Karina Espinosa
E.D. Meds

Comes back to bite you in the ass

Saffire

Multi-faceted Member
Jun 28, 2003
271
0
0
My Own Private Idaho
Where is the line between trust and stupidity? It seems the more I believe that people will treat me with the same respect and level of trust that I give them, the more I get screwed over.
Here's the deal: I had a client Friday night. He planned for the hour and mentioned that he might want to extend if round one was good. I quoted him the donation for both 1 hr and 2. The first hour was fantastic. The chemistry was right and the enjoyment was mutual, so he decided to stay for round two. I excused myself, went to the washroom to freshen up and asked him to add the appropriate amount to the existing donation. Now, I never count, or even look at the donation in front of a client. I think it's rude and disrespectful. Sometimes I forget entirely, and don't ask for it until the end - which I know I shouldn't do, but like I said, I tend to believe that people are honest and will treat me with the same respect that I treat them. (This is why I've been ripped off on more than one occasion.) When I returned, he excused himself to the washroom, and told me he added more to the donation. While he was in the washroom, I checked the amount and found it appropriate. He stayed close to 3 hours, almost an hour passed what the donation covered. I didn't mind as I usually go overtime anyway. I didn't look at the donation until the next afternoon, and when I did, I found it was short by 1 brown. I did a search, thinking maybe the fan blew it away, or it fell. No brown. I'm still shaking my head and asking if he would really take one back, leaving less than what I had quoted him for the 2 hours. Who would do that? We had an amazing time, he was a nice man and yet he ripped me off. I don't get it.
Now, I have his cell phone number and could call him, but (unbelievably), I won't. He is married, and I won't push those limits of confidentiality. But he reads this board, and knows now that just because I didn't call, doesn't mean it went by without being noticed, or that it was acceptable.

Having said that, I would like to ask all of you lovely pooners out there your opinion on something. According to many reviews, there are more and more sessions going overtime without being paid for. I'm not saying it's wrong, I let it happen all the time, and unless I have obligations after, I usually encourage going over time. But it seems many men believe that if the SP is having a good time and enjoying it as much as the client, that the extra time she gives you doesn't need to be paid for. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you want the SP, at the very least, to pretend she's enjoying herself and getting into it as much as you are? No one likes a cold SP, and the more receptive she is , the better. By this theory, it seems the better an SP is at her job, the less she is being compensated, with mentions of even getting the sessions for free. And I can't forget to mention my favorite comment from more than one client "You should be paying me."

In my quest to meet and exceed my clients expectations (sorry, too many seminars), I would like to know what the general opinion is on this. Is it up to the SP to ask for more money if the session goes overtime? Would it bother you if she did? Do any of you offer to pay more? Do you think you should have to pay more?

Help please!:confused:
 

TheGuy

Banned
Jul 26, 2003
1,186
7
0
Vancouver
Don't get screwed!

Maybe the guy ripped you off - maybe it was an error of some sort. i would reccomend the follow - it is great when an SP goes overtime, it is great when I give one of my business clients something for free. You mistake is just giving it. Stick to your deal. If it is 2 brown per hour stick to it. If you WANT to go over by one hour and NOT charge tell the client "Your paid time is up, however, we are both enjoying ourselves so lets continue - It's on me!"

When i give a business client a 'freebie' I still issue and invoice and mark that it has been paid by me. See the difference? One way make people think you are doing it because you don't think it has value the other says "I am giving you a deal - because i have choosen to do so!"

Also, most professionals (consultants, etc) get paid in advance and many will not begin work until they are paid. I would reccomend you do the same. Nothing wrong with that!

I think most people are nice and honest - however, perhaps your behavior has been making it a little too easy not to be.

the guy
 

oberon1999

Cariñoso; Affectueux !!!
Jan 13, 2003
326
0
0
Lower Mainland
Saffire So sorry to hear about that i was talking about people in the thread below...

https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4412

Now about your question of paying for overtime, It`s a hard one, I mean I expect you to get paid what you are due so that is one side but the other is how do you control the session -- you know two minute warning bell or what :)... If we go a few minutes over then that`s just the way it is but an hour is way different.

I assume some women who allow overtime do so as a way of securing repeat business which I think is fair and then to them that would have some value in and of itself but again.... I guess most guys assume if you don`t politely say "oh that hour went by fast" that the rest is on the house so to speak, and I guess that may not be the right thing to assume (ok I`m guilty I admit it)..

