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It is now legal for working girls to operate from their homes in Van

traveler

New member
Jun 1, 2002
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Heard this mentioned on CBC radio. Vancouver city council voted to allow SPs business to operate from their homes. Was included along with other businesses being allowed
 

michel

The Ultimate DDloverman
Jun 24, 2002
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www.akiraweb.com
Yipppie

Are you sure ?

any link on CBC?

If true this wiil be awesome!!!!
 

PiL

Banned
Jul 16, 2003
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Sheesh

For those who are legally challenged, there is no way that a by-law can supercede a federal law. All this story says is that they are changing a *by-law* to make it legal at the municipal level. Do you know what that means? It means they likely want to charge for licenses ahead of time like they do for strip clubs and massage parlours instead of having to chance down offenes to issue fines as they would have to now. It is a zoning issue....big deal. My question would be as to why they had a by-law specifically outlawing sex trade in houses with which to start (even Toronto doesn't do that as far as I know).

Of course, the federal bawdy house laws still apply so it will be interesting to see how Vancouver intends on collecting on something that is still illegal at the federal level (since it is illegal in Canada to collect money for criminal acts). If they are not completely daft, perhaps they are going to let it happen for free and prevent themselves from jail time themselves (that likely was one reason why the city staff were advising against the new by-law....to protect the city from federal prosecution).

I find it kinda counter-productive because Vancouver city council will be giving SPs a false sense of security that will likely only end with more SPs being charged with criminal offenses involving jail time. Until the federal laws are changed (or Vancouver separates from Canada), it will *still* be illegal to have incalls in Vancouver.

Word to SPs thinking of using this new by-law: talk to a good lawyer first.

PiL
 

sirlickheralot

Gold Member
Mar 11, 2003
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Vancouver
Pil

Since the Vancouver Police Department is responsible for enforcing the laws in Vancouver and they depend on Financing from the city to operate do you really think they would bite the hand that feeds them? If they start enforcing laws against the Councils wishes they may find themselves facing budget cuts. The police department has some discretion on how they allocate their resources and with this new bylaw I doubt they will waste any of their resources enforcing the federal bawdy house laws.
 

oberon1999

Cariñoso; Affectueux !!!
Jan 13, 2003
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Lower Mainland
Yeah I would not worry about VPD going above and beyond the call of duty these days, they lose 150+ officers this year due to stupid pension decisions... they got other worries..

oberon
 

vicgfelover

New member
Feb 23, 2003
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In my house
Wow. A spam free topic! Thank god.

Apparently city council has included escort services as allowable business in ground floor buildings in the downtown core even though city staff recommended to exclude them. Not sure if this is going to mean that much in terms of immediate changes though.

Perhaps this is the start of the thin edge to totally decriminalize and allow escort and other similar-oriented business to operate in peace! I for one hope so.

On global news coverage there was an allusion to us being considered "amsterdam of north amercia", we still have a LOOONNNNG way to go in that regards!
 

Groo39

Guest
Aug 21, 2003
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SP wasteland: SK
Re: Sheesh

PiL said:
For those who are legally challenged, there is no way that a by-law can supercede a federal law. All this story says is that they are changing a *by-law* to make it legal at the municipal level.
Prostitution is legal.
Solicitation is not.
Running a "bawdy house" is not.

However, my understanding is that a "bawdy house" has more than one SP working. As far as I know, it has always been legal for an SP to work out of her home, but most don't want the clients knowing where they live (for obvious reasons.)

I think a grey area shows up if you rent a place just for doing business and don't actually live there, as most incalls do.
 

Fatman15

New member
Mar 25, 2003
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Under the Georgia Viaduct
First, the decision to say that the politicians have balls is pre-mature since the mayor pulled up lame (he called in sick for the vote). I guess squaters in the park is ok, but what happens between consenting taxpaying adults is not.

