Honey Harlotte
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Iraq: Tick, tock, thick talk!

Maury Beniowski

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Mar 31, 2004
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Things look pretty gloomy for the American soldier in Iraq these days. And it’s not going to get any better anytime soon. Putting on a brave face at the White House is not going to dispel the undercurrent of suspicion about the administration’s real motives in this conflict. The Sunnis who traditionally ruled the Shiite majority are not going to let go of power in Iraq, under any condition. They are well organized, trained and their surging numbers continue to grow and placate the new government.

A parallel can easily be drawn to the old Indian wars in North America. The war-faring Iroquois didn’t like the cozy arrangement the peaceful business-oriented Hurons had with the British, and almost decimated them, save a few hundred. Unfortunately the lessons of history are lost on America these days.

While there is no doubt about the technological superiority of the American Forces, they just cannot cope with the run-and-gun tactics of a very mobile insurgency carried out by the Sunnis. They are like mosquitoes surfacing here and there with relative impunity. Even if America raised its manpower to 5 million strong, they still could not prevail.

How long can America afford this conflict, both politically and financially? If oil was really the root cause of America’s invasion, why has the price of oil doubled since the start of this conflict? And what cost can the economy continue to bear as this futility plays itself out?

Remember, it takes ten times more troops to win a war on foreign soil, as it does to defend one's homeland... (I just made that one up)
 

luckydog71

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Maury Beniowski said:
A parallel can easily be drawn to the old Indian wars in North America. The war-faring Iroquois didn’t like the cozy arrangement the peaceful business-oriented Hurons had with the British, and almost decimated them, save a few hundred. Unfortunately the lessons of history are lost on America these days.
You have used an interesting parallel. So what if the European settlers had decided that fighting the North American Indian was not worth it and returned home to Europe. Many on this board see this as utopia.

At the risk of being label racists, I suggest that North America would not even be as advanced as South America is today. USA would not be the super power. There would have been no country capable of defeating Germany.

Germany would have ruled the world and the Arian Nation would have killed off all of the sub-humans.

Be careful what you wish for,
 

Herb_The_Perb

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Jan 5, 2005
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Luckydog, you totally missed Maury's point in your eagerness to make one of your own.
He's saying that on this continent, the war-making natives virtually eliminated the peaceful ones who had come to an accommodation with the overseas invaders/occupiers/colonizers, and that the same thing will happen in Iraq.

We now return to our regularly scheduled program.
 

JFK

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Oct 16, 2002
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Maury Beniowski said:
How long can America afford this conflict, both politically and financially? If oil was really the root cause of America’s invasion, why has the price of oil doubled since the start of this conflict? And what cost can the economy continue to bear as this futility plays itself out?
You are totally missing the point. The war was not for a good of America, it was for transfer of wealth from majority of people to selected few and it has succeded in it`s goals very well. The fact
that American workers got a 20% pay cut was also an added benefit.

Look at numbers in my posting here:

Not left, not right, just numbers

What other businesses do you know that has increased it`s official profit by 75% between 2003 and 2004?
 

luckydog71

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Herb_The_Perb said:
Luckydog, you totally missed Maury's point in your eagerness to make one of your own.
He's saying that on this continent, the war-making natives virtually eliminated the peaceful ones who had come to an accommodation with the overseas invaders/occupiers/colonizers, and that the same thing will happen in Iraq.

We now return to our regularly scheduled program.
Sorry Herb...I have overlooked the point that the Iroquois nation is a force to be reckoned with and they have out lasted the European invasion.

Are you saying the Iraqis tribes will suffer the same fate as the North American Indian? It has been a while since I was on an Iroquois reservation and in the Iroquois casino.
 

dittman

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Jan 22, 2003
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I suggest you read thomas friedmans article in the new york times from a couple of weeks ago makes for an interesting read. I dont know where you get your info maury but nothing has changed, well except more and more iraqi citizens are giving up insurgents. Trust me the only way the u.s would have pulled out is if jfk got elected. he didnt and bush kicked ass and we were saved for another 4 years.
 

gotsome2004

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Oct 16, 2004
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luckydog71 said:
You have used an interesting parallel. So what if the European settlers had decided that fighting the North American Indian was not worth it and returned home to Europe. Many on this board see this as utopia.

