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in case you thought mankind was the only thing affecting the earth's climate...

vancity_cowboy

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How Distant Planets Affect Earth's Ice Ages And Gave Rise To Civilization
by Leslie Baehr
Business Insider
May 9, 2014, 3:18 PM

Human-induced warming is sending Earth into frightening and uncharted climate territory — but humans are not the first force to cause colossal changes to our climate.

Other celestial bodies, including planets, tug at Earth causing it to move in ways that affect our ice caps in history-shaping ways, as discussed by narrator and astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson on Sunday's Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey.


GIF From Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey, The Lost Worlds Of Planet Earth

Earth's axis is constantly changing.

For example, the pull of the planets influences Earth's tilt. They cause Earth's axis to wobble in a circular motion similar to the spin of a top. You can can see these movements in the Cosmos GIF above.

If you could stick a pen out of Earth's north pole, it would draw a circle about every 26,000 years. In 14,000 AD for example, our north star was not Polaris, as it is now, but Vega. In 12,000 years, Vega will be our north star again.

The pull of the planets also cause the Earth's tilt to change between 22.1 and 24.5 degrees over 41,000 years. When our tilt is more extreme, seasons can be more severe, with warmer summers and cooler winters. When the tilt is less, we get cooler summers and milder winters. Currently our tilt is about 23.4 degrees — near the middle.



In addition to Earth's rotation about its own axis, Earth wobbles like a top (left) and changes it's tilt (right) in response to the gravitational pull of other celestial bodies.

In the GIF below, you can see another effect of planetary pull. Earth's orbit is not round, but slightly egg-shaped or eccentric.

"The shape of the Earth's orbit changes from being elliptical (high eccentricity) to being nearly circular (low eccentricity) in a cycle that takes between 90,000 and 100,000 years," according to NASA's Earth Observatory.


GIF From Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey, The Lost Worlds Of Planet Earth
The Earth's eccentric and unsymmetrical orbit.

Currently, Earth is at its closest to the sun at the beginning of January when it is about 91.5 million miles away and at its furthest in July when it is about 94 million miles away. This corresponds to about a 6% difference in how much solar radiation the Earth receives.

Earth, planetary pull, and ice ages

During a highly elliptical orbit, the Earth would receive 20 to 30% higher sunlight intensity between its closest and furthest passes by Earth, "resulting in a substantially different climate from what we experience today," according to NASA.

The pull of every celestial body combines to create Earth's eccentricity, wobble, and tilt. These movements determine how our planet is positioned to receive sunlight and how much sunlight it can receive. Which of these is the dominant determiner of ice ages, however, is still not completely understood.

"There is still some discussion about how exactly this starts and ends ice ages, but many studies suggest that the amount of summer sunshine on northern continents is crucial: if it drops below a critical value, snow from the past winter does not melt away in summer and an ice sheet starts to grow as more and more snow accumulates," said the Intergovernmental Panel On Climate Change in their 2007 report.

One glacial period, or lack thereof, was particularly significant to human history: Fifteen to twenty-five thousand years ago, the northern ice cap shrunk, revealing a land bridge that our ancestors would use to cross from Eurasia into North America.

How ice forms civilizations

When Earth's northern region is ill-positioned to bathe in the sun's rays, the top third of the world becomes entombed in ice. You can see the northern polar ice cap expand all the way down over California and consume the better part of North America:


GIF From Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey, The Lost Worlds Of Planet Earth

When the ice grows, it siphons water from the sea, lowering sea levels 400 feet, said deGrasse Tyson. This exposes more land in coastal regions.

When Earth is at a prime angle for sunbathing, this ice thaws and sea levels rise. When Earth thawed about 15,000 to 25,000 years ago, receding ice exposed a land bridge connecting Eurasia and North America. This bridge would later be humanities route into North America.


GIF From Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey, The Lost Worlds Of Planet Earth

Roughly 10,000 years ago, "the manic swings of the climate and sea levels," subsided, said Tyson, "a new and gentler climate age began."

We entered an interglacial period that we still live in, "one of those balmy intermissions in an ice age," he said. Rivers transported fertile sediments into deltas, where some humans made their homes.


GIF From Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey, The Lost Worlds Of Planet Earth

Once solely wanderers, humans had time and resources in this interglacial period to settle and build the civilizations at the dawn of our history.

"The way the planets tug at each other, the way the skin of the earth moves, the way those motions affect climate, and the evolution of life and intelligence, they all combined to give us the means to turn the mud of those river deltas into the first civilizations," said Tyson.

Now go enjoy the beautiful interglacial period. You've only got about another 50,000 years. That is, if we don't throw it all out of wack with our greenhouse gas emissions.