You know my feelings on how an escort should make a client feel (if you read my other posts) so I can`t use the oh but she was enjoying herself excuse, but that is in fact what I would feel if you do your job right .. man you do get into complicated areas don`t you :)

You should ask for more money if the session is going way overtime and you feel it is your due, your challenge is to do it in a way that does not kill the session and of course you have to pick the right time, not at all an easy task :-(

I try and stay more or less on time I mean I have other comitments too but I know for a fact several times as official time ran out things were at a very critical point :) so I was glad we did not break to discuss finances... but I see your point.. I also don`t often carry an extra wad of cash with me ..

Ok so now you have to be sexy, intuitive, undertanding, strong, inventive and have impecable timing ..... I`m not sure I have solved anything here ....

My dear when we do finally me meet again please feel free to set an alarm clock ;-))

oberon

(just read theguy`s post, good advice really and more concise than my ramblings)
 

Saffire

Multi-faceted Member
Jun 28, 2003
271
0
0
My Own Private Idaho
Re: Don't get screwed!

TheGuy said:
I think most people are nice and honest - however, perhaps your behavior has been making it a little too easy not to be.
the guy [/B]
Unfortunately, you're right. But I hate being taken advantage of. It shouldn't be like that.

I don't mind giving free time, that's not the issue. Its that he had put down the right amount and then when I checked it, it was 1 brown less than what was there the first time. If it wasn't enough to begin with, I would have mentioned it.
Do I have to start checking the amount in front of the client? I don't want to have to do that, but how can things like this be avoided if I don't?
 

bananaboy

Poon Disciple
Mar 21, 2003
67
0
0
Hey Saffire,

I totally agree with what TheGuy stated above!

I've run into the situation where the time went over a few times.. It really depends on the situation, IMO.

One time I had a great time with the girl, we ended up going over a 2 hr appt by about 6 hours... Her choice, and she made that quite clear as the 2 hours came to an end.

Another time, I got a warning at the "10 minutes left" time, and the girl there let me know that if we went beyond that, it would cost more. We agreed on the cost etc, and things were great.

If you're having a smashing great time, and want to spend more time with the person, I say let them know it's "on you." Otherwise, if it's the client that wants more time, agree on a price and get the donation taken care of at that time.

I will say one more thing... I rarely bring more than what I am planning on spending for the session, so asking for more money afterwards would not only make me feel uncomfortable, it would be impossible for me to do unless planned for before hand.
 

oberon1999

Cariñoso; Affectueux !!!
Jan 13, 2003
326
0
0
Lower Mainland
Re: Re: Don't get screwed!

Saffire said:
Unfortunately, you're right. But I hate being taken advantage of. It shouldn't be like that.

I don't mind giving free time, that's not the issue. Its that he had put down the right amount and then when I checked it, it was 1 brown less than what was there the first time. If it wasn't enough to begin with, I would have mentioned it.
Do I have to start checking the amount in front of the client? I don't want to have to do that, but how can things like this be avoided if I don't?
Take the donation at the start quickly step out of the room or eyesight and put it somewhere. Count it quickly then. I take absolutely no offense to this sort of thing.!!!.. In fact i hate it when people leave relatively large amounts of $$ laying around ( the Scotsman in me coming out)

oberon
 

PiL

Banned
Jul 16, 2003
52
0
0
Being scammed

While I agree that it is good business to sometimes be free with your time and services for future prospects, I think this instance was different. I don't know if I am reading Saffire's post wrong but she said she had checked the 2 hour donation and it was all there....then it was short by $100 when she checked it again after the client had left.

If I'm reading it wrong, I apologize and you should just ignore me; if I read it right, there is no excuse for a client to short someone on an agreed upon rate. If he didn't feel the SP was up to the cost, he had the option to leave after one hour as originally planned. You might even make a case for accidentally shorting the SP for the second hour if you miscounted or didn't have enough money. But to pay it down and then take it back?

Please tell me I'm not the only one who sees that perhaps the client needs to be strung up as a warning to others who may try.

Saffire....my suggestion would be that as soon as you count anything, put it somewhere that is no longer easy to steal but still accessible to you. Possibly jar or cigar box to cut down on the temptation for someone to take a bill back.

