many options. If he wants to fight it and drag it out as long as possible, like Mr. Rakesh Saxena who the government of Thailand is attempting to extradite from Canada, then this could go on for years and years. Saxena has been fighting since 1996 or 97 I believe. You need tons of money to do that, which he has. I don't know if Emery has that kind of money. It's starting to look like he is no where near as wealthy as he was made out to be by the U.S. and Canadian authorities.
He could possibly win the extradition hearing in B.C. Supreme Court on the basis that the evidence presented by the U.S was insufficient. This doesn't happen that much though, and even if you win there you have to contend with appeals and even if you win those you can never travel outside of Canada because the U.S. will just have you arrested again and try again under a different country's law.
What a lot of people end up doing is pleading guilty, which gives the U.S. the benefit of not having to wait, not having to have an extradition hearing and appeals in Canada, not having to wait for the Minister to make a decision on whether or not to return the person, and not having the uncertainty that the person may not in fact be returned to them. In return for this the U.S. will generally give some very favourable concessions on sentencing, in the form of recommendations to the court for a particular (lenient) sentence. This isn't going to happen with a murder charge (as in the case of the recent Graham v. United States of America extradition case, but seed selling... I think there is a good chance for a reasoanable deal on a plea agreement). And yes this takes into account the guidelines tables. So, the three "requested persons" maybe not have to rat each other out just yet.
Ghostie,i agree with you on several point's,however the US.Federal Attoney's office have always had the ability to go under the guidelines,but only do so when they have recieved "substantial assitance" in return.
Tha case of Rakesh Saxena is differant since Canada and Thailand's extradition treaty is very differant in the scope and range covered.
Just a few years ago the US.requseted and recieved a more comprehensive extradition treaty with Canada which i believe will lead to Emery and his co-defendant's being extraditated to the US.
I really dont think that any amount money would be enough to avoid extradition to the US.because of the high profile of this case.
As far a pre-extradition deal for Emery,i dont believe they will offer him one,why? he has admitted in public to shipping seed's to the US. admitted to making at least 4 million dollars.and you can bet the US. has already collected many of his US.customer's deposition's supporting there conspirsy theory.
I believe in the end,he will be extradited along with his fellow co-conspritor's,then once in a Federal detention center some one will take a 501 K.......they always do.
Tha case of Rakesh Saxena is differant since Canada and Thailand's extradition treaty is very differant in the scope and range covered.
Just a few years ago the US.requseted and recieved a more comprehensive extradition treaty with Canada which i believe will lead to Emery and his co-defendant's being extraditated to the US.
I really dont think that any amount money would be enough to avoid extradition to the US.because of the high profile of this case.
As far a pre-extradition deal for Emery,i dont believe they will offer him one,why? he has admitted in public to shipping seed's to the US. admitted to making at least 4 million dollars.and you can bet the US. has already collected many of his US.customer's deposition's supporting there conspirsy theory.
I believe in the end,he will be extradited along with his fellow co-conspritor's,then once in a Federal detention center some one will take a 501 K.......they always do.
Yes, I agree with much of what you say as well. Usually I ty and keep the legalese to a minimum in my posts (which I don't always do a good job of! See my posts on car stops), but I can see that you clearly have some knowledge in this area and there isn't going to be any fooling you by laying out "possibilities" of what might happen...
In my post I was trying to just lay out some of the factors that might come in to play in an extradition case... but in this particular case of Marc Emery, regretably I have to agree with you that he is pretty much hooped.
The Extradition Act was signifigantly amended in 1999. I covered off most of this in an earlier post. Under the new Act the test the requesting state (the U.S.) has to meet is very minimal. Spending huge amounts of money on the top extradition lawyers in Vancouver, it would be possible to delay extradition for years... but probably not anything close to the Saxena case - now approaching a decade and still only heading to the B.C. Court of Appeal this fall. His case began under the old law as well, and that makes a difference.
I agree with you that a deal with Emery isn't that likely. The DEA probably already feels that they pretty much know what he did and how he did it. "Substantial cooperation" in Emery's case would be something like the full list of names to everyone he ever shipped to in the U.S. (maybe worldwide), what they bought, how much they paid, where the money went, documents, dates, the works. Emery would probably rather die (literally) than give that info to the DEA. But with the co-accused.... the U.S. Attorney's Office and the DEA may offer some kind of deal to one or both of them in order to ensure that they have an absolutely air-tight case on Emery when they get him back into the U.S.
ghostie's bottom line... yep, yer right. They're in a lot of trouble and have very few realistic avenues to get out. I suppose a part of me keeps hoping that our Federal Government here in Canada will step in and put a stop to this. They have the power to do it, despite what anyone says or what anyone - including the Minister of Justice and the Prime Minister - may tell you.
The DEA's scorched earth policy/final solution to the "drug problem" in the U.S. has ruined so many lives and caused so much pain and destruction. We don't want them here. We'll address our own drug issues in our own way. The United States simply cannot turn the entire world into it's own domestic jurisdiction by coercing ever more favourable extradition treaties and mutual legal assistance treaties from other countries, not to mention invading countries and setting up puppet dictatorships as they did in Afghanistan and Iraq. It has to stop somewhere. If it doesn't happen through the return of a reasonable Clinton-esque type administration, then it will happen through the Republicans bankrupting and destroying the country in their insane quest to achieve total dominance over everyone and everything.
In my post I was trying to just lay out some of the factors that might come in to play in an extradition case... but in this particular case of Marc Emery, regretably I have to agree with you that he is pretty much hooped.
