Didn't pay fee? We'll watch while your house burns down.

Lone Wolf

New member
Mar 31, 2005
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Not unlike communism, libertarianism sounds great in theory but just doesn't work in practice. Here's a perfect example of what sort of disaster can result when the libertarian mindset of "less government-no-taxes-privatize everything" is put into practice.

Ayn Rand Conservatism at Work -- Firefighters Let Family's House Burn Down Because Owner Didn't Pay $75 Fee

Talk of limited government is appealing until you see what it actually means in practice: a society in which it's every man for himself.

By Joshua Holland - AlterNet.

Thanks to 30 years of right-wing demagoguery about the evils of “collectivism” and the perfidy of “big government” -- and a bruising recession that’s devastated state and local budgets -- we’re getting a peek at a dystopian nightmare that may be in our not-too-distant future. It’s a picture of a society in which “rugged individualism” run amok means every man for himself.

Call it Ayn Rand’s stark, anti-governmental dream come true, a vision that last week turned into a nightmare for Gene Cranick, a rurual homeowner in Obion County, Tennessee. Cranick hadn’t forked over $75 for the subscription fire protection service offered to the county’s rural residents, so when firefighters came out to the scene, they just stood there, with their equipment on the trucks, while Cranick’s house burned to the ground. According to the local NBC TV affiliate, Cranick “said he offered to pay whatever it would take for firefighters to put out the flames, but was told it was too late. They wouldn't do anything to stop his house from burning.”

The fire chief could have made an exception on the spot, but refused to do so. Pressed by the local NBC news team for an explanation, Mayor David Crocker said, “if homeowners don't pay, they're out of luck.”
Yup. America...land of freedom and prosperity. For those who can afford it. :rolleyes:
 

mimi

New member
Oct 9, 2008
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Lower Mainland
Does is make sense to be anti-government when you drive on roads, use hospitals, enjoy potable water and electricity? These infrastructures were all created through government funded projects.

I always tell anti-govt. folks to move out of town, get off the grid and be totally self sufficient...then snark all you want.

Want a better government? Get involved.
 

juniper

New member
Apr 11, 2006
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This situation of the house burning down is kind of extreme but it does signify that folks need to learn to become more personally responsible. There is always a shifting balance between total dependence on oneself and total dependence on the community. We have seen the awful effects of social welfare and labour union dependence in this country. It strangles individual initiative and takes peoples' personal power away. We cannot do without government and community involvement but a better balance needs to be reached. In my estimation, in Canada, there is far too much dependence and this situation will become ruinous if it goes on much longer.
 

uncleg

Well-known member
Jul 25, 2006
5,655
839
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Theres TAXES and then theres the INCOME tax which is theft and un constitutional in the us. You can pay taxes on gas, food, etc but having to pay a tax off your wages is bullshit. Besides if your gonna be a fireman and stand around and watch someones house burn because they didnt pay a bill, you have no soul.
Havng to rely on someone else for the basics to survive isnt smart. Not a bad idea to grow atleast some of your own food. FEMA sure showed us what tax dollars can do with hurricane katrina.

Theres small government that does whats asked of it by the people, and then theres big goverment run by offshore interests, like the current american government.

Small governemt is ok, big goverment is NOT ok.

When the govt fears the people there is liberty, when the people fear the govt there is tyranny.

O.K. so if the U.S. Government is such a big problem, why aren't you in the U.S. doing something about it ? Another option is to join up with the Taliban, they at least seem to be trying, but that might take you from the comforts of home. On the other hand if you are an American, and this is your way of looking for help from Canadians to fix a screwed up American system, don't hold your breath.
 

Adriana✿

New member
Sep 2, 2008
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Happily Ever After!
As an Ayn Rand lover, I seem to recall her not being a huge fan of the Conservatives. Just saying :cool:.
I love her too and have read all her stuff. The Fountainhead should be required reading in high school!

The Fire Chief is a second hander. And it sound like his county is devoid of objectivism. What a dick!

