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Clciked on one of Tants links which made me wonder....

What-evil-anti-sex-society-is-killing-these-girls

I remember when this story broke.

Some teenage girls are even capable of running a whole prostitution ring! http://metronews.ca/news/canada/624...cused-of-running-an-ottawa-prostitution-ring/
So my question is: If these girls are being "forced" why do clients continue going? I mean if you were "forced" into work it would be apparent if she was not having a good time. Is it a turn-on for some guys?

What would you do if you thought the girl went to see was being "forced" to work? Would you anonymously contact the police? Think it is NOYB? ? Because for a young girl to be involved in something like that will cause mental damage for (quite possibly) the rest of her life.

Sorry if this has been discussed here before, but I have only been on Perb less than a year.

Thanks!
 
I think most big cities have organizations where you can make an anonymous report if you suspect someone is in a bad situation. Maybe we could post a list of organizations based in Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Kelowna, Victoria, Winnipeg, etc. so guys will know what to do, along with a list of warning signs that might indicate a girl needs help.
That is a great idea Ms.Sarah
 

PlayfulAlex

Still Playing...
Jan 18, 2010
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You're assuming the "client" actually gives a shit?

I don't think you will get any replies from men who would visit young girls in this type of situation, for what should be, obvious reasons.

There are enough 411's and threads about non English speaking girls here on PERB to answer your questions.

If you read between the lines.

You may have been here less than year but you've been on the planet a while and have a lot of dealings with men. Does much surprise you?
Not much surprises me, sadly... :(

http://www.amazon.com/Children-The-Game-Ross-MacInnes/dp/0968438601
 

NataliaBijoux

Member
Jan 23, 2013
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16
West End
Media reports claim that Vancouver has about 500 street prostitutes under the age of 17, while some have claimed that many more children may be involved in indoor prostitution.[51] However such numbers should be treated with extreme caution (see above). Approximately 50% to 80% of the child sex trade in British Columbia is carried on in massage parlours, karaoke bars, and “trick pads”; only 20% to 50% of the trade is visible above ground with children being openly solicited on the streets. In smaller BC communities, the sexual exploitation of children is even less visible. It occurs in private homes, back alleys, and parks, at public docks and truck stops, and on fishing boats.[52][53] Some adolescents in care had advertised sex for sale on Craigslist when the erotic services category was still available. Craigslist removed this category on December 18, 2010.
 
You're assuming the "client" actually gives a shit?

I don't think you will get any replies from men who would visit young girls in this type of situation, for what should be, obvious reasons.

There are enough 411's and threads about non English speaking girls here on PERB to answer your questions.

If you read between the lines.

You may have been here less than year but you've been on the planet a while and have a lot of dealings with men. Does much surprise you?
Okay, you are saying there is a market of men out there who want to be with a girl whose attitude is -10. would you not rather see a provider that had a +10 attitude? I guess where my confusion lays is,well, I guess I do not understand the motives of this type of individual. I think the term for it is "paid rape".

That was a sad dose of reality.
 

yazoo

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Dec 10, 2011
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I still think that it is a good idea to post the resources available. No you can't expect criminals to report a crime. But non-criminals will if they know how... And I imagine crimestoppers would be a place to start.

It reminds me of a Korean SP I visited last year - a real joker.

We got out of the shower, me all stiff from my shower bj, and she looks at me with a plaintive expression and says "Heyop me"

"Help you", I said. "What do you need?"

Here eyes got even bigger, she clutched my arm and she just said "Please, Please, Heyop me"

I'm thinking - oh crap, what am in caught up in, - is she trafficked, what's going on here - who do I call...