The Extradition Act was signifigantly amended in 1999. I covered off most of this in an earlier post. Under the new Act the test the requesting state (the U.S.) has to meet is very minimal. Spending huge amounts of money on the top extradition lawyers in Vancouver, it would be possible to delay extradition for years... but probably not anything close to the Saxena case - now approaching a decade and still only heading to the B.C. Court of Appeal this fall. His case began under the old law as well, and that makes a difference.
I agree with you that a deal with Emery isn't that likely. The DEA probably already feels that they pretty much know what he did and how he did it. "Substantial cooperation" in Emery's case would be something like the full list of names to everyone he ever shipped to in the U.S. (maybe worldwide), what they bought, how much they paid, where the money went, documents, dates, the works. Emery would probably rather die (literally) than give that info to the DEA. But with the co-accused.... the U.S. Attorney's Office and the DEA may offer some kind of deal to one or both of them in order to ensure that they have an absolutely air-tight case on Emery when they get him back into the U.S.
ghostie's bottom line... yep, yer right. They're in a lot of trouble and have very few realistic avenues to get out. I suppose a part of me keeps hoping that our Federal Government here in Canada will step in and put a stop to this. They have the power to do it, despite what anyone says or what anyone - including the Minister of Justice and the Prime Minister - may tell you.
The DEA's scorched earth policy/final solution to the "drug problem" in the U.S. has ruined so many lives and caused so much pain and destruction. We don't want them here. We'll address our own drug issues in our own way. The United States simply cannot turn the entire world into it's own domestic jurisdiction by coercing ever more favourable extradition treaties and mutual legal assistance treaties from other countries, not to mention invading countries and setting up puppet dictatorships as they did in Afghanistan and Iraq. It has to stop somewhere. If it doesn't happen through the return of a reasonable Clinton-esque type administration, then it will happen through the Republicans bankrupting and destroying the country in their insane quest to achieve total dominance over everyone and everything.
They think they can and they are trying hard to do so!ghostie said:
As far as writing your MP to complain about this BS, what about those of us whose MP is a member of the Reform Party? Do you think Emery would get much sympathy from a fascist like Art Hanger? LOL!
yeah but we don't know if anyone will be extradited. a lot of is going to come down to pollitics as usual. i'd like to see them not do it, not just cause its the right thing to do but also the "american piss off factor" they keep fucking with us so guess what?????? no missle defence, no war on iraq, and no marc emery.nutbag said:
Since you were the recipient and thereby "touched" I believe this is the appropriate term; at least, it is the one used in fencing which is where the expression comes from. Touchez is to touch.Osiris said:
It most certainly is french.
Trust an American to try to explain vocabulary in a sport they know nothing about. Even if you were a fencer, you must know there is the vocabulary of fencing, and then there is what Americans think it is.Cali Scott said:
Is there anyone dumber than Cali Scott on this board?
Osiris said:
Hmm well you have said some pretty dumb things yourself. Your comment about the potency of pot, made me laugh.
I am still waiting to see who you say is doing genetic engineering on pot? I have only heard of cross breeding, which of course cannot increase potency. Genetic engineering is an expensive enterprise so not likely to happen in the pot community. Even GW pharmaceuticals which makes a drug derived from whole MJ, hasn't talked about GM research. An interesting side part to this is that Bayer, which has licensed the GW Pharm drug, is the originator of the trademark heroin. Interesting huh? Also, the pot community which use it for medicinal reasons wouldn't touch anything GM. Or maybe you got this mixed up with the other propaganda from the US, that Coca plants were supposed to have been genetically modified by a drug cartel. This new supposed GM version of coca resists the herbicide that US is dumping on them down in South America. This was later proven false by a botanist down in Venezuela. It was actually a naturally resistant strain of coca found in Bolivia that they were replanting in the herbicide affected areas.
Dumb to me is people that just parrot what ever their government tells them is the truth. You may also think Medical marijuana is a joke, what safe alternative do you know of that can replace it? Vioxx, now that would be a joke. Or maybe Oxycontin? In California medical MJ has been voted in, but that doesn't stop the DEA and the federal government they don't believe in democracy. The joke is the US drug war, and I for one would like to see it stay down in bush country.
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or crygreenvalley said:
. .greenvalley said:
Agreed. Just say NO!!!
...to the DEA and their Republican puppet masters.
That is complete BS. I do not tacitly condone his behaviour. I just have more important things to worry about. Why should we expect the Americans to respect our liberal views if we do not respect their conservative views on drugs? If he committed a crime in the US he should face their penalties even if we don't like them.Squirrel said:
I haven't followed the case that closely but if he taunted the US and then ran and hid behind the Canadian government or courts he is an idiot not worth protecting. Maintaining good relations with the US is important and there are more important issues for the government to worry about than protecting this guy. Why should all Canadians give up diplomacy points that could have real economic impacts to protect this guy?
I'm sick of marijuana advocates acting as if they have a worthy noble cause and are being persecuted. To other countries around the world we must look like a bunch of spoiled lazy brats.
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Only folks that have nothing to do but take anonymous pot shots (no pun intended)at someone. Your ignorance on other matters (as you regularly demonstrate here) shows you to be quite ignorant which is worse than dumb in anyone's book.Osiris said:
Know nothing about fencing, eh? Your ignorance is showing again dude. Are you trying to say that the expression did NOT originate in Fencing and that this is NOT the way it is spelled in Fencing? You should go back to your television right now before you embarass your self further babbling about that which you know nothing; it's calling you.
Do you beat your wife too? Yell at folks in traffic? You need some help dude.
Just because someone who says that pot puts folks in the ER says it is not a word does not mean that it is so.
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