PiL
 

oberon1999

Cariñoso; Affectueux !!!
Jan 13, 2003
326
0
0
Lower Mainland
Re: Being scammed

PiL said:

Please tell me I'm not the only one who sees that perhaps the client needs to be strung up as a warning to others who may try.

PiL
You are not ..... theft is theft

oberon
 

PiL

Banned
Jul 16, 2003
52
0
0
Geez....

Do I really type that slow? Four posts in the time I took to write my one?

Man, I need to practice more often.... :D

PiL
 

wilde

Sinnear Member
Jun 5, 2003
3,023
22
38
Clarification please

Its that he had put down the right amount and then when I checked it, it was 1 brown less than what was there the first time. If it wasn't enough to begin with, I would have mentioned it.
I am assuming that he gave you the agreed donations for 1 hr "the first time."

So did he short changed you 1 brown for 2 hrs? Or did he only give you your normal donation for an hour less 1 brown?

Sorry to hear you got screwed (no pun intended).
 

guavaboy

New member
Aug 9, 2003
13
0
1
saffire i think your assessment is exactly right - voluntary free time is not (and should not be) an issue. but being betrayed, indeed robbed, by him taking $ back ... that's seriously wrong, definitely theft. oberon's suggestion is a good one - putting money away when someone's given it to you is not at all offensive. heck, my parents used to harp on this when i received money gifts as a kid - "put it away! put it away!" combine that with an inconspicuous visual check of the amount (which you did) and you're covered. in the meantime please don't lose all faith ...
 

Saffire

Multi-faceted Member
Jun 28, 2003
271
0
0
My Own Private Idaho
Wow, I go have a shower and look what I return to. Thanks guys.
I'm not sure if I'm allowed to do this or not (Fred, this isn't an ad), but I will quit with the innuendos about the money. He put down 2 browns for the first hour (agreed upon rate), then added 2 more for the next hour. When I picked up the money the next day there were only 3 browns, again, after I looked thouroughly in case it fell or blew away. That brings it to less than what I quoted for 2 hours.

So what I've gathered from the replies is that it should be left to the SP to bring up additional charges for extra time, otherwise it is assumed to be 'on the house'. Is this right? It took me a while to learn that, but I do agree. As a newbee, I would assume the client was willing to pay for the overtime that he spent. It made sense to me since he knew the business and that dollars spent earned time given. I do however think that out of respect and common courtesy that an offer should be made, or mention of spending more is not what you had in mind or are unable to do.
This might sound quite hypocritical, but I really don't like dealing with the money issue, and prefer it not to be mentioned. I've given the rate, so it should be put on the counter or somewhere in plain sight as soon as you come in, and not brought up again. It feels rude to ask for more money at the end of the first time period. "Sure, you can stay. But only if you give me more money." I'm overplaying the rudeness, I know, but no matter how tactfully I phrase it, that's what I hear coming out of my mouth. There should be a code word or hand gesture. I know, if I start fondling my left breast, it means you can stay for free. If I fondle the right one, it means more pay for more play. As a response from the client - well I guess if he starts getting dressed, it means he's leaving.

Oberon, I would never dream of setting an alarm clock. If it would make you feel better, I'll leave one out and you can set it if you would like to. It's really loud though, similar to a fire alarm. Let's just hope it doesn't go off at an inappropriate time;)
 

Curious Boy

New member
Aug 4, 2002
95
0
0
Downtown
being sweet = being taken advantage of

Saffire, I think you should be careful not to confuse what I see as 2 distinct issues here: going overtime & simply being shorted.

The lady is in charge of the session, and the onus is on her to watch the clock. If she mentions the time, then I'm obligated to respect her direction. If she is enjoying my massage and so relaxed she forgets the time, am I obligated to pay? I don’t think so. My intention is not to short her, or take advantage. It’s simply two people enjoying the moment. Is she likely to pretend I am the greatest lover of all time? Probably. But, there should still be a clock within sight.

As for your nice gentleman, he shorted you. Plain & simple. He took advantage of your kindness. Like the well dressed patron of a fine restaurant who walks without settling the bill. This nice man is a cad !