"OK, I said, what do you need"

And she smiled and hung her wet towel on my stiff dick. "Strong man" she said as she left.
 

susi

Sassy Strumpette
Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2008
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@the Meat Market!!!lol
Media reports claim that Vancouver has about 500 street prostitutes under the age of 17, while some have claimed that many more children may be involved in indoor prostitution.[51] However such numbers should be treated with extreme caution (see above). Approximately 50% to 80% of the child sex trade in British Columbia is carried on in massage parlours, karaoke bars, and “trick pads”; only 20% to 50% of the trade is visible above ground with children being openly solicited on the streets. In smaller BC communities, the sexual exploitation of children is even less visible. It occurs in private homes, back alleys, and parks, at public docks and truck stops, and on fishing boats.[52][53] Some adolescents in care had advertised sex for sale on Craigslist when the erotic services category was still available. Craigslist removed this category on December 18, 2010.
there are only 400 sex workers on street total in vancouver. there are not 500 youth working on street. try to remember media are biased and often twist numbers to suit their own position on sex work. i have never seen these numbers before, can you tell me where you found them? they seem way off base...

also, there is no way anyone could know where exploitation is happening or could have definite numbers such as these percentages as cited. they are assuming that all business owners are bad or something and that every massage parlour or incall has an exploited worker in it....

yes, youth do get exploited but it does not happen near as much as the feminazi's would have us believe.

not trying to debate you, just saying that accurate information is extremely import in this regard. false numbers are the reason for harms against workers all over the planet. they enable police violence and criminalization of our community. saying that one trafficking victim is too many is noble but when that idea beomes policies that treat consentual adult workers as reasonable casulaties in the war on human trafficking, it helping no one. false numbers create the environment which allows exploitation to occur.

sex consumers who do witness human trafficking or exploitation can report it anonymously through crime stoppers or could contact lynda malcom, sex industry liaison officer and report confidentialy.

i have had pooners report exploitation to me as well. i then report on their behalf.

in the end, it is illegal in canada to not report exploitation of a child. i feel that for the most part the men do care about whether the sex worker they are seeing is there by choice. i feel this way because of the reports i have received.

love susie

ps- i don't think reporting exploitation to sex worker organizations is the way to go. PACE for example only have 2 staff members and do not have the capacity to rescue or investigate anyone.

people should anonymously report to crime stoppers, sex worker org's are not the way. or maybe report to sex worker orgs so other workers can be warned of bad business owners..... also, its dangerous to engage trafiickers/pimps. its important for people to not intereven and let the police do their jobs in this regard....

sorry, one last addition re craigslist erotic services section removal.

i remember when this happened. many workers were forced onto the street as a result of this and within 6 weeks a young woman, who was "new to the street" according to on street workers at the time, was found murdered in burnaby lake park.

a direct result of no longer being able to work indoors safely after action was taken to "protect children".

it is illegal under the international charter of human rights to place the rights of one group as secondary to the rights of another group.
 
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There are some folks with real dark fantasies & urges that would really seek out the situation described. Basically Tops with minimal moral compass.


Me? The Little Guy loses all interest if the lady shows any sign of not being enthusiastic or of being under the influence.
Hopefully, then you are the majority!

Do a little research online and I am positive you can find all the info you require on why some men would do this.

But posting the question on PERB and expecting someone to pop in and give you first hand knowledge\reasons seems ... naive.
Perhaps I was just interested in seeing what others thought.

in the end, it is illegal in canada to not report exploitation of a child. i feel that for the most part the men do care about whether the sex worker they are seeing is there by choice. i feel this way because of the reports i have received.

love susie

ps- i don't think reporting exploitation to sex worker organizations is the way to go. PACE for example only have 2 staff members and do not have the capacity to rescue or investigate anyone.

people should anonymously report to crime stoppers, sex worker org's are not the way. also, its dangerous to engage trafiickers/pimps. its important for people to not intereven and let the police do their jobs in this regard....
That's right here in our first world country, we should NOT allow things like this to happen. In any country for that matter. It is paid rape and it is wrong.

Thanks, Ms. Sarah for doing that research and keeping everyone on topic. Much appreciated!
 