At the risk of being label racists, I suggest that North America would not even be as advanced as South America is today. USA would not be the super power. There would have been no country capable of defeating Germany.

Germany would have ruled the world and the Arian Nation would have killed off all of the sub-humans.

Be careful what you wish for,
I can't believe what I just read. Is this a joke? Your knowledge of history is lacking.

The British, French & Spanish settlers had a high mortality rate over here and early settlements depended upon Native help to survive. Early communities got along well with Native communities. But power interests in Europe invested in these communities to turn a profit for them which in turn led to many unscrupulous gun wielding speculators to misappropriate land from the native populations. In Chomsky's "The Conquest Continues" he points out that after the American Revolution the power interests that were in Europe were now based in Washington and inherited their bad habit of despoilation of other people's land and resources which continues to this day, Iraq included.

Another fallacy is the belief that North Americans are inheritantly superior to South Americans, hence the material wealth we have up here. False. After the Mexican/American war the balance of Industrial/Financial monopoly over the exploitation of natural resources in Central & South America went over to us.

And WW2 Germany was pretty much defeated in large measure by the Soviet Union, though our participation was of course helpful. (80% of German resources were directed to the east)

As for North America, had it not been exploited by Europe and later by America perhaps would have developed into something more meaningful than the mass consumerist, religious fast food wasteland of gas stations and shopping malls that we see today.
 

luckydog71

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My knowledge of history is not lacking. I am not the one that drew the parallel between Iraq today and the inter-tribal Indian wars in NA.

I was taught that if the Native Americans had not befriended the European settlers in the first few years they all would have starved to death.

I take that as an indication of European ingenuity. As a generalization Europeans are not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

The war with native Americans occurred in the 1800's. Is there any doubt who won?
 

Jonesy

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Apr 4, 2005
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Iraq is about oil - end of story.

There are dozens of countries with sad, sad situations with oppression etc. (think Zambia) and the US has done nothing.

The US Government did not go into Iraq with the prime motive of liberating Mom and Pa Iraqi. While that is a positive byproduct, it is about the oil. To suggest or think otherwise is simply naive.
 

eljudo

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Oct 15, 2002
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here we go again! and el judo will hope into the wagon!


US in in Iraq for OIL. dont give me the " democracy shall prevail shit "

Cuba? whats going on over there?

China? what the fuck? they are commie, but good cheap commies as they buy our shit, and we buy their cheap shits!

Africa... Hello.. are people still killing each other over there? anyone helping? hell, deseases is cleaning the continent clean!


This is a game about monopoly. Who controls what. Sooner or later china is going to demand more oil for its war machine, or hungry economy. Whom controls the most scarce and valuable resource of the world is out to win the war. be it a war of economics or a conventional war.


Hell what happeend to North Korea?
 

westwoody

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Jun 11, 2004
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Now I'm not an advocate of the US intervention but it does seem that more Iraqis are being killed by other Iraqis than by coalition troops.
As for the oil thing, I would really like to see some ACCURATE and VERIFIABLE numbers on current and pre-invasion production. From what I hear, the pipelines are constantly being sabotaged, foreign workers are being shot at, and is any oil at all even being exported? Bush et al had claimed early on that ending the oil for food program would allow enough exports to pay for reconstruction but that premise cannot still be valid.
 

dirtydan

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Oct 7, 2004
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luckydog71 said:
You have used an interesting parallel. So what if the European settlers had decided that fighting the North American Indian was not worth it and returned home to Europe. Many on this board see this as utopia.
A hell of a lot more First Nations peoples would have survived. From the Hudson's Bay Company handing out free blankets carrying small pox to the US government disregarding numerous treaties signed with various First Nations, there is little doubt who got screwed.


luckydog71 said:
At the risk of being label racists, I suggest that North America would not even be as advanced as South America is today. USA would not be the super power. There would have been no country capable of defeating Germany.
Assuming there would have been a Germany. Keep in mind Bismarck bringing together the many German states happened as a reaction to the growth and power of the British Empire. Instead of Europe's conquering of many indiginous peoples all over the world, the course of history would have been greatly altered. But making a buck at the expense of peoples being deemed inferior was the order of the day.



luckydog71 said:
Germany would have ruled the world and the Arian Nation would have killed off all of the sub-humans.
Like my comments above, your's are just pure speculation.