Don't feed the troll Audrey LOL
 

vancity_cowboy

hard riding member
Jan 27, 2008
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if the guy wanted coverage, all he had to do is pay his taxes. who knows, the guy could have a history of all kinds of unpaid property related taxes and the 'journalist' could have a reputation for all kinds of 'yellow' journalism

maybe the guy's got a reputation for taking pot shots at tax collectors!

as far as i'm concerned we know far too little about the situation to be passing judgement on the fire chief

what i do know is that the municipality's liability insurer would have a bird over the fire department participating in a fire outside of their coverage area... and the coverage area ends at a property line where the fire-fighting tax has not been paid. what if after suffering fire and water damage and loss of pets and precious heirlooms and 'pain and suffering and mental anguish' the owner turned around and sued the ass off the municipality for their fire department doing an inadequate job of fighting the fire? that is why they would not enter the property, because as soon as they set foot on the place they could be held legally liable for anything going wrong

sorry to rain on anybody's parade, but in a rural area outside a small community, i think the fire chief made the right decision
 

vancity_cowboy

hard riding member
Jan 27, 2008
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jawy, if you've got a problem with prostitution, i recommend you go to another board

anybody else think jawy could use a short holiday?
 
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storm rider

Banned
Dec 6, 2008
2,543
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Calgary
For the guy not to pay a lousy $75 a year for rural fire protection is his own stupidity......it would be equal stupidity for someone to cancel their home insurance when the have paid off their mortgage with the reasoning of " I have never used it before and I will save $65 a month"......1 fire later or a tree falling on your house and suddenly saving $65 a month is a really stupid idea.

SR
 

littlejimbigher

New member
Jun 21, 2006
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surrey
With 3 dogs and a cat dying in the blaze I believe the so called firefighters are a bunch of useless twits.
To arrive and keep the neighbours house protected and then let innocent animals die is not in the same tradition as the firefighters that went into the twin towers to rescue people knowing that they themselves probably were not coming out.
PS My dad is a retired firefighter and he said he would have put the fire out irregardless of what bigwigs said.
 

juniper

New member
Apr 11, 2006
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Jahve--I get your point. Assuming it's true that her brother is, or was, a drug addict and nearly died (from an overdose), we really cannot go back and assume that the parents were responsible or that they did a poor job bringing the boy up. Peer pressure and influence is far more significant than it used to be a half century ago. Furthermore, we have become urbanized, less personal, and the former institutions such as churches and schools which used to involve themselves by limiting and disciplining child and adolescent behaviour have diminished considerably in importance. This is all by way of stating that we can not automatically make parents responsible for their respective teenage and adult children's bad or self-destructive behaviour.

More to the point, depending on who and what they are and what their expectations for their children were/are, the parents may well be disappointed, very disappointed, even shocked, given that (as you say) one child turned out to be a self-destructive drug user and the other a (high class) prostitute. As I said once before, no parent (it would be extremely rare) ever brings up his/her baby daughter (or son) with dreams of her becoming a prostitute. I know there is a strong element on this forum who view prostitution, at least escorting, as not only respectable but even desirable but I don't buy this politically correct notion. You have been demonized by previous comments, Jahve, due to your unpopular perspective and perhaps the direct and rough manner in which you communicate. Nonetheless, you should be heard as what you have to say has a large element of truth in it as far as I'm concerned. You might try a less confrontational style of communication, however, in order to preserve your audience's attention.
 