NataliaBijoux

Member
Jan 23, 2013
333
0
16
West End
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Canada
I have seen these statistics on other pages as well. :confused:


there are only 400 sex workers on street total in vancouver. there are not 500 youth working on street. try to remember media are biased and often twist numbers to suit their own position on sex work. i have never seen these numbers before, can you tell me where you found them? they seem way off base...

also, there is no way anyone could know where exploitation is happening or could have definite numbers such as these percentages as cited. they are assuming that all business owners are bad or something and that every massage parlour or incall has an exploited worker in it....

yes, youth do get exploited but it does not happen near as much as the feminazi's would have us believe.

not trying to debate you, just saying that accurate information is extremely import in this regard. false numbers are the reason for harms against workers all over the planet. they enable police violence and criminalization of our community. saying that one trafficking victim is too many is noble but when that idea beomes policies that treat consentual adult workers as reasonable casulaties in the war on human trafficking, it helping no one. false numbers create the environment which allows exploitation to occur.

sex consumers who do witness human trafficking or exploitation can report it anonymously through crime stoppers or could contact lynda malcom, sex industry liaison officer and report confidentialy.

i have had pooners report exploitation to me as well. i then report on their behalf.

in the end, it is illegal in canada to not report exploitation of a child. i feel that for the most part the men do care about whether the sex worker they are seeing is there by choice. i feel this way because of the reports i have received.

love susie

ps- i don't think reporting exploitation to sex worker organizations is the way to go. PACE for example only have 2 staff members and do not have the capacity to rescue or investigate anyone.

people should anonymously report to crime stoppers, sex worker org's are not the way. or maybe report to sex worker orgs so other workers can be warned of bad business owners..... also, its dangerous to engage trafiickers/pimps. its important for people to not intereven and let the police do their jobs in this regard....

sorry, one last addition re craigslist erotic services section removal.

i remember when this happened. many workers were forced onto the street as a result of this and within 6 weeks a young woman, who was "new to the street" according to on street workers at the time, was found murdered in burnaby lake park.

a direct result of no longer being able to work indoors safely after action was taken to "protect children".

it is illegal under the international charter of human rights to place the rights of one group as secondary to the rights of another group.
 

Tugela

New member
Oct 26, 2010
1,913
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Okay, you are saying there is a market of men out there who want to be with a girl whose attitude is -10. would you not rather see a provider that had a +10 attitude? I guess where my confusion lays is,well, I guess I do not understand the motives of this type of individual. I think the term for it is "paid rape".
I think most of those cases happen at the low end of the market, where clients want to pay the least possible so they can do it more. They are not going to do anything to compromise that, so they turn a blind eye to abuses that might be evident, such as minors or obviously trafficked girls. Their objective is ready access to cheap sex and they will vigorously defend against anything that might compromise that.

You also need to keep in mind that any client who is willingly going to have paid sex with someone who is obviously a minor is someone who doesn't give a shit about the girl or specifically wants that sort of thing, so they are very unlikely to complain to the authorities.
 

*emmanuelle

Victoria, B.C.
Aug 1, 2008
818
19
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Most cases ... they turn a blind eye to abuses that might be evident, such as minors. Their objective is ready access to cheap sex and they will vigorously defend against anything that might compromise that.

You also need to keep in mind that any client who is willingly going to have paid sex with someone who is obviously a minor is someone who doesn't give a shit about the girl or specifically wants that sort of thing, so they are very unlikely to complain to the authorities.
I never wanted to believe that, but a quick look through the Victoria 411 section seems to suggest you're right.

Recently, somebody made this statement about a new girl:

According to previous threads, she's under age
And people followed up with these comments:

"Damn, that booty looks mighty fine"

"she is hot. Menu? BBBJ?"

" She looks smoking hot. Maybe I should TOFTT? Sure doesn't look like it would be a hardship!"