Settling the business issue is not being rude. PiL & Oberon are right. Simply excuse yourself, move the donation, and remove the temptation. Such a clear sign helps us both relax, and attend to the business at hand ;-)

Taking care of business is not being rude. You need to take care of yourself first, client second. Only then will the client be best served !
 

oberon1999

Cariñoso; Affectueux !!!
Jan 13, 2003
326
0
0
Lower Mainland
Saffire said:

Oberon, I would never dream of setting an alarm clock. If it would make you feel better, I'll leave one out and you can set it if you would like to. It's really loud though, similar to a fire alarm. Let's just hope it doesn't go off at an inappropriate time;)
LOL I was kidding...and hoping it was a clock radio set to nice startion.... But I do understand the need to keep track of time Curious Boy makes some good points a clock visible is always OK by me, his other points are right on you do have two issues here one is out and out theft the other is a bit trickier but when it comes right down to it to use a cold analogy it is a business and you are the business owner so you have to look after the business..

Curious Boy also did a good job of paraphrasing my latest life motto "you can't make anyone else happy unless you are happy" Get business out of the way quickly and then move on, I would never complain about that money is always a bit embarassing for both just get it overwith and SAFELY away. Then work on the illusion (or hell maybe it is not an illusion that's the fun part)

oberon
 

Massagegirl

Banned
Mar 25, 2003
893
1
0
Great advice guys!

I had this problem too when I first started out, not wanting to be rude, but after someone took some money back I realized "lead not into temptation" and now I always take the donation out of the room and count it in the hall. That way if it's not accurate I can go right back in while the client is still dressed. I always get it up front cuz I have had regulars forget after the session, then come back later which wastes their time. Also if someone wants a second hour I fetch their wallet for them and stash the payment out of sight.

That's nice of you Saffire not to call the guy but you really should, if you are positive it didn't blow away. You can always hang up if a woman answers. His thievery should have some consequences, and he's going to avoid you now anyway....

I knew a girl once who was given a bad check by a regular who then repeatedly neglected to pay her back, so she dressed up like a SW and went to his place of work and announced to the secretary that she wasn't leaving til she got paid. Extreme but funny.
 

oberon1999

Cariñoso; Affectueux !!!
Jan 13, 2003
326
0
0
Lower Mainland
Re: Great advice guys!

Massagegirl said:
I always get it up front cuz I have had regulars forget after the session, then come back later which wastes their time.
Yep almost done that twice...feel pretty stupid when they have to remind you as you walk out the door...way too relaxed..

oberon
 

agent_smith

Banned
Feb 20, 2003
128
0
0
Sapphire

I think that sometime communications is probably the best policy. Also before you get all worked up, which maybe is too late now, check your bag like Alex suggested. I know sometimes I think I put my money somewhere and it's somewhere else. Or else I used it to buy gas or a snack and forgot about it the next day. If he is a regular, I don't really see him trying to screw you over. Isn't it more common with a new client?

AS
 

myjt23

New member
Jun 10, 2003
11
0
0
vancouver
Sorry to hear about this...

But I kind of find it strange that when you see an SP that the fee isn't counted and put away in a safe location. That way everything is kosher and you can concentrate on having fun. I think this leaving the fee in a specific spot and not counting it is a poor attempt at circumventing some American anti-pooning laws.

Most of us have been in a situation where we have performed some task for less than the stated hourly fee. Whether you are a professional or tradesman. Finishing a task for no extra or a merchant may give a little sample for the next time you shop. This is just good business and I don't think this is the issue.

The issue here is deceit/fraud or theft. The brown was in her legal possession and then stolen from her. At least that is how I see it. Maybe next time Saffire, you should count the money and put it safely away.
 

Licker

Member
May 22, 2003
124
4
18
Burnaby
Saffire:

I think you should have put the money out of sight after you counted it. Not doing so provided the opportunity and the temptation. I do not mind discreet counting of bills when I see a new SP the first few times. After that I think I have established some trust, but the fee should be passed up front to avoid forgetting about the transaction.

I have a question about a similar situation. After the session when a new SP asks me if I would like a shower what should I do with my pants/wallet? Is there a discrete way to take them with me without saying I don't trust her? Some SPs say: don't forget to take your clothes to the bath, suggesting they do not want to be accused of anything.

If we have gone overtime, I generally top up the donation. On the other hand, I sort of expect to get some extra time when I am a regular and we are both enjoying the visit, especially if we are visiting during her slower hours. I would like to be gently told if there is a need to wrap things up, without undermining the GFE fantasy. Or be told that more time is available, but for a fee.

I assume you will not see the rip-off cad again. His loss.
 
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