GIFs from Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey, The Lost Worlds Of Planet Earth.

http://www.businessinsider.com/cosmos-explanation-of-earths-ice-ages-2014-5
 

johnsmit

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How come i heard about this . over 50 yrs ago.. And the globle warming fanatics seem to never had.
and thats why i dont believe have their BS.
 

johnsmit

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No i did not miss the whole point... most of what the artical said was ovious... but then again with out any archaeological evidence of prior civilizations..this is the assumed history..

The globle warming thing just my pet peev
 

johnsmit

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PG you did not read the artical very well.. and seem to think man is the cause of globle warming.. when all of climet history say.other wise.. I agree we definetly are contributing at this time .. But any majore changes are due to the natural cycle of the universal forces.. Same ones that effected mans physical and social evolution.
As for prior civilization i beleave there was a number of times when there was high social .. economics.. and indusrtel development.. Which was anversly effected by catastrophic events and climate change ..

Resaulting in most of the evidence of their existence in a row to buy the ice age.. and geological change and
 

HankQuinlan

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PG you did not read the artical very well.. and seem to think man is the cause of globle warming.. when all of climet history say.other wise.. I agree we definetly are contributing at this time .. But any majore changes are due to the natural cycle of the universal forces.. Same ones that effected mans physical and social evolution.
As for prior civilization i beleave there was a number of times when there was high social .. economics.. and indusrtel development.. Which was anversly effected by catastrophic events and climate change ..

Resaulting in most of the evidence of their existence in a row to buy the ice age.. and geological change and
No, again, YOU missed the point of the article. You are also a victim of the internet or Fox news or the Bible (or wherever you get your information denying man-made climate change). The article clearly points out that we should be getting another 50,000 years before major change, and instead we have maybe this century. The presenter of the series (Mr. Degrasse) has NO patience with climate change deniers, and shoots them down at every opportunity. You are just seeing what confirms your beliefs and ignoring the rest. You are a victim of the massive disinformation propagated by those profiting from big oil; and you really should think about it.

As for previous civilizations that we have no evidence of, well it would be nice to see your reason for belief in that. Then again, you seem to think that "belief" is just as valid as "evidence."
 

sdw

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No, again, YOU missed the point of the article. You are also a victim of the internet or Fox news or the Bible (or wherever you get your information denying man-made climate change). The article clearly points out that we should be getting another 50,000 years before major change, and instead we have maybe this century. The presenter of the series (Mr. Degrasse) has NO patience with climate change deniers, and shoots them down at every opportunity. You are just seeing what confirms your beliefs and ignoring the rest. You are a victim of the massive disinformation propagated by those profiting from big oil; and you really should think about it.

As for previous civilizations that we have no evidence of, well it would be nice to see your reason for belief in that. Then again, you seem to think that "belief" is just as valid as "evidence."
It is very likely that we don't have this century. One of the scientists at Scripps Institution of Oceanography put it "once you have fired the gun, you can't recall the bullet" He made a number of YouTube videos for BBC and I remember him predicting a "die off" because of the earth between the tropics becoming too hot and the earth at the poles becoming not cold enough. The heat exchange between the hot and cold is in the form of very large storms because the earth's heat sink is gone. This includes the Oceans which is becoming acidic (CO2) and too warm. He's not one of the scientists that think that things can be repaired with vast sums of money. The time for those kinds of changes would have been in the 50s and 60s when oceanographers were first warning that there was too much CO2 in the Ocean.

I can't find the BBC series, but here is Climate Change distilled into 15 minutes - note that the models already indicate that we can't reverse what is happening.

 
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sdw

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This YouTube is about what the Pacific Northwest can expect

 

johnsmit

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The therories that most of the scientific community put forward are just that therories. They get some fack... makeof a sanerio.. And then say the sky is falling and it all our falt. Sorry i not taking the blaim for it..
.
Everyone here is following some other persons..therory.. And believe it.. That does not make it all true... Never accuse some one of something that equaly can applie to belief that you spout as your own doctrine... we all evaluate an idea.and are willing to think of as being true or half truths.... Evidence of humane evalution... and globle changes.. is spare at best... and is found .. Much i hypothesized. and when new facts are found that changes..

I have a number of belief..or idea . that i can not say solely are held by me alone.. Nore will i say i blindly believe everything that is said to be pruff.. The past has showen. They have no dafinative prof when tring to state that as the athority on the subject.. They know what been going on for the last 5 billion.. Let alone the last 10 thousand.. They have bits and pieces.. But not all the facts..
 