"$160 half hour. Great cob. Nice ass. Tight. Will go back"
I don't know this girl, and I'm certainly NOT saying that she's underage or working against her will or anything like that. It's just hearsay. My point is that people clearly don't seem to give a shit that she might be. There was not one comment that said anything along the lines of "oh gee, I guess I shouldn't see her!" or "wait a sec, that's statutory rape!". All of the comments were about her ass, her rates, whether she allowed CIM or not. Super classy, guys!!
 

*emmanuelle

Victoria, B.C.
Aug 1, 2008
818
19
18
And then there's this charming post from the Lounge:

"This was the place i wanted to go to. But it turns out it has been closed since 2009 and the owners are wanted by Interpol for sex trafficing and white slavery

I always thought some were not there of their own free will

Pity, it sounded like a blast"
Wait, what? So you thought the girls were trafficked, but you wanted to go there???
 
Hey all, just came across this word and i think it is helping me better understand the types of men who seek out women who are being `forced`to work

Alexithymia (pron.: /ˌeɪlɛksəˈθaɪmiə/) is a personality construct characterized by the sub-clinical inability to identify and describe emotions in the self.[1] The core characteristics of alexithymia are marked dysfunction in emotional awareness, social attachment, and interpersonal relating.[2] Furthermore, individuals suffering from alexithymia also have difficulty in distinguishing and appreciating the emotions of others, which is thought to lead to unempathic and ineffective emotional responding.[2] Alexithymia is prevalent in approximately 10% of the general population and is known to be comorbid with a number of psychiatric conditions
 
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susi

Sassy Strumpette
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Jun 27, 2008
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@the Meat Market!!!lol
I agree that most men (and other women) would notice if they knew what to look for, and would care if they thought a SP was in danger. Having a commonly known, safe, confidential method of reporting it might encourage more people to intervene.
crime stoppers is confidential, completely anonymous. i would encourage anyone who feels they may have witnessed exploitation of any person, especially a worker of questionable age, to report it safely and confidentially through crime stoppers.

support servies for sex workers does not include confronting a potentially dangerous pimp or trafficker. here's a story to put it into context;

my friend was working as a bouncer in an exotic show lounge and my other friend the waitress. a dancer was working VIP and sort of working the guys in the bar. this guy comes into the club and starts full out man punching her in the face and dragging her out by the hair.

they didn't know what to do, the bouncer- a huge samoan - intervened and tried to stop him from hurting her at which point she freaked out and hit the bouncer with a pint glass across the face. ( its a normal reaction for people to protect their abusers) by the time police arrived, the bouncer was the one being charged!!

they called me and i reported to my cohorts in the bccec. we created a safety planning tool for workers trying to escape exploitation. it is a complex process to leave safely and is no small task. our tool was distributed to 200 hundred victims services agencies across BC.

no one with out adequeate training should attempt to rescue some one from exploitation.

that said, there are very few specialized services in bc and we are working on it. in vancouver/ the lower mainland there are not enough beds to accomodate every woman or girl who needs help. also, young girls like 11 to 13, yes i have met workers that young, are TOO Young to get a bed. they are placed i foster care where people do all kinds of terrible things to them.

i guess i am saying, the supports you are looking for do not exist, there are many barriers to receiving support in the first place and that this is why people fall through the cracks.

the police love to hoist sister watch as the be all end all and it did work well for workers on street. that said, in a recent experience trying to help a kidnapped worker, police took 7 hrs to respond and the officer who attended mocked the program. he said " sister watch! no one really does that!"...he clearly had no idea who i was and went on an anti prostitution rant mentioning his daughters repeatedly. he also told me that he had been dreading coming to the call as sex workers were always difficult to deal with.

no, crime stopers are not trained to deal with sex workers. the police have only in recent years done any sort of sensitivity training. ecom are also not trained to deal with sex workers, nor are nurses, doctors, social services, MCFD...