Second, could you imagine a HK style 1-4-1 system here? You can read about it in the wsg hk section. Basically there it is legal for 1 woman to work out of 1 apartment. Now that would allow everyone to pursue this hobby without driving through someone's neighbourhood. Here is an example of the woman listed (click at the top right for English) www.happy161.comhttp://www.happy161.com
 

PiL

Banned
Jul 16, 2003
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sirlickheralot said:
Since the Vancouver Police Department is responsible for enforcing the laws in Vancouver and they depend on Financing from the city to operate do you really think they would bite the hand that feeds them?
The Vancouver police have no choice but to enforce the law (since they can be taken to task for not fulfilling their lawful duties) and if they were to be directed otherwise by the city and they actually listened, they would likely find the province pulling rank to have them enforce the law (since they allow cities to have money to spend on programs and it is the *province* that pays the police bills). And even if the province could be convinced to not enforce the law so unevenly as to only be in Vancouver, the RCMP are fully within their rights to enforce federal law and, coincidentally, charge the city of Vancouver directly for their specialized and grossly expensive services. If the city refuses to pay, they just get less in the form of transfer payments from provincial/federal sources. So you see, your city council really has no such power as you seem to be ascribing to them.

If you really think that Vancouver city council holds enough power to prevent the application of federal law, I have a bridge to sell you....

PiL
 

PiL

Banned
Jul 16, 2003
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Re: Re: Sheesh

Groo39 said:
Prostitution is legal.
Solicitation is not.
Running a "bawdy house" is not.
If you read my post, I never insinuate differently.

However, my understanding is that a "bawdy house" has more than one SP working. As far as I know, it has always been legal for an SP to work out of her home, but most don't want the clients knowing where they live (for obvious reasons.)

I think a grey area shows up if you rent a place just for doing business and don't actually live there, as most incalls do.
Please read the definition as posted by Oberon. A bawdy house is any place continually used for prostitution (although he left out the part that it must be more than once). Busts have taken place across Canada that involve one woman working in one apartment so it is by no means an immunity. The illusion of immunity exists because police generally only bust incalls that violate other laws as well (drugs, minors, etc.). In that respect, most incalls are *generally* safe.....but how sure are you about what goes on in that incall you are going to beyond the hour you are there? Is it worth the risk of a bust? Personally, I willingly take that risk all the time but I also feel it is important that others become fully aware of the implications of their actions before doing something that can end in a "found in" conviction. Incalls are *always* illegal at all times in all provinces of Canada and people need to be aware of that.

After all, this board is about education, is it not? :D

PiL
 

Groo39

Guest
Aug 21, 2003
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SP wasteland: SK
Re: Re: Re: Sheesh

PiL said:

A bawdy house is any place continually used for prostitution (although he left out the part that it must be more than once).
Yes, but therein lies the gray area -- how often does it have to be used to be "continuous"? Remember prostitution is legal. That implies that it has to be legal for the session to occur somewhere.

How many clients per week does an SP have to take to her home before it's a "bawdy house"? For argument's sake, let's say they decide 5 customers per week is enough to qualify.

Does that then mean that if I have 5 SP's over to do outcalls that my home is now a "bawdy house"?

The law may not be explicit as to the limits, but I can't see how it could ever be enforced without some "community standard" for how many SPs and how many clients before it's an issue. If you're in some bible-thumpin' town, maybe that limit is 1 -- as in one man, one woman, and you damned well better be married. In other towns and regions, it's more lax (e.g. the GTA and Van.)

Because of it's vagueness, I don't see the federal law as being much of an issue to "trump". Odds are it could be struck down by someone willing to spend enough cash to be fighting it for a few years in court.
 
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Saffire

Multi-faceted Member
Jun 28, 2003
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My Own Private Idaho
Legal or not, what landlord is going to allow in-calls in their building? Every lease I have ever signed states specifically that the dwelling cannot be used as a place of business. Even if there was an office building that would allow in-calls, providing it complies with the zoning laws, what if two or more SP's used that building? Does it not then become a bawdy house?

Not only would it put attention and focus on me and my business, it would also eliminate or hamper most clients' need for discretion.

No thanks.
 

wilde

Sinnear Member
Jun 5, 2003
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Quote from the mayor

"It's illegal, for starters," Vancouver mayor Larry Campbell says. "There's a federal law that makes it illegal to run a bawdy house, which is effectively what we're talking about here."

Not enforcing a law with respective to a certain activity (or being low priority) does not make that activity legal.

To PiL, you were bang on (BTW, do you have any ties to the UK?).
 

kapp

New member
Apr 4, 2003
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Not in my...

604-eros
"they should designate/zone an area that permits the 'bawdy house'. it will make policing easier. maybe even make it a red light district like in amsterdam."

There's a mentality of not in my backyard! Property values plummet.
 

sparx

Member
Jul 19, 2002
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Vancouver
The intent of the new regulation is to allow people to run offices from their homes. In other words you can book appointments, do you accounting but you cannot legally have clients come to your home for the pupose of sex for money.