HankQuinlan

I dont re Member
Sep 7, 2002
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victoria
The therories that most of the scientific community put forward are just that therories. They get some fack... makeof a sanerio.. And then say the sky is falling and it all our falt. Sorry i not taking the blaim for it..
.
Everyone here is following some other persons..therory.. And believe it.. That does not make it all true... Never accuse some one of something that equaly can applie to belief that you spout as your own doctrine... we all evaluate an idea.and are willing to think of as being true or half truths.... Evidence of humane evalution... and globle changes.. is spare at best... and is found .. Much i hypothesized. and when new facts are found that changes..

I have a number of belief..or idea . that i can not say solely are held by me alone.. Nore will i say i blindly believe everything that is said to be pruff.. The past has showen. They have no dafinative prof when tring to state that as the athority on the subject.. They know what been going on for the last 5 billion.. Let alone the last 10 thousand.. They have bits and pieces.. But not all the facts..
Just like Godwin's Law posits that when Hitler/Nazis are brought up when discussing contemporary politics, there should be a "law" that when "evolution is just a theory" is brought up in a thread concerned with science, that person is immediately disqualified from commenting. The specific details how evolution functions are revised as new facts emerge from research, but it is the absolute basis of whole branches of science from geology to biology and medicine. "Doubt" indicates no knowledge whatsoever of modern science. That others share your belief is not relevant; they are in the same category.
 

johnsmit

Active member
May 4, 2013
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sorry you fall in to that catigory too

I fermily agree with evalutio.. And climet change.. but the when and where and how. are purly conjecture.. when you take in concideration how long there acctually have been an active investigation in to all the history and artifacts .. ..There are even errors and omition it deserning more resent history of man. And thats with far more preserved evidence then what we have...from eons ago
 

yazoo

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I'm so glad that I don't have kids who will have to suffer through the next 80 years. If I did, I'd be buying property in the far north.

Even 30 years from now is not going to be a walk in the park. I imagine there will be wars over resources, the Stars and Stripes will be flying over Prince George city hall, and mongering vacations to Pacific islands will be impossible as they'll be either fried or innundated.

So much suffering - countries with the highest populations are the ones that will become deserts.

For us small guys... where to live, be fed and how to stay out of the way of trouble?
 

sdw

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Actually, in regards to ancient climatic conditions, we have pretty good and pretty continuous data from multiple sources. Ice cores, lake and ocean sediments, tree rings, etc. We also have the astronomical observations and analysis as the initial article describes. We have the laws of physics that explain the earth's solar thermal balance and how the changes in the mixture of atmospheric gases change that balance. So the fact of anthopomorphic climate change is not in dispute by qualified scientists. The rate and extent of those changes is currently under active analysis because the Earth's climate is the end result of some very complex systems with feedback and damping loops. But the projected margins of error are much narrower than they were a decade ago.

As for human history, there will always be missing pieces. Do you still have every document and every photograph and every audio recording that has passed though your hands? No. and thus those pieces of human history are gone. There is always an enormous amount of information created in the process of living a human existence and most of it is ephemeral. While there are still some existing regular apartment buildings in Rome that are over 1,500 years old, many of the other buildings over that time were torn down, their stones and bricks reused in other buildings and their lands redeveloped. That is the nature of civilization. But the outlines of history are mostly there, in some areas only in broad strokes and in others quite fine grained.
Both Eden and Atlantis have been the subject of much searching. Both by Biblical Scholars and by Scientists. The pinpointing of Eden would be proof that much of the Bible is true. The pinpointing of Atlantis would confirm the stories that were handed down and finally written by the Greeks.

It's quite likely that Eden was in what is now the Persian Gulf. Evidence shows that there was a Dam between what is now Abu Dhabi and Iran. When the Dam was overtopped by raising Sea Levels in the Arabian Sea, Eden was drowned. That gives credence to the Story of Noah and many other stories in the Bible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_of_Eden



There was an Ice Dam up towards Norway that collapsed completely about 9,000 years ago. It flooded a large fertile area that had enjoyed having the Thames, Rhine, Seine and Somme rivers joining into a large river that flowed into the Bay of Biscay. When the Ice Dam collapsed there was also an series of Ice Dams that failed one after another in North America. That permitted the Interior Ocean that covered most of North America to flow into the Atlantic Ocean. There was a significant rise in Sea Levels - all in the area of 8,000 - 9,000 years ago. Amazing how that all fits in with the flooding of Eden and the flooding of Atlantis.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outburst_flood
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula_Floods

It didn't take much warming to cause the Ice Dams to melt. The proof of the rise of the Oceans can be found all over the world, especially where the old Sea Ports of the ancient world still exist on the sea bottom.

Once the Greenland and Antarctica Ice Sheets have completed melting, which will take a few years - but nowhere near a century, the Ocean levels will have raised as much as 10 feet or more.
 
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