we are engaged in system wide reform. the missing women's commission recommendations include alot of the things we need provincially and in a criminal justice sense. there are other reforms necessary for example, business by-law revisions to allow a more open industry here. we are doing that work currently on the city wide task force. the missing women's commission recommendations implementation is on hold in lieu of the provincial election.

all that said, if you are interested in trying to address some of these issues, there's no need to reinvent the wheel. i am happy to share all of our work and strategies for bringing police, city staff, etc to the table and the ways we are changing things here in vancouver. there's a great support serivce in abbottsford called the warm zone- or at least there used to be...things have been pretty thin under the liberals....maybe you could engage with workers there? or have a gathering at your place?

i have been working in social justice for 10 years and can tell you its rewarding but really draining also. hearing all of the stories of violence and other things workers express, is soul taxing. i am happy to do it and wouldn't change a thing but am definitly feeling the weight of it all. for example, when we incorporated canada's first sex worker cooperative in 2008, there were 10 members of the development team. the team changed from meeting to meeting as people's health permitted etc. but out of those people, 6 are dead. i tried for 2 1/2 years to get funding from the federal government to no avail to develop the safe work site...i feel like i failed.

we have made leaps and bounds here working ethical submissable data in research that was run completely by sex workers, but i still feel like it was not enough. i don't drive so i've only been to abbotsford a few times. mostly to lecture at fraser valley university but 2 times during the trade secrets- www.tradesecretsguide.blogspot.com consultations. we went to the warm zone and had amazing converstaions with workers there.

anyway, the questions you ask make perfect sense and i was also completely shocked to discover the second class citizen treatment that sex workers endure. rest assured though, we are at the table in BC, we are influencing policy and change, we will close the gaps that allowed so many to be harmed.

it doen't seem to come fast enough, but it is slowly coming around...it didn't help that crispy crunch, our premier, porogues the legislature for so long. all provincial funding frozen....hopefull that will change after the election.

love susie
 

susi

Sassy Strumpette
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Jun 27, 2008
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@the Meat Market!!!lol
yes, i am supposed to go and meet the workers from montreal, ottawa and toronto...there may even be a vancouver contingent going...i gave evidence and testified in the case and BCCEC research was considered in the original case so i wanted to go celebrate with everyone who worked on it....i simply can't afford the plane ticket...another problem with doing social justice work. it doesn't pay and takes me away from my sp work so costs me money....

its probably not over either....so frustrating waiting and waiting....i think it was 2006 i testified....

love susie
 

PlayfulAlex

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yes, i am supposed to go and meet the workers from montreal, ottawa and toronto...there may even be a vancouver contingent going...i gave evidence and testified in the case and BCCEC research was considered in the original case so i wanted to go celebrate with everyone who worked on it....i simply can't afford the plane ticket...another problem with doing social justice work. it doesn't pay and takes me away from my sp work so costs me money....

its probably not over either....so frustrating waiting and waiting....i think it was 2006 i testified....

love susie
Are there fund-raising opportunities in the city? To support your public (BCCEC) and private work, and the costs for airfare and accommodation when travelling to our sister cities? I'd like to contribute...
 
Are there fund-raising opportunities in the city? To support your public (BCCEC) and private work, and the costs for airfare and accommodation when travelling to our sister cities? I'd like to contribute...
Absolutely...fantastic idea. I am a sucker for a good cause I will happily donate.

(and if anyone has any Girl Guide cookies I will take those too!!):p
 

susi

Sassy Strumpette
Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2008
1,496
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@the Meat Market!!!lol
Are there fund-raising opportunities in the city? To support your public (BCCEC) and private work, and the costs for airfare and accommodation when travelling to our sister cities? I'd like to contribute...
umm, if people want they can contribute through the www.wccsip.ca .....there's a paypal link there....

that would be really cool if i could go to ottawa for the decision.... thanks for the offer alex, its nice to know people appreciate what i do.

love susie
 
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