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vancity_cowboy

hard riding member
Jan 27, 2008
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PS My dad is a retired firefighter and he said he would have put the fire out irregardless of what bigwigs said.
the sentiment is correct and appreciated; however, your dad did not have to work in an environment completely dominated by fear of legal liability, and therefore the big insurance companies. i will also hazard a guess that your dad worked in a time when there were plenty of high paying jobs around if you got fired from your job. i also doubt whether your dad would have gone against his chief or the fire boss of the shift

i have worked in the utilities field, and believe me, when my boss made it clear that he was unquestionably required to fire anybody that violated the insurance liability guidelines, we all listened and changed our behaviours accordingly
 

Miss*Bijou

Sexy Troublemaker
Nov 9, 2006
3,136
44
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Montréal
With 3 dogs and a cat dying in the blaze I believe the so called firefighters are a bunch of useless twits.
To arrive and keep the neighbours house protected and then let innocent animals die is not in the same tradition as the firefighters that went into the twin towers to rescue people knowing that they themselves probably were not coming out.
PS My dad is a retired firefighter and he said he would have put the fire out irregardless of what bigwigs said.

No shit, eh. Sheesh. Seems like the human thing to do. Who freakin' cares about stupid policy, buraucracy and other non-sense.
That's what ya call mindless and apparently heartless sheep.



Does is make sense to be anti-government when you drive on roads, use hospitals, enjoy potable water and electricity? These infrastructures were all created through government funded projects.

I always tell anti-govt. folks to move out of town, get off the grid and be totally self sufficient...then snark all you want.

Want a better government? Get involved.
We are the ones paying the government. I don't see how that means they're doing us a favor by using some of our money towards something we use or benefit from.


The truth of it is that these days getting involved in a way that risks actually making a difference means most likely being labeled a terrorist or a threat, being harassed or investigated without valid reasons and of people around you being harassed because the nature of your involvement goes against what the government is doing or saying. Otherwise you can send out letters to your representatives or collect names for a petition which is a safe way to get involved. It's also a safe way to waste your time and to be involved on making no difference whatsoever. Until recently, public demonstration or protest would have also fit in this category but now that's likely to get you arrested, so apparently that now qualifies as radical and extreme too. :rolleyes:


Government is nothing without the money and power we give them. Take that money and power and leave out the government and there's nothing stopping you from building those roads and infrastructures. Nevermind that you'd know where the money went, how it was spent and that you actually had a say in how it was used.


The government isn't supposed to be in a separate class, one that makes all the decisions. They are supposed to be representatives for the rest of us, entrusted with the duty to based on our and with our interests in mind. That would imply much more transparency, fairness, honesty and would encourage expressions of dissent as valid, valuable and critical to their roles. A government that shows such a paranoid, secretive and exclusive mentality and resorts to intimidation, fear, police force and the threat of legal repercussions for people who dare question policies or that demand more accountability & transparency is one that no longer considers its role as being representatives but one of being in a separate class no longer accountable to the rest of us. A government that feels entitled to take whatever necessary actions against dissidents getting involved in denouncing actions clearly not made with our benefits in mind.


Government has little to do with the rest of us, or with roads or infrastructures for that matter. They're playing a different game, have interests other than ours in mind and make decisions according to those. I'm pretty sure government, at least the current version of government, isn't essential in the creation of these things... the money is. And that belongs to us and comes from us... How ridiculous is it that we give them all the money, offer them lots of power and do not say a word when much of what is done with it is kept secret from us...or used against us to make sure we don't find out.

 
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PhoneGirl

This is incredibly sad. There is no valid reason a citizen should be denied basic emergency services because of a $75 fee .. :(
 

gpchillin

New member
Apr 20, 2008
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Grande Prairie
Well if they did help then people would be like fuck paying they are going to put it out anyways because way to many people are assclowns now a day. The house was out in the country so its not like its a city funded fire department if nobody pays then there would be no fire department at all so thats why they charge. It sucks for both the owner and the fire fighters but if they had saved the house next year i guarentee the amount of people paying the yearly fee would drop quite considerably because thats just the world we live in unfortunately.
 
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PhoneGirl

That's a pretty blanket statement.

There is a large portion of people in this world that pay their bills compared to how many people don't pay their bills. People who pay their bills and take care of their finances don't look at people who don't pay their bills and say "oh well they aren't paying them, so I won't either." You would think that basic care like emergency medical, fire, and police wouldn't restrict their services based on financial standing.
 
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